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appearantly Toad wants to live in a bubble and CONVENIATLY FORGET the FACT it was a WEAK ASS DRAFT and that Opie had a DYSFUNCTIONAL, BARE BONES scouting staff and NO HC OR COACHING STAFF until the middle of Febuary and then add to that the fact they had to evaluate an entire team and all the FA's in about 60 days ..
I think there's about FIVE people in the City of Cleveland that actually GRASP THIS...
I won't even go elsewhere...
REGARDLESS of what Pool does in the next year...Edwards is enuff for this draft...
Go Browns!!!
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Bro, I love reading your posts. Even the parts I disagree w/are very entertaining and you make me laugh. No.......I ain't laughing at you either. Guess what? I had that ...excuses are for losers......saying before I read your stats are for losers classic. I used it on my football teams all the time. I didn't accept excuses. I preferred results. Of course, in our ever-changing world that is being run by soccer-moms and their offspring, accountability is for prehistoric thinkers. *L* Bro..........did I ever tell you that I hate soccer moms and their families?  Now........how does the saying excuses are for losers pertain to this thread? Well, this isn't about reasons for how good or bad it is.........it's about whether it was good or bad. And in my opinion, it was pretty damn sad. Hell bro........it was pathetic. That's the bottom line for me. We can make excuses all day, just like the south can say they might have won the war if they had the manufacturing and technology that the north did. They didn't......and they got their asses kicked! Likewise, we may have had excuses, but in the long run.......that draft set back our timetable. Quote:
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And again.........I ain't bad-mouthing the guy.
I don't believe u are ... U dont need to defend yourself to me .. save that for Pitt and Daman ... I believe it was Daman that called U simple minded or sumptin along those lines and Pitt accused U of "setting Opie" up in the part of the thread currently running on DA that was deleted by one of the Refs ...
Thanks for that. I don't need to comment, just wanted to acknowledge it.
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I'n not proclaiming him anywhere near a genius yet ... hell I'm still on the fence about the guy .. hes done SOME REAL GOOD THINGS in his 3 years here .. and thats GREAT ... but the results from his 2nd and 3rd drafts are far from conclusive ... and hes built HALF THE TEAM real well ... lets see how he builds the OTHER HALF before we proclaim him a genius ...
I agree. Let me interject w/a story. There was a time on here when everything Savage did was met by a comment on the board about what a genius he was.
---He said he would draft best available..........folks proclaimed him a genius.
---He said that he had a plan...........folks proclaimed him a genius.
---He said that he wanted to bring in character guys...........folks proclaimed him a genius.
He said he used toilet paper after he took a crap..... and you guessed it.......folks proclaimed him a genius. 
With that out of the way..........I have to say this. While Savage hasn't finished the job or warranted all the "genius" talk that goes on around here........I am way more confident about him being able to do the job than I was after that first FA period and draft. WAY MORE CONFIDENT!!!! Bro, I actually have legitimate hope that our team is on the way up. I couldn't say that before. We aren't there yet and there are no guarantees, but brother.........there is real hope!
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everyone's giddy about last year .. as well they should be ... but just like the playoff team that bOtch had .. this team was not near as good as it seemed (and the similiarities in the two teams end there .. this is a young team with ALOT OF TALENT and a GREAT FOUNDATION to build on .. that was an old team with NO FOUNDATION to build with) ....
Yeah, they shot their wad trying to win for Senior. This team has been built differently.
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we beat only 1 team with a winning record and they were a PRETTY BAD FOOTBAL TEAM THEMSELVES who only had a winning record because they got to play teams in their own WEAK ASS DIVISION and then got to play the Rats and Bungles in addition ... thats 8 EASY GAMES right there ..
You're right and I ain't arguing, but Diam..........I think this team grew a lot in the past year. I think they finally started realizing that they had enough talent to win games. They learned how to win........and bro.......that is HUGE for a team that has had our recent history. We grew a lot and teams are going to have to kick our ass to beat us now. We ain't falling apart at the first sign of adversity anymore. That's big. Our D still sucks, but I think Savage will improve it this year. Our O can score.....and score quick. And as a result, we are going to be able to grind it out more, like we did in the second half of the season. Sure the numbers won't be as spectacular, and people will rip on certain aspects of the team.......but that grinding out style helps the defense. Ya think the offense grinding out long, time-consuming drives didn't help the D late in the year?
