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There's a difference between being quoted by someone and having someone like Kirwin state that behind the scenes a player is favoring for a guy.
The world isn't black and white, cut and dry. If Winslow stood right in front of a camera and said he wanted Anderson to start over Quinn, it's one thing. If in the middle of a column it's reported that Winslow had been heard stating he wants Anderson to return as the starter it's completely different in terms of perception. The former would be viewed as quite-nearly an insult, while the latter is really nothing more than the obvious and common sense without the cutting edge of appearing to downgrade the other QB.
I still think that you are reaching. I scour the internet daily for Browns tidbits, and I don't recall anything of the sort that you mention. I vaguely recall something on the Edwards side, but absolutely nothing on the Winslow side. I have no sources on the team, and I don't know if my internet persuing is as comprehensive as yours, but I still think this is conjecture unless you can cite something.
I also agree with Kardiac about Winslow's interview on NFL Network. He could have easily supported Anderson's bid to start without insulting Quinn with the right verbage, but he was trying to ignore the question like the plague. As a matter of fact, he looked quite uncomfortable. Something along the lines of 'DA has earned the starter's job for this year, but we also know Quinn is capable of coming in and leading us as well. Either guy can get the job done, but DA and the receivers want to finish what we started.'
I think if he had said something like that, it would support your claim.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but if you are trying to connect the dots on your own or taking Kirwan's word for it, I'd like to see all the evidence you are using to come to your conclusion.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Toad, Got to call BS on two of your points: Quote:
Edwards and Winslow have both been politicing for Anderson.
You don't know that. You are speculating based on public statements that have been very vanilla as well as statements based on speculation from national media. Sorry but truth doesn't work that way. I instruct the reading members of this board to strike your comment from the record. 
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Now what he's wrong on is that Anderson, if good, will ride out the three-year deal. One way or another, Anderson doesn't get to that third year as a Brown.
Here's a doozy. Why doesn't Anderson get to that third year as a Brown one way or another? You can't with a straight face tell me that if DA significantly improves his play and is firmly in the conversation with Brady, Manning, Roethlisberger and Palmer as the best QB in the AFC.....that he's then going to be traded?!? Are you crazy?
If that happens Quinn will never smell the field for better or for worse and he'll be the one traded.
Do I think that's going to happen? No.
Do I think that scenario is possible? It's possible.
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Here's a doozy. Why doesn't Anderson get to that third year as a Brown one way or another?
I misread this statement the first time. I was thinking Toad was saying he wouldn't finish out this contract. Meaning he would be traded or signed to a new long term deal.
#gmstrong
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Hehehe......If you believe nothing else that I ever say, trust me when I say that I never...and I mean NEVER....give anyone in the media carte blanche when it comes to unsubstantiated stories  I don't trust anyone in the media as far as I can throw'em, so if I make a statement that these guys have supported Anderson, it's most-likely true (I don't say 100% lock because like all people, I confuse things from time to time). In this case, I did take a few minutes to try and find the things I recall. I can't find'em. Isn't the first time. It doesn't help that many of the Edwards interviews are now gone.
So, for the sake of arguement, let's go with "Toad's losing his marbles and is talking out of one of his many arses." Look at this from a common sense standpoint. If you were Edwards or Winslow, would you be happy if Quinn was named the starter after putting up career numbers with Anderson under center? That'd directly mess with their money, and both players are known for not hiding their opinions. Sure, they want to win, but they want personal glory and the money that goes with big numbers. Hell, even offensive linemen have gotten into a tizzy over things like this. Remember when Faneca said he was decidedly not excited when Rottenburger was named the starter? Same thing applies, but x10 because receivers have their money tied up in the performance of the QB's gettin' them the ball.
Truthfully, I think what Winslow didn't say and how he didn't say it is just as important as anything he could have said. As you noted, he looked downright uncomfortable.......saying absolutely nothing. That should tell you all you need to know 
So am I connecting the dots as well as going by what I remember? Yes. I don't think there's anything wrong with connecting the dots when it's based on common sense.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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So am I connecting the dots as well as going by what I remember? Yes. I don't think there's anything wrong with connecting the dots when it's based on common sense.
There's the rub. I see common sense working in either direction in this case...
