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One ting I think people should take notice of is the depth chart always changes during the process. From training camp through the pre-season and right up until opening day it's going to fluctuate. I don't think naming starters this early in the process has any actual meaning. But then Monkin is a first time NFL HC so there may be a bit of a learning curve here.

Honestly, I can't see the starter being anyone other than Watson. Shedeur's good days are in the ballpark of Watson's bad days (not his worst, but his average bad).

Apt way of comparison. Under pressure, we do what we practiced, easiest reaction is fastest. Improvements are suspect for SS who had a lot to correct.

In general, I won't disagree. The flip side is that I doubt we have a QB on the roster that can be more effective than him and they may be tempted by that.

On a side note, I remember making the case that even in his best years in Houston, he never really did all that much (despite his numbers). I've always felt he was more a product of his system and the insane WRs he always had (and the years he had a solid defense).

Bitonio announces retirement
https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/a-cleveland-brown-for-life

Thanks for the memories, Bitonio!

Enjoy retirement. Future Browns Ring of Honor member.

Great player and rep for the Browns. Enjoy your retirement Joel.

Yikes.

I love that little pause where Hall was like "wow, that really happened".

Lol, mid-season form!

Pat the ball, scan field for 7 seconds and then chuck it into a stationary object. Hilarious.

#WatsonSZN

Not an issue. Hall put his arm up and Shedeur hit it to show how accurate he is!

Current Vegas odds to start week 1:

Watson -194

Sanders +134

Milk, that was hilarious. You mention some stuff that I feel are knocks on SS as starter, good reasons these are. Maybe another day. Not in 2026.

I pegged Bond early last year as possible superstar. He passes that eye test. We could jump from weak to top 10 in the WR dept.

I completely forgot about Bond. Wasn't he one of those guys that was lighting it up last year and then disappeared due to injury almost immediately??

I don't know about "lighting it up immediately". He showed glimpses of his talent in every game he played, some of them jaw-dropping. He missed four games or so in the middle of the season with a foot injury (I think he was deemed "ready" but got an extra week to heal ahead of our bye week).

I remember thinking from the beginning that we're just not used to seeing WRs that wide open.

This was the dude signed as an UDFA. After the signing, it was rumored that we had been in contact with him for a while. He was considered a day 2 pick until sexual allegations surfaced right before the draft (later no-billed by a grand jury).


I'll let AI tell you the rest of what I've been seeing...


Isaiah Bond's profile as an NFL wide receiver is built around world-class athleticism and specific mechanical skills that allow him to stress defenses vertically.

His elite traits include:

🚀 World-Class Speed and Acceleration

True Track Speed: Bond boasts verifiable, elite speed, clocking a official 4.39-second 40-yard dash at the NFL Scouting Combine.

Instant Acceleration: He possesses rare "one-cut" acceleration, meaning he reaches top speed within his first three steps, allowing him to erase a defensive back’s cushion almost instantly.

Vertical Separation: His primary role is a field-stretcher; his speed forces safeties to play deep, opening up the intermediate passing game for his teammates.


📉 Sharp Route-Running Breaks

Hip Fluidity: Unlike many pure speed threats who run rounded routes, Bond can drop his hips and make sharp, 90-degree cuts without breaking his stride.

Stop-and-Start Ability: He uses his elite deceleration to snap off comeback and hitch routes, leaving cornerbacks coasting backward out of respect for his deep speed.


🏈 Elite Ball Tracking and Body Control

Deep-Ball Adjustments: He excels at tracking the football over his shoulder on deep posts and go-routes, adjusting his stride mid-flight to match the trajectory of the ball.

Sideline Awareness: Despite his smaller frame, he possesses great body control to keep his feet in bounds when making contested catches along the boundary.

He's fast AND quick without the stereotypical stone-hands that usually plague track-star WRs. He looked good but we just didn't have enough under center and upfront to utilize his talent.

I agree, talking heads want listeners and will say just about anything to get a response.

