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I'm not certain about either guy. (Pioli & Mangini)
ANYBODY that worked with Bill Belleyache as a GM or defensive guy is suspect to me. Bill had final say in selecting draft players and is the REAL defensive guru.
![[Linked Image from members.cox.net]](http://members.cox.net/flyinc5/smallsigpics/frcburnout.gif) AL 29 76 14 R_K
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Eric Mangini
Lerner might worry
* Crennel was cheerful but not insightful or skilled in his communication with the public. Mangini tends to be humorless and bland, and not just in public. He struck some of his Jets players as too emotionless.
Sounds a little like Bill's stint in Cleveland. Bill learned from it - has Eric and is the same potential there?
X/O Coaching potential, player management skills, chemistry with GM, public perception - almost none of the primary factors for considering a coach are truly quantifiable and all are most are subject to change over time.
I don't envy the position Lerner is in. Focus on the GM and let him choose the coach. Lerner has a better chance of making the right pick there than dabbling in the coach selection process.
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An experienced GM and a rookie coach, or an experienced coach and a rookie GM?
A experienced GM and a experienced coach..and it is available to the Browns..
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A experienced GM and a experienced coach..and it is available to the Browns..
Yeah, it is......there are a number of options out there.....it just takes money...I would think that Lerner has learned (lol, that's funny...Lerner has learned) his lesson....look at the past Clevelnad coaches since he brought them back.....Chris Palmer...Butch Davis...Romeo Crennel....none of which had any head coaching experience.......and maybe a handful of winning seasons between all of them...if that.....I would not take that chance again.....you got some really good coaches out there.....pair them up with a good GM and be done with it......that way your not rebuilding the staff every other year as well as the team.....
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Roscoe5319/Marty2.jpg) "Winning is not a some time thing, it's an all the time thing" ....-Lombardi-
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1st String
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Have we interviewed anyone besides Pioli and McKay for the GM job yet?
![[Linked Image from i161.photobucket.com]](http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t215/nick_ogrin/ogdawg.jpg) Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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I don't think so........not real sure.....
"Winning is not a some time thing, it's an all the time thing" ....-Lombardi-
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Legend
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very few? give me ONE.... JUST SAY NO!
Dick Vermiel and Barry Switzer
Both started out as college coaches and both have superbowl rings...
Jimmy Johnson has 2 superbowl rings.
How could you ever forget Paul Brown....
There is four without even thinking about it..
Barry Switzer inerrhited JJ's team. And we saw what hasppenned soon after. GONE!
How many DECADES did you have to cover to find that select few?
GREAT odds, huh?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Have we interviewed anyone besides Pioli and McKay for the GM job yet?
To my knowledge, Pioli is the ONLY GM candidate we've talked too.. McKay isn't available to us (as we've recently found out) until the Falcons are out of the playoffs...
The HC candidates we've talked to so far have been Cowher, Mangini and Spags.. maybe McDaniels, but no confirmation on that yet. (not that I've seen or heard anyway)
Of those that Lerner is planning on interviewing for HC, I know of only Shanahan and Schwartz and maybe Rex Ryan from Balto. At least that's the reports we've all seen in the various articles on the subject.
