DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Derek Anderson.......Still on the hot seat?

makes sense to me when it's compounded on top of other issues. edwards gets the face time. savage says edwards' contract more priority and winslow's is on the backburner. you know something i noticed? when they were first playing together, winslow and edwards were always congratulating each other on the field after a touchdown pass or whatever. remember the steelers game where edwards almost caught a hail mary in the endzone from frye? there was winslow consoling him for a long time. now? they never do anything for each other on the field. at most, weak low fives. there's something there.

with winslow seeing that edwards is now the star, he loses value and he needs value for the new contract he wants. then winslow sees the team succeed in a huge way on mnf without him. he starts demanding more balls and edwards sees it as winslow taking opportunities from him. sounds like bad co-existing to me. what if only one of them made the pro-bowl? would be even worse.

U know good and well if there was a BE thread DA's name would be in every other post.
And I would be included in that somewhere..

whoa whoa, no cheap trick. you could've just said DA. "your qb" is quite divisive. you're labeling me as a DA-er on this board, which i don't want to have any part of. I'm neutral and I want the best qb to start. just because i still believe that DA can get the job done doesn't make him "my qb" while you and others on this board clamor for quinn.

i have no intent on saying who a better fan is. it's a pointless topic. if you looked at any of my posts, there has been no mud slinging, only points made.

Well that was not my intent and I'm glad we cleared that up.

sceptre, you came back witha long response so excuse me if i can't address everything from my desk.

to put it very simply, i'm willing to give any qb a mulligan for the first 4 games of the season. to me, our offense was extremely weakened and i don't think many qbs could've succeeded. we're not a rookie team but we're also not a veteran team. our OC was out thinking himself, our top receiver was not the downfield threat nor could he catch the simple balls, teams were neutralizing winslow, and we had a 2nd receiver who was a practice squad guy. further, our running game wasn't scaring any of the (at the time) top defenses that we played. knowing that DA isn't the most accurate qb yet we couldn't complete passes longer than 10 yards, what could we have expected? those numbers, of course would be terrible. factor in all the other drawbacks (injuries, lack of continuity in practice because of them, etc), i didn't expect a pretty first 4 games. look at how much HOFers peyton and marvin are struggling after the terrible preseason they have and what hope did we have for our team?

that said, to me, my evaluation is on how DA got better. he was more patient in the pocket, forced less passes as a whole, and showed he had improved in throwing accuracy. examples would be the dumpoffs to vickers that usually went for 8-10 from 2 yards out. basically, he honed his tools. now we just need to see consistency in the mental aspects that are holding him back at the moment. if he can do that, i think he can be special.

i did watch the game on sunday. i was just as frustrated as anyone else. i had recorded the game and found myself FF'ing through a lot of it because i just couldn't take it. that said, qbs'll have bad days and his cast didn't help him. crennel said that the supporting cast wasn't quite there and i agree with him. i think our line really misses tucker. too many batted passes on the right side. some on DA? of course, but some on the line too. people dropping passes. winslow looked like he was jogging out there half the time and edwards dropped passes, DA couldn't get into the a rythmn until 4th quarter and even then, we were in a position to win/tie because of the defense and last minute play. do i think that's good enough for the future? no, but i think DA can still get better.

we also have different definitions of veteran. i don't think 1.5 years starting is a vet. i don't consider players like edwards or winslow vets either.

Quote:

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He absolutely has all the tools, but what says he's going to polish the skills that make those tools useless? He hasn't so far.

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Yes he has.

i had to re-read your post to make sure we were on the same page but i think we are. i'm not thinking of success in W's and L's.

instead, i look at the whole body. i think his throws got better all around. additionally, i think he's making better decisions. not great, but definitely better. i think that, if he found himself in this situation last year, he'd have many more interceptions. the problem though, is how do we know he was inaccurate? i can think of instances where anderson hit steptoe on a curl, right on the guy's hands, and steptoe just drops it. what can any quarterback do in that type of instance? are you going to throw to steptoe the next chance you get? or do you go to edwards, who dropped a ball a couple throws back? or do you go to winslow who was blanketed by a linebacker and a safety? or are you forced to dump it off to vickers/lewis for a yard? what can we really expect in these situations? all that said, we don't even know if steptoe/winslow/edwards have been running the right routes enough. finally, who was the third receiver in all this? cribbs? a kent state qb turned kickoff specialist? what qb can succeed in these conditions? and this is in addition to the fact that our pro bowl players haven't been playing at a pro bowl level.

