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i thought someone said one time here--i can't find the post--that you were talking about driving drunk once or deciding to. The post was probably about a year old.
Go Browns!
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Practice Squad
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I can only speak about Tennessee law.....in Tennessee, you lose it for a year. From what I have read by a few , Ohio laws are not as strict.
I just looked it up at the Ohio BMV site and the ALS (license suspension) for a first offense refusal is one year (which can be reduced by a judge on appeal), while the ALS for a first offense conviction is at least 90 days.
Another thing to note, you do not have to submit to a Breathalyzer with the portable unit. If you want to "do the right thing" and submit, always have them take you to the "big machine" at the station house or submit to a blood draw. This does 2 things:
1. It runs out the clock. The police only have a certain amount of time to collect the evidence against you and have it be admissible (I think it is 45 mins or an hour but might be 2 plus).
2. The roadside units are notoriously inaccurate (even when properly calibrated) because they are programmed poorly. They are supposed to work by factoring an average of 10 readings over the course of your breath. The "average" is not truly an average (take all values divide by 10) but a sort of weighted average [(((R1+R2)/2+R3)/2+R4)/2...). Also, they have no sanity checking to throw out improbable readings.
reference 1
reference 2
reference 3
reference 4
My advice is that if you are sure you are under, go ahead and volunteer to let the nice officer take you to the station house to submit to the Breathalyzer. If you are close, if the officer thinks you are borderline, you will probably be let go as it just isn't worth it to do the paperwork to take you in.
Original Dawg Talkers Pick'ems Champion
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Kent State cops are generally easier to get along with than KPD (kent city) but there's good and bad in everything. You have the same cross-section of people in careers across the board.
I don't drink much, so the cops had no probs with me. They'd always wave hello to me when I worked security on campus.
Reporters, on the other hand...
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how is that a trick question? it's hard to do but its not a trick question...
you just go z y x etc. backwards...slowly but surely.
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Why? Because you KNOW the law, yet you CHOOSE to not obey it.
And that pretty much sums it up boys and girls. Everybody who drinks knows where the limit is set.
I bet most don't know what .08 feels like.
Get your own breathalyser so you can make a informed decision.
Very good post Peen  Many years ago the local police, and a few other agencies use to put on a demonstration of the effects of drinking and driving. (People actually drinking, driving an obsticle course, and getting a breathalizer after every few drinks. I was lucky enough to get to do this (This was back in the day when drinking a case of beer every day was the norm for me) I aced the driving test at a .24  However what I learned from the whole thing was what my BAC would be after each drink (on an empty stomach) If I know I'm going to blow an .08 or higher I'm not driving.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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My parents always told me that you never blow when you doubt whether or not you'll pass.
Parenting at it's finest. 
In Florida, refusing to blow is automatic license suspension, because you will have violated the implied consent law.
Florida Law:
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Chemical or Physical Test Provisions
(Implied Consent Law)-s. 316.1932, F.S., s. 316.1933, F.S., s. 316.1934, F.S, s. 316.1939, F.S
Refusal: Refusal to submit to a breath, urine, or blood test is admissible as evidence in DUI criminal proceedings. Second or subsequent refusal is a misdemeanor of the first degree.
Driver License Suspension Periods: First refusal, suspended for 1 year. Second or subsequent refusals, suspended for 18 months.
Commercial Driver License Disqualification Periods: First refusal in a commercial motor vehicle, disqualified for 1 year. Second or subsequent refusals in a commercial motor vehicle, disqualified permanently. No hardship reinstatement permitted.
Forceful Withdrawal of Blood: If necessary, blood may be withdrawn in DUI cases involving serious bodily injury or death by authorized medical personnel with the use of reasonable force by the arresting officer, even if the driver refuses.
Unconscious: Any person who is incapable of refusal by reason of unconsciousness or other mental or physical condition shall be deemed not to have withdrawn his consent to such test. A blood test may be administered whether or not such person is told that his failure to submit to such a blood test will result in the suspension of his privilege to operate a motor vehicle.