I've not heard even ONE WORD about him talking to Marty Schottenheimer which just amazes me to no end.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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j/c Didn't see this posted (latest thoughts from Pluto) Scribbles in my Browns notebook by Terry Pluto, Plain Dealer Columnist Friday January 02, 2009, 12:15 AM Don't be surprised if Eric Mangini becomes a major figure as the Browns look for both a coach and a general manager. The former New York Jets coach met with the Browns on Tuesday, and they came away impressed. The Browns want a different-type coach from Romeo Crennel, with more emphasis on discipline and organization, and they think Mangini could be the guy. The Browns prefer not to hire a rookie coach. They have done a ton of research and believe a coach in Mangini's position -- having spent a few years with one team, then fired -- often is much better the second time around. Tony Dungy (fired by Tampa Bay, Super Bowl in Indianapolis) and Bill Belichick (fired by Art Modell, Super Bowls in New England) are two recent examples. Mangini spent three years as the Jets' coach: 10-6, 4-12 and 9-7. He will be 38 on Jan. 19. Based on their research, the Browns believe a new coach's most important hires are the offensive coordinator, defensive coordinator, offensive line and defensive back coaches. The research also shows rookie head coaches often swing and miss in two of those key four hires -- whereas experienced head coaches have more success building a staff that works well together. Yes, the Browns will talk to some assistants who have not been head coaches before, but it does not seem to be the direction that they want to go now. Looking back to 2005, Randy Lerner was a rookie owner who hired a rookie GM in Phil Savage and a rookie head coach in Crennel. The two coordinators -- Todd Grantham and Maurice Carthon -- also were rookies. The Browns don't want to get through all that again. The Browns are not sure where they stand with New England Vice President Scott Pioli. Kansas City is also courting him and it would not be a shock if he decided to stay in New England for another season. Like Bill Cowher, he can go on the market after the 2009 season and still be a hot item. I sense the Browns would love to put together Pioli and Mangini. Supposedly, the two with Belichick roots still get along despite Mangini turning in Belichick on the Spygate charges. Leadership, communication skills and creating an identity for the team remain on the top of the list as the Browns interview coaches and executives. After firing Crennel and Savage, they targeted these three experienced football men: Mike Holmgren, Cowher and Pioli. Holmgren and Cowher say they will sit out 2009. They did interview Pioli, but realize they have to find other candidates. When Mangini was fired Monday, the Browns were immediately intrigued because they like his leadership skills. What about the Jets' collapse? Mangini had them off to an 8-3 start, then they lost four of five to miss the playoffs. There were problems, but the biggest was the arm injury to Brett Favre. In the 8-3 start, Favre had 20 TD passes and 13 interceptions. In the 1-4 decline, it was two TDs and nine interceptions as Favre was playing with a torn bicep. Quarterbacks can make or break coaches. Derek Anderson's hot start saved Crennel's job in 2007 and helped the coach to a contract extension. The Jets thought Favre had a better chance of staying healthy than Chad Pennington, whom they cut. Pennington went to Miami, didn't get hurt and made team president Bill Parcells look like a genius as he had 19 TDs compared with seven interceptions. If the Browns do hire Mangini, they must pair him with a GM who is committed to the coach. Part of the Browns' problem in 2008 was a huge split between the front office and coaching staff over several players. That led to finger pointing from both directions. The Browns see how the Indians and Cavaliers stay not just on the same page, but even in the same sentences when their GMs and head coach/manager appear in public. As for Mike Shanahan, the Browns might talk to him. But the former Denver coach has won only one playoff game since 1999, and is .500 over the past three seasons. As of now, he does not appear to be at the top of the list. Nor is Marty Schottenheimer in the current picture. Everything is subject to change, but Mangini is in the center of conversation right now. Pluto scribbles article
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"very few? give me ONE..."
Well maybe you might remember another...Bill Walsh, HC of Stanford prior to getting his stint with the 49ers.
Look I think that most big name college coaches in the present era fail cause to get lured away they want and get FULL CONTROL.
In this scenario Ferentz would not. He could concentrate on ONE HAT...Team organization in preparation - Coaching.
Also what I do like is that his NFL experience was with us as our OL COACH  and so many who worked with him saw him as some sort of SURE THING future HC....Ozzie in Balt. Savage, Pioli. All three had similar roots but have very different Football directions...but all three like Ferentz a lot!
