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Just remember Daboll will be a rookie OC..another first timer..
But he has 10 years of "experience" and he has breathed in and out succesfully for over 30 years now....he qualifies for the job, can´t you see it? 
I can see how those unqualified to make such hires seem to be so sure they know something "special" that everyone else are to naive to see.
But I'm not buying it.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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But he has 10 years of "experience" and he has breathed in and out succesfully for over 30 years now....he qualifies for the job, can´t you see it?
Here is what I actually wrote (so noone else needs to page back):
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HC - Mangini. 15+ years of coaching + 3 as HC. Experienced.
DC - Ryan. 20+ years of coaching + 4 as DC. Experienced.
OC - Daboll. 10+ years of coaching but Inexperienced at OC.
ST - Seeley. 10yrs ST coach for NE. Experienced.
That is all we know for sure about the staff that Mangini has put together. 3/4 are experienced and the 3rd is someone that Mangini has worked with closely.
I would like to believe that Mangini believes Daboll is ready for the OC job as his job is closely tied to Daboll's success, but he could be wrong in his judgement. So, that is a reservation I have.
I have attempted to be fair-handed in my replies despite your obvious attacks to others. I will continue to do so because I see no reason to do otherwise. However, I would appreciate it if you would not twist what I say to use in your attacks as a courtesy to me. Thank you.
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Well aware of that Attack. Unlike some, I don't see this as a pre-qualification for the 'Destined to Suck' Club.
Didn't say he would suck..he is stepping into a spot as a first time OC..just like all first time coordinators will struggle..
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Can you quote "one reliable source" that gives us a clear picture of what "powers he recieved fromRandy"? I mean if you're going on nothing but pure speculation, fine. But speculation has nothing to do with "facts". And trying to present your speculations as fact doesn't change that.
3. I hear that new Browns coach Eric Mangini is rearranging the offices and plans on making huge changes in Cleveland. He’s going to put his own stamp on the franchise, and no job is safe. But former head coach Romeo Crennel will stay on in the football operation after he has hip surgery. The Browns might look at Nick Cesario of the Patriots as a GM candidate if George Kokinis turns down the job — which some suspect he may.
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/01/national-football-post-tavern-talk-94/
He "got" 3 buddies already and 2 buds are 1+2 on the GM list and others who are not have pulled out and reports flying around that Lerner loves Mangini....connect the dots Mister
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You keep rambling the same stuff. Is there a real point? Who cares if the guys brought in are friends? I know that means nothing to me. All I care about is if they can turn things around or not. Having a friendship and being able to get along to make decisions together would help in my opinion.
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Dude, every coach in the nfl has 10+ years of coaching background, no need to try to make somebody look more experienced...experience is relative....and in comparison to others, esp. if Kokinis will be hired, the new Browns regime is "inexperienced"...also, we might be the only team in the NFL that lacks a coach who has ever called a snap at 1 side of the ball...we have a HC with DC background and a rookie OC, who has never called a snap at ANY level of play, who started his career at the D-side of the ball...add to that a young QB and you have a recipe for failure
And again...I never said we´re going to suck with this regime...I explicitly wrote "mediocrity"...I just don´t think they will succeed and get us far, especially long term
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Can you quote "one reliable source" that gives us a clear picture of what "powers he recieved fromRandy"? I mean if you're going on nothing but pure speculation, fine. But speculation has nothing to do with "facts". And trying to present your speculations as fact doesn't change that.
3. I hear that new Browns coach Eric Mangini is rearranging the offices and plans on making huge changes in Cleveland. He’s going to put his own stamp on the franchise, and no job is safe. But former head coach Romeo Crennel will stay on in the football operation after he has hip surgery. The Browns might look at Nick Cesario of the Patriots as a GM candidate if George Kokinis turns down the job — which some suspect he may.
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/01/national-football-post-tavern-talk-94/
He "got" 3 buddies already and 2 buds are 1+2 on the GM list and others who are not have pulled out and reports flying around that Lerner loves Mangini....connect the dots Mister
Well, you've proven that Mangini is hiring people on his staff that he can work with, and Learner is listening to Mangini when it comes to GM.