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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A few points and a question:
---Toad, when you say DA won't ever see the 3rd of the contract, you are including that either he falls on his ass or he plays well enough that we renegotiate him before the third year and sign him long-term? Right? I assume you are not saying that DA is gone no matter what in year 3, right?
--Racer, there is a poster on here who has provided me w/reliable information over the years. He says the cap hit would be seven million this year and it will be paid before the draft. I wish he would chime in here. *L* I do have to add that the second year numbers are not very gaudy and if DA doesn't perform well this year, he's gone.
--Take this for what it's worth. Some will believe me, some won't. I ain't gonna argue about it though. I have heard that the players do indeed favor DA. In fact, they are solidly behind him.
--Some of you want to question Kirwin's comments and also question Toad. That is your focus. I ain't asking you to take what either says as gospel, but read the entire article. Contemplate what the article is saying as a whole.
Combine Lewis' and Kirwin's comments. Then, think about what Savage said about DA before he signed him. Think back to the comments he made in the chapel of that little town. Thing about his comments after he signed him. Think of the dollars. Think about how much the team improved from last year and even from game one of this year. Did that look like the same offense in game one as the rest of the season? Think about the near-record numbers. Think about how people are respecting the Browns nationwide. Not just reporters, but other coaches and NFL people. Hell, Kirwin was a GM w/the Jets. Think about Savage making moves to win in 2008.
Put it all together. Forget for a minute the bitching of the fans on this board. Forget about wanting to see your favorite succeed. Think logically. Put it all together and tell me what conclusion you can come up with.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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What did these guys do with fry under center?
Hell yes, they want DA!
There was alot more involved to the turnaround than just DA, but these guys have bonded, and they learned how to win. The last thing they want to do is replace something that works for a basically unproven commodity.
If it makes you feel any better, I remember interviews with both guys saying they wanted DA back and supporting him. It was just before free agency and the speculatuion was DA would be gone. For them to say anything else at that time would have been throwing DA under the bus.
On a side note...I love the fact that Winslow and Edwards seem to say the right things these days. I don't know if it's RAC's influence (which I like to believe) or if they are just maturing or perhaps it's just cause we were winning. Don't matter...I like it.
"Nobody in football should be called a genius. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein" ~Joe Theismann~
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You know for a fact that my questioning of Toad has nothing to do with me wanting to see Quinn play and succeed. I know your question was directed at many, not just me, but I'm one of the ones that has been responding to Toad. I want something factual to back up his claims that Edwards and Winslow are backing DA.
I am singularly focused on that one tidbit because I'm not necessarily buying it, and you know that DA has kind of won me over.
I don't like opinions stated as fact even if people are 'just connecting the dots'. It irks me to no end. Most people on this board who can't think for themselves will take that information and run with it.
And from what I can tell, Kirwan was speculating or making an educated guess as was Toad. I have no problem with that, but I don't want it to be sold as fact. I want proof that it's a fact because I - like many on here - want as much information about the intimate details of what's really going on behind closed doors. I feel us as fans are really in the dark about the true feelings of the FO and players, and I am thirsty for any knowledge that would help shed light on how this whole thing may turn out.
Conjecture doesn't get me there although I know we as fans and posters need to make educated guesses. Once again, that's fine with me...I just don't want it to come across as fact unless we know that it is.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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---Toad, when you say DA won't ever see the 3rd of the contract, you are including that either he falls on his ass or he plays well enough that we renegotiate him before the third year and sign him long-term? Right? I assume you are not saying that DA is gone no matter what in year 3, right?
I know how much you love the contactual side of the game so I'll resist going all numbers-crunchin' on ya (which is probably safer for me as well *L*).
Much like The Stallworth deal, the surface numbers of Anderson's entire contract are pretty much window dressing. There are still conflicting reports out there as to the exact numbers of the deal and when certain parts of his initial singing bonus are to be paid (no, I refuse to go there *L*). However, this much is a certainty, within a few dollars: Anderson is due a salary of $7.45 million in 2010. It's also on Rotoworld that he's to receive an additional $2 million as a roster bonus. Even if that roster bonus doesn't exist, that $7.45 million salary hit is tough to handle, even more so when the cap figure includes the pro-rated portion of the signing bonuses.
(crap, I guess I went there afterall doh!)
Even in the second year, he's to get a $5 million roster bonus matched to a $1.45 million salary.
