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See kingo, I can understand Ndu's general disdain for Religion as a whole. Believe me, it perplexes the hell out of me sometimes.
Much like him, I believe Jesus taught love and kindness. Love your neighbor. The entire concept of "pre-emptive war" goes against everything I believe that Jesus represents.
And yes, the "moral majority" and "the Christian right" as they have often proclaimed themselves to be, seem to sing Onward Christian Soldiers and follow blindly.
But in the grand scheme of things, they represent a small percentage of Christians on this planet. However, for the past seven plus years, our youth have seen a leader under the disguise of Christianity, start a war without justification, and these "followers" blindly support his actions. It's quite confusing to me as a Christian as well.
But in the grander scheme of things, there are many, many Christians who do volunteer work, donate to charities, volunteer and even sponsor their own food pantry's, sponsor meals and help provide homeless shelters within their communities, and tons of other things to help the underprivaliged.
But the fact is, Smilin' Joe Christian helping out at the homeless shelter doesn't make national headlines. It's those "on the fringe" or you might say "the extremist nut jobs" who grab the headlines as in these cases.
So I do understand why he may feel the way he does. Luckily, throughout my life, I have met more of what I feel are honest and sincere Christians. But I have met my share that give me cause to ask myself many of the same questions he does......................
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I wasnt trying to get all that, I was just trying to point out that Christianity hasnt only spread by war.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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I have my own thoughts about missionaries, but I won't mention them here. I think a lot of it has to do with the nutjobs in Islam have wrecked havoc in Africa and people are looking for another option
Yep, and their have been Christian nutjobs who have wreeked havoc too. People on either side have taken what their scriptures say and interpreted them in way to justify their lust for war and dominance.Jihad does not mean "holy war" as some have tried to claim it does, Jihad means the inner struggle against your personal desires and sins to lead life in a godly way.
KING
You are correct, but the christian reign of terror was a while ago...it's the muslims turn now.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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You are correct, but the christian reign of terror was a while ago...it's the muslims turn now.
OOOH I shouldnt say this 
The Muslims reign of terror has went since Mohammed started it about 500 years after the death of Jesus.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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You are correct, but the christian reign of terror was a while ago...it's the muslims turn now.
OOOH I shouldnt say this
The Muslims reign of terror has went since Mohammed started it about 500 years after the death of Jesus.
KING
You're right, you shouldn't have said it. It's untrue, and the christian reign of terror was pretty brutal before the muslims really got the hang of it.
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You are correct, but the christian reign of terror was a while ago...it's the muslims turn now.
OOOH I shouldnt say this
The Muslims reign of terror has went since Mohammed started it about 500 years after the death of Jesus.
KING
Say it...speak your mind
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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[You're right, you shouldn't have said it. It's untrue, and the christian reign of terror was pretty brutal before the muslims really got the hang of it.
Its untrue?? I already acknowledged the Chrisitan reign of terror. So you want to say I am wrong in saying Mohammed was a warrior?? One of Mohammeds most famous acts was the counquering of Mecca, well reconquering of Mecca. That is a recorded fact.So yeah those were the first acts of war in the name of Islam, since his revelations were the beginning of Islam.
KING
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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just clickin!
*Pretty interesting discussion going on here. And people have made some really good points of contentions with "Christians". I think the biggest problem is that Christian is a name/term that a person should "earn" not give to themselves. Beyonce (in a movie) once said, "Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car."
Jesus himself said "you can tell a tree from by its fruit", thus you can tell a person by their works. A REAL Christian is evident by his/her works not by what they or others call themselves or where they spend their Sunday(s) mornings.
*Another thing i often here from people is that Christians shouldn't judge other individuals, however i often wonder what people mean when they say judge. Is a person judging another if they tell them a certain act is wrong?
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j/c
What You Say.....and What It Means
When I say "I am a Christian", I'm not shouting "I'm clean living".
I'm whispering "I was lost, now I'm found and forgiven.
When I say I'm a Christian I don't speak of this with pride.
Im confessing that I stumble and need Christ to be my guide.
Whe I say I'm a Christian I'm not trying to be strong.
I'm professing that I'm weak and need His strength to carry on.
When I say I'm a Christian, I'm not bragging of success.
I'm admitting I have failed and need God to clean my mess.
When I say I'm a Christian I'm not claiming to be perfect.
My flaws are too visible but God believes I'm worth it.
When I say I'm a Christian I still feel the sting of pain.
I have my share of heartaches, so I call upon His name.