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but to me the mitigating (big word for me .. I know .. and I think I may have even spelled it right .. *L*) circumstances HINDERED our efforts and are therefore worth mentioning and then U add in the PROBABLE RESULTS of the last two classes when the mitigating circumstances were removed and U get the free pass I would give them for the first class ..
I put this out of order, but damn man.............you sound like some kind of genius or something. Impressive. 
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did we overpay for a pretty bad cb?? ABSOLUTELY ... but if we moved him to safety he would have been well worth the $$$ even though we would have still been overpaying for him ...
make sense??? if not, it does to me .. *L* ..
LOL.......I'm sure as hell glad it makes sense to you. 
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I will say this ... I would much rather sign Mushy than Berrian .. I want NOTHING TO DO WITH BERRIAN ... NIOTHING ... he has BRICK HANDS ... U guys think Brey drops alot of footballs ... well Berrian makes him look like Chris Carter when it comes to drops .. we need a POSSESION GUY if we go FA WR ...
Berrian is stone hands and his route running sucks too. He is fast and makes big plays, so people go ga-ga over him. But he sucks. I hope to God we don't bring him in.
Now, if you will excuse me........I need to go in search of that oxygen tank you were referring to.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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If U didn't like the pick thats fine..I didn't like it but I knew the reasons why..
Thats not a excuse..thats just understanding the selection.
Understanding that a gamble is a gamble isn't the same as evaluating the gamble after the play has been made. If the question is to justify the gamble, that's one thing. If the question is to evaluate the end result of a given action, that's another.
This thread isn't about justifying gambles. It's about evaluating actions. Frye failed, and any player taken on the first day that doesn't turn into a starter (or key contributor) by his third year is deemed a failure. That Frye is no longer on the team makes him a monumental failure. Rationalizing the motives behind the selection changes nothing.
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And If I'm not mistaken even U chipped in that we needed to see what the kid had..so why turn and bust Phil out now?
"Chipping in" that Frye should play revolved around the ultimate goal of "EVALUATING" whether or not the gamble that Savage made was wise. Note the word "EVALUATION." "Busting" on Phil and "evaluating" the selection are two different things. Surely you should be able to get that, as they are two very different concepts.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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It was VERY easy to justify a 3rd round pick on Frye at the time.
Keyword: "At the time....." 
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now it looks like a big dud. But not nearly as bad as Tim Couch or Gerard Warren.
Interesting choice of words, just as with your first sentence.
"Now it looks like a big dud" is evaluation, while the first sentence is justification. Two very different concepts. "not nearly as bad as Couch or Warren" is something else as well. The level of failure is less important than the actual fact that it was a failure.
Sure, it all sounds like a game of semantics, but as I've allready stated....and apparently have to state again.....it looks as though Saint's intent is to honestly evaluate the draft class of the 2005 Browns. If the goal is to compare the class against each teams class throughout the league, we'll come to one conclusion. If the goal is to judge the class solely upon it's own merit, we'll come to another conclusion.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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So, since I can't sleep, I might as well go ahead and look at each teams 2005 draft class and compare it to ours. Afterall, that's (apparently) what most people want to do, as opposed to evaluating our class by itself.
Cards:
Rolle is a bigtime CB, having 5 int's and 3 TD's. Arrington is a monumental bust. Green was contributing as a nickel before being lost to a torn groin (ouch). Blackstock was contributing. Elton Brown can't get in the lineup. IMHO, we have the better player in in Edwards, but it's even in terms of returns for the entire class.
Falcons:
Roddy White: 83 catches for 1200 yards.
Babineaux: 41 tackles and 3 sacks. Not good for the 2nd rounder.
Beck (3rd round) had allready been waived, and their 4th rounder had 2 sacks.
Edwards is superior to White, but is Pool superior to Babineaux?
Rats:
Clayton: 48 catches for 500+ yards. Not so great for a 1st rounder.
Dan Cody (2nd rounder) lost for 2007 due to injuries. Big failure so far.
Adam Terry (OT) 2nd rounder can't get on the field. Failure.
Let's skip to their 6th rounder.....Derek Anderson 
That selection alone makes this an interesting discussion. What would Clayton's numbers be with Anderson? What would Edwards be without him?