So yeah Vers, here's why I say he won't see that 3rd year (I know I could have simply said "yes" to you, but someone would have asked why, and it would have had to be explained anyway.):
If Anderson flops in '08, Quinn gets the gig and Anderson becomes a high-priced insurance policy and is cut after '09. There's no way you pay Anderson more than $7 million to be a backup. Hell, it's hard to stomach paying him $6.45 million to be a backup in '09 The alternative is that he's traded after '09. So why not the 3rd year? Because if Anderson succeeds, it makes no sense to go into his walk-year without a contract. If we're going to pay him big bucks to remain as the starter, we're far better served locking him down for the longhaul while creating cap space.
For that one person who didn't quite catch how Anderson's contract was laid out, it's essentially a one-year deal with protection for the Browns in year 2. The odds are long that he'll see the 2nd year of the contract because of the cap hit of roughly $8.5 million, but possible. It's impossible to imagine a scenario where that 3rd year is in play at a cap hit of virtually $12 million dollars.
Now, on a side note, the so-called "$7 million dollar cap hit" issue.
It's been reported that such a number was his signing bonus. The OBR reported that his SB is actually split-up into two payments, one due next year. This is where things get sticky, simply because we don't know FOR SURE how the contract is laid out.
If he's been given that SB, it all accelerates to the current year's cap if he's traded.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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...I love the fact that Winslow and Edwards seem to say the right things these days. I don't know if it's RAC's influence (which I like to believe) or if they are just maturing or perhaps it's just cause we were winning.
Winning cures a lot of things.
Tougher schedule this coming year. If we start losing we'd see how 'mature' their mouths are. Mind you, the last thing I'd hope for would be for us to lose...but I just don't think BE & Evil Kaneeval have reached the maturity level that a Joe Thomas has attained. (the man went fishing with his dad like he always did instead of putting himself in the spotlight - I just have to root for that guy with all my might)
![[Linked Image from members.cox.net]](http://members.cox.net/flyinc5/smallsigpics/frcburnout.gif) AL 29 76 14 R_K
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Rish, I can't help you then.
Like I said before..........put all the information together and come up w/your own conclusion. I think it is pretty obvious, but that's just me. Perhaps you will come to different conclusion?
Toad: Thanks. I get some parts and some parts are cloudy. But, I'm not all that smart.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Rish, I can't help you then.
I'm a lost cause... 
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Like I said before..........put all the information together and come up w/your own conclusion. I think it is pretty obvious, but that's just me. Perhaps you will come to different conclusion?
Depends on what question you are trying to answer. You already know we agree on the messages being sent from the front office on the DA vs. Quinn debate. I am putting two and two together on that one in addition to doing my own research.
But what the FO office wants and the players want could be two different things. On the surface, that statement seems idiotic since the whole organization wants to win. But there have been many occasions where the players and the FO haven't seen eye to eye.
I've done the math - and I am good at math - and I just haven't seen any equation yield the answer that Winslow and/or Edwards specifically want DA to be the starter. Unless they said that to Kirwan himself, that's irresponsible journalism, IMO.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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No problem, big guy.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Racer, there is a poster on here who has provided me w/reliable information over the years. He says the cap hit would be seven million this year and it will be paid before the draft. I wish he would chime in here.
i'll take your word for it...i don't think your one to make stuff up....
if that is the case i think that he definetly is here for next year...
i think the plan all along was to further evaluate anderson, and play quinn if anderson struggles...
the bottom line is you don't get rid of a successful player just because you can....if we dumped anderson....or let him get away, then it sends a bad message to the locker-room.....they want to win, and they feel anderson is a big part of that.
if anderson did get away and we won with quinn then it wouldn't matter in the least imo....but nobody knows for sure.....we still have that 'might be great' tag hanging over them both...
if anderson does great, then we are winning and everyone is happy.....if anderson struggles, then we move to quinn...
if we win with quinn then everyone will be happy....if he sucks too then we are in big trouble either way...
if phil does it that way he will have the team behind him....the other way is risking the big 'what if'....
part of my original thinking was based off the idea that da was getting his cash after the draft..why would they do that?
then you had the rumors of the dallas trade with the phins....if i was a general manager i would want teams calling me with offers for my players....not let anothe team, for lack of a better term....'flip' my player for something more...
i guess its just me thinking savage has some huge move up his sleeve, and wants the phins calling him....would you risk trading a good qb, if you think you have another good qb on the roster....if it landed you a stud backer or rb?
thats a question that has to have crossed his mind.....
anyway i think the cash nullifies any trade so its a moot point...
