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Theres only one thing for certain..the Browns had to rescind the suspension...thats the bottom line...its says it all....its indisputable.
Incorrect. The Browns DID rescind the suspension, but whether or not they HAD to IS still very disputable.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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jc
I dont see anyone changing anyone's mind here, I can see a ref lockdown on this thread before too long. It is serving very little purpose. IMO, I think there is enough fault to go around and it certainly looks unprofessional.
It's almost Thursday and I'm getting geared up for the rats game. Phooey on KW, his grapefruits and whoever's fault it is LOL..
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
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You don't have to wonder if you'd take the blinders off that blame Savage and Co. for everything under the sun. It has been explained to you a hundred times but you refuse to see it. The Browns couldn't reveal anything BECAUSE OF HIPPA LAWS. Therefore, they settled the situation. You ignore that Savage was negotiating the settelement on THURSDAY and found out about the texts days later. You ingore the HIPPA laws handcuffed what could be said in the arbitration hearing. You ignore that KW2, paid a fine. You ignore that he still sat out the game. "Wonder why?" 
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All Pro
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Very clever acronym, except that it is spelled HIPAA (Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act). So you might want to change your sig!!
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Quote:
It's almost Thursday and I'm getting geared up for the rats game. Phooey on KW, his grapefruits and whoever's fault it is LOL..
Word fellow Dawg  
#gmstrong
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Don't know. Don't really care. And for the purpose of this discussion it really doesn't matter, now does it?
Yes it does matter. Your saying the Browns have a staff problem. Now if you were saying Ohio, and the rest of the United States has a staff problem, then I would agree, but your not. Your acting as if it's only a Browns problem and your dead wrong bud.
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The discussion (from my POV) is not about what kind of infection it was or where he got it. It's about the ham-handed way this was handled by the FO and to a greater extent by KW2 himself.
I changed one word to make that closer to the truth for ya
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Quote:
Very clever acronym, except that it is spelled HIPAA (Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act). So you might want to change your sig!!
Crap, you're right. I was going off of what the other posts here were using. 
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Sorry, you're dead wrong. The Browns have had too many cases for a non-medical facility. We may argue about the size of the problem but that doesn't mean there isn't one.
You are right about one thing. It does appear they have a STAFF problem as well as a STAPH problem. Glad you pointed that out.......
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Legend
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Quote:
You are right about one thing. It does appear they have a STAFF problem as well as a STAPH problem. Glad you pointed that out.......
 Ok you got me on that screw up 
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Sorry, you're dead wrong. The Browns have had too many cases for a non-medical facility. We may argue about the size of the problem but that doesn't mean there isn't one.
Just how many of the STAPH infections did the Browns players get at one of the Browns facilities?
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Done arguing, bud. You know you're not gonna admit you're wrong and I'm obviously not so what's the point?
But there is a problem and the Browns know it or they wouldn't have tried to cover this one up. It may be a very small problem compared to the one the Rams (I think it was STL) had a few years ago but that doesn't make it non-existant.
But this episode is essentially over and done with. So I say we let it die.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Legend
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Ya wanna use a gun, knife, or noose (looking over my shoulder for Al Sharpton) 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I think the staff will kill it.......
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Is the staff infection, responsible for the staph infections?
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I don't know. Anyone stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night? Maybe they can tell us....... 
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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The only reason I keep posting is that I'm getting tired of seeing a few guys try to rewrite history on here. Other than that I could not care less who got what from whom.
And some of us are TIRED of trying to get you guys on the correct viewpoint.
If you don't want to hear the facts and consider what it points to ..then don't post about it..simple as that..
Fact is you and those blaming Phil don't want to know how and where he got it because if you did, it makes you look foolish..
Heldawg didn't even respond to me..his article doesn't prove nothing..
Tell me why don't you and others dwell on the fact that Phil asks that if Winslow admits the staph, he fully disclose how it came about so the Browns aren't cast in bad light.
I'll tell you why..because you got caught up in the suspension and the player..
