DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum What If?

1. If Watson wins the starting job and earned it then he deserves to be the starter. If your on the 53 then best player plays.

2. If Watson starts the season and things go bad then Sanders will again get a shot. If Watson and the team play well then Sanders needs to learn how to be #2.

3. If Watson plays good enough for an extension, then yes.

4. He would clearly be the #2 QB on the roster and if Watson and the team does well they will not be in position to draft another QB so if Sanders continues to develop and does not cause drama he can be #2. Injuries happen how long he stay #2 or when he gets another chance to start that will depend on his performance at that time.

5. If the team is bad and out of the running by the trade deadline I think Garrett will go for a ransom that the FO will use to acquire a new QB in next years draft.

That's simply too much to wade through. So I'll keep this short.

First this is a contract year for DW. His future depends on playing well. The gravy train won't be flowing to his door next year if he doesn't play well this season. If after flopping around like a fish washed up on the beach for four years he plays lights out this season, it will only confirm to me that he is who I thought he was.

Secondly, DW never wanted to be here. He had a no trade clause and took the Browns off the list if teams he was willing to be traded to until Haslam backed up the Brinks truck. He came here just for the cash to a destination he didn't want to be in you can bet your ass he's looking to get away from here now.

There are 31 other teams in the league. None of this is as simple as the Browns just giving DW an extension.

I agree on all your points, but I do think that just because 1 happens doesn't necessarily mean that 3 will happen. I think the likelihood of 1 happening is FAR higher than 3.

1. Watson would have to be pretty bad to not beat out Shedeur.

2. We may try to trade Shedeur depending upon what we see from the new kid. We still have that other guy from Oregon, too, don't we?

3. Berry (or was it Haslam?) has already stated publicly that nothing says this can't happen.

4. This all depends on what Shedeur shows relative to all the others, and if we can find a buyer.

5. If Myles was leaving, it would have happened in the last year. I think he is here for the long haul, now.

No matter how well DW plays I would part ways with him at the end of the season. I want us to develop a young QB and make him our starter for many years be it Shedeur, Green, Gabriel or a guy we draft in 2027, most likely scenario. We aren't known for developing QB's, but I feel with Monken we have a better chance than what we've had here before. Just cut the ties with DW and move on.

If Watson wins the starting spot, play him. He has been paid very well and is on the roster. If he is the best on the roster, make him earn some of the money he got. Shaduer would be the back=up, and Green can be #3. Sanders sitting and learning for another year would be beneficial to all. I don't think there is any scenario where Watson is resigned.

The most likely scenario is of course DW winning the job. It’s no secret I have no real faith in Sanders. There is a very decent shot that DW plays well. As mentioned, it’s a contract year and he has a lot more talent around him. This is a team that’s a little more than a QB away. If not this year, next. That assumes our revamped OL is middle of the pack and our WR’s and TE’s are indeed significantly upgraded.

So let’s say he plays well. Like top 10. Then we’re likely going to the playoffs and who knows what from there. (Yea I said what I said).

And then of course we’re looking at extending in that scenario. We’d just have to. A good QB is just too valuable. An hilariously awful situation to be sure. And… there’s a solid chance we offer him a deal and he walks anyway. In fact, I would almost guarantee he leaves if he has other legit starter options. Even if it means making less. I don’t even think it’d be about the Browns really, it’s about escaping his past, about leaving the last 5 years far behind, getting away from the stink. So wouldn’t that just be the cherry on top. It’s also no secret that I really have no love for DW. It will always be hard to root for him. So if he plays great AND he sticks around, it’s gonna be… interesting.

Sanders is never going to be a viable long term starter. I’m willing to put money on that. So.. assuming DW moseys we’re back to next years draft. And a late pick. So moving miles becomes a very real possibility in that scenario. In fact, after this years draft, that was my first thought about next years draft. It’s pretty much the only pocket ace we have left to get up high. If we’re where I think we’ll be, next year it’s going to be critical to solve for the QB. That’s when this whole thing comes together or falls apart.

J/C

If Watson wins out, you play him.

I really like Myles Garrett, but if it is the only avenue to getting the QB the Browns desire, then I have to look at historical perspective.