If Pioli is hired...I'm buying in with the Ferentz thing  JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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j/c link THURSDAY GOES, AND PIOLI REMAINS A CLEVELAND CANDIDATE Posted by Mike Florio on January 2, 2009, 11:16 a.m. EST One of the more bizarre developments of New Year’s Day arose in connection with the ongoing courtship of Pats V.P. of player personnel Scott Pioli by the Cleveland Browns. The Boston Herald trumpeted that the Browns had given Pioli a deadline of Thursday. The Cleveland Plain Dealer responded by reporting that no such deadline applies. So it’s now Friday, and Pioli has yet to accept the job. And the Browns have yet to pull the plug on the discussions. So the Herald was wrong. And, amazingly, the Friday item from the authors of Thursday’s piece, Ron Borges and Karen Guregian, fails to acknowledge the fact that the Thursday story was flat-out incorrect. Instead, they speculate that the postponement of Falcons president Rich McKay’s interview is a “telling sign” that Pioli and the Browns are “continuing to iron out differences and forge a union.” Um, no. The reality (as we’ve pointed out twice now) is that McKay can’t interview with the Browns until the Falcons’ season ends, since McKay is a high-level employee of the Falcons. Why did the Herald famously retract its February 2008 report of Patriots spying at Super Bowl XXXVI but then ignore its more recent error? Well, the last time around, they faced real and substantial legal liability. This time, they only face embarrassment — if, of course, anyone realizes that the Thursday report was so grossly wrong. So that’s the lesson, kids. Only admit you were wrong when necessary to do so in order to avoid being sued. In every other instance, shut up and hope no one notices. Meanwhile, the folks who pound the keys at ESPN.com continue to perpetuate the notion that the Browns have given deadline, via this headline: “Report: Browns want Pioli decision soon.” And yet there’s no reason to disregard the Plain Dealer report that the Browns have not imposed any deadline, whether it be Thursday, Friday, February 1, or the vague notion of “soon.” Meanwhile, there’s growing speculation in league circles that misinformation regarding Pioli’s status and his supposed demands is coming either from Browns employees who fear losing their jobs — or from Patriots executives who fear losing Pioli. Oh, so good to see PFT get something right... and then pat themselves on the back for it. By the way, Go Cardinals!!
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I have asked the " Why not Marty Question " several time ???? Just curious why Lerner wouldn't at least sit down and have a pow-wow  .. Lerner just might Learn Something  As far as HC. goes >>> There are several names I like , both new and old.. The one name I don't want to hear is Mangini ...
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As far as HC. goes >>> There are several names I like , both new and old.. The one name I don't want to hear is Mangini ...
I'm with you on that...I can't think of one good reason at all to hire him....
"Winning is not a some time thing, it's an all the time thing" ....-Lombardi-
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As far as HC. goes >>> There are several names I like , both new and old.. The one name I don't want to hear is Mangini ...
I'm with you on that...I can't think of one good reason at all to hire him....
Then you can't be thinking VERY hard 
Unless you don't count his experience for anything, or his commitment to discipline and organization. Yes, if you don't like those three things it mihgt be hard to THINK of one good reason to hire him... 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/GmuEd.gif) "One man's Bum is another man's Hobo" - Waterdawg
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I'm with you on that...I can't think of one good reason at all to hire him....
So let's hear all the good reasons to NOT hire him. Aside from the fact that he was just fired from the Jets.
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I'm with you on that...I can't think of one good reason at all to hire him....
So let's hear all the good reasons to NOT hire him. Aside from the fact that he was just fired from the Jets.
He was just fired from the J-E-T-S.....lol.....
"Winning is not a some time thing, it's an all the time thing" ....-Lombardi-
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I forgot one other candidate that is scheduled to interview for the GM job... TJ McCrieght (sp) I think his current title is Dir. of Player Personnel for the Browns.. he's got a decent resume.. not like McKay or even Pioli.. but decent.. Quote:
T.J. McCreight
Director, Player Personnel
T.J. McCreight is in his fourth season with the Browns and was elevated to the position of Director, Player Personnel in 2007 after serving the previous two seasons as Assistant Director, Player Personnel.
McCreight’s duties with the team include assisting in pro scouting, advance scouting of upcoming opponents, unrestricted free agency and assisting the college scouting staff in preparation for the NFL Draft. McCreight also assists with contract negotiations with some draft selections.
McCreight spent the previous eight seasons (1997-2004) in the Baltimore Ravens personnel department, including his last two seasons with the Ravens’ as the club’s national scout. McCreight spent three seasons with Baltimore as the East area scout and was then assigned expanded coverage to scout players throughout the United States.