Hardly full control. Just Learner trying to get a functional, communicating organization.
you had a good run Hank.
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Pitt, I am as unsure as anyone (including yourself and the other homers) how this will turn out. It could be Mangini is the next Vince Lambardi.........or he could be the next Norv Turner.......who knows. However, some of the stuff you guys are spouting defy logic. Mangini is running the org for the most part, and it's rather easy to see that. He's given Lerner a list of guys he would work with, and as Django said it's a list comprised of mostly his buddies. He's also been given a free reign to hire the assistants that he wants (and that's how it should be). He is the "head" man no matter who the GM eventually is (most likely his buddy Koke). I am not a fan of a HC being the main guy, but would rather a GM be the main guy and then hire a HC that shares his vision. Imo this is where the mistake was made last time.........not letting Savage hire his HC. Anyway, Lerner went about it bass ackwards off what I would have done, but we did receive the same result in that we should end up with a unified FO........good job on that one Randy!!!  However, there is no need to deny what is pretty much a given.......... 1. Randy hired Mangini and pretty much said who do you want as your GM 2. Randy made sure that Mangini answered to no one but him. 3. Mangini has been given free reign to hire/fire assistants as he sees fit (this is how it should be........RAC got screwed on this one) That pretty much adds up to Mangini answering to the owner, and the owner asking who HE wanted as the GM. Bro, Mangini is the big cheese.........it's okay to admit it. Django, you, nor I know how this will turn out, but Django bringing up legitimate ???s about some things are okay, and he shouldn't have to defend common sense conclusions because it doesn't fit your guy's agenda. What Diam posted was basically right...........you have you guys in one corner spouting "All hail king Mangini and his lordship Lerner", and the other corner making crap up and dumping on anything Lerner/Mangini do. The problem with that is when a legitimate point like the one Django has brought up get's posted, it get's flamed because it doesn't fit a certain agenda or some of the things I've seen about Ryan posted on here that are just flat out lies from the other side..........that isn't good for information nor good HONEST debate on whether this will end up being a good hire/ FO structure for the Browns.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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if George Kokinis turns down the job — which some suspect he may.
If this turns out to be true, then I have a bad feeling about all of this. Not only is he the missing link to what Mangini is reportedly wanting, but he would be another to decline to come here. 
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Big Willie,as you well know,it's always been that way.
I enjoy these discussions,ocasionally I even learn something.No,I don't mean how to be an ignorant a-hole,as I've got that down pat.But alot of good points and sometimes well thought out and researched posts are made.
There will always be those that defend every move the org.makes against those that have legimate questions or concerns,and that's what makes it all worthwhile.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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"He "got" 3 buddies already and 2 buds are 1+2 on the GM list and others who are not have pulled out and reports flying around that Lerner loves Mangini....connect the dots Mister"
Sorry to pile on but hey, you made your bed...lol 
What you are twisting to some weird bazaar ugly Brown's thing is actually what Randy and actually everybody I have seen involved with football operations state. There has to be a STRONG WORKING RELATIONSHIP with all involved. HC/GM and their respective staff's.
Now in your warped translation this is suppose to be a BAD THING - So he actually had Good respected coaches willing to work under him...THAT IS BAD?
So he has a short list of GM candidates that he can work well with...THAT IS BAD?
I simply fail to see anything that you have brought to this discussion that actually makes this bad...except for the fact that IF YOU OWNED THE TEAM...you would have done it differently.
It doesn't spell doom.
Look you can take any combination of anyone HC and GM and I can make a superficial case that it just won't be good.
It doesn't make that all things are an automatic for success. Its just that a formula for success does exist. It has been spelled out actually. What we do know is that so far all parties involved seem to be on the same page. There is no knowledge of doom with certain parties like Davidson vs Carthon. Grantham wanting RAC's job.
There is no guarantee that Mangini will be a special coach...nor that his plan that all are on the same page with him will be a good one. But usually even so because all are on the same page there is success just maybe not Post Season success...just always a Bridesmaid stuff.