Player tried to play his trump card to get what he wanted..if he grandstands after all that happened, they would move him..
Phil's smart enough to know that if he sent texts stating specifically that K2 shouldn't talk about staph, that those texts would be brought out in any grievance and that making several public announcements to the contrary would make him look completely foolish when the texts became public.
Winslow is ticked at the Browns for no new contract, and being shopped..EVEN though he said the thought crossed his mind..in other words, HE and his agent didn't orgistrate the trade..
And why did Mr.Hypocrite not FIGHT THE FINE???
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 10/30/08 09:27 AM.
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Some people always have to go against the "authority". Sometimes it's warranted, but when they feel the need to do it EVERYTIME something comes up, they look silly.
It's very evident what went on here, but they'll just keep closing their eyes and refusing to listen to reason...and then accuse others of what they are so obviously doing themselves.
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Maybe we should pierce them through
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in other words, what those that are backing k2 are saying, is essentially that:
i can injure my back while planting trees in my back yard over the weekend, then i can claim workman's comp on monday and get paid.
man, its so easy....cant believe it took me this long.
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Legend
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All the other stuff is secondary.
The fact is Winslow was suspended by the team for actions it felt were unwarranted.
Then it is lifted because maybe he didn't do anything that warranted a game suspension.
Had the team simply jumped his case and fined him in the first place, I probably wouldn't have said anything.
If all of these 'facts" some claim are true, whatever they are, the suspension would have never been lifted by the Browns and they would have just let it go to the NFL office if need be.
Suffice to say, there was some blame to spread all around....from the player to the GM.
At this point, they have figured it out, so that is good enough for me.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Legend
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"While possibly true, I have seen this reported no where so to me it falls under the assumption category."
regarding KW2 being shopped around.
Actually it was reported by Adam Schefter of the NFL Network. He stated while there was a big todo about Gonzo being shopped what has flown under the radar is the fact that silently the Browns have been shopping around KW2.
So you can chalk up one of your Assumption categories into the Fact pile.
As Dawg Michelle stated the text thing is so irrelevant when you consider the FACTs that we do know...not rumors but fact.
He conceived the Infection from some action done during the Bye week and when the players had about 4 days off to themselves. This has been stated as fact and has not been denied by the Winslow camp.
For him to blatantly state something that he knew would HURT the TEAM, CLUB, Organization was the jist of this entire matter. Not us asking him to not mention the words Staph...look around the league. PR people are using that as a dirty word all over the league. Brady have Staph in his surgical knee...you bet but quietly stated as "INFECTION" , Manning had a 2nd surgery due to complications of a Staph Infection...you bet but quietly stated as an "INFECTION" and covered it up as long as possible.
But there is more being made of this - OFF FOOTBALL conception of Staph Infection cause of the manner in which it was presented.
No local writers except that one guy Heldawg quoted...which btw proved nothing.
No local writers backing KW2...but CNN is hailing him as a Knight in Shining Armor.
No team member...not a one has backed him in his supposed quest of protecting his fellow teamates Just how can that be? Unless they actually know How and When. And there are probably more than a few board members who actually have some round about contacts within the players/coaches ranks who do know also.
There were - REPORTS...little more than rumor about KW2's testicles. How soon we forget, a couple of suspected ailments by the media were put out there including something about him being tested for Testicular Cancer...I know and remember well cause I commented how I just had an old college friend pass away from Testicular Cancer and was hoping that KW2 caught it in time.
Heldawg...talk about SMOKING GUNS...you totally are missing the real smoking guns! Hmmmm...I wonder if you ever won a game of CLUE? lol
Now I'll throw a little more Fuel On the Fire.
You know what is disturbing me most of all now. As this all is coming out - I have gone back to the recollections of the Redskin game. Hopefully some of you have TAPE and can verify this.
There were two occasions.
1. For a First Down.
2. For a TD.
In both cases KW2 caught the ball within a yard of the needed mark.