Portable Alcohol Breath Testing Devices: Authorized by s.322.2616, F.S., for persons under the age of 21. Reading is admissible as evidence in any administrative hearing conducted under s. 322.2616, F.S.
Adjudication and Sentencing - s. 316.656, F.S., s. 322.2615 F.S.
Penalty to be Imposed by Court: Judges are prohibited from deviating from the administrative suspension/revocation periods mandated by statute. The courts are prohibited from withholding adjudication in DUI cases; or from reducing a DUI charge if the defendant's blood alcohol was .20 or greater.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Right, wrong or whatever... if you get pulled over at 0.08 or higher, you DESERVE to get busted and lose your license. Why? Because you KNOW the law, yet you CHOOSE to not obey it. Same thing as speeding. It isn't a major shock or surprise when you get popped for speeding... you've earned it.
Absolutely. If you don't like the law then work to change it, but as long as its the law, don't complain when you get busted for breaking it.
yebat' Putin
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you wouldn't be so ignorant
That really adds to the debate.
I have read up on it. PPE is right. The law is the law. There's nothing that will change that. If anything, it gets "stricter" as time goes by.
First it was .10. Now it's .08. What's next? Sniff a beer bottle cap?
If an unfair legal racket is what you wish to uphold, fine.
While I "don't do it", I can drink 4 or five beers and drive fine. But the law doesn't care if "I'm fine". They simply care if they can draw a bunch of money out of me. There is a HUGE difference in "the spirit of the law" and "the letter of the law".
If the "spirit of the law" is followed, you try to get people who are "truely impaired" off the road. But in many cases "the letter of the law" is followed to exact cash from the public.
Where I live now, for $3.00 I can take a bus to a bar AND back home!
Lawyer $1500, 3 day intervention week-end around $500, court costs and fines $500...................
I can take one helluva lot of bus trips for that! In fact, it would pay for one helluva lot of cab fares.
So any way you slice it, fair or unfair, there are common sense measures that can be taken to avoid such circumstances IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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In Florida, refusing to blow is automatic license suspension, because you will have violated the implied consent law.
In Ohio, it's a legal catch 22.
First, they read you your rights. Which states you do not have to answer any questions or do anything that might incriminate you. Then, not long after that, they ask you to take a breathiliser test. Contradiction? Yes.
If you say nothing or do nothing, (as they say you CAN DO when reading you your rights) then they say you refused. Then they ask you to sign a form SAYING you refused.
So how is that not answerring questions or giving them ammunition to incriminate yourself?
Try this.......................
"You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You do not have to answer any questions without an attorney present. Even though we'll suspend your license for excercising your rights."
That's one helluva lot more truthfull than the BS they're currently telling you!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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1st String
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J/C http://bloodalcoholcalculator.org/That link will direct you to a website that will give an estimated blood alcohol content. 3 beers in one hour for a 165 lb male in theory will not put someone over the limit of .08. Now this doesn't take into account individual alcohol breakdown by the body, but just a generalized average. I think people get things to twisted on here that if you drink a beer or two that you will be over the limit. Theoretically that isn't the case. Now as to the miranda rights...This holds true if being questioned for something after the cops read you this right. If the cops to not read this right to you, and you say something that could imcriminate you; it can be tossed out in the court if you can prove you were not read your rights prior to questioning. I think my interpretation is accurate. I know cases have been thrown out of the court when a cop failed to read this right. http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/mirandarights/a/miranda.htm
Last edited by ChiefsFan; 08/12/08 12:24 PM.
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Losing your license by not consenting to a breathalyzer has nothing to do with incrimination. Losing your license due to Implied Consent has NOTHING to do with your guilt or innocence, but simply your refusal to submit to the testing that your agreed to submit to by accepting your license in the first place (hence the term Implied Consent). You remove your agreement, they remove your license. Is it a Gotcha? Damn right it is. Don't want to get caught in it? Then don't Use and Drive.