if you can see these points from my POV, then i feel better judging DA from the last two games. DA played great on MNF and terrible on sunday. i think sunday will be a huge indicator of what we have in him. there really aren't any excuses left for him and he needs to have a big game. let's see if he responds through the negativity and distractions of this week.

i think his throws got better and i fully expect to see a "good DA" this sunday. if we don't, then we can tell we're closer to the end of the DA book. if we do, we start seeing indicators for why he's up and down. process of elimination. you don't eliminate the QB first, you do it last imho.

i think his throws got better and i fully expect to see a "good DA" this sunday


I know we are going to see "a good" one because (1) Winslow won't be disrupting the huddle;

(2) BE will pour his guts out in the absence of KW,...and (3) it's the nature of

the DA roller coaster of inconsistency.

I really don't see it your way at all.

I keep seeing a pattern of balls thrown way over WR's heads, at RB's feet, etc........

With the ONLY acception being the Giants game.

And IF the WR's are ALL running the wrong routes?

We have a coaching problem.

I'm not trying to be callus, but the reality is, that the NFL is a business. Most can see an obvious weakness at the very fundamental ingrediant that helps make an NFL QB. Accuracy.

If we don't agree on that, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree IMO

i think that there's an emotional aspect as fans so we remember different things. in truth, both what i described and what you described happened. it's just what comes to mind first. i absolutely remember those throws and it agitated me too but i remember the good things first. personally, i just look for improvement so if i see it, then i'm satisfied. sure it may not translate to more W's but if the improvement exists, i have hope the player can string everything together and become a great player. maybe i'm too easily satisfied in that regard but i don't think we can ask for anything more than improvement. it's when there's regression, and not just simply an interception was thrown (because there are too many factors that play into each down), when there's a problem.

example, in week two, DA throws a bomb to edwards that edwards had to lay out to catch and rolled into the endzone. as great a play that was, fans cite that as a example of how DA is actually terrible and only by edwards' great play did he succeed. fast foward to mnf where the same situation came up and DA throws it a little shorter, causing edwards to slightly slow down to catch it before he runs and gets tackled short of the endzone. now fans say he was so innaccurate because he couldn't lead edwards in for a score. when asked, DA says (paraphrasing) "yea, i could've thrown it a little farther for a score but i wanted to put it so i knew that edwards could catch it." to me, that quote says "i want to make sure edwards didn't drop it and i remember what happened against cinci in week 2 last year and how the fans chewed me out for that throw." in my mind, this is an example of how fans will never be satisfied and will see whatever they want to see. because of that, i don't take a "this qb isn't good enough" seriously if i can see improvement, however small.

i think we can agree to disagree but at least we see each other's side.

j/c
Frankly, anyone who thinks this team will not miss a healthy Winslow (that is able to practice with his team the week before any game) is an idiot.

After reading numerous posts ripping KW2 for what is essentially telling the truth I felt that had to be said. If this team had half a dozen Winslows we'd be a damn site better off.

As far as DA goes.....if his performance in the first half of the Cincy game and his performance last week don't get him yanked nothing will, short of a compound fracture. On the hot seat? On a normal team, yes. On this one, sadly, no.

So, you are obviously in the know about what happened with Winslow...feel like sharing?

If the truth ever gets out to the media, there are gonna be alot of posters spouting off about Savage and supporting Winslow that's going to look really stupid.

CoachB,

From your sources, do you know if Chud/RAC have given DA the authority to audible? If so, does he ever change the play at the line?

Sun,
We might want to ask if DA even sees the safeties coming into the "box" and that it means that one of his receivers has man on man coverage! I mean the redskin safety was just camped out in the box on first down and DA would not audible out of the run!!

I'll leave the KW comments for the KW thread..it appears to me that on the road our OC is keeping a leash on DA..
For the Skins to throw 8 in the box at the oddset and continue to throw 5+ defenders on the line and we don't attack that smacks the OC is leary of opening it up on the road..