In this case, I wouldn't be surprised if the Browns would prefer 4 QBs in training camp given all the new bodies at receiver. I don't think they would be looking to trade anyone for a 5th round pick. Maybe after a preseason game or two when they make some roster decisions.

With Sorsby off the table, a team looking for a young project to groom over the next few years might be interested based on what they have seen so far. Think a team like the Eagles. If they aren't liking what they see out of Cole Payton, someone like Shedeur might be in play. If you were choosing a guy for your roster today, would you rather have Sanders or Andy Dalton? Dalton is their current backup if Payton doesn't look good in camp.

At the end of the day, I agree, you wouldn't trade him for a 5th. However, if Watson looks like your starter and Sanders doesn't show enough to even make you think for a second you might not have to draft a QB in 2027... well, then a 3rd rounder would start to entice you quite a bit. We have Watson/Sanders showdown, then Gabriel or Green backup.. removing Sanders removes the question on the back end as well. Gabriel would be the backup with Green the emergency 3rd QB.

It comes down to if Sanders looks has traits Monken believes to be franchise capable AND if a team is willing to over pay.

I view Rizzo and Mary Kay in the same light, as in they are connected to sources in town that provide decent information, but their opinions/takes are wildly horrible. That said, I can't stand Rizzo. MKC I can stand, just think she is a joke.

These front offices take calls all day, every day (hyperbole) regarding a host players so I won't dismiss that Sanders' name has come up. The question is (1) whether it was serious or not and (2) what is the value? My guess, based on how he played last year, the value is very low. I don't see a team trading for him based on any 2025 draft hype.

Ding! Ding! Ding! Nothing to see here, folks.

I doubt Shedeur is the one they would be trying to move. Along those lines, he'd probably get the most in a trade.

IMO, it's even less than a nothing-burger. If I had to guess, all of the QBs we currently have likely won't be in the league in the next 3 years.

They might be in the league, but I understand your point.

In the big picture I don't see any world where we don't draft a QB with our 1st pick next draft. When that happens, that guy is going to get all the development chances. Watson will be gone and Shedufus will be a distraction. That is why I hope we keep Gabriel around because he can become an effective back-up.

I understand Monken would play the QB that gives us the best chance of winning but I would like to see exactly what we have with SS. Most likely even if DW starts we’ll see SS in there at some point because of his being injury prone the last few years. I myself would like SS to start especially with the better players we have now.

We seem to tank naturally most seasons. We don’t even have to try! 😅

Right? If we tried to tank, we'd likely win 8 games.

Probably. 2 years ago I said to a friend I think my Browns are tanking. He responded How can you tell? He was right!!

The answer writes itself... Answer the following question: Who is the Browns Starting QB?... If there is no answer....

All you have to know is that a team that has no starting QB or a QB competition has no starting QB is tanking..

My personal thoughts on the QBs is that as bad as Watson is, he is still far and away the best QB we have. That said, we may let on that we feel Shedeur is winning the QB competition to drive up his outside perceived value.
I dislike Watson completely, never wanted him, was always against everything to do with him, but I would not be surprised in the least to see us trade Shedeur and roll with Watson.


I mean, in the end, I don't think we actually have a QB on the roster. Period. However, we have to roll with someone. Shedeur isn't a starting QB in this league unless he figures out how to fix a LOT of things with himself, so our best play with him is to turn the 5th rounder we spent on him into something better. Watson is here this year no matter what, and then likely gone. Unless he plays at a level he hasn't approached in nearly a decade, he's done here. IF he can somehow perform at his 2018-2020 level, he could get an extension (which would allow us to work some of the dead cap in what is currently set to be void years). Gabriel throws a LOT less INTs and has a marginally higher completion percentage, but he's a dink & dunker. Maybe that's on the OLine and the lack of WRs, maybe it was hyper-conservative playcalling, maybe it was him. Maybe it was all three. He was efficient and took care of the ball, though. Sanders gambled more, but threw a lot of up-for-grabs balls that shouldn't have ever been thrown. Some paid off, a lot did not. Gabriel had the higher YPA in college - by a full yard per attempt; that's a big difference. However, for some reason, he was 1.5 yards per attempt lower last year. I think it comes down to Gabriel had the sense to protect the ball where Sanders is just out there playing ball, but not really thinking. With a better OLine and WRs, we just might see Gabriel go back to having the better. Theoretically, Monken's style suits Gabriel's college traits perfectly and Monken's schematic history shares a lot with what Gabriel did in college: RPOs, QB autonomy, horizontal & vertical spacing.

