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Oh and as the quote goes: Stats are for losers, and those who never played the game you fit either one or both catagories. All Day.
What Does Adrian Peterson have to do with this? You make a strong case though, I'll give you that much.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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What are you trying to sell other then the fact you can cut and paste? You make no point and now I feel somewhat dumber reading this AGAIN!
I didn't cut and paste anything...those were pasted stats from another post and poster. But if you feel dumber by someone making sound examples of our QB situation, I can understand that now that I see your thought process.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Ummm well your qoute is a cut and paste but that is meaningless now, either way stats are not the tell tale sign.
Sound example? LMAO dude stat DO NOT tell the whole story you think it is proof good for you, but I can tell you that if you use stats as your measuring stick, you have no clue, period.
Glad you think you made a point what point who knows but dude don't qoute stats cause they don't mean a damn thing, it's all about getting a ring and DA isn't the guy.
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I don't care about stats man...Most everything I talked about is what I saw..Things like reading Defenses, and if accuracy and QB ratings and touch on short throws is commonly used to blast DA why can't we shed them in another light..a contrasting one. But your point to me is I have no point.... so forget it...I'll talk football with someone else I'm not here to push IQ's like some.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Push IQ's no not doing that I might have misread your point, just I am trying to figure out your point, none the less sorry your thinking this is a contest move on and I guess talk to others without an IQ if that makes you feel better or smarter that isn't my goal friend. I'll give you the benifit and I missed something so trust me my "ego" is in check, if thats what you think my responses are about. 
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Piggyback?
GMAB ..this subject was debated beyond comprehension last year and early in preseason..spare me the ridiculous remarks because debating about a guy who isn't a quality QB is a waste.
U want me to give you a bunch of stats to show why I think as I do..Newflash..it's already been done..
And if you really think I've failed its because you don't want to accept that I'm not going to bottlefeed you data..
Now when it's announced what the QB status is going to be in TC..then debate it..
And when it somes to debating players..U and HewDawg are going to find I don't piggyback on others opinions..I make my own evaluations because I go on what I see...not just numbers.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 12/31/08 10:15 AM.
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it's my hope that DA could reduce the head scratchers, and i think that string of passes without the ints could be an indication that he can.
He did reduce the head scratchers, he also became reluctant to trust his arm and throw the ball down the field... It appeared to me that he became so afraid of making a mistake that he was unwilling to do what made his good in '07. You can't simultaneously be inaccurate on short passes and hesitant on long passes.. that's a bad combination.
yebat' Putin
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I see things this way
I don't want to get rid of DA or BQ
I wanted Quinn to get a chance after Da began to struggle not because Quinn was supposed to be the savior. I merely want to see "what Quinn had"
It is important to note that Quinn has no where near Anderson's arm...thats fact.
Also, Quinn only completed what? 1 pass over 15 yards..or something like that...most of his passes were the 5-7 yard vareity
I personally think the Browns should go with DA....he was not our main problem last year, Edwards and others dropping passes and the right-side of our OL and no running game was more of the problem then DA.
I fear we are running a very good QB out of Town...unrightfully....You don't throw 29 TD passes in the NFL and be a loser...it just doesn't work that way...there was more problems on this team than just the QB
It is important to note that DA had a 14 point lead in 2 games the D blew for him
It is also important to note the pass that giot picked off against Baltimore was Da 1st INT in like 146 pass attempts or something like that
Da belive it or not was making progress and improving contarary to what some want to belive.
I think Quinn should be the one traded Ultimatly...I think Da is the better prospect..he has expereince, he is a Pro Bowler, he has a cannon arm.
I just think from what I have saw from Quinn, he has a very good chance of being a bust...he doesn't have a DA type of arm..DA has a better arm then BEn or Manning does...more like Farve, and DA was showing progress going that long without an INT..and DA's short passing game had begun to improve
If the Browns are Smart, They should stick with Da and trade Quinn...Quinn i personally don't think he has the arm to do it in the NFL....he has the other skills, but the ARm is where his shortcomings will be
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Thank God you don't run the Browns. LOL. Some of you guys cannot possibly watch the same games I do....and some of you are going to be very disappointed about this situation when it all falls out, IMO.
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You see why I won't get into another silly debate about Mr.Inconsistant.. We have the gong show, who wants a lengthy debate about what? A QB who is a backup at best.. It's like these guys who are behind DA want the rest of us to open our minds that dispite what he's shown, he has a opportunity to become a star QB.. 
