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You'll be happy to know I'm quite competent. I just helped to defend a child molester. Not guilty says the jury.
Like I said
BRAD PAISLEY LYRICS
"Online"
I work down at the pizza pit
And I drive an old Hyundai
I still live with my mom and dad
I'm 5'3 and overweight
I'm a Sci-Fi fanatic
Mild asthmatic
Never been to 2nd base
But there's a whole nother me
That you need to see
Go check out MySpace
'cause online I'm down in Hollywood
I'm 6'5 and I look damn good
I drive a Maserati
I'm a black belt in Karate
And I love a good glass of wine
It turns girls on that I'm mysterious
I tell 'em I don't want nothing serious
'cause even on a slow day I can have a three way
Chat with two women at one time
I'm so much cooler online
So much cooler online
I get home, I kiss my mom
And she fixes me a snack
I head down to my basement bedroom
And fire up my Mac
In real life the only time I
Ever even been to L.A.
Was when I got the chance with the marching band
To play tuba in the Rose Parade.
Online I live in Malibu
I posed for Calvin Kline, I've been in GQ
I'm single and I'm rich
And I got a set of six pack abs that'll blow your mind
It turns girls on that I'm mysterious
I tell 'em I don't want nothing serious
'cause even on a slow day I can have a three way
Chat with two women at one time
I'm so much cooler online
Yeah I'm cooler online
When you got my kinda stats, it's hard to get a date
Let alone a real girlfriend
But I grow another foot
And I lose a bunch of weight everytime I log in
Online I'm out in Hollywood
I'm 6'5 and I look damn good
Even on a slow day, I can have a three way
Chat with two women at one time
I'm so much cooler online
Yeah I'm cooler online
I'm so much cooler online
Yeah I'm cooler online
[Thanks to Kayla for these lyrics]
[Thanks to Alicia, Tom, Lisa for correcting these lyrics]
[ www.azlyrics.com ]
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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You showed your vast intelligence of the law with this simple statement: "They're not criminals just because they're here illegally." Here is the definition of a criminal. crim·i·nal –adjective 1. of the nature of or involving crime. 2. guilty of crime. 3. Law. of or pertaining to crime or its punishment: a criminal proceeding. 4. senseless; foolish: It's criminal to waste so much good food. 5. exorbitant; grossly overpriced: They charge absolutely criminal prices. –noun 6. a person guilty or convicted of a crime. YOU just said they were here ILLEGALLY. Therefore, they are guilty of a crime. That makes them a "criminal". Yeah, I'm sure you're a great attorney when you don't even know the definition of criminal. 
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That was great gm!!!!
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well, then we're probably all criminals. Have you ever gone over the speed limit? It's against the law. Come to a complete stop every time? Ever had a drink before you were 21?
you're just being silly now.
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well, then we're probably all criminals. Have you ever gone over the speed limit? It's against the law. Come to a complete stop every time? Ever had a drink before you were 21?
you're just being silly now.
And if you get caught you face consequences.
This just in. 25 Illegal immigrants working on the new jail, get caught.
http://www.nbc-2.com/articles/readarticle.asp?articleid=19299&z=3
FORT MYERS: Deputies and Immigrations and Customs Enforcement agents arrested 25 construction workers at the site of the new Lee County Jail off Ortiz Avenue due to concerns over their immigration status.
Working on a tip, the sheriff’s office planned the bust Wednesday night and carried it out Thursday morning.
"Got with ICE and decided to go first thing in the morning. Much better time on the job site, catch everybody," said Lee County Sheriff Mike Scott.
One of the workers explained what happened Thursday morning.
"They made everybody go into one room. They told everybody who didn't have proper ID to get on one side and the others to get on the other side," said one of the workers.
Twenty five people were arrested.
"Twenty-two males and three females from a number of different countries- Guatemala, Mexico, Brazil," said Lee County Sheriff Mike Scott.