McCreight gained his football experience in the college ranks both as a player and a coach. He was a tight end at Liberty University (Lynchburg, Va.), where he played under former Browns head coach Sam Rutigliano. McCreight graduated in 1992 with a degree in marketing.
McCreight’s college coaching resume includes defensive line coach at Delaware State University from 1994-97 and receivers coach at Oberlin College in 1993. He and his wife, Linda, live with their son Matthew, 7, and daughter, Maggie, 5, in Bainbridge, Ohio.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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It's really kinda funny when you read how these guys are evaluated. Shanahan, who IMO is the best one out there, has won 2 SB's but hasn't done much lately,....OK then , I guess he kinda sucks now,..right? He's not on the top of our list? GMAB. I'd take my chances with Shanahan in a minute. Mangini has coached now for like 3 seasons, he must be good because when young coaches get fired they're usually better the second time around?  Ferentz?, A college coach that has never coached in the NFL would be good as long as we don't ask too much of him and give him very limited control. How silly would we look if this EXPERIMENT failed us again.....no thanks  If Lerner wants as close to a sure thing as he can get,..Shanahan should be a no brainer. To me, the coach is the most important piece. If we can't find a GM that would want Shanahan as their HC,.. I don't want him here.. I want a a proven NFL winner and there's only one available right now.
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McCreight isn't going to get, no more than Tucker would actually be considered for the HC job.
If Pioli/McKay balk..then watch for Floyd Reese..
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I could see McCreight staying on in some capacity, but I'm with you Attack. I doubt we'll *seriously* go after him for a GM job.
Last edited by brownsfansince79; 01/02/09 01:35 PM.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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I have asked the " Why not Marty Question " several time ???? Just curious why Lerner wouldn't at least sit down and have a pow-wow .. Lerner just might Learn Something
As far as HC. goes >>> There are several names I like , both new and old.. The one name I don't want to hear is Mangini ...
Why not Marty? Hmm, as GM, you can look at his past personnel decisions and there are many that are suspect.....as a HC, look at his playoff record, terrible.
How do you know there hasn't been any contact with him?
I'm still waiting for a real reason that Mangini is so terrible of a choice. He had 2 winning seasons out of 3. He is very disciplined. He has had success as a DC as well as HC. He has shown he isn't afraid to stand up for his team regardless of who he angers (spygate). He has ties to he Browns as a previous coach here. The only thing I've seen for a reason is that....well, haven't seen one, actually.
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Listening to Floyd on ESPN makes me think he's not too bright...
Overall, I'm not sure I have a good feeling about what is about to end up happening to us....maybe that is a good thing as I liked bringing in Botch and Savage, but egos got in the way with those two.
I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
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Well maybe you might remember another...Bill Walsh, HC of Stanford prior to getting his stint with the 49ers.
In this scenario Ferentz would not. He could concentrate on ONE HAT...Team organization in preparation - Coaching.
Also what I do like is that his NFL experience was with us as our OL COACH and so many who worked with him saw him as some sort of SURE THING future HC....Ozzie in Balt. Savage, Pioli. All three had similar roots but have very different Football directions...but all three like Ferentz a lot!
If Pioli is hired...I'm buying in with the Ferentz thing JMHO
Go ahead and buy into the "handfull of College coaches" who have actually had success over DECADES! Not in the past decade, but the past FIVE DECADES!
Your odds are slim to none and none is leading coming into the home stretch!
I kind of expect that from someone who can basicly write a 500 word essay on the positives of a game where we lose 31-10, but not everybody is the eternal optimist on very unlikely scenarios.
Don't get upset eo, but you do try to find the silver lining in every storm cloud. Unfortunately, we are in HUGE disaray right now. We're not the Cowboys when JJ came in.
And this isn't just a storm cloud. It's a full blown hurricane. And we saw the last time that a hurricane isn't an easy thing to deal with. We need experience. Experience is available.
No excuses for anything less. If Pioli is stck on Ferentz? Sorry, but I wouldn't even rent it, much less buy it.
Are you looking for flood land in Florida? I mean if you're buying into long shots, I might as well gain from it too.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Lerner... Bring Shanahan in here.... Let him come to a real AFC conference.
