DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Mangini names Coaching additions

I'll get excited about these guys when teams are lined up & waiting until after the Super Bowl to hire them as thier next head coach.

Until than, stop talking to the media and get to work.

Now Al Davis has his idea of what defense should be ran as well. press on the edge and zone underneath.

So we really have yet to see what Ryan can do but the reason I think it is probably a continuation of the bend dont break is because that is what Mangini's background is in. I just cant see him allowing Ryan to run things his way.
I will tell you if the Browns do not sign some playmaking LBs in free agency and the draft at OLB and ILB - Rob Ryan is not going to be the right choice.

I will also tell you unless the Browns sign some better DEs who can both rush the pass, stop the run and be quick enough to extend to cover RBs going outside - Rob Ryan is not going to be the right choice.

I will also tell you unless the Browns get a big CB to start and put Brandon McDonald or say Ricky Manning (free agent CB) in the nickel - Rob Ryan is not going to be the right choice.
The one thing I do know about Ryan is he looks like he can do a pile-driver..

general reply.....

the big thing with all of these guys imo, is that you never really know what you are going to get....

all of these coaches are good...they are nfl coaches for cryin' out loud....

just like anything else, its the situations that they get put into, and the talent on there team, that usually defines them....

all of these coordinators that become head coaches come from a winning team....and go to a crappy team....most never get enough time to turn things around...and they are gone again...

same thing with the assistants...you have the misfortune of coaching a crappy team, and you get a mark against you....

look how many guys are hot commoditys...then nothing....

look at jeff davidson....becomes oc in carolina...does well....we get chud from sd...and get mixed results..

davidson came from us, with a crappy record....chud from the chargers with a good record...

would davidson have done better here? or did he just have more talent in carolina...

now obviously alot of these guys get promoted to there level of incompetence...and then move back down to what they were good at.....but alot more never land in the right situation....


if given the players, the coach will look good....if not, then he looks like a failure...

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all of these coordinators that become head coaches come from a winning team....and go to a crappy team....most never get enough time to turn things around...and they are gone again...

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LOL all except for Mike Tomlin and the guy thats taking over for Dungy that is.

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And can anyone think of one Raiders defensive tackle off the top of their head?

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Big Money, Tardell Sands, Tommy Kelly. But I agree with you. Give Ryan some decent talent and our defense will be very good.

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In the five seasons that Ryan oversaw Oakland's defense, the Raiders allowed an NFL-worst 101 rushing touchdowns and the second-most rushing yards per game at 138.7. Only the Browns were worse, giving up 141.2 yards per game.

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Just an additional comment about Rob Ryan...the Raider pass defense ranked 10th in the NFL and the Raiders defense ranked 13th in sacks this past season with 32 while the Browns ranked 31st in the NFL with just 17 sacks.

Sacks are but one measure of a teams defensive strength but I will note, the Browns have a long way to go in sacks compared to teams in the playoffs. Five of the top six teams in sacks made the playoffs this season.

Of the four teams remaining in the playoffs, Pittsburgh ranked 2nd in sacks with 51 and Philly ranked 3rd with 48...Balt ranked 11th with 34 and Ariz ranked 14th with 31 sacks.

Make no mistake, I'm not excusing Ryans record with the Raiders in the area of stopping the rush. But, I'm just pointing out what the article failed to do, the positives of the Ryan's defense in Oakland this past season.

You and Og crack me up. How has any of these coaches "failed" Ryan had a great defense until he was handcuffed and forced to change styles in Oakland. That's not Ryan's falure. Dobs hasn't called one play yet and you and Og are declaring him as terrible. You CLAIM you are drawing your conclusions based on the facts, yet you ignore all the facts and post a bunch of crap. You even state things that are false as fact.

How many people did Gini contact about the coordinators jobs? You have stated that he didn't look hard enough or go after anyone else, so you must have information as to who he talked to. Please share it with us. How many people did he call about the jobs before making his decision. Oh, you don't know? Then how do you know that he didn't look around enough and decide on these coaches as the best choices? You don't, you are making blind leaps because you have predetermined that Gini and Co. aren't the media darling favorites so they are terrible.

The "facts" show that when Ryan ran HIS system HIS way, that he had a top 5 defense. Once he was told by his BOSS to change that system and limited what schemes he could use, they fell dramatically. So, just looking at Ryan's "track record", he is a good DC that was handcuffed and forced into a system that wasn't his strong suit. Those are the FACTS behind the numbers.

So, you don't have any information as to how many candidates Gini contacted, but say that he didn't do enough. Hmmmm, ok. It has been reported that he was working on filling his staff well before the official announcement he was the HC.

I am not a "blind leaper". I look at the facts and base my opinion on them. Mangini had 2 out of 3 winning seasons as a HC. Ryan has run a top 5 defense. Those are hardly things that you hve to be a "blind leaper" to see can work well here in Cleveland.