Bills:
Didn't have a 1st round pick. 2nd rounder Roscoe Parrish had 35 catches for 350 yards. Is an accomplished pro-bowl caliber returner.
We all know what happened to Kevin Everett.
Not a great draft.
Panthers:
Thomas Davis (DB, now an OLB) 1st rounder. 88 tackles, 3 picks, 2 sacks.
Took an injured Eric Shelton and he hasn't done much. Nothing else of note for the Panthers.
Bears:
Ced Benson (1st) Mark Bradley (WR, 2nd round, 6 catches all year) Kyle Orton (4th round). Yuck.
Bungles:
David Pollack (1st) broken neck, out of football. Odell Thurman (2nd round) suspended. Chris Henry (3rd) suspended. ROFL.
Browns:
Edwards (1st) 80 catches, 1289 yards 15 TD's. Pool (2nd) 58 tackles. 2 int's. Frye (3rd) traded for a 6th rounder, 3rd stringer in Seattle. Perkins (4th rounder) and the rest either off the team or not playing.
Cowboys:
Demarcus Ware (1st) 33 sacks in 3 years, 14 sacks in 07. Spears (1st) started 32 games the past two years. Kevin Burnett (2nd) 53 tackles, 5 assists. Barber (4th) 975 yards (4.8 YPC) 10 TD's. 44 catches. Chris Canty (4th) 43 tackles, 3.5 sacks.
Broncos:
Darrent Williams (2nd) Dead. Foxworth and Paymah (DB's, 3rd round) situational starters/nickel backs. Claurice Maurett. Jail.
Lions:
Mike Williams (1st) major bust as a WR. Shaun Cody (2nd DE) big failure. Stanley Wilson (DB 3rd) 30 tackles, no INT's. Rest failures.
Packers:
Aaron Rodgers (1st) backs up Brett Favre. Nick Collins (2nd DB) 13 games, 46 tackles, no int's. Terrence Murphy (3rd round) WR, cut. Rest a bunch of nobodies.
Texans:
Travis Johnson DT (1st) marginal starter. 41 tackles, no sacks in 15 games. Looks like a bust. Vernand Morency (3rd) traded to Packers. 100 yards rushing. Jerome Mathis (WR 4th). 3 games in 2008, return specialist, just arrested for DWI.
Colts:
Jackson (1st) 16 games, 88 tackles, 1 int. Starts at corner and/or safety. Kelvin Hayden (2nd DB). 16 games started, 83 tackles, 2 ints. Vincent Burns (3rd DE) DNP in '07. Dylan Gandy (4th guard) 1 start.
Jags:
Matt Jones (WR 1st) 24 catches. Converted QB, can't figure out WR position. Largly a bust. Khalif Barnes (2nd, OT) starting left tackle. Starks (3rd DB) 23 tackles, 1 int. Alvin Pearman (4th RB) 3 games before tearing MCL with the Seahawks. Chad Owens (5'7 WR) return man with no game.
Chiefs:
Derrick Johnson (1st) 94 tackles, 3 sacks, 2 INt's. Really good player. Colquitt (3rd, punter). Good punter....he's a freakin' punter  No 2nd rounder. Crophonso Thorpe (4th WR) No longer with team.
If anyone wants to continue, feel free. I'm finally gettin' sleepy (which is why I do this *L*).
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Just to set the limbo bar what is your (or other posters) acceptable bust % for a GM? Just curious.
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can any of you all look at it like this?
in 2005, this draft may have been exactly what the browns needed. Each player drafted was exactly what we needed. At the same time though, there is free agency, and there are players who just hung in their and kept their roster spot.
For example, Antonio Perkins... Leigh Bodden began to shine around that time, and took limelight from our other corners. We also had Gary Baxter and Daylon McCutcheon. We always needed a corner to take over, but if we have a lot of bodies at a position, its going to be hard for a rookie to take over a vet. Perkins may have had the talent to be starting this day, but was really never given the opportunity, and also the fact I think he was a little injury prone.
The same goes for the LB's we drafted. There is no way Rac was going to start these guys in his first year! NO WAY! Speegle was a project, as well as McMillan. And in 06, drafting both Wimbley and D'Qwell... well you know how high they were drafted, and how fast they took over the starting spots. Again, depth was issue here.