There is no guarantee that Kokinis will be a special GM...he only comes with the highest references and if on board will be on the same page as Mangini. We will be way ahead of the game. I can see the positives but I really don't visualize this worst case scenario which you wish to present pulling for straws on any possible negative spin.
Oh and last but not least. I'd have to question your source.
"The Browns might look at Nick Cesario of the Patriots as a GM candidate if George Kokinis turns down the job — which some suspect he may."
Thems who do suspect really go far with credibility...  And I'll eat crow if I'm wrong. But if he is going to turn down the job wouldn't you think he'd cancel the 2nd meeting we made? That statement just gives no credibility so why even bring them up as a source giving you a foundation...which it really doesn't. But I know it is in print but I think the request given to you stated clearly..."RELIABLE SOURCE" of which that would not be.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Please no Mangini. Keep Rip or find someone else, but don't go back to the guy who coached Couch and Holcomb.
Don't blame the QB's coach for not being able to perform miracles. Couch didn't have it between the ears to succeed and Holcomb was too much about himself to win.
That's like blaming Rip for Dorsey not playing well.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I have attempted to be fair-handed in my replies despite your obvious attacks to others. I will continue to do so because I see no reason to do otherwise
You've done just fine No Logo... just fine. Your assesment is nothing more than a report on facts.
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HC - Mangini. 15+ years of coaching + 3 as HC. Experienced.
DC - Ryan. 20+ years of coaching + 4 as DC. Experienced.
OC - Daboll. 10+ years of coaching but Inexperienced at OC.
ST - Seeley. 10yrs ST coach for NE. Experienced.
These item are undeniable facts... Not a damn thing wrong with them.
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That is all we know for sure about the staff that Mangini has put together. 3/4 are experienced and the 3rd is someone that Mangini has worked with closely.
Again, another fact.. can't be denied..
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I would like to believe that Mangini believes Daboll is ready for the OC job as his job is closely tied to Daboll's success, but he could be wrong in his judgement. So, that is a reservation I have.
This is your hope and your opinion and you've stated it as such...
For the life of me, I can't find a damn thing wrong with your comments... keep them coming man... keep them coming.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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That's like blaming Rip for Dorsey not playing well
are you saying that it's not Rips fault that dorsey stunk up the place?
LOL Just kidding,, nice to see you posting so much again Toad,, I missed ya.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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So you are basing your belief in a rumor mill that somebody "heard something"?
Well all-righty then!
Like I said, a "reliable source".
But hey, I can show you a lot of "I heard" stuff from unreliable sources if that's what you wish to hang your hat on.
IMO- There's not much "reliable" about "I hear". But whatever you feel works for you.......
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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That's like blaming Rip for Dorsey not playing well
are you saying that it's not Rips fault that dorsey stunk up the place?
LOL Just kidding,, nice to see you posting so much again Toad,, I missed ya.
Just so we're clear, this doesn't mean we're gonna be swappin' spit in the shower, D.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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You just absolutely cannot go wrong with a quote from Heartbreak Ridge.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Not with Grand Torino comin' out
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Pitt, I am as unsure as anyone (including yourself and the other homers) how this will turn out. It could be Mangini is the next Vince Lambardi.........or he could be the next Norv Turner.......who knows. However, some of the stuff you guys are spouting defy logic. Mangini is running the org for the most part, and it's rather easy to see that. He's given Lerner a list of guys he would work with, and as Django said it's a list comprised of mostly his buddies. He's also been given a free reign to hire the assistants that he wants (and that's how it should be). He is the "head" man no matter who the GM eventually is (most likely his buddy Koke).
So it's your assertion that Lerner just tells Mangini he has full control? I highly doubt that and I'll get into that a little later.
Now I DO believe that Lerner asked Mangini to list "several people" that he feels he can work with. Which would make a LOT of sense considering our last fiasco. Wouldn't you say?