The 25 illegals are all employees of several different subcontractors hired to work on the new jail facility.
Neither the sheriff's office nor ICE would name all the businesses involved, but Spectrum Painting was identified as one of the businesses.
We spoke to the Vice President of Spectrum Contracting, Inc., but he said he didn’t know anything about it.
Late Thursday afternoon, we were sent the following statement from the President of Spectrum, John Schallert.
"At this time, we are unable to confirm how many of our employees have been detained by INS this afternoon. Every person who applies for employment with our company goes through our hiring process, and that includes producing the required documentation to prove employment eligibility. Just as any other business does, we want to hire people who are hard working and take pride in doing a good job. Spectrum Contracting has been a specialty contracting company for 15 years in this area, providing area builders with services that include waterproofing, fireproofing, hurricane repairs, reconstruction management, specialty coatings and painting for commercial buildings and high-rises."
When we went to Kraft Construction, the general contractor for part of the project, we were asked to leave their property.
We later spoke to Richard Hart- the Vice President of Human Resources. He admitted one of the workers arrested was theirs.
Hart says he doesn't know why the worker was arrested because he had all of the proper paperwork.
"In my humble perspective, until there's a border, we can't even begin to dream of getting a hold of what's going on here," said Scott.
The suspects are in the custody of the ICE Office of Detention and Removal. They have all been placed in removal proceedings and will remain in custody pending the outcome of their case.
Last edited by FloridaFan; 05/16/08 08:20 AM.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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LOL, nice try. Yes, I had a drink before I was 21.....because the legal age was 19 when I was growing up. You are SERIOUSLY comparing entering a country illegally to a traffic violation. Keep up the ridiculous posts. They are good for a laugh. There's now way someone that CLAIMS to be such a successful lawyer could POSSIBLY be this ignorant about the law.
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If he holds such a black and white eye to the law, then what happens when he is defending a client that is obviously guilty, but thanks to loopholes and technicalities, he can be freed?
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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"In my humble perspective, until there's a border, we can't even begin to dream of getting a hold of what's going on here," said Scott.
Dude, there IS A BORDER. 
yebat' Putin
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LOL, nice try. Yes, I had a drink before I was 21.....because the legal age was 19 when I was growing up.
You are SERIOUSLY comparing entering a country illegally to a traffic violation. Keep up the ridiculous posts. They are good for a laugh. There's now way someone that CLAIMS to be such a successful lawyer could POSSIBLY be this ignorant about the law.
I was responding to your post that was repsonding to my post about illegals not being criminals, because I believe they have commit any crime of moral turpitude, violence, or any other "criminal" behavoir. You commented that a criminal is someone who breaks the law. So we're probably all criminals. you don't have to get caught to break the law.
The only ignorant thing I'm doing is responding to you.
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If he holds such a black and white eye to the law, then what happens when he is defending a client that is obviously guilty, but thanks to loopholes and technicalities, he can be freed?
do you really want to know? or are you just being adversarial?
Those loopholes and technicalities, as you call them, are called constitutional rights. They are what protect all of us from the government, not just criminals, all of us. Some of the most important rights we have exist because of criminal cases. Maybe that's wrong, maybe it isn't, but it's how our government works.
Every human being in this country is entitled to a sound defense. that's the law, and i would be violating my oath and my duty to the court and to the nation if i did not "zealously" represent the interest of my client. It's called doing my job, and doing it honorably.
If i didn't do that, and someone obviously guilty went to jail, then there would simply be a valid reason now, a "technicality" we call right to counsel, that would free him on appeal anyway and cost the taxpayer a lot more money. If I do a good job and he's found guilty, it's a lot harder to appeal.
If you want to live in a Facist state, be my guest. If you aren't interested in giving the ACCUSED a right to counsel, public trial, and basic human rights, then the USA isn't for you. If you're okay with the government tapping your phone, searching your belongs, and frisking you without probably cause, move to Iran.