I could do these for a lot of the players, but in my opinion, its a good thing some of these players are not here. Yes we want EVERY pick to "pan" out, but at the same time, you want whats best for the team.
Once the Browns become more stable with their starters, you will see that project players will have more of a chance to contribute, and then again, it could be the opposite. Joshua Cribbs says it best, its the "Not For Long" league, so you never know whats going to happen.
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/6WV79RV/Browns-Coach-Sig.png)
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you had a good run Hank.
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"Chipping in" that Frye...
Here's the thing about Frye in my opinion.
If, and that's a big word, Quinn doesn't hold out and starts the season we cut Anderson and make Frye the backup. In that scenario Frye would be a good pick. 3rd round backup QB for some years. Not bad.
If, anyone was interested in Anderson, and nobody was, he would have gone instead of Frye. For the result see above. Good pick.
Almost everyone considered Frye our best shot at winning in '07 considering who we had on the roster and Quinns holdout. If, there's that word again, Frye doesn't collaspe in the first quarter vs. the Steelers, he'd likely have faired much better as the season wore on until Quinn got his shot. In that case Frye becomes the backup. Again, see the first paragraph. Good pick.
What makes Frye seemed to have "busted" was the unpredictible play of DA. Likely, most believed DA would do no better than Frye and possibly/probably worse. It's tough to call one player a bust pretty much based on another player's unexpected good play.
We had four QB's. That's too many. One was the future, one was the teacher and that left Frye and DA. Between them the only one anyone had any interest in at all was Fyre. Since we had to get down to three QB's and would much rather have gotten something for the odd man out rather than cut one and get nothing we traded the only one of the three who had any value at all. Since that was Frye he got us a 6th round pick. That's at least something. The other two had absolutely no value whatsoever.
Enter DA, who plays way above anyone's expectations, and that makes Frye look like a bust. Had DA played like everyone expected him to play there would have been controversy on whether we traded the wrong guy.
A guy's a bust or he's not. That evaluation should not be dependent on freak situations such as DA selling his soul to the devil. Would Frye have been a long time starter? Not bloddy likely. But he would have been a valuable backup and that would have made him a good pick.
Gotta go to work...
#gmstrong
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Last edited by bigf00t; 02/20/08 09:54 AM.
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These are your words..
Simple. Knowing that he was a failure, and knowing that he doesn't have enough game, either physically or mentally, to be a starter, and knowing that his trade value was that of a 6th round pick, it's rather fascinating to see that Frye and Savage are both being defended when the pick and the player were both flops.
In order to spit that out you WOULD HAVE TO KNOW it was going to go that route in advance ..U nor anyone else didn't...
We only came to the conclusion that Frye was not the guy AFTER 06....well some had..I had reached mine during the season ..ahem...and not when DA got in either...
So it was then I felt he didn't have it..
Now maybe U feel in your bones everyone is excusing Phil or making excuses..and again I stand on my premise to say understanding why a player was drafted is not making a excuse for the pick ..it means U know the reasons behind the pick whether it succeeds or not.
I can say it wouldn't nor wasn't my selection at the time..just like Perkins..not a guy I would have picked and a misfire..
If you've come to know anything about me U should know when it comes to the draft, I don't make excuses for picks..it's been my custom to question/fuss/argue about selections the day after the draft(usually I'm not on here during the draft ..even though I was last year)..
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#gmstrong
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If, and that's a big word, Quinn doesn't hold out and starts the season we cut Anderson and make Frye the backup. In that scenario Frye would be a good pick. 3rd round backup QB for some years. Not bad.
Too bad you had to go to work. Just go ahead and retire, move to Texas, and we'll play some golf
As you noted, that little word..........."IF"............changes everything. What-if scenarios no longer hold sway since evaluation is based on actual facts that have occured. Example:
Frye plays well against the Steelers, shows drastic improvement, and goes to the pro-bowl this season. That'd make the pick an amazing one.
But that didn't happen 
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What makes Frye seemed to have "busted" was the unpredictible play of DA.
Two reasons why I'm forced to disagree with that premise. The first is fact, the second......well.......it'll have to be taken at face value
Anderson showed nothing in pre-season to warrant any feelings that he'd do what he did. Yet despite that, the team was CLEARLY ready to yank Frye out at the first signs of trouble. You don't pull your starting QB for someone you have little faith in unless you didn't believe in the starter to begin with. So that clearly shows the team didn't believe in Frye.