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j/c
I though for sure everybody was sold on DA not being the QB...I really did and then I wandered into this mess. Regardless if BQ is the answer or not, DA is finished here.
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We went through this last season and I debated this stuff until I was blue in the face. Last year though, I gave them a slight benefit of the doubt. This year, not a chance.  You are right though, It's not worth it. These people are blind to this guy. 
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j/c
I though for sure everybody was sold on DA not being the QB...I really did and then I wandered into this mess. Regardless if BQ is the answer or not, DA is finished here.
I know, it baffles me.
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Come on...it's tired..I see a guy who can't lead a sustained drive consistantly ..has bad mechanics..isn't mobile..and now doesn't throw downfield because he has problems making good decisions..(meaning isn't instinctful enough to recognize coverages)..but I'm supposed to somehow forget all that and acknowledge that he's improving..
PEOPLE WAKE UP..your OC called plays that made him throw safe passes..and not go to his strengths..
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Mark my Words...if we Trade DA and most people think he will end up in Minnesota...you watch
Da will have a Pro Bowl year and Win the Division with that football team
Quinn will be a bust here....I saw nothing but Couch in Quinn except atleast Couch had a 4th quarter moxie to him and could pull out some games.....Quinns arm is probably worse than Couch's was
Da is not Mr.Inconsistent...the team around him is....what do you want from him when the right side of your line is a sieve, Lewis has no holes, Braylon Edwards couldn't catch a pass if his life depended on it
Our D blows leads DA has gotten us...
It don't add up, and Da was not the problem...the QB only plays as well as the team around him..im telling you Da is the Better QB between the two..look what Da Did to the Ginats when the team actually came to play....how bout the dropped deep ball against Baltimore from Edwards that DA delivered that would have won us the freaking game...it goes on and on...Da is by far the better prospect
if we Trade Da..you watch...he will take another team to the playoffs and have a Pro Bowl year while Quinn busts here...he doesn't have the arm
There is a reason 31 other teams scounting departments had Quinn rated as a mid-2nd rd prospect......
If we trade Anderson he will end up in either:
KC
Minn
Arizona
and he will take those teams somewhere
We have Da signed reasonably, we should keep him and send Quinn packing....it will be a big mistake if we keep Quinn over Anderson who is more talented...remember I said this
by game 12 next year, you all will be calling for Quinns head while Da's team is in playoff contention.....
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Did you actually watch DA play football or are you just guessing based on some stats you've read? 
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I could not disagree with you more on nearly every single thing you said. But, that's what makes the world go 'round. 
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tt...I watched the Browns offensive line lead the league in QBs on IR.
In the NFL, "protecting" your QB is not measured in just sacks.
When DA was protected, especially last season, he performed very well.
Last edited by mac; 12/31/08 11:05 AM.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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He performed well in the first half of the season Mac.
When the defenses schemed to double and keep the recievers in front..DA suffered..he can't consistantly complete short/intermediate routes..
And he was protected well..he simply cannot be a touch QB..and his timing/accuracy is also bad.
He even has a hard time throwing dump off passes..
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Of course, I haven't missed a game in 3 years
Da is the better QB....Even Bill Cowher was quoted as saying "Anderson will have a chance to be a starter on that team or some team. he is a very talented QB"
The backup is always the most popular guy in town
Cleveland is notorious for running good sports players out of town.
Most folks are reaching for straws here....think Quinn is going to magically solve our problems, when in reality he is actually a worse option....Savage forced Romeo to play Quinn, all the coaches thought Anderson was a better QB because he is....I know for all the Quinn lovers this will be alot to swallow but Anderson is
I hope we keep Anderson and come Game 8 next year when were 2-6 and Quinn has thrown 2 Tds and 8 or 9 INTS and were struggling badly, the New coach puts in Da and we win our last 8 and Quinn is out of here
But most likely like the boneheads we usually are, we will trade DA and really be up a creek.
Afterall, Quinn will have the same chance here in Cleveland that Da got...NONE DA wins 10 games as a essentially rookie QB and because the team struggles they are ready to run him out of town on a rail
Quinn will get the same exact treatment....I feel sorry for you Quinn..if you don't win 11 games next year, fans will be calling for your head
the same fans who cheered when DA and Couch got hurt
The same fans who booed DA and booed others
Like i said, Quinn is being set up to be crucified..here in Cleveland it is not that easy to accomplish
If I was coming out of the draft as a QB and Cleveland drafted me, being a Browns fan, I would refuse to play for them...I know how we treat our own...we throw people under the bus worse than Philly fans do...any young kid coming out of college as QB has to be out of his freaking mind to want to QB here
Same with coaches and others...are they nuts...seriously....