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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Quote: Quote:
Racer, there is a poster on here who has provided me w/reliable information over the years. He says the cap hit would be seven million this year and it will be paid before the draft. I wish he would chime in here.
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I'll take your word for it...i don't think your one to make stuff up....
if that is the case i think that he definetly is here for next year...
Vers...Slight correction...
This info comes from someone who has SEEN Anderson's contract...
7M Signing Bonus...3.5M paid April 15th...BEFORE THE DRAFT...
The other 3.5M is paid in January of 2009...
If traded...The NFL is handling ALL 7M as a SB and it will ACCELERATE to the 2008 cap...
Anderson WILL NOT BE TRADED GUYS & GALS...
And Toad is definitely talking about Anderson NOT seeing the 3rd year due to cap hits in 2010...IF he's still here he will have a much longer term contract in hand at much bigger bucks...More cap friendly than the nearly 12M hit he is in 2010 as of now...
Hell...He's nearly a 9M hit in 2009...
Go Browns!!!
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Rish, I can't help you then.
Like I said before..........put all the information together and come up w/your own conclusion. I think it is pretty obvious, but that's just me. Perhaps you will come to different conclusion?
Toad: Thanks. I get some parts and some parts are cloudy. But, I'm not all that smart.
The only problem with this whole Anderson gig is this...
DA better grow some HUGE ones this offseason...Cause he's gonna need em' at the Stadium this year...
Every single time he throws a bad toss he's gonna hear it loud...If he throws 2 picks fairly quickly in any game he's gonna hear the Quinn chants...Hopefully he doesn't collapse from it...Cause it's gonna happen...It's way too split right now in the fan base...
After talking with you about this...I PRAY that Anderson improves on the things that are creating this fan base split...Cause if he does...He's our LONG TERM QB...And Quinn will be gone because NO WAY Condon lets him stay here and miss all those escalators in his contract...
THAT is what would be BEST for this team...Anderson succeeding...And inking a long 6-7 year deal next off season...We will have a big arm QB with 2 full seasons of starting under his belt...And if we can KEEP Chudzinski around for a few years...This Offense will only get better...
There's a certain poster here that believes Quinn will BLOW AWAY Anderson in camp...I don't see it happening...Quinn's not that damn good...This ain't like Manning versus Frye...
For everything Anderson does that relates to bone headed...We KNOW the dude can put up some serious numbers on the only thing that counts...THE SCOREBOARD...And with the defensive improvements that are coming in the next 2 years...We won't need 35 points to win anymore...
Go Browns!!!
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j/c
I have read every post to this thread so far, and have seen quite a few well thought out replies and responses. Some tainted with the Pro BQ spin, but most well thought out and pretty darned fair.
I don't think Toad is making much of a reach at all, while I conceed I haven't seen or heard anything to confirm or refute his statement.
It's seems to me to be a pretty fair assumption to think or believe that BE and K2 would want DA above BQ, not a reach at all, even if not publicly said.
I have said that I won't be a party to the who should start crowd, and I won't just a comment on the situation as I see it then I will crawl back into my hole.
To me the single most important thing that needs to come out of all of this is the Browns need to find their Franchise QB, be that DA, be that BQ, I don't care, MY EYE IS ON THE BALL, and the Ball is a Franchise QB, from whatever quarter that may come from I do not care. I only care that we find that guy from the 2 possiblities we have.
I see all kinds of posts:
We paid to high a price for BQ not to play him. Pure BS if you keep your eye on the ball.
BQ is the better QB: Never have understood this one sense nobody has seen BQ play more then 10 snaps.
DA has hit his ceiling: Never saw a 1st year starter that wasn't better in his 2nd and 3rd year, in fact drafted QB's back in the day didn't even get a wiff until their 2nd or 3rd year, and once given a chance they where afforded more then just one season as a starter, becuase most teams understood that it took more then a season for a QB to hit his ceiling. Another big reach, IMHO
I think its more then fair to say that the amount of wiggle room DA will be afforded due to BQ standing behind him will be short on time if he faulters out of the gate.
