DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Cavs..how far will they go in the Playoffs?

excl gets it...

i love the whole "the cavs didn't try hard enough to get michael redd! they didn't pick him up at the airport! they only sent eric snow! they didn't take him to a nice enough restaurant!"

seriously, do people really believe all of that..

i've heard so many different reasons for redd re-signing with the bucks, that he liked milwaukee, that he liked the direction of the team (lolz), that he wanted to show loyalty to a team that took a chance on him in the second round

but folks, we all know what it boiled down to, the 20 million extra that milwaukee was allowed to offer (as mentioned in the cba, pointed out by excl)

now, we could easily get michael redd next year, word is, is that he is not happy in milwaukee, and that his teammates somewhat don't like playing with him...

he's not the first guy i'd like to have, but he is a significant player... i think we could swap wally for him almost straight up, we made need to add a little bit of money, but that could be a guy...

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would you rather duck out in the first round, or have a horrible year and a shot at the best player coming into the draft? i'd take the latter...

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To be honest, I am not sure how much Rose or Beasley would change this team. As much as I hate saying it, as long as Mike Brown is the coach, this team is not a team that is going to win 55-60 games in a season, ever. Will we win around 50 every year, sure, but when you have the best player in the game on your side, that is not good enough. Brown just does not get it, and the players are not responding. I would be willing to bet that when you see LB and DJ sitting next to each other on the bench, they sit there and rip Brown apart. Bottom line is that this team does not play with urgency during the regular season. Sure, its easy to respond and play intense and try hard during the postseason, but its time to take the next step and become a team that is focused from the onset.

i don't think brown gets a fair shake, everyone rags on the offense, but how can you have an offense when you have no point guard?

hughes couldn't run the point, brown just played the numbers, because for whatever reason we won games with him at the point, even though he racked up a crappy amount of assists...

west is still learning, and before hughes it was snow...

it is really hard to run an offense without a floor general... i think we're stuck in that position between having someone else run the point, and lebron getting frustrated because no one can do it right, so he takes over... we need a guy who there are no doubts at all can run this team, to the point where lebron doesn't need to handle the ball...

i don't mind the lebron and 4 offense... where you just iso lebron, spread the floor, and let him do his thing, but less of that is more in the long run...

lebron can do it, but then who plays the 3, sasha? i guess wally can play the 3, but he isn't all that great getting to the hole, and tends to miss those shots around the basket...

speaking of, hey sasha, how about waking up and playing some basketball?

i'm kinda mad we didn't go after a sam casell, who probably would have fit in pretty good with this team...

The trade was the right move? Gett ng rid of below average players for below average players? The trade was made in haste, you guys can polish the turd forever. The trade made no sense, we got older, slower, and took away our 2 best defensive players.

Would the Cavs gone any further with the previous bunch? Possibly but unlikley, Gooden and Hughes are far more tradable with their deals+talent than the current guys.

and you guys really think that Boobie is a player that can really be the #2 option for the Cavs? good role player and shooter, they need a PG and Mike Bibby or Jason Kidd completely changes this team and lets LeBron play one position instead of two.

Just how is Danny gonna pry any talent off other teams with trash, yes expiring contracts make it easy to move players but the other team still wants talent in return.

If this isn't Ferry's fault then its Lebrons for putting ridiculous pressure on the front office. Common sense says James didn't want Hughes in here, another example of Ferry over reacting to media and the fans rather than James.

Only person James said much about is Kidd, James knows whats needed on this team.

these teams are not going to want "talent" in return

expiring deals is good enough...

cap space is always going to be at a premium

it's like draft picks in the nfl

seriously dude, you know nothing about the nba.

West has the potential to be that guy, it has nothing to do with him being new, and has everything to do with him being not aggressive and confident enough.

You don't need a "floor general" when you have LBJ. What you need is a guy who will look to create and go to the rim. There are way too many times that he just looks for LBJ first, rather than what opportunities he has for himself. There are also plenty of times that West has a crease and then probes instead of going to the rack and either looking to draw contact and/or pass out for a good look. I am serious when I say draw contact as he is a very athletic kid that can hang in the air after contact. The man needs to believe in himself more than he does. He has the tools, it's just a matter of being confident and believing in them.

i agree..

but a floor general is something they need, a guy who can run the offense, and take pressure off lebron, because i believe lebron can really do a lot of damage off the ball, where it's very difficult to double team a guy

but i really like west, he has a great first step, a nice move to the basket, he's tough, he's not a great defender, but he's a willing defender (and that is all you need with the kind of defensive system mike brown runs)

he has a decent shot, and best of all, he is at his best when he pushes the ball, he just needs more confidence, more time with this team, and to be more agressive

when i say floor general, i mean a true point guard, i believe every team needs one, we made the finals without one, but were beaten by a team with one, tony parker may not be mentioned with chris paul and steve nash, but he constantly has the ball in his hands, and seems to always make the right play

playoffmaker is exactly right, took the words right out of my mouth.