Ok, I think the problem here is how you are going about this...

instead of mentioning you have reservations about the guys we are hiring, which is fine...you immediately are going on the attack, which is unwarranted.


NE has consistently had some of the best ST units the past 10 years. No reservations could be about him and you did not have any. Good.

Daboll is inexperienced, you nor anyone in the NFL knows if he is below average OC at this point. Inexperience is a serious reservation, but Mangini might feel his work warranted the promotion.

Mangini is an experienced HC. He is young (which matters more when they are inexperienced). He has 2 winning seasons in 3 years. Whether or not his style will work here could be in question, but at worst, he is an average coach and many here believe he will be much more than that (this is where his age actually helps him. he has more potential for growing and he is already at least an average coach).

Ryan is an experienced DC. You feel he did not have good defenses in Oakland, but you also claimed he never had a good year unlike Chud. That was an incorrect statement.

Let's go over some career highlights (from his wiki site):

Ryan originally entered the NFL coaching ranks in 1994 as defensive backs coach on his father staff at Arizona Cardinals. In 1995, the Cardinals led the NFL with 32 interceptions and 42 total takeaways. The 1994 Cardinals ranked second in the NFL total defense, second in run defense and third in pass defense.

He served as defensive coordinator at Hutchinson Community College in 1996, where they led the nation in total defense (228 yards per game) and in sacks (56). His defense also set a national record by forcing 49 turnovers.

From 1997–99, Ryan was Oklahoma State defensive coordinator, where he was was named Coordinator of the Year by The Sporting News in 1997.
In 1999, they were ranked 10th in the nation in total defense. In 1998, they were second in the nation with 41 sacks. In his first season at Oklahoma State, the Cowboys defense finished among the nation top-20 in turnover margin, rushing defense, scoring defense and total defense, allowing just 302.7 yards per game

NE LB coach from 2000-2003. In 2003, Ryan's squad helped the Patriots defense rank first in the NFL in fewest points allowed 238 while ranking seventh overall in the NFL in total defense. Ryan's unit also contributed to one of the best scoring defenses in franchise history in 2001, as the Patriots allowed just 17 points per game and produced Pro Bowlers Willie McGinest and Tedy Bruschi.

The 2005 Raiders defense featured the NFL's leading sack artist, Burgess, who had 16 sacks and a Pro Bowl invitation.

In 2006, Ryan oversaw a defense that led the NFL in pass defense and ranked third in total defense. Bill Arnsbarger’s “Football Insiders” Defensive Coordinator of the Year.

In 2007, Ryan coordinated a Raiders defense that produced two players who ranked in the top-10 in the AFC in sacks, ranked third in the NFL in percentage of passes intercepted, eighth in the NFL in pass defense, fifth in the AFC in opponent’s third down efficiency (39 percent) and sixth in the AFC in opponent’s Inside the 20 touchdown percentage.

2008 was a lost year where he tried to bail Oakland because of conflicts with Kiffin and Davis, but Al Davis persuaded him somehow to stay.



Now, that doesn't sound like a mediocre coach to me. And definitely not one that is a "bend-dont-break" defense guy. We will see what he brings to the table here, but he has proven he is quite capable in the past. The main reservations on him would be from the past 2 years when Oakland switched to the 4-3 defense and Ryan couldn't adjust. Part of that is on him for not being able to handle it, but we are not running the 4-3.

Wow No Logo,,, nice job.. Thanks for squaring away some concerns that I had..

I'm pretty open minded and tend to support the status quo until proven otherwise.. But I did have some misgivings about Ryan and Daboll... you brought some perspective to the situation,, and I thank you for that.

no logo.....nice post..

nordawg

You of course are entitled to an opinion like anyone else.

You have a point of the inexperience of a first time OC...hey they all got to start somewhere....but he's no way close to the inexperience that came with Chud.

Your description of Ryan "Mediocre at best" - I think this brought the credibility of your opinion to actually leave the realms of reasonable thought and to the depth of Eyeore...the Winnie the Pooh character.

But to label this as failure without any real basis. Go right ahead but even if the new regime prooves in the future to be defunct. You did not shed any light to the subject nor called it. Just an Eyeore woah is me post.

I don't like the OC pick. We are taking a huge gamble. I wanted a proven comodity. I don't know what to think of Ryan. His defense was extremely good a few years back even though their offense was pitiful. They were on the field all the time and still had good stats.

I also would have prefered an experienced GM. I don't care if Accorsi recommends the guy or not.

I am happy with the Mangini pick. He has experience and seemed to do well with the Jets. He had a bad season last year. Maybe you can enlighten us on possible reasons? In case anyone doesn't know I'm asking you because of your proximity to New York City.

I haven't read all the posts but I will butt my nose in anyway.