The contract thing is meaningless at this point and from where I sit the Browns are in line with what most teams pay Franchise QB's, the kicker is the Browns have 2 possible Franchise guys while most teams have just 1, with no possible replacement due to injury.
This thing will sort itself out, and hopefully the Browns will come out the winner and find the Ball. Who that turns out to be is meaningless, and in my view the most important thing is to go forward with what we have and allow it to sort itself out. The Browns must make dead certain they don't ship the wrong guy out of town only to regret it later...
JMHO
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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There's a certain poster here that believes Quinn will BLOW AWAY Anderson in camp...I don't see it happening...Quinn's not that damn good...This ain't like Manning versus Frye...
Training camp is a different animal..ba-lee-dat...  DA didn't outplay Frye in TC but outplayed him when he was inserted into the lineup after game 2...
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I don't think Toad is making much of a reach at all, while I conceed I haven't seen or heard anything to confirm or refute his statement.
It's seems to me to be a pretty fair assumption to think or believe that BE and K2 would want DA above BQ, not a reach at all, even if not publicly said.
 I don't think Toad is reaching either. Some of you are missing the point that Rishuz and I are making. It's not that we don't believe what Kirwan (and Toad) are claiming, it's that we want proof rather than assumptions based on "common sense". Yes, it is perfectly logical to rationalize that the players want DA to be the guy. This has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with who we might personally feel should be the guy. But the problem is the making of assumptions without any real hard evidence and, as has been pointed out, there may never be any evidence because certain players know better than to take sides and express such feelings to the media. So until we know for sure, I feel its better to assume nothing about how the players feel.
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thanks for the info.....well it amounts to the same thing in the end....
thats a far cry from what we originally heard that the bonus was payable after the draft...that was odd imo, and made me think something was up....
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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Every single time he throws a bad toss he's gonna hear it loud...If he throws 2 picks fairly quickly in any game he's gonna hear the Quinn chants...Hopefully he doesn't collapse from it...Cause it's gonna happen...It's way too split right now in the fan base...
Heck, this is going to happen in preseason. BQ will get some snaps in preseason games, and when comes in, the crowd is going to go wild. You know it's going to happen. Have you ever seen another team where the FO vehemently insisted one guy was the starting QB while a great majority of the fan base clearly wanted another guy? It's an odd situation, for sure.
I do think BQ is a better quarterback than DA, but I do think DA will start and if/when he struggles he'll eat pine. The question is...how badly will he have to struggle and how long a leash is he on? If he's clearly outshined in preseason, does it matter?
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Yes, it is perfectly logical to rationalize that the players want DA to be the guy
its not a rationalization...its a fact.....da is the guy right now...he's the incumbent starter...that can't be spun any other way....
the bottom line is the players want to win....they will back whoever gets wins.....
if you remember back when we drafted bq, alot of comments by players were talking up quinn, without necessasarily throwning frye under the bus...anderson wasen't even in the picture at that point....they all thought it was just a matter of time until quinn was in there...they thought he was gonna deliver wins...
frye got traded and anderson came in and lit it up....all the love so to speak switched to anderson....
these moves are all about momentum....we are a team on the rise....we won alot of games....anderson was a part of that...nobody wants to mess that up...that would upset the players and send a bad message...
look at when butch cut a bunch of vets....the players didn't like it...nobody wants to be on a rebuilding team....look at the bengals....johnson wants out because they aren't winning....
winslow and edwards have been quiet cause we are winning....don't know if that would still happen if we stunk it up.....especially if we went with quinn and he struggled....
anderson deserves his chance....he gets to prove he's a quality starter, or a flash in the pan....if he's a quality starter then thats great....we have a quality starter, we resign him long term and move on....if he's a flash in the pan, then we move to quinn and see what he's got...
now i understand the flip side of this....quinn could be just as good, or better than anderson...quinn could come in and light it up, and we would all forget about anderson pretty quick.....but he also could be worse than anderson, and bust...if that were to happen then we would have anderson, who would have shattered confidence because we wen't with quinn, and a bust in quinn......zero qb's....
its even worse if we trade him....if we choose wrong....
i also read a rumor...so take this with a grain of salt..that dallas might have traded him to the ravens...that would have sucked....by locking him up for 1 more year, we force the ravens to get a qb in the draft, and they probably will have to commit to him, instead of picking up a vet like anderson....
time will tell, but i think savage is handling a slippery situation pretty well....