I agree, I don't think we have our future QB on the roster right now either.

As far as Gabriel, I think Monken has a lefty bias. I've heard him make comments on a few occasions that made him sound annoyed that they have to do things two different ways because of Gabriel. I could be reading into it too much, but I don't think he is going to be here very long.

I will be surprised in the end if it isn't Sanders starting, with Watson the backup and Green the emergency QB. Unless Sanders is just god awful to the point that Watson is given the job out of not having another option.

I do believe there is merit in finding out what the best possible player on the team has when the 2027 off season could be one of the most important for this team in a very long time. I don't see a version that ends up with a Watson extension. Sure it could help the cap, but Watson doesn't care AT ALL about Cleveland's cap. He didn't want to be here in the first place and now his prison sentence is almost over. He gets parole when free agency opens. Instead of walking out with his belongings and a few hundred dollar check, he gets to gloat over his fat bank account for doing literally nothing for 5 years.

I think it all boils down to one question. Do they decide whether to go all in for this coming season by starting watson and focus on the short term? Or do they start Sanders to see what his potential is moving forward so they have a full view of the facts going into next years draft. I would prefer they see what they have in Sanders moving forward even though my faith in him is little to none rather than going into next years draft with that question still looming. But I get it either way.

I think Gariel's stats compare with those of Shedufus, and way fewer turnovers. I am not sure why he is looked at as the odd man out.

You are exactly right, that’s the question that needs answered. I think we are all going to find out in about two weeks. If Berry, through Monkens eyes, has decided Sanders doesn’t have what it takes to develop into a franchise guy, he is probably going to end this right now if there is a trade partner. It’s the only way for Watson to start without everyone saying it’s the wrong decision. With Sanders elsewhere it opens the door for Monken to start who he wants instead of who most of us want. It also closes the chapter on development in the current QB room and starts the process to find the next guy who is hopefully a better prospect for longevity in winning.



Bonefish, I agree with your points on Watson showing nothing to this point. He hasn’t had anything to play for in his first 4 years with the Browns. He didn’t want to be here, but his love of money outweighs his love of football, gamesmanship, team unity.. just about anything.

Watson has a next contract to play for in 2026, he finally had motivation to show teams outside of Cleveland what he can do to earn another payday. I don’t rule out his money motivation as a factor to returning to form.. and it just so happens Berry gave him weapons that can help him accomplish that.


Gabriel is who we think he is, a safe, boring QB that won’t lose you games, but he isn’t going to win you any either. Everyone has to be on point every week or you lose. Sanders is willing to take risks that Gabriel won’t. That’s his edge…but also his downfall because he just isn’t good enough to pull it off more times than not. That’s what franchise guys do, Sanders doesn’t seem like a franchise guy. Not because of what he didn’t do in 2025, that was a short stacked deck against him. He just doesn’t show enough on film to convince me he has all the tools. I actually think he has the heart, he’s won me over in that respect.

They have to decide what’s best for 2026 to try to win games, then focus on each week individually. They can worry about what’s next when the final whistle blows.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m rooting for the Sanders show. I’m secretly hoping Watson tears another ligament. I’d love to get more insurance from the cap from him.

