DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum What If?

The Baker Mayfield situation was totally mishandled by Dorsey by drafting him in the first place. When the "fiery" QB is hellbent on playing, and the training staff says he's healthy enough to play, he was going to play. Baker was never a good fit personality-wise with Stefanski. Baker was a do things his own way guy. When things are going well, it can be great. When they're not, it can be miserable. The chip on Baker's shoulder doesn't/didn't go away. Could it have been handled better? Probably. But I think people discount Baker's part in it too much. There was talent there, but the person seems to have been a big part of the problem. Handling Baker isn't/wasn't as simple as some people try to make it out to be.

...Stefanski was hired before Berry. It seems it would have been hard for Berry to have hired Stefanski with that being the case. Accountability is tough when dealing with huge-ego'd, entitled millionaires on fully guaranteed contracts (like Baker's rookie contract was.)

When QBs have injuries, other QBs by necessity end up having to play. It's not an allergy. Injuries happen. They'd love to have their starting QB stay healthy.

No one thinks anything is going to magically happen but imaginary inventions in lazy arguments. I hope Berry is still here. Hopefully, he's the best person to continue leading the Browns.

I'm more comfortable with the thought of Berry remaining GM than I am with the idea of someone else "magically" coming in to turn things around.

If we are going to go back with this discussion, it all started when Dwight Clark selected center Jim Pyne with the 1st pick in the expansion draft.

He wasn't talking to you. You can easily see at the right side of the header who a poster is responding to.

I agree, Watson starting AND winning poses another huge problem riding on the edge of a double edge sword.

A) If they fail to re-sign him, it shows their incompetence in managing contracts and players
B) If they do re-sign him and he reverts back to the player we have seen to date, it shows their incompetence in managing contracts and players

Watson starting and losing does nothing for the future of the team, unless it is predetermined that Shedeur Sanders has no chance of being a franchise QB. IF that is the case, they need to trade him for whatever they can get out of him by the trade deadline. THEN and ONLY then would a Watson playing and losing help the team in the possibility of drafting a QB. In the end, other teams won't want him either because his skills have diminished.

Losing is the only way to win in this scenario.

On the other hand, there isn't anyone in this organization or fanbase that would blame the team for not starting Watson after the history we have had with him. If it weren't for the ridiculous contract, he would have been gone long ago.



The only other scenario is Watson starting, winning, getting a contract and continuing to win... I just can't fathom that becoming a reality. He wants one more big pay day and what ever sucker gives it to him is going to get a player that doesn't care about his team, the fan base or the organization. He will simply collect more paychecks. He's a con-artist.



Time to see if Shedeur can show the kind of improvement to cause doubt in drafting a QB in 2027.

You can slice it and dice it any way you like mac, unless Haslam overrode Berry's decisions, Berry had the final say on who was drafted.

The Cleveland Browns hired head coach Kevin Stefanski first, officially announcing his appointment on January 13, 2020. They later hired Andrew Berry as their Executive Vice President of Football Operations and General Manager on January 28, 2020.

Who hired Stefanski again?

The BEST case scenario is Matthew Stafford not being able to play from game one. Historically, the Rams defense has hovered around 10th in the league when he is healthy and in the 20s when he isn't. An unhealthy Stafford could mean the Rams pick being close to the top 10, with a rookie behind the wheel.

As for the Browns, I would be much much more shocked at a Browns run at the playoffs than I would a top 10 draft pick. I hope I'm wrong, but there is a lot to overcome to be that competitive with a new coaching staff, completely new offensive line, rookie WRs and an unproven QB. It's almost insurmountable.

I’m not arguing against you, but my understanding is that Berry was at least involved in, or consulted on, the decision to hire Stefanski. It’s hard for me to believe that he would have accepted the GM position without having some input on one of the organization’s most important decisions.

Do you agree with that assessment?

I’m fully aware of the current organizational structure and who ultimately has final authority. My question is a little different: are people genuinely comfortable with the idea of giving Berry another five years to lead the football operation?

Could he succeed? Absolutely. Anything is possible in the NFL. But based on the track record we’ve seen so far, I’m not convinced he’s the person most likely to lead the Browns to sustained success.

There have simply been too many questionable decisions along the way for me to feel completely confident in his leadership. There have also been too many conflicts, controversies, and situations that have followed this front office for me to view him as the master strategist that many fans seem to believe he is.

That doesn’t mean I think he’s terrible or incapable. I just don’t see the level of success or evidence that would make me comfortable handing him another five-year runway without asking some tough questions.