However, the more savvy person would inform the officer present that you will take the breathalyzer as soon as your lawyer is present, which is entirely within your legal rights.... and then your one call goes to said attorney, and said attorney will find it difficult to get to the police station any sooner than 2 hours or so.... by which time your BAC has dropped dramatically. If you were borderline, you no longer would be...... and none of that would violate the implied consent statute and you would walk out with your license and a "small" lawyer bill.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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However, the more savvy person would inform the officer present that you will take the breathalyzer as soon as your lawyer is present, which is entirely within your legal rights.... and then your one call goes to said attorney, and said attorney will find it difficult to get to the police station any sooner than 2 hours or so.... by which time your BAC has dropped dramatically. If you were borderline, you no longer would be...... and none of that would violate the implied consent statute and you would walk out with your license and a "small" lawyer bill.
I actually used that one once. MANY years ago.
Only my lawyer called back three hours later informing them he would be unable to make it.
You do know kids read this board don't you?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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You do know kids read this board don't you?
Which is why I recommend that a person do what I did:
Don't get a lawyer & don't try to get out of it.
Walk in at the appointed time and plead guilty to what you've done and then man up and take the consequences you've EARNED.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Which is what I did about four years ago. No lawyer. I hadn't had a ticket in 18 years. $250 + court cost. Three days in jail. Why do diversion? You spend $450. THEN, if they "reccomend" anything, you have to take that also. More "money trap". House me and feed me for three days and then it's over! You're DONE! It was a pretty easy decision. Pay them to take diversion, or let them take care of me. I think if EVERY OVI conviction cost THEM money, they may rethink things. Either way, it wasn't as painfull as it could have been. When I was younger, I thought more about loopholes. While I wasn't "impaired" to a major degree, I was still guilty. Hell, they just did the paperwok and let me go the night it happened. A female friend of mine asked if I had to go to jail? The cop said, and I quote, "No, he isn't being a problem and he isn't really drunk. So you can pick him up at the station." I guess he was a "letter follower" and not a "spirit follower".
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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you wouldn't be so ignorant
That really adds to the debate.
I have read up on it. PPE is right. The law is the law. There's nothing that will change that. If anything, it gets "stricter" as time goes by.
First it was .10. Now it's .08. What's next? Sniff a beer bottle cap?
If an unfair legal racket is what you wish to uphold, fine.
While I "don't do it", I can drink 4 or five beers and drive fine. But the law doesn't care if "I'm fine". They simply care if they can draw a bunch of money out of me. There is a HUGE difference in "the spirit of the law" and "the letter of the law".
If the "spirit of the law" is followed, you try to get people who are "truely impaired" off the road. But in many cases "the letter of the law" is followed to exact cash from the public.
Where I live now, for $3.00 I can take a bus to a bar AND back home!
Lawyer $1500, 3 day intervention week-end around $500, court costs and fines $500...................
I can take one helluva lot of bus trips for that! In fact, it would pay for one helluva lot of cab fares.
So any way you slice it, fair or unfair, there are common sense measures that can be taken to avoid such circumstances IMO
Yes, it does add to the debate. You don't know how the test works or what studies have been done to show why it works. Hence, you are ignorant on the subject. That isn't an insult, it's terminology. Don't blame me you don't want to know what's going on.
Prove it's a money making racket. I am supporting taking studies into account that shows the amount of impairment and then making the law in correlation to that. Why do you have a problem with keeping innocent people safe from other people's poor judgement? You can say all you want about how you can handle your liquor, but that doesn't mean you are right or that the science backs it up. I am basing my opinion on studies done on impairment. You are basing yours on your opinion that you can handle more than the law allows.
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Just a pointer, if you actually do go to court and explain this to the prosecutor, you can most likely get the seat belt part dismissed.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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Dude you are not that important, the cops care about the public not you sort of speak, stop doing drugs and getting hammered and these worries will go away.