In both cases KW2 was hit immediately.
In both cases KW2 had no overwhelming interference on the upper half of his body.
In both cases KW2 went Straight DOWN upon contact like a fighter being hit with a knockout punch.
In both cases I thought KW2 could have easily fell forward and at least show some fight for extra yardage let alone the 2 feet needed for a first n a TD respectively.
At the time I felt sorry for KW2...cause I was thinking....WOW, I didn't realize how weak KW2 was from all this, maybe he shouldn't be playing.
But now in hindsight both plays as I visually see him drop straight DOWN as not to struggle one bit for extra yards. I'm wondering about his commitment to the Browns!
Its actually disgusting the more I think about it.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
He conceived the Infection from some action done during the Bye week
I am sorry EO......you just don't know that. Nobody knows that, just like we don't know if all the others got their staph in Berea.
The CDC tracks things down by a process of elimination and looking for common events when people get poisoned or a hepatitis of some sort. Many times you can pin it down, but many times it is a matter of making your best guess.
Anyway...I think it is a forgone conclusion Winslow is moved in the offseason.
These mid season trades rarely ever work out. How much value he has...who knows?? He may have limited value in a straight up deal, but I would have to think he would be a real nice sweetener in a trade-up deal...Winslow and a 3rd might get you in to the first round...
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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This is hilarious...how the fans jump on players...and yet accept garbage from the FO and staff......now Winslow isnt committed to the Browns...hes the reason DA is bad...hes a cancer. Just cut him...and every other player who Phil does not like....or anybody who asks for a new deal. While we are at cut BE..and Vickers who threw his hands up after DA missed him...SUSPEND HIS BUTT NOW! Cuz as we all know..every NFL player is a rich spoiled punk...whereas the FO and Coaches are always great people...since they are not rich and spoiled like the players. We only get to hear from one side of this...thats the Browns....it all makes perfect sense....KW2 wanted to hide his staph infection with rumors about an STD... Classic! 
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Not asking you eo, just asking in general. Quote:
He conceived the Infection from some action done during the Bye week and when the players had about 4 days off to themselves. This has been stated as fact and has not been denied by the Winslow camp.
How can they deny otherwise? Unless anyone can come and go as they please at team facilities?
Go Irish!
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Legend
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"you just don't know that. Nobody knows that"
Say What  I got news for you...Savage knows that, KW2 knows that, RAC knows that. Almost all of his teamates KNOW THAT...so don't say "NOBODY" knows that. Actually in your OPINION you DON'T KNOW THAT...so in your world it doesn't exist.
Savage in his presser stated it.
KW2 and his camp never denied it.
Sorry to me 2+2 = 4 I don't know about your math.
True...rarely is there a mid-season trade.
Actually I think if we could push that trade deadline clock forward to include now...maybe we could make a straight up deal with the 49ers
But you're right.
"I think it is a forgone conclusion Winslow is moved in the offseason.
These mid season trades rarely ever work out. How much value he has...who knows?? He may have limited value in a straight up deal, but I would have to think he would be a real nice sweetener in a trade-up deal...Winslow and a 3rd might get you in to the first round."
Actually I'll be happy to get from late 2nd round into the top of the 2nd or late first by using KW2. Thats about it. Draft day trade as the day develops.
We'll see.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Legend
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Other questions for someone in the know...
How long does it take for the infection to manifest into the type of thing a person would notice above and beyond a minor nick or cut?
How long can the staph hibernate on items before not having a host kills it?? Can it survive in a t-shirt several days?? A can lid??
Some seem set on this bye week and off days..I don't think it had to happen in that window...if it had, it might have been showing up just last week v the week before.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Well on my own experience...got a Staph Infection on the forearm close to the elbow.
And it was my fault as I wussed out in not properly scrubbing and cleaning a wound received sliding home head first. (was 25) at the time.
It took roughly 48 hours before my arm started to swell up and I went to the doctor (friend of the family) and all he had to do was look at it and know...he yelled at me and called me a few names and told me that I could have lost my arm.