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I am not a fan of a HC being the main guy, but would rather a GM be the main guy and then hire a HC that shares his vision. Imo this is where the mistake was made last time.........not letting Savage hire his HC. Anyway, Lerner went about it bass ackwards off what I would have done, but we did receive the same result in that we should end up with a unified FO........good job on that one Randy!!! However, there is no need to deny what is pretty much a given..........
See, this is the part where you lost me. Lerner said "each guy ( both GM and HC ) must report to him". To me, that would mean each man will be held accountable for their respective jobs. And that in actuality, Lerner is in charge. Anything else seems to be pure speculation IMO
Why would he ask for accountability from both men if one of them was "in charge" of the other? Lerner just went through an ordeal where "one man was head hauncho" and it failed miserably. So now? EACH guy must report to him with no "head hauncho" dictating to the other. To me, this is far more plausable.
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1. Randy hired Mangini and pretty much said who do you want as your GM
OR he said, make a list of avaiable talent at the GM spot you would like to "work with" in the order of your prefrance. In case you missed it, Lerner plainly stated that Coke had the job "if the interview went well". Which would seem to indicate that nobdy simply got a "green light" without Lerner feeling comfortable with them too.
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2. Randy made sure that Mangini answered to no one but him.
AND that the GM must report to Lerner as well. That's about each man being accountable to Lerner for their respective jobs.
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3. Mangini has been given free reign to hire/fire assistants as he sees fit (this is how it should be........RAC got screwed on this one)
Which I agree with. Isn't this how it's usually done in the NFL? HC's hire their own staff?
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That pretty much adds up to Mangini answering to the owner, and the owner asking who HE wanted as the GM. Bro, Mangini is the big cheese.........it's okay to admit it.
If I believed it were true in the manner you laid it out, I would admit it. But I don't, so I won't. Once again, you left out what Lerner said in the very same breath. BOTH guys report directly to Lerner. Not "just Mangini".
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Django, you, nor I know how this will turn out, but Django bringing up legitimate ???s about some things are okay, and he shouldn't have to defend common sense conclusions because it doesn't fit your guy's agenda.
What agenda? We got the most qualifed HC we've hired since our return. NOBODY knows how the power structure will be set up. Not me either. How in the world do you call them "common sense conclusions" because the GM and HC must be accountable to the owner?
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What Diam posted was basically right...........you have you guys in one corner spouting "All hail king Mangini and his lordship Lerner", and the other corner making crap up and dumping on anything Lerner/Mangini do. The problem with that is when a legitimate point like the one Django has brought up get's posted, it get's flamed because it doesn't fit a certain agenda or some of the things I've seen about Ryan posted on here that are just flat out lies from the other side..........that isn't good for information nor good HONEST debate on whether this will end up being a good hire/ FO structure for the Browns.
There's a difference in trying to "bring up questions", and trying to convey those questions as facts. Two seperate things. I have questions too. My sig. is more a laugh towards all of the Negative Nancy's than it is anything else.
Now, I agree that none of us know how this will play out. But my God man, we're bringing in more NFL experience with Mangini/Ryan at their respective positions than we ever have before.
So while I can't predict the future, all the nay sayers are grasping at straws to pooh pooh the whole thing before we even get in any evidence.
Like I eluded to earlier.......bringing up questions and concerns is one thing, but turning questions into "matter of fact" statements? That's playing Miss Cleo and nothing more.......
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Just so we're clear, this doesn't mean we're gonna be swappin' spit in the shower, D.
Yeah Yeah,,, but will ya still respect me in the mornin
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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But my God man, we're bringing in more NFL experience with Mangini/Ryan at their respective positions than we ever have before.
Well, there was at least one hire since 1999 were the guy was technically qualified.. Dave Campo as DC.... and there may have been a ST Coach or two that you would consider experienced... But beyond that,, yeah, not many guys with experience in the job they were hired to do..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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He "got" 3 buddies already and 2 buds are 1+2 on the GM list and others who are not have pulled out and reports flying around that Lerner loves Mangini....connect the dots Mister
You're flippen PRICELESS...
WTF would u rather have...People (Buddies) he actually has a clue about what they've done and are capable of...Or people he has no idea about but interview well???...