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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Very good point. I think we'll get a good look a BQ this preseason. We barely got to see what he can do AT ALL last year. Very few snaps in the preseason and even fewer in the regular season. It's a good thing because it meant we were doing well. I'm very interested in seeing what he can do this upcoming preseason... perhaps the coaches and FO are too.
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Very good point. I think we'll get a good look a BQ this preseason. We barely got to see what he can do AT ALL last year. Very few snaps in the preseason and even fewer in the regular season. It's a good thing because it meant we were doing well. I'm very interested in seeing what he can do this upcoming preseason... perhaps the coaches and FO are too.
even if he did well in preseason.. they would say he did well against 2nd and 3rd stringers.. 
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j/c
Kirwan didn't mention it, but I'd be willing to bet the OL is happy DA is still back there.
"Nobody in football should be called a genius. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein" ~Joe Theismann~
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That was a nice long well-presented response to my post. Unfortunately, in all of that, you still completely missed the point.
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i missed your point, like quincy morgan catching a football huh......lol
i'll assume your point was proof...without it it means little, with it, it means more....
my point was that da is the starter....players like winslow and be did well with him as the starter...we won some games...everyone is upbeat...
the only real proof that we have is da is the starter...we resigned him, and commited to him for at least a year....
thats proof right there....if they (meaning the fo) didn't think da could play they would have let him go, and took the picks...
that could have possibly ticked off some players that think he's a big part of their winning...nobody wants to risk a step back...
i doubt you'll get that in writing...but in the end it doesn't matter if its speculation, a guess, the truth, or hearsay...
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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i missed your point, like quincy morgan catching a football huh......lol
Yeah, something like that. 
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i'll take your word for it...i don't think your one to make stuff up....
Thanks racer, that was a cool thing to say.
However, I am taking the word of someone who did see the contract. I haven't seen it. I trust the guy.
I think DnD's post explained it a lot better than I did.
The one thing I do know is that the players do favor DA. Of course, you'll have to take my word on that one. *L*
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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The one thing I do know is that the players do favor DA. Of course, you'll have to take my word on that one. *L*
Specifically Winslow and Edwards, or were you told in just a general 'yeah, the players and/or OL really like and want DA to be the starter'?
I know you've mentioned you were told specifically by someone on the team that the players really like DA. That's a blanket statement that could just be someone's read on the situation but may not necessarily include everyone.
I have no doubt that DA has his supporters on the team. It would be unrealistic to think otherwise so that's no big revelation. I am, however, interested in what a select few specifically think. If you have that information, please share.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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The only problem with this whole Anderson gig is this...
DA better grow some HUGE ones this offseason...Cause he's gonna need em' at the Stadium this year...
Every single time he throws a bad toss he's gonna hear it loud...If he throws 2 picks fairly quickly in any game he's gonna hear the Quinn chants...Hopefully he doesn't collapse from it...Cause it's gonna happen...It's way too split right now in the fan base...
I agree. The majority of fans seem to prefer BQ. They are a vocal bunch. They are going to be loud and will cause some problems. Likewise, the media seems to want BQ to be the guy. They will make noise too, and more fans will follow.
Trouble is..............all QBs make mistakes every game. Yes, all QBs. Look at Manning.......he threw six picks against SD in the regular season game. Brady didn't look all that impressive in the Super Bowl.
Believe me, DA will continue to make mistakes. He takes some chances and he is still learning the position. The fans and media will have plenty of ammunition. Me.........I look at the bottom line. I can live w/some mistakes if the guy makes more plays than mistakes; moves the offense, puts up points; and wins games.
Many of you know how I hated Timid. However, I remember a game against New Orleans where he threw three interceptions and even some of his fans berated him. I wrote that I thought he played well. My thinking was that he moved the team and made a lot of plays that game. His good plays offset the bad.
I've never been a fan of a QB who simply manages the game. You have to make plays. You have to pressure the defense, which in turn, opens up things for other guys........such as the running backs. It's great to be both a playmaker and a game manager, but there aren't many Joe Montanas out there.
All QBs throw inaccurate passes and make bad decisions. I think DA's mistakes have been--and will be--magnified because people want BQ in there. It's not fair. It's not right. But, that is the the way it is.