Side note: Your weak as hell, you accuse peeps of calling you names and what not, but the fact is YOU broke the law. Get a set and quit crying about getting pulled over, been there done that, thin skinned one.
Quit the I am an "angel" routine, you seem to be just another in the long list of those who have no idea about life and your posts have proven that. Your young, hopefully you'll grow up, but from reading your posts on this board, I am asking for a miracle LOL.
Oh and when you tried to portay as Shep "dogging" you, that was DUMB, yes I said it, but you posts proved it, so don't act like people are hating on you, this situation is one you brought upon yourself..
Oh and Waaa, want your pacifier, this happens all the time, lightweight.
I may disagree with Tyler, but this is completely unnecessary. I was hoping to observe an intelligent conversation or public debate from reading this thread and this pretty much ruined it.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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Contradiction? Yes.
No, it isn't.
By accepting a license to operate a motor vehicle, you give your consent to submitting to testing if asked. You don't have to take any tests. They can't make you take any tests, but what they can do is suspend your privileged to drive because that is one of the stipulations in getting your license in the first place.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Ballpeen is correct. You DO have the option of declining to take any field test. Declining any such test is not an admission of guilt. IF you admit to any guilt, you just made your attorney's job very difficult.
It seems to me that when connected, powerful attorneys, judges etc.. are pulled over, they will decline field tests and breathalizer tests.
There was a local lawyer from my area, who recently just passed away, who came up with the greatest defense when he crashed his car.
I guess he drove into the side of a building, possibly (more than likely) driving drunk. Well, he quickly ran out of his car and across the street to a bar. Started to drink. So when cops arrived and found him in the bar, they couldn't prove if he started drinking before or after the accident. He didn't get charged with driving drunk. I found that pretty slick.
Isn't leaving the scene of an accident a pretty big fine/crime?
Leaving the scene of an accident is a crime. Being a lawyer, I'm sure he got it lessened to something stupid. It's a lot better than getting charged with a DUI and crashing.
I know my brother crashed his car, damaged a guardrail (not to mention his car) and ran over a street sign while drunk in the middle of the night. I picked him up while he left his car there. Of course he got in trouble for it, but I don't think he ended up with anything major- not what he would have gotten nailed with if he was drunk at the scene. My friend, who is a cop, said I did the best thing in picking him up as far as consequences go.
It was Don Hanni. (former head of the Mahoning County Democratic Party) He ran his car into the Youngstown Post Office ....... went into the nearest bar "to find a phone" ....... had several drinks in front of all the patrons there to "calm his nerves" ......... and got away with it with a very minor charge. 
A former Trumbull County Sheriff did that as well. Wrecked his 56 vette and went inside this party that was right there while waiting for the police to arive and slammed some down...
#gmstrong
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DUI is nothing but a money maker. If they really cared about stopping DUI's in this country they would make the punishment much more harsh. I say anything over .12 is an automatic 30 day jail sentence. Would it ruin some people's lives? yep... The story would get out quick and people would soon change their ways. That's jmo though...
#gmstrong
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Just a pointer, if you actually do go to court and explain this to the prosecutor, you can most likely get the seat belt part dismissed.
Yeah, the problem was I would have had to get up early, wake up my daughter, who at the time would have only been 6 months old, and either find someone to watch her or bring her with me. Then rush home, get ready for work, only to go back that way again in a little while.
I just gave in. I should have fough it, though.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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I will always question the government, its the way I was raised, and I thought for along time, that it was what this country was about. Anymore, I am disillusioned with America. There aren't any outlaws anymore.  Money has conquered the spirit of America.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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DUI is nothing but a money maker. If they really cared about stopping DUI's in this country they would make the punishment much more harsh. I say anything over .12 is an automatic 30 day jail sentence. Would it ruin some people's lives? yep... The story would get out quick and people would soon change their ways. That's jmo though...
So, the guy/gal that gets busted at .13, for example, should be able o have their lives ruined, but I'm not allowed to shoot someone that breaks into my house? And if I do and don't kill them, I can be held reponsible?