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He performed well in the first half of the season Mac.
When the defenses schemed to double and keep the recievers in front..DA suffered..he can't consistantly complete short/intermediate routes..
And he was protected well..he simply cannot be a touch QB..and his timing/accuracy is also bad.
He even has a hard time throwing dump off passes..
Tacker...I disagree.
DA showed improvement on his short touch passes game. But DA nor any of our QB's enjoyed the protection and time they had last season. You don't end up with 3 QBs on IR then claim your Oline is doing a good job of protecting their QB.
Teams realized our Oline was not doing a good job so then they began to blitz more, which lead to our QBs throwing too soon, running for their lives or trying to stand in the pocket and just take the beating.
Add to our diminished Oline performance the fact that our WRs didn't perform as well as they did in 2007 and we have a 4 win season and 3 QBs on IR.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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...and that's just looking at the Browns performance on the offensive side of the ball. If we begin to look at our defensive performance we will find they contributed to our W-L record too.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Did you just ignore what I said?
Read the post again.
Then respond to that .
Now as far as this year...I saw little improvement from DA..whil he didn't make as many bad decisions as last year he still made them.
He didn't adjust to the way teams were playing him this year and they knew the way to shut him down is to take the deep throws away.
He could have had solid protection and still had a bad season because he just can't do the little things a successful QB can do.
U and a lot of others want to overlook his horrible mechanics and footwork...those things hinder his improvement.
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There is a reason 31 other teams scounting departments had Quinn rated as a mid-2nd rd prospect......
This has got to be the funniest thing I have read in a few days. How do you know this? Do you have 31 GM's on speed dial? Your crazy if you really believe this. I guess Aaron Rodgers was rated a mid-2nd prospect since he also fell to 22 in the first.
Do you really know why he fell to 22? Because all of those other teams 1 - 21 had other needs than a QB!!! When we moved up to draft him, we were not the only team trying to get him.
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Yea... Quinn was projected to go in the first round. PERIOD!
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Da will have a Pro Bowl year and Win the Division with that football team
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Quinn will be a bust here....I saw nothing but Couch in Quinn except atleast Couch had a 4th quarter moxie to him and could pull out some games.....Quinns arm is probably worse than Couch's was
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Da is not Mr.Inconsistent...
From these observations, I would highly recommend a good optomitrist. If that doesn't help, your condition may be far more serious than first diagnosed.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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U see why I won't get into this stupid debate anymore with the likes of Ding Dong and whoever else wants to promote DA ?
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This is gonna be a decision that I'm glad that I don't have to make.....Do you dish one off for a draft pick...let them battle it out in Training camp and then cut one.......or try and stand the drama of keepig them both...trying to maybe re-structure one of the contracts.....????
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Roscoe5319/Marty2.jpg) "Winning is not a some time thing, it's an all the time thing" ....-Lombardi-
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I just find it really funny at this stage of the game and poke fun at it. We both know he is who we thought he was. Most people who used their eyes instead of emotions have a firm grasp of that. The rest? Might as well laugh it off. That's what I usually do with jokes. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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This is gonna be a decision that I'm glad that I don't have to make.....Do you dish one off for a draft pick...let them battle it out in Training camp and then cut one.......or try and stand the drama of keepig them both...trying to maybe re-structure one of the contracts.....????
If I have to build this D back up and don't want a QB contraversy, I let DA go via trade. He has a roster bonus of about 8 mil due in March. His upside never developed so why carry the weight of that cap hit when players are desperatly needed in other departments.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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With a new staff coming in..who knows how they'll value both QB's?
If it were me..I know where I stand on DA..
First I would look to see what value he has around the league..how much is any team willing to give up for him..next i'm looking for a vet QB in case I can get enough for DA.
Then I am putting BQ in there and let him battle it out.
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Did you just ignore what I said?
Read the post again.
Then respond to that .
Now as far as this year...I saw little improvement from DA..whil he didn't make as many bad decisions as last year he still made them.
He didn't adjust to the way teams were playing him this year and they knew the way to shut him down is to take the deep throws away.
He could have had solid protection and still had a bad season because he just can't do the little things a successful QB can do.