When I say I'm a Christian, I'm not holier than thou.
I'm just a simple sinner who received God's good grace, somehow.
Don't know who wrote that, so I can't give credit to anyone. I have this hanging on my desk here in my office. Why? To remind me, daily.
Just thought I'd share it.
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Seems like Christians are supposed to think pretty lowly of themselves.
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Perhaps. But if that's what you got out of that, I really feel for you. It's better than thinking too highly of yourself, isn't it?  Even keel - not better, not worse.
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It means that Christians are supposed to realize and admit they are flawed. Something I can say many folks Christian or not, have difficulty doing at times.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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haven't read the entire thread, but wanted to comment on the original topic...
hypocrisy...this drives me nuts, and is the #1 problem i have with most Christians i know well...e.g. how can parents' decision to have an abortion be under question if their right to let their children die from preventable illness is preserved?...b/c 1 case is taking action and 1 is taking no action?...that's a lame argument...either way, it is a choice...would we distinguish between a mother drowning her child in the bathtub and the father standing in the doorway watching it happen?...maybe in length of jail sentence, but they're both guilty...
but in a way, the parents did something that i can respect, here...that is, THEY did not practice hypocrisy...now, i'm decidedly biased towards a scientific perspective, but if someone wants to refuse the right to use science b/c they believe it corrupts their faith, that's what this country is all about...too many religious friends and family of mine will bash products of the scientific process (theories on evolution, climate change, use of stem cells, etc.), and then turn around and go to their doctor for medical treatments...
kind of like DC mentioned early on...these people didn't tuck tail and run from their faith when they were faced with a real test of it...and if their beliefs are right, i hope they're rewarded 1000-fold over the typical Christians i know, who will manipulate the Christian faith to fit their needs rather than the other way around...
Browns fans are born with it...
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What the guy above me said
KING
Well then maybe you're a real Christian. You don't generalize and judge homesexuals, transvesites, muslims, immigrants, women, arab militias, terrorists. You're the exception then.
There's more than one of us out here!
You see, that book they all read tells me that, it's not my place to Judge. That's for God to do, not me.
It also tell me that if I have sinned, then I should not cast stones at others.
I take those things pretty seriously.
It also tells you that you have an obligation to try to bring all people to Christ... it talks about leading by example, setting a standard, living a "good" life, etc..... so in doing that, don't you have to address their sins with them at some point? and aren't the things mentioned sins?
Sorry, I have a bit of problem with the way a lot of people use the term "judgmental"... 
yebat' Putin
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It also tells you that you have an obligation to try to bring all people to Christ
I have a very big problem with that, which is why I end up in so many arguments with christians trying to "convert" me.
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it talks about leading by example, setting a standard, living a "good" life, etc..... so in doing that, don't you have to address their sins with them at some point? and aren't the things mentioned sins?
there's no need for you to confront someone about their sins if your living a good life. Leading by example usually means watch what I do, and follow along...nothing else need be said. When you try to "address" someone about their shortcomings...that comes off as judgemental, especially since no christian is admittedly "perfect" and all have sinned.
Clean up your own backyard...I'll worry about mine!
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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I always believed as a Christian, our job is to just tell people and show people through our actions about our relationship with Christ, and leave it at that. When the time is right, whether it's that day or 10 years later, Christ will lead them. And I can only hope that my actions helped lead them there.
Never tell them they have to follow, or that they are going to hell or anything like that. That's not a Christians job. It's our job to open the door, it's up to them to step in.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I can't disagree with that...in my days of christianity, I felt the same way. I often got disenchanted with my fellow christians for using the "fire and brimstone" approach.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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I was always in a quandry. Because if I went to heaven, it's really be hell, stuck with all those Christians going on and on about it. I mean, if heaven means you get to sin all the time, it might be fun - do porn stars get to go? Cuz otherwise, I may as well be in hell anyway.
Luckily, I don't have a soul. So when I die, I'm just going to rot.
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So when I die, I'm just going to rot
Everyone will, at least that's what the bible says.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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It also tells you that you have an obligation to try to bring all people to Christ... it talks about leading by example, setting a standard, living a "good" life, etc..... so in doing that, don't you have to address their sins with them at some point? and aren't the things mentioned sins?
I believe that "living by example" is the way you "asddress their sins". I try to be kind and considerate of others, I am generaly a happy person, use manners and common courtesy,etc...... From that, I've "been asked what makes you so happy with the problems you have"?