LET's DO IT!!!
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Jets players sad to see Mangini go Dave Hutchinson/The Star-Ledger Monday December 29, 2008, 2:30 PM Of Eric Mangini's firing, Jets' WR Jerricho Cotchery said, "We all played a role."The firing of Jets coach Eric Mangini was met with shock and surprise by players Monday as they bagged their belongings and headed off into the offseason. Almost to a man, players said they didn't see it coming and insisted they Mangini didn't lose the team. Several players said off the record that quarterback Brett Favre, not Mangini, is most responsible for their epic collapse. Favre, of course, threw two touchdowns and nine interceptions in the final five games, four losses. What's more, players said privately that the organization is simply trying to make a big splash with a high-profile coach as it prepares to enter their new stadium and Mangini was the sacrificial lamb. The organization, players said, wanted to act quickly so they could go after Bill Cowder before another team grabbed him. Mangini addressed the team briefly at noon. ``Certain things you don't see coming and it catches you off guard,'' said cornerback Ty Law. ``It's unfortunate. Eric is a great coach. He deserves better, especially from us as players. ... No, he didn't lose the team. The guys were behind him 100 percent. To say he lost the locker room, no.'' ``I'm surprised. I didn't see it coming,'' echoed tight end Chris Baker. ``The way this business is, you have to expect the unexpected, though.'' ``Eric and I are good friends,'' said cornerback Darrelle Revis. ``I''m sure he's going to be somewhere else next year.'' Safety Kerry Rhodes pointed to the Jets' effort in their 24-17 loss to the Dolphins on Sunday as proof that they didn't quit on Mangini. ``We came out and we still fought,'' said Rhodes. ``Everyone played a role (in Mangini getting fired),'' said wide receiver Jerricho Cotchery. ``We should've done better as players. I could've done a better job of making plays. Eric is a good guy. It's tough to see him go.'' http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2008/12/jets_players_sad_to_see_mangin.html Teammates taking shots at Favre Daily News Wire Services Brett Favre was a "distant" teammate who should have been benched for the good of the team, according to two New York Jets players. One of the players, quoted anonymously, told Newsday that when Favre was at the team's practice facility, he spent his down time isolated in an office specially designated for him. "There was a lot of resentment in the room about him. He never socialized with us, never went to dinner with anyone," the player was quoted as saying. There was nothing anonymous about running back Thomas Jones' comments Tuesday on New York Hot 97 FM radio. While the Jets went 1-4 down the stretch, Favre threw nine interceptions against just two touchdown passes. "We're a team and we win together . . . but at the same time, you can't turn the ball over and expect to win," Jones said. "The other day, the three interceptions really hurt us. I mean, that's just reality," Jones said, referring to the Jets' season-ending loss to Miami. "If I were to sit here and say, 'Oh, man, it's OK,' that's not reality . . . I don't like it, I know everybody else on the team doesn't like it." The Jets' finish led to the firing of coach Eric Mangini. The interviews for his replacement begin today with internal candidates Brian Schottenheimer (offensive coordinator) and Bill Callahan (assistant head coach/offense). Jets owner Woody Johnson has said he wants Favre to return. But Favre, who played with pain in his right shoulder that could be repaired arthroscopically, might wait until Mangini's successor is in place before deciding his future. Said safety Kerry Rhodes: "If he's dedicated and he wants to come back and do this, and do it the right way . . . and be here when we're here in training camp and the minicamps and working out with us . . . then I'm fine with it. But don't come back if it's going to be halfhearted or he doesn't want to put the time in with us." http://www.philly.com/dailynews/sports/playbook/20090102_Teammates_taking_shots_at_Favre.htmlWe gotta GET that GUY!Can you see the picture a little clearer now?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I'm with you on that...I can't think of one good reason at all to hire him....
So let's hear all the good reasons to NOT hire him. Aside from the fact that he was just fired from the Jets.