Stuck on Stupid does mean something...
Go Browns!!!
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Thems who do suspect really go far with credibility... And I'll eat crow if I'm wrong. But if he is going to turn down the job wouldn't you think he'd cancel the 2nd meeting we made? That statement just gives no credibility so why even bring them up as a source giving you a foundation...which it really doesn't. But I know it is in print but I think the request given to you stated clearly..."RELIABLE SOURCE" of which that would not be.
JMHO
and Pit...
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So you are basing your belief in a rumor mill that somebody "heard something"?
Well all-righty then!
Like I said, a "reliable source".
Michael Lombardi is as reliable a source as it gets (works for NFL Network too btw)....he was in many front offices for many years....he has connections and he doesn´t talk out of his arse, I´d consider him as areliable as Schefter...when he writes he "hears this and that" it might not go down that way but you can be sure there was talk...you don´t know him or his fantastic blog, who had most news a day earlier then most official sites?...and accurate at that...well...I have sent this to some friends and it has become their #1 site for nfl information, just like mine
check back his earlier entries if you don´t believe me and read his blog, some other writers on there are also worthwhile.....you guys may learn something, it´s really good stuff
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You're flippen PRICELESS...
WTF would u rather have...People (Buddies) he actually has a clue about what they've done and are capable of...Or people he has no idea about but interview well???...
Stuck on Stupid does mean something...
Lol...
problems with nepotism (hiring buddies to work under yourself) have always been in every working environment:
1. rigorous, honest criticism of your body of work from both ends at that
2. accountability (see no further than RAC-Carthon)
Most of the times it culminates in blindly following the leader.
Sheesh...do I have to spell everything out for you guys? and I thought it was obvious what I was alluding to with my pejorative use of "buddies"
Example: Imagine you´re a newly hired Coordinator. After some games/or a season it doesn´t look good and your HC schedules a meeting with all the coaches and FO for problem solving brainstorm. He asks "what can we do better?" You have some ideas how to get better which may involve dissing some things your HC has wanted/preached.
Now, in which situation do you feel more comfortable to raise your hand and voice:
a) being hired by GM and HC cause and not knowing both before your gig beacuse you had a raving review/or good track record.
b) being buds with your HC and knowing the GM and all other coaches in this meeting are too
Cmon...be honest for once...
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Well, now that Gruden has been fired,,, should be fire Mangini and hire him and his GM Allen who also got the axe?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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problems with nepotism (hiring buddies to work under yourself) have always been in every working environment:
1. rigorous, honest criticism of your body of work from both ends at that
2. accountability (see no further than RAC-Carthon)
Most of the times it culminates in blindly following the leader.
Sheesh...do I have to spell everything out for you guys? and I thought it was obvious what I was alluding to with my pejorative use of "buddies"
Example: Imagine you´re a newly hired Coordinator. After some games/or a season it doesn´t look good and your HC schedules a meeting with all the coaches and FO for problem solving brainstorm. He asks "what can we do better?" You have some ideas how to get better which may involve dissing some things your HC has wanted/preached.
Now, in which situation do you feel more comfortable to raise your hand and voice:
a) being hired by GM and HC cause and not knowing both before your gig beacuse you had a raving review/or good track record.
b) being buds with your HC and knowing the GM and all other coaches in this meeting are too
Now I'll admit this is a decent arguement, but after reading this whole thread, all I get is that you think Mangini is the wrong guy, and because Randy likes him, he will tell Randy who to hire in every position, and they will all be his friends 
Face it, your whole arguement is that you don't like Mangini. Why are you wasting so much time saying anything else? You think Lerner is an idiot and can't make a decision so he is letting his man love for Mangini pull the strings.
1 out of 3 coordinators hasn't been in that position before so the rest of them's experience doesn't count?
Believe what you want, but your arguements are lame at best. You don't even have a good arguement against Mangini, just your opinion being used as fact.