The top pass rushers in NFL History:
Bruce Smith, 19 years, 0 Super Bowl wins
Reggie White, 16 years, 1 Super Bowl win with Brett Favre as QB in 1997
Lawrence Taylor, 13 years, 2 Super Bowl wins with Phil Sims QB for both in 1987 and 1991
Deacon Jones, 14 years, 0 Super Bowl wins
Demarcus Ware, 12 years, 1 Super Bowl win and Vonn Miller (See below) were on the same Super Bowl winning team with Peyton Manning in 2016
Vonn Miller, 15 years, 2 Super Bowl wins, the second was 2022 with Matthew Stafford as his QB AND Aaron Donald.
Aaron Donald, 10 years, 1 Super Bowl win, with Matthew Stafford as his QB in 2022.
Julius Peppers, 17 years, 0 Super Bowl wins
Michael Strahan, 15 years, 1 Super Bowl win, Eli Manning as his QB in 2007, the last year of his career.
Kevin Greene 15 years, 0 Super Bowl wins
Chris Doleman, 15 years, 0 Super Bowl wins
Jason Taylor, 15 years, 0 Super Bowl wins
JJ Watt, 12 years, 0 Super Bowl wins

Arguably the 14 best pass rushers in the history of the league and they have 8 SB wins between them, 2 of which came in the same game and also (2) each from two players. They split these 8 wins among 5 indisputable franchise QBs (2 with Stafford). No pass rusher from this list has a Super Bowl win without a franchise QB. Half of the list has zero Super Bowl wins.

My point is, Myles Garrett is the other guy on this list above, he has 9 years under his belt and zero Super Bowls and zero franchise QBs that he has played with.


Now, we could do the same exercise with the top 10 QBs in history

Tom Brady, 23 years, 7 Super Bowl wins
Joe Montana, 15 years, 4 Super Bowl wins
Peyton Manning, 17 years, 2 Super Bowl wins
Johnny Unitas, 17 years, 1 Championship and 1 Super Bowl wins
Drew Brees, 20 years, 1 Super Bowl win
Dan Marino, 17 years, 0 Super Bowl wins
Roger Staubach, 11 years, 2 Super Bowl wins
John Elway, 19 years, 2 Super Bowl wins
Aaron Rodgers, 21 years, 1 Super Bowl win
Brett Favre, 20 years, 1 Super Bowl win

So, the top 10 QBs have won 21 Super Bowls and another NFL Championship game...Only one, Dan Marino, doesn't have a SB win. I could keep going, the rest of the top 25 QBs of all time, all but 2-3 have Super Bowl or Championship wins. MOST of the top QBs have won a championship.

I would have to give the nod to franchise QB being the most important position to find in the NFL. That being said, being a franchise QB doesn't guarantee a Super Bowl either... Eli and Phil both have (2) Super Bowl wins, but they aren't in the HOF. Teams can do half the work as well..., but you almost always need to have a better than average guy behind center to have a fighting chance.

IF they deem a QB worthy of that projection, I would have to say, they need to do whatever necessary to get that guy. If that means trading Myles Garrett to do it, then so be it.

Now, if the top team in the draft is unwilling to trade and takes that QB, don't just trade Garrett for the sake of drafting a QB. At some point, they might need to make another leap of faith like they did with Watson. I just hope they look at more than ONE YEAR of stats when choosing whether or not that player is worth a trade. It was definitely the person that made that trade fail, not the ability that he showed on film for one season.

What Ifs, they are never ending. What if Jesus comes tomorrow, NFL won't matter. I hope we never trade Miles Garrett, he's been a Super Brown, except for his driving.

Again, what if Watson lights it up with our new coach and offensive receivers. What if our new O line opens holes enough so our running backs run well and they protect the QB enough to new O weapons....we could make the playoffs, who knows......Go Browns!!!!

Super Bowl 50, I think, is the counter argument.

Von Miller was the MVP. Yes, technically Peyton Manning was the Super Bowl winning QB, but he wasn't height of his powers Peyton Manning at that point.

It's also kind of interesting how many top QBs only have one Super Bowl win. Elway kind of rode Terrell Davis and defense to one of his.

Brady is more the exception than the rule. And he's the one that went in the 6th round.

I think having a good enough QB with a great team around him is a more realistic Super Bowl path than making the team worse for the chance to potentially have a (maybe) great QB.

Obviously there is value in the QB, but I think Myles' value to the entire defense is somewhat being overlooked. Without Myles, I don't think our defense works. Putting a rookie in a shootout every week is not necessarily a recipe for success.

I'd be focused on other avenues than Myles, if possible. Like only last resort, every stone turned over, and he demands out.

Is Brady the best of all time because he's Brady, or was Brady the best off all time because he was on good teams because he didn't maximize his contracts? Would Brady have been Brady on the Hue Jackson era Browns?

Yes he would. Marcia Brady

I don't think Tom Brady or Peyton Manning are in this draft... Though, no one really knew Peyton Manning was going to be Peyton Manning when he was taken #1 overall and obviously NO ONE knew Tom Brady was going to be the GOAT.