Well, I will start with this season....you are starting to hear the truth come out about what was REALLY going on in the locker room..with Brett Favre, and how the players were upset with him.....with that being said, I'll tag that as reason #1....has trouble with maintaining control / leadership skills...  ..
reason #2.....without knowing exactely how the GM / coaching situation is with the Jets, I will assume that Mangini has at least a say so.....with that said....getting rid of Chad Pennington for Brett Favre....that has got to be one of the dumbest moves ever.....and I think they got exactley what they deserved...getting put out by Chad.....the only reason they went 8-3 at first is because of Thomas Jones and the defense....Chad has always been picked apart because of his questionable arm strength......but he still manages to win...still manages to have one of the most acurate percentages in the history of the NFL..he has made other questinoable moves also, but I'm just trying to give the short version.so I would call this reason.....unable to notice talent if it slapped him in the face......  ......
reason #3.......he is off of the Bellichek tree ........that pretty much says it all...without Bill pulling the strings, he is just another puppet..  ...Bill is the mastermind in NE, and it is just silly for Cleveland to try and go back to that well....  ....that is what scares me about Pioli as well.....
Again, just my opinions......  ......
"Winning is not a some time thing, it's an all the time thing" ....-Lombardi-
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I have asked the " Why not Marty Question " several time ???? Just curious why Lerner wouldn't at least sit down and have a pow-wow .. Lerner just might Learn Something
As far as HC. goes >>> There are several names I like , both new and old.. The one name I don't want to hear is Mangini ...
I gotta believe they are talking about Marty. Kosar has a history with both and has got to have Randy's ear about now. As to WHAT they are talking about and if Marty is even interested remains to be seen... I think we actually know VERY little about what's going on with the discussions and conference calls behind the scenes. Just because we don't see Marty ( or someone else) flying to NY to meet Randy doesn't mean much to me.
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All Pro
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j/c
I may be in the minority here, but really I could care less if a coach or players for that matter have ties to Cleveland. This shouldn't even be a factor. We are a totally different organization then we were when most of these "Cleveland ties" came about.
I am hoping we interview Shanahan soon. I amnot totally against some of these assistant promotions, but I don't like the idea of Ferentz. Just a gut feeling I guess.
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While you favor Macaroni...I would like to see Shazam in here...
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Joined: Mar 2007
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Dawg Talker
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I'm not against Ferentz....I think in the right situation, with the right assistants, he could win. I think he holds people accountable, is a really good man, and can flat out coach. Let's think of the most recent college to pro flops:
Butch Davis: Had full control of the organization, often went against the advice of his scouts, HUGE EGO
Steve Spurrier: Never an NFL assistant, tried to bring his video game offense to NFL, HUGE EGO
Nick Saban: Snake oil salesman, large say in personnel matters, HUGE EGO
Now, the important thing in those three are the egos they brought to the NFL. I think Saban and Davis are still great COACHES, but they tried to do too much. Spurrier is a great college coach, but that hiring was typical Dan Snyder big name hire.
The biggest thing for a head coach is to hold people accountable, maintain strick discipline, play no favorites, time & organization mgmt and respect his players. I think MOST of the coaches know there x's and o's, know game management, but it's the "soft" skills that they lack.
Is Mangini a better x's and o's coach then Ferentz??? Doubtful....probably as good....It's the other intangibles that are the most important. If Pioli comes in and thinks Ferentz is the best coach for him and they'll have mutual respect for each other and work as a TEAM, i'm all for it. I'd rather have that then Pioli and Mangini be on seperate sides and have a lot of tension in the room.
I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,206
Legend
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Legend
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I have one main concern about that ATTACK or I might be leaning that way as well.
IF Shanahan would not demand full control and be willing to work under a GM, I'd be on your side. But for some reason, I don't see that happening. And that scares me.
I mean when he was in control in Denver, he took every crappy cast off from our D. And where did that lead?
So IF he was willing to come in as strictly the HC, I agree.
But what are the odds of that?
So I'm going with what I percieve to be the best "logical" candidate that would not want to wear all the hats at one time and that has shown GREAT potential as an NFL HC.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Go ahead and buy into the "handfull of College coaches" who have actually had success over DECADES! Not in the past decade, but the past FIVE DECADES!
I don't like the premise of that one...