And I dont blame West too much ofr not coming out of the gate aggresive, coming into a new team and starting right away as the PG, Over the past week and a half we have seen what this kid is capable of when he takes charge, lets hope he keeps it up.

I see what you are saying, and you are right. I will still argue that Delonte can be that guy, and with the RIGHT COACHING should be that guy. Like you said, its about making the right decisions, and in this case, being more aggressive is part of those decisions.

Sometimes guys either have it (mental makeup to be a leader), or they dont, and I am hoping (more like praying) that it just takes the time, like you say, for it to come out (ex. Chauncey Billups). My fear is that with Mike Brown, it might not come out. Hope I am wrong. Anyhow, should be interesting tonite as we try to lock up the 4 seed. That, and for us out of towners, Tribe in HD on ESPN vs NYjr.

i think, at worst, delonte could be a very very solid bench point guard...

but he has shown potential of being a starting point guard, and a pretty good one...

Your not going to get a superstar PG with just expiring deals alone, yes we can get middle of the road talent or an over hill player, but not a primed stud. We desperatley need a star PG that can run the show and allow LeBron to truly play the wing. Until we get that player the great teams will take James out of it.

Teams are only gonna give up players they feel aren't worth the money theyre being paid. We won't get the type of player we need just off expiring contracts from duds. Teams want cap space to buy free agents, if the team already has a great player they aren't gonna dump him fopr cap space to get another great player.

The Nets didn't give Kidd away for just expiring deals, they got tons of picks and a young potential PG.

I know Boobie is the Cavs little pet, because he's their big second round hit, they love to sell he's James best friend and he is. But there is no way James would say no if managment wanted to move him for Kidd.

Say the Cavs give up thier 1st's for 2 season's, they give up Boobie, Gooden, Brown, and Newble in a 3 way trade for Jason Kidd. The Cavs are legit contenders for the next 2 seasons. Now they can go dump those expiring deals and get another mid talent bigman.

Instead the Cavs will once again get more average players, and hold on the hope that Boobie can morph into a PG. Unfortuatley we have to win now, in the next 2 seasons.


Unless something changes fast at the top of the Cavs organization, James will be in New York, you can blame it on whoever you want to. But the Cavs have made bad moves consistently since the James pick, I'd love to believe the "one step back, two steps foward" crap but I see no history of the Cavs managment doing anything constructive beside re-signing Z.

Now the Cavs have holes at SG, PG, and PF, rather than just PG before the trade.


Bottom line, how many year into the James area? The Cavs still only have 2 building blocks, James and Z(who is nearing the end), they have not added one other staple player. We keep getting players that other teams don't want and expect them to become superstars. Too bad this isn't baseball or football where you can win without superstars.

Maybe I am wrong, but the Cavs sure havent shown any evidence of that yet.

again, wrong.

the cavs don't need to send talent to bring in a good player, most teams would glady take the cap relief going into the new season...

sometimes, in order to beat out another team, you'll have to give up talent, or take an additional player with a crappy contract... (ie the cavs having to take brian cardinal in that almost-happened mike miller deal)

as much as i love jason kidd, his impact in dallas didn't really jolt them like they expected... who's to say that would have worked in cleveland, and now that he's been playing significant basketball out west, he's shown signs of being too slow to guard some of the better perimeter players in this league, something that he was one of the best at.

actually the only trade that's really taken off is the gasol deal, which by the way, was the lakers giving up nothing for pau gasol (kwame brown and javaris crittenton, not exactly household names)

here's another deal where someone did't give up talent

bibby to the hawks for basically nothing, anthony johnson? shelden williams? lorenzen wright?

it just doesn't happen all the time, because it's difficult with the nba structure, and how you have to be almost exact with the salaries... but it does happen

you may have to outbid someone, and that is where the supposed "talent" comes in, but most teams in the nba would love the cap space the following year

again, you know nothing about the nba.

j/c

Wow, what a wild ending to the Cavs game! Bring on the Wiz!!!

seriously dude, that reminded me a ton of the baltimore game, the sixers were already in the locker room

devin brown knocked both of those down like they were nothing.

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seriously dude, that reminded me a ton of the baltimore game, the sixers were already in the locker room

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That was the first thing that came to my mind also.

The Cavs didn't have to make it that exciting but oh well, a win is a win and that was a big one.

??? Am I missing something? According the Courtside live and the cavs mainpage right now, we lost. So why are you excited???

LOL the Cavs are going to be the 5 seed in the playoffs..

Wizards in 5 in the first round. Wow the Cavs are tanking...

Lebron drove, got fouled (no call) had his shot blocked to Devin Brown who got fouled on the put back with no time left.... .2 was put back on the clock after a lengthy video review. Brown hit 2 free throws to win. It was the correct call.

LOL, wierd then cuz the Cavs site still shows a loss

Wait what is going on??

ESPN is saying that the Cavs lost and even updated the standings...