I don't disagree. It just looks to me like he won't even make the team. I think Gabe has the make-up to be a solid backup in the NFL if not a starter. No matter how it works out with the starter, we will still need a back-up next season. I don't see Sanders as being a good backup. Sanders is either going to take hold and be the long term starter or he won't. Again, I just don't see the guy as being a solid backup to a new drafted rookie if we go that route..

Much has been made of DeShaun Watson and cap considerations, but there really is no benefit, financially, gained by keeping him on the roster this year. From what I have read, the Browns restructured his contract so that some $80 million is pushed to 2027 and 2028 as a bonus. (received whether on the roster, or not) If he doesn't truly earn the starting position in training camp, I can easily see the Browns cutting their loses and dropping him.

I too agree Gabriel is more likely the backup QB. Gabriel is head smart of the game. He is more of a benefit supporting the QB room with game prep and film analysis.

If you think about it, who would you rather have in the QB room helping a rookie QB Gabriel or Sanders?

The role of the backup QB is different than most people think. Well known backup QBs were Ryan Fitzpatrick, Charlie Batch, Chase Daniel, Gary Kubiak, and Frank Reich. I think Dillion Gabriel fits right in with this group.

We financially cannot absorb the cap hit of cutting him this year. He's here. All of that cap hit pushed to the future accelerates onto this year and next if we cut him (because even if we do it in August, it is a post-June 1 cut).

Of the two, between Gabriel and Sanders, I think just because of the hype around his name, Sanders brings the more attractive trade package. If nothing else, a rebuilding team could trade for him to put butts in the seats.

Sanders took more chances last year, and so he had the higher YPA. They had the same number of TDs, though, and Sanders had 5x the INTs with a terrible passer rating.
Sanders only had 10 more completions for 27 more attempts. Basically, Gabe's YPA absolutely sucked and it was straight up the OLine and WR. The reason that Shedeur had the better YPA is two things: he simply reverted to what he did behind that bad CU OLine and he took chances (offer terrible, panicked ones).

In college, the YPA metric was reversed, and because of that, I think there is a real chance that Gabriel outshines Shedeur this year.

I had a hunch and did some quick GoogleAI stat comparisons. It turns out I was wrong.

One of my takeaways from last year is that the offense looked completely impotent until Sanders took over. With DG and Flacco, the offense looked like it was stuck in the mud and just couldn't move the ball at all. I was hoping that some stat comparisons would help prove my point, but it turns out I was mostly wrong. I did not confirm these stats, so I apologize if my AI laziness is leading me astray.

Points/game
Sanders: 18.7
Flacco: 14.3
DG: 14.1

First downs/game
Sanders: 17.5
Flacco: 17
DG: 15

Judkins yards/game
Pretty much same lining up behind each of the 3 QBs

Not sure if 2 additional first downs per game is significant in terms of arguing whether one starter is more effective or not. One could argue that 4 additional points/game IS significant given how good our defense was (for the most part they kept games close).

So maybe the points/game is significant (given the whole point of the offense is to score), but I was expecting the stats to show that Sanders chucking the ball was having a measurable effect in opening things up for our various playmakers, and I didn't see that as much as I thought I would.

It may be significant, it may not be. It actually needs more data. Sanders had the same number of TDs as Gabriel, so any increase in PPG was added field goals, or even defensive scores, depending upon how PPG was calculated.
The first down could literally just be the OLine committing fewer drive killing penalties as the season went on. I'm not saying that is the difference, but it is a quick and simple example of how easily the numbers could be skewed to appear better.

Yes, I would agree the 4.4 pts per game is significant and is why Sanders was 3-4 in his starts, Flacco was 1-3 in his starts and Gabriel was 1-5 in his starts.

Was it enough? Or course not, but carry over the rookie season to his first veteran off season and all the added tools, that could change more drastic than I would think we would see with Gabriel. The mind set of each of them is very different. They both like to protect the ball, to a fault, but Shedeur is much more willing to push the ball up field, resulting in bigger plays. Only .5 first downs per game could have as much to do with plays over 15 yards reducing the number of chances at a first down.