I explain that it's my belief and faith in the Lord. Nothing more. I feel that if they see something in me that they themselves would like to attain, that will help lead them to Christ. I however do NOT believe that "pointing out their sins and faults" is in any way constructive in regards to "leading them to Christ".
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Sorry, I have a bit of problem with the way a lot of people use the term "judgmental"...
Often times we "have a problem with it" because it hits to close to home. I thinkst thou protest too much.....................
Since I do know that I believe you are a "sincere Christian, I'll give you an example. Lott and Sodom and Gamorha. (sp?)
God did not ask LOTT nor his family to go down into these cities and preach or convert anyone. He did not ask Lott to "point out their faults" to them. He simply asked Lott to see if he could "find" people that were not perverse and living in a very sinfull manner in order to save those cities.
And yes, I'm more than happy to share my beliefs and even offer to go with and or take people to Church who are "interested" in doing so.
But no, I do NOT believe we as humans have the "right according to God's word" to "point out the faults of others" to them or try to "convert them".
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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So when I die, I'm just going to rot
Everyone will, at least that's what the bible says.
Yes it does. Even though many will lambaste me for this.
The example is King David. It says that he is in the grave. He knowest not and heareth not. (sort of like being asleep)
In Revelations, it speaks of "the resurrections" (the raising of the dead) If everybody is already in heaven or hell as so many profess, who is there left to resurrect?
It's pretty basic math really...................
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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It also tells you that you have an obligation to try to bring all people to Christ
I have a very big problem with that, which is why I end up in so many arguments with christians trying to "convert" me.
Wel, perhaps I'm outside the norm but I don't believe I can convert anybody and I don't think I can get anybody to stop sinning because I tell them they are going to hell. I can live my life and I can tell you what Christ has done for me... from that point on, you pretty much get to lead the conversation, if you don't want to talk about it, then we won't talk about it, we can talk about football or LeBron... I'll just leave it at, "If you ever do want to talk about it, give me a call." That was perhaps one of the great quotes of Billy Graham who was asked how he felt knowing he had converted hundreds of thousands of people.. and he said he had not converted anybody, all he did was talk to those who would listen and Christ did the rest.
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it talks about leading by example, setting a standard, living a "good" life, etc..... so in doing that, don't you have to address their sins with them at some point? and aren't the things mentioned sins?
there's no need for you to confront someone about their sins if your living a good life. Leading by example usually means watch what I do, and follow along...nothing else need be said. When you try to "address" someone about their shortcomings... that comes off as judgemental, especially since no christian is admittedly "perfect" and all have sinned.
Clean up your own backyard...I'll worry about mine!
First, I didn't say "confront".. I said "address".. which gives a completely different picture... Anyway, I generally don't talk about sin at all... at least not early in the conversation (unless they bring it up). My feeling is that you lead somebody to Christ first, if you can't get them that far, then talking about sin is absolutely pointless. Oh well, I could go on and on about my feelings on evangelism and why most of the people that I see do it, are different than me.... but I won't. If you'd like to discuss it further, you can pm me... and no, I'm not going to try to "convert" you... 
yebat' Putin
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First, I didn't say "confront".. I said "address".. which gives a completely different picture...
Actually, it doesn't in some cases (and we've had those discussions on this board).
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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BTW I am actually for having parents who have obese kids being mandated to take courses in parenting and finding out about the harm they are doing to their children by simply failing in that aspect of parenting .
Yet you're all for letting second hand smoke kill them. 
My kid is overweight. At 5'5 170+ pounds I think he is considered obese. I don't need a stupid class to tell me the effects. Even overweight he is more active and in better shape then most of the kids in his class. He doesn't eat a lot of junk food, or drink anything with the exception of gaterade that is unhealthy.
He is built like my wife's side of the family and is thinning out. Does that mean I'm becoming a better parent even though I haven't done anything different? What about all the skinny little kids that are underweight? do we send them to classes also? Or the kids who live with parents who smoke, ot those parents that have a couple of drinks at dinner then drive their kids home?
There is a difference between kids that are considered obese and the ones who are alarming obese. Anytime you try to mandate things it can be a slippery slope. A slippery slope that you as a bar owner complains about.
#gmstrong
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Wel, perhaps I'm outside the norm
I've only got one thing to say, being in a group such as a religion is much like being in a marching band. You can play your instrument as loud and as hard as you want, but in the end, only thing anybody hears is the bad.