College coaches???
1) Come to the NFL as HC with NO PRIOR NFL Experience...Full Control or Not...BAD...
2) Come to the NFL as HC WITH prior NFL experience...And gets full control...BAD...
3) Come to the NFL as a HC ONLY...WITH Prior NFL Experience in any shape or form...WHY NOT???...
3)
Go Browns!!!
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Joined: Mar 2007
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
I have one main concern about that ATTACK or I might be leaning that way as well.
IF Shanahan would not demand full control and be willing to work under a GM, I'd be on your side. But for some reason, I don't see that happening. And that scares me.
I mean when he was in control in Denver, he took every crappy cast off from our D. And where did that lead?
So IF he was willing to come in as strictly the HC, I agree.
But what are the odds of that?
So I'm going with what I percieve to be the best "logical" candidate that would not want to wear all the hats at one time and that has shown GREAT potential as an NFL HC.
JMHO
Completely agree!!! Shanahan as GM is horrible....he also took a lot of deadbeats with known issues (clarrett for one) besides his overall lack of talent brought in.
I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,206
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,206 |
Quote:
3) Come to the NFL as a HC ONLY...WITH Prior NFL Experience in any shape or form...WHY NOT???...
Because right now? There are MUCH better choices available!
If we were in a situation where we were forced to do so because of a lack of experienced HC's on the market, maybe.
But that's simply not the case.
So with so much experience available........Why?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Hall of Famer
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I'm only prompting Shazam as a HC..not a GM...if I were Lerner I'd get a face to face with Shazam ..
I wonder if this is the sticking point woth Pioli..he probably wants Ferentz..and Lerner wants a experienced HC..
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Hall of Famer
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I buy that and agree...
Shanahan and Mangini are my 2 choices...
IF we brought Ferentz here with full control???...NO WAY...Hell...Shanahan with full control is a NO WAY too...
With Pioli???...No reason to freak out...
Go Browns!!!
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Dawg Talker
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Let's do an experiment Pitt, because I've always had the same belief that you do, but I would like to know if the numbers back up our thoughts. Let's make a list of coaches who have come from college and failed.........
1. Petrino
2. Spurrier
3. Botch
4. Erickson
5. Saban (this one is debatable, because he was begining to turn that around before he quit them. However, he did quit because he didn't like the NFL)
6. Lou Holtz
I can't think of any more, but feel free to add to the list
Now let's look at coaches from college who've had success in the NFL.....
1. Jimmy Johnson
2. Barry Switzer (and yes Pitt he won a SB that counts no matter who's players they were)
3. Bill Walsh
4. Paul Brown
5. Tom Coughlin
6. John Robinson
7.Dick Vermeil
Again if I left anyone off the list feel free to add to it.
Now let's look over the last 20 years of the NFL and look at the statistics........
Failed......
1.Spurrier
2. Botch
3. Petrino
4. Saban (going by previous conditions)
Success.......
1. Coughlin
2. Jimmy
3. Switzer
From these numbers, and again there might be some left off of either side, it seems that the success rate is about 50 percent regardless if we look over the past 50 or the past 20.
I hate to say it Pitt, but that is probably in line with hiring a coordinator or a retread as far as success percentages go. I think the whole college coaches can't make it in the NFL thing might be a media/fan creation, based on the recent failures we've seen............that seems to be what these numbers tell us.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Dawg Talker
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Good point on the full control thing. Looking at the recent failures, all but one of them (Petrino) had full control. So was the failure a result of one man with too much power (and we've seen that universally regardless if it's a college/NFL experience coach), or a college transition problem. I tend to think it's the former.
I have no problem with Farentz after looking this up bro, as long as Pioli is calling the shots. i would actually have more of a problem giving Mangini full power, becuase I think those numbers of failed HC/GMs is much higher than failed college coaches. I just think if guys like Holmgren and Shannahan can't handle it then it's probably a fairly hard thing to do.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Wonder where USC's Carrol would fall into this catogory USC has more talent than a pro team, probebly pays them better, but Carrol failed misurably in NE, so is he pro or is USC still considered college ?
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