I took the antibiotics...and it was gone. I do have a scar.
I never took his "lose the arm" bit seriously until all of this stuff occurred and realized it was serious stuff.
Look also read between the lines stuff. It was mentioned that we gave seminar's on this stuff for the players during their off time to be vigilant on. This was in one of the first pressers regarding this matter. Again was not denied by the KW2 camp.
All roads point away from Berea.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
All roads point away from Berea.
JMHO
This is a point that, I think, is overlooked. How many of the staph's occurred after surgeries? Perhaps the player stopped by the facility after being released and caught it here (or it could be anywhere in between); but it seems many had not been released yet and had to have a 2nd surgery to 'clean' the staph out.
Peen - To answer, to the best of my knowledge, a staph infection once in you and one that your body can't kill, takes less than 48 hours to show symptoms. Once it has a foothold I believe it takes very little time to get into the danger zone. I know people personally who went to bed with a 'small bump' on the elbow only to wake up three to four hours later with a tennis ball sized lump that required immediate treatment (drained then shot full of antibiotics).
One other thing; I thought the 'trade rumors' were more about teams inquiring about K2 and not us 'actively shopping him'? Big difference, imo. Perhaps K2 hears we were shopping him and was somewhat po'd about it and it was just another straw in the whole situation, don't know, don't care at this point; he is here until the end of the season at least. I don't want to get rid of him, but he needs to think more about the team before spouting off. Rather than hide behind it as an excuse/reason. There are better ways to inform the team about the issue. Going to the press is the wrong way.
eo - I saw both those plays you are referring to; and thought similar things about him being less than 100%, nothing about lack of desire though. Just think he may be slightly worn down from all this (mentally and physically). Still somewhat weak from the infection and thus not 100%. Unaware of exactly where he was and thus not quick enough to react and reach for the 1st down and/or TD. I almost put it in your 'what I saw' thread but thought it might hi-jack it so I scrapped the whole entry. Plus my 'what I saw' thoughts can get very extended.
Statistics are like a bikini; what they show is interesting, but what they hide is vital.
Drive for show (1st round), Putt for dough (rest of draft).
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It's easy to see certain people when they have their mind made up regardless of whats presented..choose to follow a certain direct .
It's almost like some of you don't WANT to see it any other way.
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I;m not saying KW2 wasnt extremely immature about this whole thing...he was...he handled it badly...certainly worthy of a fine(which he got). When you look at both sides story...the Browns story of things just doesnt add up....why would KW2 want his staph kept secret? Why would he rather have rumors about an STD come out? The Browns are the ones that have every reason in the world to keep the staph infection secret...and have a beef with winslow over the contract issues. The Browns have more reason to keep this thing quiet than Winlsow did.......when KW2 came out and said something...the Browns were suprsied...they suspended him right away. If they werent the ones holding KW2 back then why would he have waited so long? If KW2 wanted this kept secret..then why did he ever say anything? We would all still think he had elephantitis or and STD! Stuff doesnt add up...once the suspension was handed down...KW2's camp found some stuff...and the Browns knew the suspension wouldnt hold up...so they agreed to just a fine. Ahd the Browns pushed it...they would have looked dumb by gettign thier suspensio over turned...which would mean the Browns would have zero respect from the players. Now we only get to hear what Phil has to say...we dont get KW2's side of it. It just does not make sense...what Phil is saying...and his version! 1. Why would KW2 want to keep the staph secret? 2. If he did...then why come out and say anything?...as rumors were flying rampant about other things. 3. Why would he rip into the Browns if he was the one that didnt wanna talk? 4. Why wouldnt the Browns dig alittle deeper into the issue before suspending him? If its as they say! Both sides for one...WERE HIGHLY immature....BOTH SIDES! I disagree...but dont think that the other side shouldnt be allowed to have an opinion....it really wouldnt be fun if we all agreed!