If you want a government that is "land of the free," then I guess you're stuck with those loopholes in the bill of rights that allow us to live free from fear of persecution from the government. Not prosecution, Persecution. Be careful what you wish for.
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because I believe they have commit any crime of moral turpitude, violence, or any other "criminal" behavoir. You commented that a criminal is someone who breaks the law. So we're probably all criminals. you don't have to get caught to break the law.
I believe that most of us "criminals" understand the nature of our crimes of speeding, etc.. and we fully understand the price we would pay if caught. The price for getting caught as an illegal is deportation.
yebat' Putin
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I don't know, insanity seems to be a plea people use often. Insane or not, if they killed someone they should be locked away, not sent to a funny farm.  So let's say, and this is extreme hypothetical, the suspect kills a family of four during a home invasion. He video taped himself doing it. Now the police don't obtain a warrant before entering his home and finding the video tape, so as the defense you would ask the court to not allow the video as evidence, since it was seized illegally right? The video tape is the only evidence they had, he disposed of the weapon, and burned his clothes far away in the mountains, and he was wrapped in a giant body-condom (ala naked gun  ) so he didn't leave behind any DNA. What do you do?
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I don't know, insanity seems to be a plea people use often. Insane or not, if they killed someone they should be locked away, not sent to a funny farm.
So let's say, and this is extreme hypothetical, the suspect kills a family of four during a home invasion. He video taped himself doing it.
Now the police don't obtain a warrant before entering his home and finding the video tape, so as the defense you would ask the court to not allow the video as evidence, since it was seized illegally right? The video tape is the only evidence they had, he disposed of the weapon, and burned his clothes far away in the mountains, and he was wrapped in a giant body-condom (ala naked gun ) so he didn't leave behind any DNA.
What do you do?
That's a pretty unrealistic hypothetical, but if you must - I have no choice. I'd have to move to dismiss the video from evidence.
1. I'd be violating my oath if I didn't, could be sanctioned by the bar, could be sued for malpractice, and he'd get it overturned on appeal anyway by a competent attorney.
2. What we often fail to realize in situations like this, is that it was the fault of the police. The police are given great authority. They can shoot people, take away their freedom, search through their things. What we require of them is probable cause. It's not a lot to ask for, and a pretty low threshold. Any cop who ignores that shouldn't be a cop. Unforntunately, the only way we can keep a check on them is to take away the benefit of ignoring our rights.
3. In your hypothetical, the video would likely come in anyway under an exception. For example, why do the cops search his home without a warrant? Just because? Or do they have reason to believe there is evidence of the murder in his home? If they have probable cause, and there is a chance that the evidence will be destroyed if they don't act quickly, they won't need a warrant. If they chase him into his home, they don't need a warrant. Finally, getting a warrant is pretty simple. It's a small protection that is vital to us all.
4. Insanity has very specific requirements, and those people are rarely let off the hook, rather get smaller sentences or put in an institution. And the institution is the worst, because you'll never get out. It's not like you see in the movies.
I hope that answers your question. Sometimes it is very difficult to this job, but I believe it's an important one. By the way, most people who get accused of a crime are convicted. If they get out, it's usually because of prison overcrowding since we are locking everyone up for nothing nowadays. Teh tougher we get on crime, the more criminals we have to let go because there isn't room. Worry more about people like that guy in TX who spent 27 years in prison for a crime he didn't commit, than for someone getting off because cops screwed up the evidence.
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because I believe they have commit any crime of moral turpitude, violence, or any other "criminal" behavoir. You commented that a criminal is someone who breaks the law. So we're probably all criminals. you don't have to get caught to break the law.
I believe that most of us "criminals" understand the nature of our crimes of speeding, etc.. and we fully understand the price we would pay if caught. The price for getting caught as an illegal is deportation.