If Gabriel drives 39 yards and punts, but gets 3 first downs on the drive, you don't have much to gain from the drive.
If Sanders drives 60 yards for a FG, but does it only making 2 first downs because one of the first downs went for 45 yards, then there is fruition in the drive.

Unfortunately, I saw a lot of drives from Gabriel stall near the 50 yard line. He doesn't have a killer instinct or take chances on 3rd and 8 or longer to extend drives. He is just as happy checking down on 3rd and 8 for a 3 yard gain as he is on 1st and 10 to get the same yards.. same play, one gets the drive started, the other ends the drive completely.

I agree there is a lot more nuance in how they arrived at those numbers than the raw numbers themselves. You gave just a few basic examples. I've heard people use terms like "aggressive"and "killer instinct" in regards to Sanders. But the results of that in terms of passing were 7td's and 10int's. So those are not terms I would use to describe him.

Killer Instinct definitely isn't a term I'd assign to him. More like "unnecessary risk taker that sometimes doesn't get bitten in the butt".

Part of the math is total games, but even that is wonky.

Sanders: played in 8, but started 7
Gabriel: played in 10, but started 6.

Adjusting their PPG to use only games started changes thing dramatically.
Gabriel: 17.7 points
Sanders: 16.7 points
Flacco: 14.0 points


First Downs per Game (starts only)
Gabriel: 16.2
Sanders: 15.9
Flacco: 15.0

That helps clarify things at least to a certain extent. But like you said, stats can still be murky. Combing stats in games played by multiple QB's certainly doesn't reflect the big picture.

Aw dangit... I thought I was only using starts (and not partial games). I guess that's what I get for just trusting the output I was getting.

That said, the reason I posted what I did instead of deleting it because the stats weren't saying what I thought they would is because my eye saw something (the offense seemed to move easier) that doesn't seem to be supported by any actual facts. I wasn't the only one who said this (that that offense seemed to move with him in there).

I just thought it was kind of interesting that even though the offense felt a little different with Sanders throwing, it really wasn't when you get down to it.

I think that it probably was, but it just didn't result in anything positive, instead frequently resulting in a turnover.

I agree with that. Poster who are fanboys of SS are eager to make him the starter with wishful thinking about his performance last season. They have written off Gabriel, conveniently ignoring his tougher opponents, crappy line play, and abominable receivers. SS had some decent stats with lousy play. Picks vs. TDs, taking sacks, were bad. One thing not mentioned is that the play caller changed and gave more opportunity than Gabe to SS. I believed that was part of the issue because Ski was relieved of his duties again. His offense flopped; I do apples to oranges here, and I believe SS could play better than he did and should have. We have exaggerated his "success" and much of the opining we are reading here seems to be wishful thinking from the fanboys. I hope Monken measures their performance with solid comparisons. I want part of that to involve the newest QB who intrigues me. I think we draft a QB next draft. Write Watson off.

One of my bigger concerns regarding SS is with so many of his fans claiming he improved as the season went along, I had trouble believing that. I remember those last 2 games (Pitt & Cincy) and thinking the offense was very weak.
Some O stats from those games, but focusing on QB stats

Pitt game; Offense had 262 net yards. 184 net yards passing 78 rushing only 3.1 per carry. 1 TD, 2 ints. Defense held the Steelers to 2 FGs Browns won 13-6

Bengals; Offense had exactly 200 yards of offense, 82 net yards passing. team 4.9 YPC rushing, SS fumble giving Bengals ball at Browns 29 leading to a Bengals TD. 0 passing TDs, 0 ints. Browns 2 TDs came on back-to-back series by the D. 90+ year int then a fumble return. These were the 2 plays that both drew unsportsmanlike flags. SS did have a 10 play 40 yard drive in 1:29 for the 49 yard FG for the win. Browns won 20-18

To me, both of those games were won more by the D, more than the O, although SS did direct a GW FG drive to end the game.