The second revolves around the one contact that I still have in the league. He'd made it clear to me a couple of years ago that Savage wanted Anderson to take Frye's job. People were very skeptical of me when I said it (as they had every right to be) way back when, but ever since, all the body language seems to support that line of reasoning.
In short, the Browns knew Frye stood little chance of getting any better. Not only did he not show the most basic requirements to be an NFL starter, but his skill-set (and I use that term loosely) didn't fit the system we'd put in place for this season.
When one considers that we yanked Frye without any evidence from Anderson in pre-season that he was worth the look, that clearly states we were ready to dump Frye on the spot. He simply had first crack at the job because A) He was the incumbent, and B) because he was the higher draft investment.
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A guy's a bust or he's not. That evaluation should not be dependent on freak situations such as DA selling his soul to the devil.
I couldn't agree more  But you must remember that we didn't dump Frye based on what DA became. We dumped Frye because we'd simply had enough of him. That means he was a bust, based solely upon his own lack of production and development. Further evidence is found by what we received in compensation. Any QB who's viewed as even a borderline potential starter isn't traded for a lowly 6th round pick.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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These are your words..
Simple. Knowing that he was a failure, and knowing that he doesn't have enough game, either physically or mentally, to be a starter, and knowing that his trade value was that of a 6th round pick, it's rather fascinating to see that Frye and Savage are both being defended when the pick and the player were both flops.
In order to spit that out you WOULD HAVE TO KNOW it was going to go that route in advance ..U nor anyone else didn't...
Dude.............LOL!...............What you just quoted me on speaks of evaluating Frye based on historical fact. He didn't have what it took to be a starter here. That's a fact. He was traded for a 6th round pick when the team gave up on him. That's a fact. That has absolutely NOTHING to do with my own thoughts of him PRIOR to those moments in time. Sheesh.
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Now maybe U feel in your bones everyone is excusing Phil or making excuses..and again I stand on my premise to say understanding why a player was drafted is not making a excuse for the pick ..it means U know the reasons behind the pick whether it succeeds or not.
I absolutely hate it when a few people share an opinion, then someone lumps everyone in to that mix, so I'll choose my words carefully. There is a sentiment that's not shared by everyone which says the failure of Frye can be excused because people understood the reason behind the gamble. My point is that the reasons behind a gamble are meaningless when the intent is to simply evaluate the end-result of said gamble. In this case, the reasons for gambling on Frye play zero role in the evaluation of Frye the player. The player flopped, busted, and was traded for a sack of wet beans. The reasons for his selection become meaningless when it's realized we took a 3rd round selection and in less than two full seasons parlayed that selection into a 6th round pick. The pick was a complete failure.
Now we can discuss why Savage made the pick all day long. That doesn't change the ultimate evaluation of the pick.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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What makes Frye seemed to have "busted" was the unpredictible play of DA. Likely,
I think we all realized he was a bust when he stepped onto the field against the Steelers game one in 2007, and he took all of those sacks. 
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Dude.............LOL!...............What you just quoted me on speaks of evaluating Frye based on historical fact. He didn't have what it took to be a starter here. That's a fact. He was traded for a 6th round pick when the team gave up on him. That's a fact. That has absolutely NOTHING to do with my own thoughts of him PRIOR to those moments in time. Sheesh.
Sheesh yourself  I said that to U because of the phrase U used..not what the BROWNS DID.. U clarified it better but it sounded like U took what I said(or maybe it was Diam's comment) and just thought ''they're all making excuses." Bad Savage! He shoulda just drafted Hobbs and left it alone.. In this case, the reasons for gambling on Frye play zero role in the evaluation of Frye the player. And I never tried to use the reasons as a barrier for evaluating him because I did so during the 06 season..but what make it seem worse is that I thought DA was a even bigger gamble...he never even looked productive the times he was in..just a different skill-set. I certainly don't deny it was a failed experiement. But it's offset by the fact of what DA did accomplish...a waiver pickup. It was a gamble and it didn't work with Frye.. The whole premise of this thread is to evaluate the 05 draft..well..from picks 3-7 they failed .. We're still waiting about pick # 2.. Now I will say this..Phil is one to addess his mistakes so I can say he isn't one to sit on it and do nothing.