I think you'll find that no one is saying that they don't know they're going to get deported if they get caught or that they don't udnerstand teh nature of their crimes. They're just like us, we know if we get caught speeding, we'll pay the price, but it's worth it to us for whatever reason. They know they'll get deported, but the opportunity for work is worth the risk. Cant' say I wouldn't do the exact same thing if I needed to feed my family.
What we're saying is we don't like the laws that deport them, the way they are enforced, or they way illegals are viewed. My argument is not that they aren't doing something illegal, they are. I just don't think that makes them bad people, or people who don't deserve human rights, or "criminals" as we use the term derrogatorily. Some of the greatest americans have been criminals. MLK, for example.
Just because something is the law, doesn't make it right. In nazi Germany, the law was kill the jews. Many warcriminals said "I was just following orders." didnt' make it right. And, in fact, they were considered the criminals, thought they didn't break german law, and the criminals, the jews they arrested, were the victims of an unjust law. I'm not comparing illegal immigration to the holocaust. I am saying that just using "they're breaking the law" as a reason to look down on people isn't a wise way to view the world.
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What we're saying is we don't like the laws that deport them, the way they are enforced, or they way illegals are viewed.
Then what would you do about it?
yebat' Putin
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"Many warcriminals said "I was just following orders." didnt' make it right.
This struck me as hilarious since it is almost exactly what you said about just "doing my job". If you did your job "honorably", you wouldn't defend someone you KNEW was guilty and feel good you got them off. Thanks for showing us even more the lack of "honor" and morals you truly have. No need to reply, as I think Peen has the best option when it comes to such a person and their babbligns, just ignore them. That's what I'll do.
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You'll be happy to know I'm quite competent. I just helped to defend a child molester. Not guilty says the jury.
Like I said
BRAD PAISLEY LYRICS
"Online"
LOL
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Because all people who are here that are illegals are all here to feed their family...  It doesn't matter if they are here to feed their family or if they are here to get away from something, hell, it doesn't matter if they are here to cure cancer, they have to have the proper papers to be here. If you don't you get deported. But sure, we should just open our borders and say "Come on in!" Because gosh dang it, everyone deserves to be in this country. Gang members, drug runners, terrorist, and the people that need to feed their families, doesn't matter, they all deserve to be in this country....
you had a good run Hank.
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Hey now, the Rotary Club, the Lions Club, MS-13... whats the difference? 
yebat' Putin
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Because all people who are here that are illegals are all here to feed their family...
It doesn't matter if they are here to feed their family or if they are here to get away from something, hell, it doesn't matter if they are here to cure cancer, they have to have the proper papers to be here. If you don't you get deported.
But sure, we should just open our borders and say "Come on in!" Because gosh dang it, everyone deserves to be in this country. Gang members, drug runners, terrorist, and the people that need to feed their families, doesn't matter, they all deserve to be in this country....
What did you do to deserve to be in this country?
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"Many warcriminals said "I was just following orders." didnt' make it right.
This struck me as hilarious since it is almost exactly what you said about just "doing my job". If you did your job "honorably", you wouldn't defend someone you KNEW was guilty and feel good you got them off. Thanks for showing us even more the lack of "honor" and morals you truly have. No need to reply, as I think Peen has the best option when it comes to such a person and their babbligns, just ignore them. That's what I'll do.
Except that I believe what i'm doing in my job is right. so if i ever have to stand before trial and answer what i did, i'll say that I was doing what i believed was right, upholding the US constitution, and protecting all people from an opressive government. Big differece.
And even people who every KNOWS is guilty deserves a defense. There are many variable. Time in prison, time of probabation, plea agreements to lesser chargers. mitigating circumstances. It's never black and white. That's why we use judges instead of computers.
Get a clue. I couldn't be happier that you will ignore me from now on. It's gets tiring trying to speak logic to three year olds all day.
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Because all people who are here that are illegals are all here to feed their family...
It doesn't matter if they are here to feed their family or if they are here to get away from something, hell, it doesn't matter if they are here to cure cancer, they have to have the proper papers to be here. If you don't you get deported.