U and a lot of others want to overlook his horrible mechanics and footwork...those things hinder his improvement.
Tacker...WHAT?
Your comments above mean what?...your right?....Don't think so!
I happen to disagree with you...
...in the fact it all starts with the offensive line "protecting" their QB
...then your WRs must have at least as good a year as they did in 2007, if your expecting similar or better performance from DA or any of our QBs compared to 2007.
....and I still maintain that DA did improve on his short game over the 2007 season but the break downs on the Oline and WRs had a major impact on all our QBs performances.
I say your opinion and mine differ but I don't lay it all on the QBs, but spread the blame for our poor QB play to other important areas of the offense.
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"But who's fault is it that there was no improvement? His or a certain QB coach that I have complained about since the day we hired him?"
Sometimes you can coach a guy so far...and he can only do what his abilities can muster.
IMPROVEMENT...outside of the MENTAL part of the game.
I said it before and I'll say it again he is highly inaccurate and 90% of that comes from footwork...HIS FOOTWORK.
Again and again...get him OUT of the pocket...or even get him to move around withing the pocket as long as he has to move laterally and then reset his feet...his rhythm is gone (hey I finally figured out how to spell rhythm  ) and so would be his accuracy.
Oh sure he could do a dance step choreographed as in the Boot leg throw. He practiced it and it got better but that was a designed play and not what I'm talking about. Even the most two footed dancer can learn a dance step but it doesn't mean you can teach that person rhythm.
I'm talking about that little step to the right and then find a new pocket cause a pocket shifts all the time. Brady not known for his mobility has this rhythm...DA does not. He is pretty good in his comfort zone...but that zone was one dimensional. Drop back...step up - Defenses job is to get QBs out of their comfort zone that was easy...take away his prime WRs so that time would takes its course...break down the pocket...make him move...Viola! Success.
This is the improvement that was not seen from DA...this is why he can never take us to a Championship cause along the way in the ONE n Done format we will come against a great defense that would beable to get him out of his zone.
Can a miracle happen...sure DA vs Giants. But take a look at that game - I think the real miracle was with our OL...cause it took a little bit of time but eventually DA got into his comfort zone. But he didn't have to move laterally he was allowed to stay in the original pocket.
You cannot teach Rhythm...BQ btw is a natural Salsa Dancer 
That is why I have hope for him.
JMHO if need be I'm willling to discuss this with anyone on this thread. Dong, etc.
I can get more in depth but I hope I said it as easily understood as possible.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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And in case you missed it, I think your entire premise is laughable to put is as kindly as possible.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Sometimes I have to remind myself you guys don't like to do any little work instead of jumping the gun.
Read the first two sentences of my first response..and tell me what happened .
DA got good protection all year didn't he?
In the Cincy game explain the picks.
Don't charge it to the wind either..
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Thank you for validating my opinion in regards to DA. Every statement you made I disagree 100% and since I have read the source before and this source (you) is approximately 99.8% of the time wrong it is good to assume that will continue your supurb record on being wrong and you will see DA is at best a backup, but some team is gonna find out the hard way he's not that good and I could care less who.
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I like DA, I hate to have to keep restating that, but I do...
Everything I read on here about DA is... If his line gives him very good protection and we have a good running game and we have a very good defense and we have receivers who catch everything and we call all of the right plays... then DA can be a good NFL QB... Hell I could be a good qb given all that.... We need a qb who can make plays when the running game isn't working, we need a qb who can adjust to the defense and go short when he needs to or go deep when he needs to or heck, tuck it and run for a first down when he needs to, we need a qb who can make some throws with somebody in his face, who can make the presnap reads and adjustments as well as the post snap reads and adjustments and who can orchestrate a 2 minute drill under pressure.... and I still maintain that Quinn has more upside to do a lot of that playmaking when things aren't perfect... because things aren't usually perfect.
yebat' Putin
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DA is at best a backup, but some team is gonna find out the hard way he's not that good and I could care less who.
Im hoping the Brett Favre retires and the Jets need a QB  . They wont have a shot at the top 2 or 3 in the draft because they will be picking too late.
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I think DA could do well with the Jets... and I've been thinking the same thing. Heck even if Brett doesn't retire, the Jets might release him or they may be interested in getting his back-up into the system this year...
yebat' Putin
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I really haven't considered the Jets that much but both your and Legal's opinions are valid possibilites.
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and if it says anything about
quinn
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