I agree that he accepted the fact that Stenfanski had already been hired as the HC. I don't think you actually "consult" with someone who wasn't even hired until over two weeks later. At that time they didn't even know if they could reach an agreement for Berry to be the GM. Nor do you or I know if at that time they had even settled on who their target would be for the next GM. For all we know at that time Berry may have just been one of the finalists on their list for the job.

But that wasn't your claim now was it?


You can't hire someone to an organization you don't even work for.

I'm not comfortable with Berry staying on. He was more involved in putting together the pizz poor roster Stefnaski was coaching than anyone.

That wasn't the point.

I’m not saying every single problem in Cleveland is Andrew Berry’s fault. Ownership, coaching, injuries and players all matter too. But when people ask why some fans are uncomfortable giving this same leadership group another long runway, I think it’s fair to look at the pattern since 2020.

Since Berry and Stefanski took over, the Browns have had:

1. The Baker Mayfield injury situation
Baker played through a serious shoulder injury in 2021, the season collapsed, and the relationship never really recovered.

2. The OBJ drama
Odell Beckham Jr.’s time in Cleveland ended with public tension, his father posting the Baker video, missed practices, and eventually his release.

3. The Jarvis Landry exit
Landry was one of the emotional leaders who helped change the culture, but his departure still felt like another example of the team moving on from players who had actually helped build something.

4. The Deshaun Watson trade
Three first-round picks, a fully guaranteed $230 million contract, major off-field controversy, an 11-game suspension, and years of instability at quarterback. Even Jimmy Haslam later called it a “big swing and miss.”

5. The Watson press conference
The organization tried to sell the move as a great football decision, but the whole thing felt uncomfortable and poorly handled from the start.

6. The quarterback carousel
Baker Mayfield, Deshaun Watson, Jacoby Brissett, PJ Walker, Dorian Thompson-Robinson, Joe Flacco, Jameis Winston and others. For a front office that was supposed to bring stability, quarterback has been the opposite.

7. The Joe Flacco situation
Flacco came in off the couch, saved the 2023 season, helped lead the team to the playoffs, won Comeback Player of the Year, and then the Browns still moved on. Many fans never understood that decision.

8. The Nick Chubb situation
Chubb gave everything to this franchise. Injuries are part of the business, but the way beloved core players are handled matters when you talk about culture.

9. The Amari Cooper trade
Cooper was a major part of the 2023 playoff team, then he was traded during a season where the offense was already falling apart.

10. The Myles Garrett situation
When your best player publicly questions the direction of the franchise and wants out because he wants to compete for Super Bowls, that says something about the state of the organization.

11. Constant communication problems
Too often, the public message from the organization has sounded polished but empty. “Accountability” gets repeated, but the same mistakes keep happening.

12. Too many conflicts around important players
Mayfield, OBJ, Landry, Flacco, Cooper, Chubb, Watson, Garrett. At some point, it stops looking like isolated incidents and starts looking like a pattern.

That is my concern.

Berry may be smart. Ownership obviously plays a huge role too. But after this many years, this many quarterback mistakes, this many player conflicts, and this many failed decisions, I don’t think it’s unfair to ask whether this leadership group has really earned another five-year window.

I’m not rooting against them. I’m rooting for the Browns. I just don’t see enough evidence that this group is the one most likely to lead the franchise to sustained success.

Thanks.

A) As of today, absolutely. This is a, what have you done for me lately league. Over the past two years, I can say he did a lot that I have liked and agree with. Now, it's a loaded question because 5 years is a long time and there are no rules in the NFL on longevity. They could sign him to an extension through 2040 tomorrow and still fire him in 2027. The timelines don't matter.

B) The track record of terrible moves for me consist of his very first draft of his career in drafting Jed Wills and agreeing to Haslem's insistence of signing Watson to a 100% guaranteed deal while giving away the future in draft picks.

I'm curious what the other questions are that trouble you?

You really need to give up on a 5 year timeline though, the Not For Long league has no timelines on careers. It could all be over tomorrow.

Just last week we saw people discussing Myles new tax situation in California which has nothing to do with the game itself but now discussing how we got to where we are now, which is totally relevant, is something unworthy of discussion? Should I add "end of sentence" to try and make that more impactful?

Berry is here. He is a huge part of the Browns organization. Pretending his body of work isn't worthy of discussion sounds ridiculous.

Stefanski was hired before Berry. Berry was hired (IIRC) about a week after KS. My recollection is that they were a package deal, but that package was put together by Haslam (and probably Depo).

The Cleveland Browns hired head coach Kevin Stefanski first, officially announcing his appointment on January 13, 2020. They later hired Andrew Berry as their Executive Vice President of Football Operations and General Manager on January 28, 2020.

Berry was hired just over two weeks later.