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Sure, it all sounds like a game of semantics, but as I've allready stated....and apparently have to state again.....it looks as though Saint's intent is to honestly evaluate the draft class of the 2005 Browns. If the goal is to compare the class against each teams class throughout the league, we'll come to one conclusion. If the goal is to judge the class solely upon it's own merit, we'll come to another conclusion.
Toad is exactly correct here. My intention and what I did was to evaluate the 05 draft class strictly on it's own merits. I did suggest a few alternative picks and gave short reasons why I thought of them. In fact, I didn't make any alternative picks after Frye because that would be a waste of time.
I'm not real interested in the excuses of 3 years ago.. had I been I would have written a post saying "Savage is okay, he didn't have much to work with" and have been done with it.
This is simple.. was the pick a good one or not? Did the player we picked succeed or did he not? Is he a starter or a contributing player or is he not?
Heck, is the guy in football or not? The reasons why they are, why they aren't, in all honesty aren't as central to my thesis as what the actual evaluation of that drafted player is. Did he make it or did he not?
Braylon made it.. he's a bona fide starter
Pool.. a starter with questions
Everyone else.. they failed with the Browns. McMillan is the only one that might be able to salvage that opinion but I kinda doubt it. In fact, I have a hard time seeing him make it out of training camp this year.
I wanted 2 starters and a solid contributor. Bottom line is we fell short of that 3rd guy.
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-JC-
I pretty much gave Savage a bye on the 05 draft. It was his first draft running the show. I'll be more harsh on him for 06 and beyond.
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Nobody mentioned that right after the draft we signed undrafted Josh Cribbs - I'd consider that an 8th round steal...
And in a bit of irony - one could make an argument that we got the best QB of that draft anway...
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Nobody mentioned that right after the draft we signed undrafted Josh Cribbs - I'd consider that an 8th round steal...
Actually, DjangoBrown did bring up that fact in the 11th reply to this thread. (he asked if anyone would have been mad had we picked him in the 4th round)
The answer is no. 
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Maybe I expect too little out of a draft, but I basically expect 2 players a draft to actually end up being good players.
In the end, we got that with Edwards and Pool.
Pool isn't great by any means but I would put him in the good category...if you can get a great player like Edwards, then it sort of balances things.
As to Frye...we needed a qb and we didn't really blow the pick on him IMO...we took a shot that didn't work.
Yep....2 players a draft. If you can get 2 who end up better than special teamers and can actually start and not kill you, you are doing about as well as can be expected.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
The answer is no.
At least now. At the time a few might have been a little miffed.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Hey, people are making posts we "shoulda drafted so and so" instead, so I figured the 20/20 hindsight rule was in effect.
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My bad.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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The hindsight rule is in effect, as it should be. Getting Cribbs was a great move by Savage.
I do have to take exception w/Peen's comment about Pool being a "good" player. Sorry, he sucks ass!
I still that overall--free agency and the draft---Savage had a very poor year.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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If the pickup truck load of apples are mostly bad, and there are 32 people grabbing apples out of it, you are going to get a lot of bad apples. If you get a really good one you're probably on par with the rest of the grabbers. The draft was indeed a poor one. But I can't blame anyone for that. Using hindsight, most of the NFL GM's blundered badly having passed on some really good apples. But that happens every year. The more good apples on the truck; the more good apples teams come away with. That was only somewhat stupid. Not totally stupid.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
I do have to take exception w/Peen's comment about Pool being a "good" player. Sorry, he sucks ass!
Maybe so. I guess it is all in the opinion.
I do know he is a starting NFL player and don't think that this is the only team he could start for or at minimum get significant play time.
If they meet that criteria, then they rate "good" in my book.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Peen, sure glad to see you back on the board. With the storms down in your area you had me worried when you were absent so long as I thought your trip was going to be much shorter.
#gmstrong
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Peen, sure glad to see you back on the board. With the storms down in your area you had me worried when you were absent so long as I thought your trip was going to be much shorter.
No, we went to SF for a few days, then the islands for 15, then Vegas for 2.
Had a great time, but glad to be home.
Thanks for the thoughts.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Quote:
I do have to take exception w/Peen's comment about Pool being a "good" player. Sorry, he sucks ass!
But if it's J Lows ass it's all good
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum 2005 Browns Draft.. the 3rd year
evaluation
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