Thank goodness the castle law doctine will be enacted soon in Ohio.
Sorry, but my grandpa was killed by a drunk driver. I have -actually HAD, 2 friends that were killed by a drunk driver - in Kansas - I've seen it, felt it, and yes, I have a dui conviction myself.
There's a difference - people that cause an accident need to be punished. People that disobey the alcohol limit need to be punished - but ruin their lives? Sorry, if an accident doesn't happen, I don't see the point in ruining someones life. Punish them, yes.
You may see it differently, and if so, fine. But if you do, be prepared to have your life ruined because you were speeding and an accident happened, or because you were on a cell phone and an accident happened.
Am I crazy? No, it already has come to that. Plus, studies have shown that talking on a cell phone while driving impairs a driver just as much as driving with a .08 or higher BAC - wonder what people will say about putting cell phone users in jail and ruining their lives. Are you for that, if they haven't caused an accident?
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I don't think you should be punished unless you actually get into an accident.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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I believe that anyone who talk's on there phone wile driving should be find ! Ive seen it to much out here, wreck's because the person was on the phone.
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Then you must think that you shouldn't be punished for pulling a gun on someone unless you pull the trigger. Same thing, you endanger lives with your actions.
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I don't believe so, cuz when pulling a gun there is intent to kill/maim/intimidate. No one drinks a few beers and then gets into their ride with the intention of wrecking it.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Then you must think that you shouldn't be punished for pulling a gun on someone unless you pull the trigger. Same thing, you endanger lives with your actions.
Amen! if you do the crime...do the time.
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I don't believe so, cuz when pulling a gun there is intent to kill/maim/intimidate. No one drinks a few beers and then gets into their ride with the intention of wrecking it.
Do you think it's more probable that they will wreck the car if they get drunk and drive?
you had a good run Hank.
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I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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So you ignore science in the quest to be an "outlaw".
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No
Fair enough.
I think you're wrong, but I can respect you for being consistant.
you had a good run Hank.
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Okay! I know what you are getting at , but come on! You know there is a chance of getting in a wreck if you are drunk, ?Dont give me that crap! You are too smart for that.
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I still don't know what this "science" is; nor how its being applied.
Also, I think that any analogy between being in an automobile after 3-4 beers and shooting someone is completely ridiculous.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Do you think it's more probable that they will wreck the car if they get drunk and drive?
I just want to reply to this...and my answer is also no. People who aren't drunk fall asleep, swerve when they drop something, don't concentrate when they're on the phone, hit animals, etc. Any of those things could be just as fatal as drunk drivers that get into accidents.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955 |
Quote:
You know there is a chance of getting in a wreck if you are drunk,
Shotty, there's a chance of getting in a wreck if you are sober, too.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659
Poser
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Poser
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659 |
Putting someone's life in danger by being impaired is the same as putting someone's life in danger by having a weapon. The only thing ridiculous is claiming that being impaired actually makes you a safer driver. Denial is an ugly thing. Studies have been shown that PROVE that being impaired negatively affects a person's ability to drive safely. You don't know of them because you don't want to believe the resutls.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,276
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,276 |
Quote:
Quote:
Do you think it's more probable that they will wreck the car if they get drunk and drive?
I just want to reply to this...and my answer is also no. People who aren't drunk fall asleep, swerve when they drop something, don't concentrate when they're on the phone, hit animals, etc. Any of those things could be just as fatal as drunk drivers that get into accidents.
I see what you are getting at, But I think he mean's that if you are sobber are the chance's just as likely? correct me if im wrong?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955 |
Personally, I think they should make talking AT ALL while driving illegal. I was behind an older couple the other day and the driver had to keep looking at the passenger as they talked. Talk about bobbing and weaving all over the road.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,276
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,276 |
Quote:
Personally, I think they should make talking AT ALL while driving illegal. I was behind an older couple the other day and the driver had to keep looking at the passenger as they talked. Talk about bobbing and weaving all over the road.
LOL! I know what you mean! 
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