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Legend
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Legend
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You really need to come up with some better stuff, that's old.  I'm not smack talking.
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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I will try honney...promise 
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Legend
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Legend
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Agreed.. you could use that logic for what they had to overcome to get there... but losing when up 3-0? and not a close game in the bunch, they got spanked.
yebat' Putin
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1st String
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1st String
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The 02 playoffs for me. If Northcutt catches that pass or Butch Davis does not make Fozio go prevent and we win that game, the last 5 years are very different for our team.. I think losing that game took a lot of our team..
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Legend
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Legend
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the tribe had them down 3-1... not 3-0
and yeah, cc choked...
he did.. i don't hate him for it, but he did.
he choked in the entire playoffs, not one good solid start...
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Dude, sorry, but they choked. That salary issue thing is complete bunk. They beat the Yankees and had the Sox down 3-0. That excuse is weak. 
Totally agree. The Tribe choked, big time in that series.
![[Linked Image from i75.photobucket.com]](http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i302/lrhinkle/d5eaf0b9-e429-4211-b53f-b843bfcf6aa9_zps2ac17420.jpg) #gmstrong
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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They were down 3 games to 1. - The initial loss being to Josh Beckett, who the Red Sox recieved from the Marlins in a trade. The Red Sox were able to keep Beckett because they gave him a monster contract - like they do to many other All Stars from other teams.
When the Indians had the Red Sox down 3-1, they again lost to Josh Beckett in game 5. After game 5, they lost to Curt Schilling, - another All Star the Red Sox purchased from another team. After they lost game 6 to Curt Schilling, they lost to Dice-K - again, another proven All Star from another team.
I'm sorry but, when you are able to spend that much money on a pitching staff, and then even more money on your batting lineup (which includes Manny Ramirez, a proven All Star for Cleveland that Boston outbid for) you have put yourself on an uneven, unfair, plane when going against an opponent that hasn't spent as much as you. The solution to the problem would be to place the same salary cap limit on all teams. - That way it's an even playing field. You can't call what the Indians did choking, but, you can call it almost beating a team that was that had a ridiculously unfair advantage.
Try this - take a look at what the Indians spent on salary last year, then, try to make the Red Sox fit into that number. Of course you can't. So, take the best players from the Red Sox and assemble a team from Boston's players that would add up to a payroll number equal or less to that of the Indians. -You would lose at least three starting pitchers, and 3 hitters from their lineup. - Essentially, you'd have a team that was on a fair playing field going against the Indians, and losing easily.
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Anything and everything involving the name Modell.
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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I'll tell ya, that's what I could not believe out of the Tribe fans last year. Most on here were just like "oh well, we'll get 'em next year".
Well what else are we supposed to do? It sucked, but in the end it is just a game. Being a fan of all Cleveland sports you get to know "oh well, we'll get 'em next year" all to well 
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
I'll tell ya, that's what I could not believe out of the Tribe fans last year. Most on here were just like "oh well, we'll get 'em next year".
Well what else are we supposed to do? It sucked, but in the end it is just a game. Being a fan of all Cleveland sports you get to know "oh well, we'll get 'em next year" all to well
KING
i know...
some people act as if the fans can change the outcome of the game...
and muni...
i don't disagree that it's pretty unfair that boston and new york, and some of these other mega-market teams can load up on other people's talent, while teams like the indians, twins, a's, etc... have to build their teams the proper way...
but we still choked man... 3-1 lead with 2 cy young candidates waiting to pitch...
it happens man.
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Legend
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Legend
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Show me where I said it would change the outcome of anything. Nothing we talk about, cheer for, or bitch about changes anything. I just think as fans, this group just took that loss in stride and figured it would happen again for them this year. From what I see, that ain't lookin' so good. 
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Rookie
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Rookie
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I think the Fumble left me the most dissapointed....we were getting killed that game, then fought back and almost won...to lose in that way really stung...still does.
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Show me where I said it would change the outcome of anything. Nothing we talk about, cheer for, or bitch about changes anything. I just think as fans, this group just took that loss in stride and figured it would happen again for them this year. From what I see, that ain't lookin' so good.
SO like I said, what choice do we have but to take it in stride and hope for next season(this season) ? Last season didnt you take the Reds season in stride and hope for better next year? Did you have any other choice?
I will also agree that things arent looking good for this season, but we(Tribe fans) also know that at this point last season we never would have thought that we would be 1 game from World Series, so all we can do is have hope.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
SO like I said, what choice do we have but to take it in stride and hope for next season(this season) ?
I just expected to see more emotional responses. I would have had a fit it the Reds had been that close and lost. Of course, the Reds win when they go.
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Last season didnt you take the Reds season in stride and hope for better next year? Did you have any other choice?
Sometimes you stoop to such weak stuff when trying to make a point. When your team sucks and you are well aware that they suck it is not even close to the emotional thing I'm talking about in choking away a playoff. We've both rooted for losing teams long enough to get that.
I guess you guys are much more docile as Tribe fans than you are Browns fans. Maybe that's what I didn't get before.
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Legend
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Legend
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For me that is true.