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When you look at both sides story...the Browns story of things just doesnt add up....why would KW2 want his staph kept secret? Why would he rather have rumors about an STD come out?
Ya know why it doesn't add up to you?
You won't use the math formula needed to figure it.
How many times has it been posted WHY he AGREED to keep it secret ?
How many times have you ignored it?
Neither he nor the Browns wanted RUMORS floating around how he got it.
He got embarrased on several fronts..one because the rumors came out..so now there's some explaining to do..so now he's desperate to make a stand..and make the Browns look bad.
Secondly ..he was shopped ..
BTW the Browns don't have to dig to find anything out..they already know how he got it..and he knows..
I really don't feel like reposting what you can already read and decided to reject within this thread..the answers are there..every single question that KEEPS being repeated has been answered in various posts..repeated again and again...but no one can make you see it.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 10/30/08 01:26 PM.
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Quote:
1. Why would KW2 want to keep the staph secret?
maybe he did not want anyone to know how he got it.
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2. If he did...then why come out and say anything?...as rumors were flying rampant about other things.
let's assume that how he got the staph is embarassing to him, and he wanted people to stop speculating in the media and elsewhere. if he mentions staph, that ends the speculation about the other illnesses. under HIPAA, if he doesn't want anyone to know how he got the staph, it can't be disclosed. also, by disclosing his illness as a staph infection, it lays the blame at the feet of the browns instead of on winslow and how he contracted staph. it's been noted several times that it was during the bye week and not at the browns facility (although that was clearly the implication made by winslow's camp given the brown's recent history with staph).
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3. Why would he rip into the Browns if he was the one that didnt wanna talk?
maybe he was upset about not getting a new contract or how things went down at the trading deadline.
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4. Why wouldnt the Browns dig alittle deeper into the issue before suspending him? If its as they say!
i'm pretty sure the browns know exactly what the issue relates to, they are just handcuffed under HIPAA in what they are allowed to say or disclose related to the issue. i will admit that the PR person that texted winslow not to disclose the staph infection was out of line, especially if he did not contract it at the facility. once that text came out, i can see how that severely damaged there case for the suspension. as an aside, if the PR person really sent that message under the direction of phil savage, do you really think that the browns would have gone ahead and suspended winslow? i mean phil would have to know it would look damaging to the browns, and that there would be a record of it. that says to me that phil truly didn't know about the text at the time of the suspension.
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Both sides for one...WERE HIGHLY immature....BOTH SIDES!
one side has to deal with this issue with two hands tied behind their back by HIPAA. what should they have done? let winslow imply that the browns have a staph problem even though he has not indicated that he caught the staph from football related activities or even in berea? the only mistake the browns made in my mind was the PR person who sent the message to winslow, that's just idiotic. but i don't see how you can hang that on phil savage for the reasons mentioned above.
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the only mistake the browns made in my mind was the PR person who sent the message to winslow, that's just idiotic
It's been documented how the PR's are in the locker room, they flank players as they are being interviewed..they're always around..so this comes at no shock.
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Wasn't part of the suspension about him verbally abusing a staff member (funny just typing that lol) with obscene language?
also he really did seem mad that Phil didn't visit him. So maybe that had a little to do with all this.
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Legend
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Quote:
Cuz as we all know..every NFL player is a rich spoiled punk...whereas the FO and Coaches are always great people...since they are not rich and spoiled like the players.
I'll throw you a life jacket since it seems you have gone overboard
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,177 |
No need, I can swim!
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728 |
Please don't bring my name up again in this thread. As I've said in my PMs thanking me...I'm tired of debating this. I'm not going to bring it up again. It's pointless.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,367
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,367 |
Quote:
As I've said in my PMs thanking me
Now that's funny.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
So you thanked yourself?
Did you say "I'm welcome"?
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728 |
OOPS! I meant in many PMs. I'd like to take this time for me to thank me. Better yet...I'll save the space here and send myself a PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,367
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,367 |
LOL.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns should release Disruptive
Winslow (article)
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