But sure, we should just open our borders and say "Come on in!" Because gosh dang it, everyone deserves to be in this country. Gang members, drug runners, terrorist, and the people that need to feed their families, doesn't matter, they all deserve to be in this country....
What did you do to deserve to be in this country?
Be a US Citizen.
you had a good run Hank.
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"It's gets tiring trying to speak logic to three year olds all day" That's why I will ignore you. If you ever get a clue, then maybe I'll reconsider. I doubt it though. You're acutally proud of your warped views. 
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What we're saying is we don't like the laws that deport them, the way they are enforced, or they way illegals are viewed.
Then what would you do about it?
I think first of all, we need to worry less about their legal status and more about the human condition. I'm not saying let everyone come over. I'm saying the first thing is to remember that these people, the huge majority, are not terrorists or people that mean to do us harm. They are just like us. Not better, no lesser. Just people.
Secondly, I think we are wasting a lot of resources fighting a losing battle that isn't a good one to fight anyway. Like this wall. What a waste of money. first of all, i'll bet you anything there will zero change in teh amount of immigrants that come over. people find a way. and that money could be spent on addressing the real problem, which is that they want to come here in the first place. If we spent all that time and energy and resources showing the Mexican people how to have a stable adn prosperous country like our own, they wouldn't want to come over. These peopel our are neighbors and our allies. We're treating them like the huns.
Finally, i think we need to have a more realistic immigration policy. a 20 year wait list to get a work visa is just ridiculous. People can't wait that long. They need work now. So of course they come over illegally. we would do the same thing. If there were no jobs in ohio at all, you were completely broke, your kids weren't in school, and your family was hungry and living in a shack, but you knew in Indiana there were jobs that you could do, feed your family, get a small home, get your kids an education, get milk for your baby - would you be willing to wait on a 20 year waiting list? Or would you jsut cross over and say, if I get caught and they send me back, I'll jsut come back over. But my kids are going to have a future, and I'm not going to sit around all day with nothing to do while my family goes hungry.
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So basically we are promoting reverse outsourcing. Instead of sending jobs oversees, let's bring those people here and have them send their money back over to their family. Not a fan
you had a good run Hank.
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So basically we are promoting reverse outsourcing. Instead of sending jobs oversees, let's bring those people here and have them send their money back over to their family.
Not a fan
You make a great point. That wall isn't going to stop jobs from going to india. See, we're a capitalist society. We're not communist or socialist. so employers are going to do what they can to make money. Now, if we build stuff here and ship it out, even if they send money home, they also spend money here. If they just put the factory in mexico, we lose it all. Youc an't force a company to lose money and use workers that are too expensive. Not in free market, anyway.
We're looking for someone to blame so we blame illegals. It's not them. Everybody can't be rich. Some people have to do the crap jobs and get paid less. either that, or communism. When people need work, they'll find a way to get it. my opinion? might as well let em in, make them pay taxes, and compete for the jobs as best we can. it's what happens anyway. They deserve that chance as much as we do. we haven't done anything special to be americans, most of us. we were just born here. luck does not equal entitlement.
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I suppose you do have a point.
However, I'd much rather see the leaders of the big companies bring jobs back over to America. But that is a pipe dream.
you had a good run Hank.
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Ditto.
The good news is, we do have some effect on that. By supporting companies that do try to keep jobs in the US, we make more demand for US product, so other companies will follow. It's tough, because usually that means the goods are more expensive. But companies will do what they need to make money, so if you can afford it, we should do our best to buy from companies that keep jobs in the US.
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If he holds such a black and white eye to the law, then what happens when he is defending a client that is obviously guilty, but thanks to loopholes and technicalities, he can be freed?
I haven't read much, and some I can't, but EVERYBODY is entitled to a through and vigorous defense.