If I had to put each on a scale and measure my passion as a percentage, the Browns are 100%....it can't get any higher....the Indians would rate 75%....I root for them all out but it isn't the end of the world when they lose a tough one tough I do feel depressed.....The Cavs......10%.....bandwagon fan all the way. If they lose, who cares...if they win...great for the town and all, but I really don't care...the NBA sucks.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Quote:
SO like I said, what choice do we have but to take it in stride and hope for next season(this season) ?
I just expected to see more emotional responses. I would have had a fit it the Reds had been that close and lost. Of course, the Reds win when they go.
Quote:
Last season didnt you take the Reds season in stride and hope for better next year? Did you have any other choice?
Sometimes you stoop to such weak stuff when trying to make a point. When your team sucks and you are well aware that they suck it is not even close to the emotional thing I'm talking about in choking away a playoff. We've both rooted for losing teams long enough to get that.
I guess you guys are much more docile as Tribe fans than you are Browns fans. Maybe that's what I didn't get before.
Does everything have to be a argument with you? I wasnt being hostile or stooping to anything. I am just saying getting all upset and flying off the handle isnt going to change anything so why put myself through that? You just have to accept the results of your season and move on. I am 34 and first started getting into The Browns and Cleveland sports at bout 6 years old, so say 1980 or so I was a Browns,Indians and OSU fan, I didnt get into the Cavs till about '86. Just didnt care for B ball till I was about 12 or 13. So in saying that my first memory of the Browns was Red Right 88, then the drive, then the fumble, then the move, then the playof game in Pittsburgh, last years missing out on the playoffs. The Indians losing the Series in 95 and blowing it in 97, last years debacle in the ALCS. How many years did OSU have the best team in the country and blow it against Michigan? Now two NC game losses. So out of all that I have had one title, that was the 2002 NC for the Buckeyes. Besides that there has been a lot of heartbreak. I have been through so many ups and downs I just cant let it effect me like that anymore. SO that is why I have to say it is a game and move on. It hurts but I cant let it gnaw at me. Its a game , win or lose life goes on.
So you are lucky, the Reds win when they go,so you expect it. Us Cleveland fans have had our hearts broken so many times that we are not surprised by anything, it hurts less that way.
The Reds have never lost a WS?? I didnt realize that.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Red Right 88.
As Sam said..."If it's not there, simply throw it away."
Cockroft wouldn't have missed a second one from that spot on the field.
And the Raiders went on to win the super bowl. That doesn't mean that we absolutely would have...but as has been said, it was probably our best shot.
![[Linked Image from members.cox.net]](http://members.cox.net/flyinc5/smallsigpics/frcburnout.gif) AL 29 76 14 R_K
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All Pro
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All Pro
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I was leaning toward that myself and than I began to think  ....I we ALL can agree that losing the Browns wasa Horrible Experience ....However , looking back on it now , I think we are vastly better off now than we would have been if the Browns had never left  ....We have an owner with the $ and desire to spend it.....We have a Head Coach who actually understands what it takes to a Winner and who has exactly experienced winning.....Lastly , we Finally have a GM in place for a while who can evaluate talent....So while I cried like many of you when the Browns left....Now we are IMHO way ahead of the curve....I just don't believe that Modell's Browns as a whole(Owner , Coaches , GM and players) would have put us in as good a position as we are now....
The Mammal
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All Pro
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All Pro
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RED Right 88....This might havesomething to do with my age at the time.....Considering that I was 12 and that I believe we hadn't made the Playoffs since 1972 at that point , I just remember the Extreme Emotion that gripped the city that season and IMHO turn that play in our favor and we would eventually advanced and won the Super Bowl that season....Watching those highlights still gets me sick  ....So I just try to avoid them whenever they are on....
The Mammal
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Jim Bundren doesn't hyperextend his elbow in the preseason game against TB in 2001 giving Butch (obviously very jealous of Jim's talent and good looks) an excuse to cut him.
...always have been, always will be...
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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I knew I could count on you for a Jim Bundren reference here.  But, I think you're right. Butch was jealous of him.
#gmstrong
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Going out on a limb here, but, I know somebody on this board has some old Jim Bundren memorabilia- pants and a jersey I believe. - From what you wrote, I assume this is you. Now that you bring up the 2001 season, we had something going there until the. . . . . Bears game. Ugggghhhhhh -had we won that game we would have been 5-2 going into Pittsburgh the next week (we lost to Pitts in overtime) Then came 2002, we got off to a great start until Dwayne Rudd threw his darn helmet. Uggggghhhhhhhh. I guess it just wasn't meant to be for Butch, but it could have easily been a lot different for him.
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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The Drive....do I really have to say anything else. Ok, I will, there's no excuse for why the Browns did not at least go to the Super Bowl that season.
The Fumble, following season, would be my 2nd choice.
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
probably red right 88, i think that was our best chance at a winner...
I have to go with that. We win that game, I think we win the Superbowl. We win that Superbowl, maybe the fumble and the drive never happen... I know it sounds weird, but who knows.   
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum If you could change a moment in
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