Every year since we have come back in 99 we have had a quaterback problem. First it was Tim Couch then Kelly Holcomb, and then we had some other schmuck named Jeff Garcia, Then we thought Charlie Fry was going to be the answer. Now where in the same situation with Derrick Anderson and Brady Quinn. I have seen Derrick have big games and ... games more on the crappy side. I have yet to see the Great Brady take the field in battle. I don't know if he will be our savior on the Football Field. (BUT WHY NOT SEE WHAT HE CAN DO!!!!!!)

"Now, if you want to blow off my count because I can't tell you precisely what down it was, and what the time on the clock was, fine. I understand that."

Don't mistake actually wanting to know the FACTS for my intent to blow off your count. If you've been around the boards you know not to go by anyones account as the sole source of things. Especially one who can't describe them precisely. I could care less on the actually down or time...at least what qtr should do and the description I seek would be of the play. Route, where the throw was, etc. you know an actually account. I don't really understand this "MY COUNT" thing you speak of? What you watch the game and use stick figures next to each name to signify a drop and as long as you made the accounting of it thats it. How do we know your version of a drop is accurate? Don't take this personal.

All I would like to be is EDUCATED...you saying you know its five but don't have a clue on the play and trust you. Sorry, I can put that in the bank that a poster THINKS there is 5 but not in the bank of actually happening. Especially when the official number is 4...already there is a discrepency. Does this make any sense. again don't get mad, I'm just trying to explain myself.

"because as Edwards admitted, he dropped the ball because his head wasn't in the game. Because his head wasn't in the game, he failed to read a blitz pickup. Who knows what else he did wrong during the game because he essentially quit on the team during the game. Then there's the confidence factor on Anderson's behalf. We all know he needs help from his receivers. If he doesn't have any confidence that Edwards will catch the ball, it'd be tough to argue that such a thing wouldn't creep into a QB's head."

Sorry I think you have this all backwards.

This "poor DA" stuff has to stop.

The scenario that you just described. BE's head wasn't in there. WHY?

Cause DA SUCKED! Its called Leadership and the Franchise QB you want is to make everyone around you Better...NOT WORSE. DA has the "ANTI-IT" leadership qualities. I'm not cadoning BE's lackluster performance...but this all goes into the file of DA as well as BE. It is DA's duty as a starting QB to make everyones performance better...not worse.

Was BE's head not in it cause of Girl problems? Financial problems? Canceled endorsement problems? No his head wasn't in it cause his QB came out and Sucked it up....AGAIN.

You don't call out the WR and state see, its not as much as DA's fault as you presume...but it is. Its not all about starting out 3-17 and having around 3 passes dropped in that time frame. Like 35% is better on short high percentage passes.

It was the fact that we had a game plan and prepared for it. And it was obvious to all that it was correct and there. WRs were open, they were playing the D we expected. Plays were to be had but we had DA doing terrible with a game plan that Matt Cassel would of probably passed with 70% completions. Johnson of Dallas, 70%....Collins of Titans...you know all the Backups playing the game. Well Johnson might be a stretch...his days have come n gone I think.

But who put BE state of mind in that not there state? Leadership is a big, BIG part of the position. Just another reason why DA ain't our Franchise QB.

JMHO

The most disturbing thing is how obvious it is that the Browns offensive staff sees DA's issues and actually plan for them.....I dont understand what else has to happen before somebody grows a pair and puts Quinn in.

We made mistake with DA and his big contract....it happens....bench him and MOVE ON.

Glad to see you back. Was beginning to worry about you. Don't tell me, your computer broke?

Much to the dismay of many, DA isn't going anywhere for a bit yet, but he's about at the end of his rope IMO.

He didn't have anything to complain about after the Giants win, so ther was no need to post.

I didn't want to say that, but I did reference WorldChamps if you remember it.

sorry, eo, but completely disagree.

it's funny, during all the success last year, people were saying it wasn't DA but it was all of the spectacular catches by BE. now that BE isn't making the catches, it's DA's fault for not keeping BE's mind on the game? please.

we don't know why BE hasn't been focused but we do know that's something he's known for. DA's job isn't to make sure BE is always on top of his game. that's BE's and the coaching staff's job. just like it's DA's job and scherer's job to make sure DA brings it. it's the OC's job to call the plays that allow DA and BE to feed off another and get into rythmn.