Nothing in this world is perfect, and the justice system is included. I am confident in saying far more guilty people get off then do innocent people get convicted.....and I am glad for that fact.
I suspect, if you really put you thinking cap on are too.
What you call loopholes and technicalities, I call points of law and points of evidence.
You really don't want it the other way around.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I agree to a point, Peen. What I am saying is that I don't see how someone actually defends someone they know are guilty. Every defendant has a right to a defense, but every lawyer has the right not to accept a case if he knows the defendant is guilty, don't they? (serious question not sarcastic).
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I agree here Coach. I almost posted the same question a bit back in the thread, but decided to leave it.
Peen, Job, can council request themselves be taken off a case for reasons of ethical interest or something? If you truly believe they are guilty, how can you defend them? And that is a serious question, not a rhetorical one.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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What I am saying is that I don't see how someone actually defends someone they know are guilty.
You don't know they are guilty unless you were there.
You present your best case. As long as you don't suborn perjury , you do the best you can....like I said somewhere else....the day we stop defending people who are guilty is the day we are a step closer to not defending innocent people with difficult cases.
Don't blame the defense attorney for getting a guilty person off. Blame the prosecutors and police for proceeding with a weak case.
I am worried with this draconian attitude we have developed over the past 25 years.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Poser
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What I'm saying is if the attorney KNOWS the man is guilty before he takes the case or decides in his mind he is guilty, does he have the right to refuse to take the person as a client. I understand what you're saying. That's not what I'm asking though. I'm saying if I were an attorney and I KNEW a child molester was guilty, or thought he was, there is no way I could defrend him no matter what he's entitled to. I have to look in the mirror and I have to be able to sleep at night and if I put a child molester back ont he streets to put other kids in danger, I couldn't do either.
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All Pro
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All Pro
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Posts: 563 |
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What I'm saying is if the attorney KNOWS the man is guilty before he takes the case or decides in his mind he is guilty, does he have the right to refuse to take the person as a client. I understand what you're saying. That's not what I'm asking though. I'm saying if I were an attorney and I KNEW a child molester was guilty, or thought he was, there is no way I could defrend him no matter what he's entitled to. I have to look in the mirror and I have to be able to sleep at night and if I put a child molester back ont he streets to put other kids in danger, I couldn't do either.
The short answer to your question is no, you can't decide you won't defend someone because you think they are guilty. If someone hires you as an attorney, you must get special permision from the court to be removed, and saying you are morally opposed to representing a guilty person won't work. In fact, the judge will likely wonder why you are an attorney in the first place.
If you are a public defender, it's even worse. Unless there is a conflict of interest - meaning that you are related to the victim or something, you have to do it to the best of your ability.
There is a case, and I can't remember the name of it, where a guy didn't want to represent this woman who was suing her parents so she could have an abortion. he was pro life and didn't believe his religious beliefs could allow him to represent her. the courts said he had to, or he could turn in his bar card and find another profession.
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All Pro
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All Pro
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Because all people who are here that are illegals are all here to feed their family...
It doesn't matter if they are here to feed their family or if they are here to get away from something, hell, it doesn't matter if they are here to cure cancer, they have to have the proper papers to be here. If you don't you get deported.
But sure, we should just open our borders and say "Come on in!" Because gosh dang it, everyone deserves to be in this country. Gang members, drug runners, terrorist, and the people that need to feed their families, doesn't matter, they all deserve to be in this country....
What did you do to deserve to be in this country?
Be a US Citizen.
Exactly, you didn't DO anything. You just got luckly. You don't deserve it anymore than me or anyone else who was born here. I think the sooner we get that argument out of this discussion about policy the faster]= we'll come to better solutions. It's not about what people deserve. I'm sure there are some people in Mexico who "deserve" a better life than someone here. I'm sure there are many non US citizens who "deserve" it more than me. Saying they don't deserve it is making some kind of moral judgment, which i think perverts the actual issue.