I respect you individualism as a christian, as I'm sure you respect mine as a borderline agnostic. But in the end, those terms are not defined by one person, but by the collective actions of the entire group...both good and bad. And like it or not, you have to accept it when people are critical of your group. Even as a black man, I have to accept when other races are critical of mine...some of it justified, some not. That doesn't change the TYPE of person I am, it just shapes the view of the group that I'm in. Most people think agnostic and atheists are the same thing...not so. I have to just learn to live with that misconception, or stand up and let people know. Same with being black, I can live my life as a righteous man, and hope people notice and reshape their views.
Anyway, I'm starting to ramble, I'm ready to go home.
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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Go home, have a beverage, have a good evening... and if all of the worlds problems aren't solved by tomorrow, I'll see you back here.
yebat' Putin
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Go home, have a beverage, have a good evening... and if all of the worlds problems aren't solved by tomorrow, I'll see you back here.
Thanks, but since I don't drink, I'll have some herbs instead...I still got a half hour before I can go 
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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there's no need for you to confront someone about their sins if your living a good life. Leading by example usually means watch what I do, and follow along...nothing else need be said. When you try to "address" someone about their shortcomings...that comes off as judgemental, especially since no christian is admittedly "perfect" and all have sinned.
Clean up your own backyard...I'll worry about mine!
But has anybody who is a Christian ever explained to you WHY they do what they do instead of telling you what to do? IMO Thats what a real Christian should do. Not preach to you, but explain why they are doing what they do bud
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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What the guy above me said
KING
Well then maybe you're a real Christian. You don't generalize and judge homesexuals, transvesites, muslims, immigrants, women, arab militias, terrorists. You're the exception then.
You might be suprised to find out he is NOT the exception.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Luckily, I don't have a soul. So when I die, I'm just going to rot.
You forgot to say IMO bro
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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 Good one, GM. Have you ever read or been part of homosexual threads around here?
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Nope I have never even seen one
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Have we ever had one of those types of threads?
![[Linked Image from i75.photobucket.com]](http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i302/lrhinkle/d5eaf0b9-e429-4211-b53f-b843bfcf6aa9_zps2ac17420.jpg) #gmstrong
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I hope you're not implying that you, GM, are an exception. I just saw you bash immigrants on another thread.
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Luckily, I don't have a soul. So when I die, I'm just going to rot.
You forgot to say IMO bro
Nope. I actually spoke with God and we made a deal. I gave him my soul to give to someone else who sold theirs to satan, and I get to just die and be gone.
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Since I do know that I believe you are a "sincere Christian, I'll give you an example. Lott and Sodom and Gamorha. (sp?)
God did not ask LOTT nor his family to go down into these cities and preach or convert anyone. He did not ask Lott to "point out their faults" to them. He simply asked Lott to see if he could "find" people that were not perverse and living in a very sinfull manner in order to save those cities.
And yes, I'm more than happy to share my beliefs and even offer to go with and or take people to Church who are "interested" in doing so.
But no, I do NOT believe we as humans have the "right according to God's word" to "point out the faults of others" to them or try to "convert them".
JMHO
I disagree. In the book of Ezekiel (33:7-10) it speaks about how an individual can actually be guilty in Gods eyes for not as you say "pointing out the faults of others".
A Christian is supposed to love his/her neighbors. If you truly thought one of your neighbors was doing something that would put their life in jeopardy, how could you claim to be a Christian *(not anyone personally)* and yet refuse to attempt to help that person?
![[Linked Image from i3.photobucket.com]](http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/lazeone11/ClevelandTowerCityjayem-1.jpg)
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Ezekial 33:7-10
7 "Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; so hear the word I speak and give them warning from me. 8 When I say to the wicked, 'O wicked man, you will surely die,' and you do not speak out to dissuade him from his ways, that wicked man will die for his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. 9 But if you do warn the wicked man to turn from his ways and he does not do so, he will die for his sin, but you will have saved yourself.
10 "Son of man, say to the house of Israel, 'This is what you are saying: "Our offenses and sins weigh us down, and we are wasting away because of them. How then can we live?"
It says to speak out, and dissuade him from his ways.. Not tell him he is doing wrong.
To me it means, go forth and tell him of the greatness that God has given my life, and that he could have that too if he chooses.
Quote:
Luke 6:41-42
41"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 42How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,323
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,323 |
Quote:
I hope you're not implying that you, GM, are an exception. I just saw you bash immigrants on another thread.
You left out the word ILLEGAL, geez get with the program 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,323
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,323 |
Quote:
I get to just die and be gone.
How soon
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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