Granted it should have never came to that, still, it was exciting and we won, now its time to turn it up, hopefully they can.

Hopefully this is the turning point that this Cavs team so desperately needs.

The Cavs site still says a loss, but when you click on box score, it is updated to the win.

Heart Attack tonite, and now the indians are only up one

It really doesn't matter, this team has zero perimiter defense. If by some miracle they get out of round one, that is if they dont play Washington. Teams can get back into games or build leads extremly fast because of the ease of the outside shot.

Boston will smoke us because Delonte can't handle Rondo and Wally can't guard Ray Allen. You don't win with poor gaurds which we have.

We went to the finals last year because of our defense, It was ok giving up some defense to get some offense but we gave up defense, for age.

I can see them getting beat in round 1, but Labron wont go for that, so I do see them bowing out in the second round...

So does LeBron sit the last game to get as healed as possible for the playoffs?

I think he should. Rest anyone with an inkling of pain cuz we need to be healthy.

Might as well, they dont play a full 48 for games that matter.

IMO LB should not even dress. There is Zero reason for him to play. A good solid workout before the game with Chris Jent (his shooting coach) is all he should be doing tomorrow.

His back has been bugging him the last 3 weeks anyhow, so no reason to go on it in a game that means absolutely nothing.

web page

Rob Oller commentary: With playoffs near, Cavs offense remains a mess
Monday, April 14, 2008 3:05 AM
By Rob Oller

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

ASSOCIATED PRESS
Is the latest offensive strategy of Cavaliers coach Mike Brown as flawed as his previous ones?

CLEVELAND -- As NBA halftime shows go, "Quick Change" -- where a woman magically changes costumes in an instant -- is better than most.

From polka dot to stripes. From green velvet to blue satin. Even from brunette to blonde, the halftime performer in Quicken Loans Arena last night became a new creation with the wave of a hand.

The Cleveland Cavaliers could learn from such an act, because they need to change their look in a hurry. The playoffs begin Saturday, and this team has come down the stretch not on a roll but between two pieces of bread -- as chopped liver. They remain the No. 4 seed in the Eastern Conference for now, but have lost six of their past 10 games, including two losses to lowly Chicago, and yesterday struggled to defeat the road kill that is the Miami Heat, 84-76.

Their half-court offense is atrocious. The outside shooting is spotty. The defense is good but needs improving.

There still is time for the Cavaliers to pull it together, but the clock means nothing if the core problem cannot be solved. And when the core problem also happens to be the core solution, well, that's a puzzler.

The issue: LeBron James stops the ball. The NBA's leading scorer dribbles into the wings, where he becomes easier to defend while his teammates typically get caught up watching and wondering what to do next.

That's the way to play the Cavs -- even the Heat, owner of the NBA's worst record, knew that. On a whiteboard in the Miami locker room, the defensive instructions were scribbled in a simple message: Tilt the floor toward LeBron. Run two players at him when he dribbles to the side -- a bad habit that shrinks his space to maneuver -- and force him to either pass to the open man, drive through traffic or attempt a three-point shot.

None of those options are typically fruitful because A) to date, the Cavs have shown little ability to knock down open shots; B) fighting through traffic takes its toll on the body, as James' achy back can attest; and C) while James has improved his outside shooting since entering the league in 2004, he remains more streaky than consistent on the perimeter.

Watching James operate, one has to wonder whether he doesn't trust his teammates to score -- can't say I blame him -- or if coach Mike Brown's latest offensive strategy is as flawed as his previous ones. Before the season, Brown went to Europe and brought back a kick-and-drive system that was supposed to take pressure off James. But with two games remaining in the regular season, the half-court offense still resembles the dried up mess that could do nothing against San Antonio in last year's NBA Finals.

The problem, of course, is that James pretty much is the offense, so there is a sense of security -- or maybe false security? -- in having him handle the ball so often.

James understands the problem, even if he often contributes to it. He wants a reliable sidekick -- Larry Hughes failed in that role and was shipped to Chicago -- and would love to have a point guard whose main strength is as a distributor.

Neither of those is an immediate option, so Cleveland has a week to work the kinks out of an offense that hasn't clicked for seven months.

"We took a step forward today," James said after the game.

It sure beats a step backward, but in this case, appearances are not deceiving. Cleveland needs a magical change or risk going poof in the playoffs.

Rob Oller is a sports reporter for The Dispatch.

roller@dispatch.com

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It was great, I was pacing and then jumping up and down like a little kid, glad my girlfriend wasnt here to see that.

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yeah, i threw out a verbal tirade and rant that my girlfriend did hear when I thought we lost

That article is exactly why I don't think we'll beat Washington. There is no offensive plan and the other team knows it. If Z, Boobie or someone else appears to be hot early on....it will open the floor up for Lebron. If not, the rest of the night is painful to watch.

I think the Cavs can beat any team on any given night (the Lebron factor). However, I just don't see it happening in a 7 game series right now. Our Cavs look lost.