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Posts: 40,399
Legend
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Legend
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Posts: 40,399 |
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I think first of all, we need to worry less about their legal status and more about the human condition. I'm not saying let everyone come over. I'm saying the first thing is to remember that these people, the huge majority, are not terrorists or people that mean to do us harm. They are just like us. Not better, no lesser. Just people.
Your points run counter to each other because the better we make it for them, the more that will come over. You can not say, simultaneously, we need to take better care of them, but I want less to come over... it doesn't work that way.
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and that money could be spent on addressing the real problem, which is that they want to come here in the first place. If we spent all that time and energy and resources showing the Mexican people how to have a stable adn prosperous country like our own, they wouldn't want to come over.
So you want us to export some democracy and capitalism? They have the manpower, they have the natural resources, they have tourism, they have everything a country could want to be prosperous... the only way to change it is to fundamentally change the government... now how are we going to do that?
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These peopel our are neighbors and our allies. We're treating them like the huns.
So if your neighbor was unemployed you'd let him come live with you? Then you would let him bring his wife and his 4 kids? Then you'd let him bring his uncle and his wife and their 3 kids? And of course they would be working while living with you... but the money they made they would be sending back to their grandparents in Montana... while you paid to feed them, provide their healthcare, and their education... if so, you are a better "neighbor" than me.
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 |
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So if your neighbor was unemployed you'd let him come live with you? Then you would let him bring his wife and his 4 kids? Then you'd let him bring his uncle and his wife and their 3 kids? And of course they would be working while living with you... but the money they made they would be sending back to their grandparents in Montana... while you paid to feed them, provide their healthcare, and their education... if so, you are a better "neighbor" than me.
I like that analogy. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Posts: 1,802
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,802 |
(sigh)
I like to think of my America as the land of opportunity where everyone around the globe comes to make life better for themselves. That is what this country is about, land of the free, the American Dream, etc. There shouldn't be a limit on people from Mexico coming over here or immigration caps/quotas. That's just stupid. If people want to come here, and do so legally, than that process needs to be sped up. This isn't the cold war where we "need to keep an eye on them commies" or anything...
Yes, I know people are breaking the law by doing that to come here, but tell me there is a trace of empathy or understanding for what the people of there don't have and why they come here. Most of our parents and theirs in line were able to escape something we didn't like, like famine in Ireland, Nazism in Germany, just a few examples. Yet for some reason I don't see them as being slowed down in coming here, but embraced with open arms more than anything.... why is that? I think I have a few ideas why...
What I'm advocating more than anything is to make it easier to come here legally... a 20 year wait list is just assanine and not what we're about over here. Yes, keep the borders safe and overall maintain true sovereignty by being in control of that... but be in control of promoting the melting pot and true American values when it comes to immigration and embracing people escaping the devastation of their homeland for whatever reason, not excluding and leaving them no other choice.
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 |
Yes, the wait to become a citizen is too long. But that's not the biggest issue. You can't just have unlimited, and unimpeded immigration, or else we would be flooded with immigrants without the infrastructure or programs to support them.
We already have a unemployment issue, imagine if we just opened the doors, and now you have 30 million immigrants looking for work as well, and since they are all "legalized" immigrants, we have to supply welfare, health care, etc to them.
There is a way to enter the country legally, and remain while you go through the channels to become a citizen, they just choose not to.
What I find really interesting is that we offer a Spanish translation for a driving test. Hello, the road signs are in English. Not to mention, why don't we offer translations for every language then?
We are a melting pot, and a most everyone here at some point in their lineage immigrated. They came, they filled out the paperwork, they took citizenship classes, they learned English, they payed taxes, they worked and supported their communities, and they assimilated into the American culture, while keeping their own cultural traditions alive.
I'm of German and Irish heritage, but I'm not German or Irish, I'm American.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Posts: 890
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 890 |
Meatpacking huh? Maybe they were planning on having a sausage fest 
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