I think you are missing my point though. It just points out the overall importance of position strength vs success. A team can win with a franchise QB and second tier defensive players. The Browns have proven time and again, they can't win with future HOF defensive players and the lack of a franchise QB.

This draft has the potential to have a couple of Drake Maye/Justin Herbert QBs and then a few Baker Mayfield/ Sam Darnold guys, maybe a poor man's Lamar Jackson in John Mateer, but that's a real stretch. The closest guy to Lamar right now is currently 4th string on the Browns depth chart. THAT is the goal we are shooting for here, not Tom Brady.

Your Drake Maye capable type guys are:

Arch Manning, Top prospect, with a lot of high expectations tatoo'd on his Manning size forehead.
Dante Moore, Speak on him below
Jayden Maiava, one of my favorite's to watch prospects. Speak on him below.

Your Baker Mayfield capable type guys are:
Julian Sayin, speak on im below
John Mateer, Like Sayin, he is on the small side. BUT, he can get out of a lot of bad situations with his footwork.
Rocco Becht, Highly productive player at TCU that transferred to Penn State for the exposure. We will see if it pays off. He is undersized though.
LaNorris Sellers, Needs to take the big leap everyone expected in 2025
Darian Mensah, transferring from Duke to Miami will give him the high profile test we all need to see. IF that production transfers to Miami and he leads them deep into the playoff, he will catapult himself into top 5 contention and might come out this year. If he doesn't, he has another year of eligibility and will probably go back to improve his draft stock.

Then there are a bunch of guys we really want to see how they progress in 2027 like:
Nico Iamaleave
Avery Johnson
DJ Lagway
Sam Leavitt
CJ Carr
Drew Mestemaker
Drake Lindsey
Gunner Stockton
Josh Hoover
This last tier has question marks all over the place.. One year starters, transfers, not showing progress like expected in 2025, etc.


Currently my top prospects are:
Arch Manning, He is at the top of the production food chain at yards per game and TDs per game. However, his accuracy in terms of completion percentage is way off the mark. He must improve... if he does, he is the #1 overall draft pick

Julian Sayin, He is right behind Manning in production, but has done it with fewer passes and much higher accuracy. I'm not crazy about is size. Size has become more important to me over the years. If he doesn't hit 6'1", I don't think I am as interested any more.

Jayden Maiava, He actually checks most of my boxes, but he has made some really poor decisions. If he cleans that part of his game up, he might go top 5.

Dante Moore, the consensus #1/#2, he is extremely consistent. He should step in to a role at the next level and give you 12-16 rankings every year. I just haven't seen a guy that is going to crack into the top tier level. He is very good though and will make a long term starter where ever he goes.

I'm going to throw in Darian Mensah. He could be the surprise of the 2027 season..


Then the two that have me the most intrigued are CJ Carr and Drew Mestemaker. Both young, RS Sophomore's. Both could end up being in the running for the top QB in the NCAA in 2027, but still stay in school for another year to improve draft position.

It's going to be a fun college season. We have a lot of players to study during the season based on what our projected needs are.

I think another What if question to ask is what if Deshaun Watson throw's for >4,000 yards and the defense remain around a top 5 defense. Then what is this team's ceiling?

Playoff wins... That's what Watson was brought here for. He just never cared enough to be that guy. He was de-incentivized with the guaranteed contract. Well, now he is re-incentivized with it being a contract year. It could happen, if Monken lets it.

This could be a very special season if Watson plays up to potential. That is great and I look forward to having fun watching a team that wins. As soon as the season is over, reality sets in and we will then need to figure out who the QB for the next 3-10 years will be, because Watson will get a contract somewhere else and be gone from Cleveland. He might not even stop to clean his locker out. The man has zero loyalty to anyone other than Deshaun Watson. I pity his wife. I'm sure she loves money and is happy with what ever choices he makes, otherwise she wouldn't be with him...train's going off the rails here.. He will not be in a Browns uniform to start the 2027 season.

But, it will be a fun year, if the Browns are winning. I would take that over a tank year for a QB coming out in the 2027 draft.

I don't know enough to debate you about the QB's that will be entering the draft next season but I am a big OSU fan. The only thing I try to keep in mind is that Sayin was a red shirt freshman. I think he performed extremely well considering that fact. This upcoming season will go a long way in telling me at least what that kid may have moving forward. He certainly looked promising but as first year starter where he goes from there is a mystery. But hey, a lot of these kids are young and will continue to develop. Where they go from where they are is something way over my pay grade. I guess that's why NFL GM's make the big bucks and I don't.