i'm sure you of all people know this but you can yell at someone as much as you want but you're not going to make them focus more. not equating leadership with yelling but there is only so much you can do to influence another person. i can sit at my computer and yell at you all i want, i can try to make you like me, i can try to make you focus but if you don't want to, there is nothing i can do. to say that DA needs to be some sort of god who can reach into BE's head and make him focus and guise that under "leadership" is rediculous.

citing matt cassel? really? how about his "respectable" performance against a terrible broncos defense was at the help of 130 yards on the ground in the first half? the bronco's front seven is a joke and he still took 5 sacks in that first half. then baily goes down and you expect moss to be covered? yet you see something there. the rest of the offense does their job and a nobody can have a decent outting. maybe if our receivers could catch the ball and develop rythmn, maybe DA would be decent. i'd like to see the last time we had over 100 yards rushing in the first half. doubt we lost one of those games...

maybe if JJ was healthy, we have a legitimate no. 2 who is blue collar and can 1) run to the middle of the field without being afraid of getting hit and 2) have a solid veteran presence in practice to keep the wr's working hard in practice (like we expected stallworth to provide that ). this team misses JJ way more than his top number of clutch 3rd down catches and i'm sure DA would be the first one to admit it. it's hard to get into rythmn if you don't have a receiver who can catch on 3rd down. stallworth has...4 catches this year so far.

no disrespect intended eo because i remember you were quite fair to the DA/quinn thing but it's clear you lost patience for DA and this post seemed more angry than logical.

This should be good. Especially with the "huge" contract Anderson was given.


Ddubia, I got t. In fact, I have wondered if he was McAndre back posing as a Browns fan.

j/c...

With Anderson's new contract, wasn't most of his money in the 3rd year?

IIRC, you're right. Read your PM to see if it makes this more clear.

It is....most know that.

Anyone think Stallworth might be a contributing factor in BE's lack of concentration? I mean have you seen them on the sidelines during the game, Stallworth and him always seem to be f#$%ng around. After the bare foot incident, and BE's extreme lack of focus I am beginning to wonder if Donte is BE's big distraction.

BE's Mom:

"Braylon... I'm your Momma, and you need to listen to me. There's nobody on this planet who loves you more than I do, and I only have your best interests at heart. You stay away from that Stallworth boy down the street. Since that family's moved into the neighborhood, he's been nothing but a bad influence on you...."

[BE] aw, Mooooooooom...

[BE's Dad] Oh shoot, woman. Let the boy play with who he wants. The kid's got skills, and Bray's gotta have some frien-

[Mom] Oh shutup, Stan!!!

Was on vacation...there is life outside of message board banter.....who knew?

Yes, I was WRONG about the Giants game, it showed how much talent this team has...and since we beat them...we are as good as SB champs right? Start giving out lifetime extensions!

We need more games like those...and right now.....We need to come out the fiery and ready every week...and that minor thing called QB play...but yep I was wrong about that game!






As for the DA issue...3 yrs $24mil...is it mega money? Nope...but it was way more than he was worth...it was a mistake...we coulda paid him nothing more than the one year tender....we were afraid of only gettin a 1st and 3rd.

It was a huge deal considering we coulda paid him the tender...and had a one year lease on him...and waited to see on the offers from other teams...and if need be we coulda matched somebody elses offer.

We made the wrong decision and thats ok...it happens and it was a worth gamble...but it isnt working out...clearly!

DA has shown over and over what he is....inconsistent...a teasing talent....hind sight is 20/20 of course...and mistakes happen...but Phil attempting to save face over it and killing the team over that?

Derek Anderson is our starting QB because of his contract..and his performance early last season....not recent performance...CF was run out of town for similar feats by this very staff. DA will continue to be good one week and awful the next and we will continue to play sub .500 ball...It pretty clear that whether or not DA sucks...he will play.....

And please don't tell me that we trying to play DA in hopes of trading him...every week his value just keeps on falling...and dont tell me Quinn shouldnt play either...he would be coming into a great situation with decent playmakers and a great OL.

Why DA is the starting QB..IMO...is simply Phil hoping DA will turn it around and make the move look good......but right now...JMHO...DA is not giving us the "best chance" to win football games...

As much as I dont see RAC as the "guy"...he is clearly not the one calling the shots about the QB situation...and he shouldnt be shouldering the whole blame for DA playing...I cant see any coach allowing the kind that of play unless his boss is telling him otherwise.