Post note: Someone mentioned that Frye was the choice of the players last year and that DA didn't do anything during the preseason. Well, DA did look bad in the preseason, but I do know that the players were still behind him. I didn't get it at the time. I thought DA sucked. Turns out they were right and DA made me eat my words.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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The main group is the offensive line. I have heard, but not directly, that Edwards is a big fan of DA because he can stretch the field and that K2 really loves the relationship, understanding, and timing they have. But again, that was not directly. One thing for sure, the OL thinks the world of DA..........and they did the year before too, even before DA had his big year.
Now...........this is just my word. Thus, if people don't want to believe me.......I understand and no hard feelings.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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I really need to get some sources....
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I think the fans will support any QB that wins. I don't doubt that, being basically a hometown boy, that BQ has more fans here than he would, say, in Detroit. But I don't think that it's quite the vast majority that you indicate. This board is hardly an indicator of anything resembling the real world.
Personally, I have no problem with DA being the QB. I am wary of his ability (or lack thereof) to improve his play. I believe that if we have a winning record this year he most probably will be our QB for the next half dozen years at least. And if we do win Brady Quinn will be traded at the end of the year. But nothing will happen until the 2008 season is in the books.
But I would also like to add that having watched what we've gone through regarding the coaching staff's evaluations of our QB's in the last 2 years I am less than enamored with their ability to reasonably evaluate said QB's before the regular season starts. Preseason evaluations of our QB's seem to be no better than using a dart board. And that worries me.
On thing is sure. This season will be very interesting.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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I think the fans will support any QB that wins.
I don't for a second. We won 7 of 8 at home yet I heard a ton of Brady chants.
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This board is hardly an indicator of anything resembling the real world.
This may be true when it comes to many things, but not when it comes to DA and Quinn. All of last year at the games I went to the amount of fans clamouring for Quinn was huge. Listento local sports radio and you here the same thing.
The old saying that the backup QB is always the most popular player rings true in Cleveland. Considering Quinn was a high draft pick and local kid helps explain a lot of it.
#gmstrong
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I don't for a second. You're wrong...... Chants at a game hardly count as an accurate barometer. 10,000 people at a game can start quite a ruckus. But those people are only about 14% of the crowd. Hardly a majority. Just a large group of loud mouths. And undoubtedly a good percentage of them are drunk. (At a Browns game? NO!!!!  ) Sorry, I stand by my statement. DA wins and he'll be fine. Lose and Brady gets his chance. And really....isn't that how it should be?
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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I look at the bottom line. I can live w/some mistakes if the guy makes more plays than mistakes; moves the offense, puts up points; and wins games.
Which is what a few of us (I'm thinking of guys like me and ballpeen, there probabl;y were others) said as the 2007 season progressed... yes, he makes God-awful throws (screen passes in the frikkin dirt, jesus...), but he put points on the board and won football games.
Yes he had a lot of help from the OL, Jamal, KW2 and Braylon, but the fact is we had a QB who had a very good year.
Can BQ match it or surpass it? Maybe. Maybe not.
Can DA improve his accuracy? Maybe a bit, but as I've said 20 times... he might be just a wacky QB: does great things, does terribly bad things.
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....does terribly bad things.
Charlie Frye did "terribly" bad things... Anderson is no where close to what Frye threw in the air...
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The main group is the offensive line. I have heard, but not directly, that Edwards is a big fan of DA because he can stretch the field and that K2 really loves the relationship, understanding, and timing they have. But again, that was not directly. One thing for sure, the OL thinks the world of DA..........and they did the year before too, even before DA had his big year.
Now...........this is just my word. Thus, if people don't want to believe me.......I understand and no hard feelings.
That's good info, you liar.
LOL...just joking, my man.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Charlie Frye did "terribly" bad things... Anderson is no where close to what Frye threw in the air...
He was when he played behind the line Frye had in '06 which ened with himself getting injured after he threw 8 interceptions while playing in 5 games, starting 3 if them.
Our new and improved offensive line, (I still can't believe it happened so fast), has done more for the Browns QB's than can be appreciated. Now, regardless of who's behind center, they at least stand a fighting chance. That was not true for any of our QB's before 2007.
#gmstrong
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Savage on Upping Anderson's Offer
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