You have a very good point about the OC. I don't really care for his lack of quality experience. Being the QB coach of the Jets is not something I think is a plus.

I think you are probably overreacting as to Ryan. I'm not about to tell you that you ruined your credibility because of that statement. I can see how a valid arguement can be made supporting your position, I just don't think I would agree.

I don't live anywhere near NY and it seems sort obvious why the Jets had a "bad" year.

They were 8-3 having topped the Titans and becoming the 'chic' pick to win the AFC and possibly the Superbowl.

Then, Favre started having throwing problems (ended up being a torn biceps) but he refused to acknowledge the degree it was affecting his throwing and the team. Mangini either didn't (bad on him) or couldn't (if it was from FO, then bad on them) bench Favre down the stretch as his passing was clearly affected by his injury and he thew 2 TDs and 9 INTs.

Just to clarify, I was talking about 2007-2008 where they only won four games.

I haven't been paying attention to the Brett Farve saga so I didn't know he had an injury. It was obvious that he went downhill pretty fast and if Mangini stayed with him despite the injury I would have a different opinion.

From the snipets I heard from the players it sounded like they didn't blame Mangini.

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Mangini either didn't (bad on him) or couldn't (if it was from FO, then bad on them) bench Favre down the stretch as his passing was clearly affected by his injury and he thew 2 TDs and 9 INTs.

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Maybe they just figured that an injured Favre still gave them a better chance than a healthy Ratliff or Clemens?

I would reply to that season with the fact that Pennington was hurt the entire year and ineffective because of it. Also, Clemens went 3-5 as the starter. Now, that's not a great record, but to take someone like CLEMENS and go 3-5 isn't exactly terrible.

Add to that the fact that he was a part of coming up with the game plan, was part of the process of play calling, etc. and it's not like he has been in a vacuum and only coached the QBs on how to take a snap and hold a clipboard I'm only at the college level, but I am heavily involved as a position coach in coming up with the game plans and play calls for the defense. I can't imagine it's any different at the NFL level.....especially with someone the HC thinks has potential to move up.

that could be.

Wow, No Logo, great/excellent post.

Hopefully these guys will be the ones to finally bring a Lombardi to the Browns and us fans.

JMHO here.................

But I liken some of these posts much like a tantrum a kid would throw while wanting a big wheel for Christmas that ends up getting a telescope.

The telescope, in the end, is a far more valuable tool, but it's simply not what they wanted.
But hey, that's JMO......

I understand you having reservations P. I think that is understandable. But some of these guys with the Chicken Little, sky is fallin thing? Yep, they didn't get the Big Wheel they wanted.

DING DING DING! We have a winner.

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Yep, they didn't get the Big Wheel they wanted.

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LOL for some, it's not they didn't get the big wheel, but that mom and dad didn't spend enough time agonizing over the gift in the first place

It's not even that because, they say it's that, but when their friends' parents rush and buy the first Big Wheel they see, it's the right thing to do.

I figured some of the posts were like that since I've been reading some over the top responses. I'm not about to yell the sky is falling because I simply don't know. I loved the picks of Savage and Crennel. I see how well thatworked out. In fact, from the snipets I've heard Savage was a train wreck and may have taken Crennel down with him.

Actually Opie tied Rac to the rails then tried to run over him..Lerner derailed him at the junction before it hit Rac..

He certainly greased the wheels, if nothing else RAC had/has his own negatives. Unfortunately, he had to have them compounded by Savage. They simply didn't fit together. Either could have been successful with a different dance partner.

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Hey now, if they bought the first telescope they saw without doing research because they thought it was perfect and it broke on me, I'd be pretty frustrated.

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Now don't be offended by this Spec... but I get the feeling that you are already a frustrated person Just razzing you a little man...

Spectre won't be happy with anything less than the Hubble telescope.

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Of course I'm frustrated... you're not frustrated by a decade of sucky football? Maybe hope really does spring eternal

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Oh sure, I am frustrated by the lack of a quality team.. you bet I am.

But I'm just trying to look at it as if I were in Randy Lerners shoes..

Think about it, he's got hundreds of millions of dollars invested in this organization. Then as a fan since he was a little boy, he's got emotion invested in this organization.

He wanted to win.. But when he took over, I really don't think he was prepared for what he was about to face. His father was a tough guy.. Ex Marine.. he knew how to adapt and overcome (yeah, movie line, but true)

But Randy didn't. He really appears to be more of an academic. (not that that's a bad thing)

He needed to study, he needed to see, he needed witness what happens when thngs aren't right at the start.

He made a mistake with Savage and RAC.. but it's not one that was all that avoidable. both of those guys were clearly considered excellent hires back then..

Ahh, as it turns out,, not so much I guess!

So now with 6 years of experience under his belt, some pain, some whip marks on his backside.. he seems to be taking over.

Bout time!

Let's see what the guy can do....