I hope Shedeur improves and that he can be the guy. Maybe a rebuilt O-line and more weapons will help.

The biggest problem with Gabriel is that he would not even think about pushing the ball downfield. That made him easier to defend.

Now he may not have a cannon, but you can’t win by throwing short every play.

and you can't throw long when you have NO time to throw. With our O-line last year we didn't get a REAL look at anybody, as nobody will succeed without blocking.

Gabriel is not an NFL QB. He is too small and does not possess and NFL caliber arm. He has a good mind for the game but nothing else. He will be cut before the season because it was brutally obvious to everyone that he simply is not an NFL caliber player.

3 wins 4 losses
That is on an7’win season.
Every other argument is world class weak.
The biggest problem on the Browns was Njoku and jeudy DRopping passes.
Funny how that is never brought up.

not for nothing, but he logged an eye-popping 74.9 mph pass during his Senior Bowl practices, so he's definitely got plenty for the short & intermediate; he just won't be throwing flat-footed 60 yard cruise missiles... .but, he threw tons of deep balls in college, so he isn't incapable.

Gabriel's "speed test" was not the normal process used for "velocity". This was a bit of a gated process NFL FO's have been using for a few years. It is measured with an RFID tracking chip in the ball (which also measures "spin"). This measures the apex speed at the exact millisecond it leaves the player's hand, before there is even any atmospheric drag.

Apparently, the NFL is planning to pull back the curtain on this process. The company, Zebra Technologies, has a contract with the Senior Bowl and that's where that info came from; although admittedly misrepresented by a total lack of context.

The previous record for velocity was Josh Allen (radar measured) at 62mph. While Gabriel has a very strong arm, the only way he's throwing with more velocity than Allen is if someone sets up a radar gun on the moon.

This (what GM said) and also some other things IMO. Oober, great pull of stats as this sparked some great conversation. I'll try to add my opinion tomorrow (sorry, I've had a few drinks haha).

Great news!

So, I am guessing that the current cap will be credited $47.287M for everything up to this point and the remaining will be credited in each subsequent season?

Overthecap is already disputing the report of the dollar amount and PFT has retracted/amended their x post, apparently.

Lesson learned-- Never trust Mike Florio.

Reposted

Browns- $22.24M

#CapHell
#KickingTheCan

I mean, they are #17 for cap space. I don't think that is cap hell considering they are paying a franchise QB salary, despite not really being a franchise QB. Even with his cap hits in 2027 and 2028, we have the money for a QB on a rookie wage cap. About the time it comes to pay that QB, we will be straight.

The cap is one thing I just don't worry about any more. Berry is on another level when it comes to managing the cap. That is thanks to Haslem's deep pockets.

#CapHell
#KickingTheCan

Are for one of our resident slide-rule savants who has been telling us the "hell" is right around the corner for years... because we constantly "kick the can". I believe his profile is actually a foot kicking a can.

I think we are coming out of cap hell. While it's impossible to say, I do wonder if we would've been more apt to spend on a short-term FA QB if we didn't have so much tied up in Watson. I'd like to think we would've spent more to shore up the Oline.

He wasn't the only one. Our other resident "I like to pick fights & twist people's words" was also routinely propping this nonsense up.

We were never in cap hell and aren't now.

I just think the options were extremely limited on the O-line. I do think it will end up being an improvement, but I'm hoping to get better in 2027.

Agree with that. We also have more new blood to work our way through and a season without great expectations. Berry didn't want to do anything foolish in front of that.

And Oober, you're right, in essence Watson is the short-term QB. Can't cut him and the room would be way to crowded if we signed anyone else. If we trade Gabriel or Sanders, that could be a possibility.

Given the Line play and the WR play, I'm not sure we have anything to compare., As an offense, we just weren't good and with those problems so evident, I'm not sure we know who's the best.....

When did you do that?