#gmstrong
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Yeah, youre so right. After all that Parcells hiring his buddies sure didn't work. That Belechick was a JOKE and that was such an utter failure. Same with Jerry Jones hiring his buddy from colege that had never coached in the NFL before. That Jimmy Johnson absolutely SUCKED. Want me to go on? The simple fact is that most NFL coaches hire assts that they know and trust. You are acting like this is opposite of the norm and is a disaster. I could list 30 successful head coaches that did exactly what you are claiming is so terrible.
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1st String
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1st String
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Well, now that Gruden has been fired,,, should be fire Mangini and hire him and his GM Allen who also got the axe?
I wish, but it would never happen.
![[Linked Image from i161.photobucket.com]](http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t215/nick_ogrin/ogdawg.jpg) Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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Dawg Talker
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Not with Grand Torino comin' out
It's GRAN Torino. You Yum Yum.
Oh, that's right. You're Toad. (you'd have to see the movie)
I still say that we should stop whining over the hires until they do something to deserve it.
![[Linked Image from members.cox.net]](http://members.cox.net/flyinc5/smallsigpics/frcburnout.gif) AL 29 76 14 R_K
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Legend
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Legend
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I still say that we should stop whining over the hires until they do something to deserve it.
According to some here, it appears that simply breathing is enough to start the whining train.
#GMSTRONG
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Legend
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Legend
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problems with nepotism (hiring buddies to work under yourself) have always been in every working environment:
1. rigorous, honest criticism of your body of work from both ends at that
2. accountability (see no further than RAC-Carthon)
Most of the times it culminates in blindly following the leader.
Sheesh...do I have to spell everything out for you guys? and I thought it was obvious what I was alluding to with my pejorative use of "buddies"
Hey DJ....How about this...we let Mangini coach a season or two here in Cleveland before we try to assess his performance and the performance of his staff?
Now you might not like my idea and you might not like who is being hired and fired, but guess what?...that is exactly what is going to happen and you nor I can do a thing about it.
So you can either support the Browns and everyone that goes with the team, or you might try to find a team your happy with..."your choice".
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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All Pro
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I'm amazed there is 4 pages in this thread and more in others where people are argueing back and forth about the hires when we havent gone through free agency, draft or taken a snap. How does anyone know if they will produce or not.
To me Magini was the coach I wanted with the Chucky firing I'm still happy with Magini I personaly believe he will bring a toughness and displine we are sorely missing. With the addition the Ryan hiring will give our d the direction its lacked since '99.
But brother dawgs we have been here before we need to just wait and see. I true believe we have the start of a good thing here.
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2nd String
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I'm amazed there is 4 pages in this thread and more in others where people are argueing back and forth about the hires when we havent gone through free agency, draft or taken a snap. How does anyone know if they will produce or not.
To me Magini was the coach I wanted with the Chucky firing I'm still happy with Magini I personaly believe he will bring a toughness and displine we are sorely missing. With the addition the Ryan hiring will give our d the direction its lacked since '99.
But brother dawgs we have been here before we need to just wait and see. I true believe we have the start of a good thing here.
Do I detect a glimmer of hope in your voice.
I've read through the whole thread, and what I take from the whole thing is that some people really like the Mangini hiring, some people really DO NOT like the hiring.
GUESS WHAT. RANDY PROBABLY DON'T CARE WHAT WE THINK.
And I for one like the hiring, but whatever happens guess what, Mangini is here to stay for at least 3 years I would say.
Hopefully for we fans this is the one that takes for a while, but who knows for sure.
If you don't like you can do one of two things.
Root for the Browns or find another team. 
Hope springs eternal in the heart of a true Browns fan. GO BROWNS!!!!!
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Hall of Famer
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Face it, your whole arguement is that you don't like Mangini. Why are you wasting so much time saying anything else? You think Lerner is an idiot and can't make a decision so he is letting his man love for Mangini pull the strings.
No, if you really read all the posts you should know I´m not having a big problem with Mangini per se...he is ok, he knows his stuff...sure about that, dunno bout his leadership and motivational skills though....overall it´s ok
again, what I don´t think is ok is the obvious power and "promotion" he got here...it´s totally unwarranted imho
and yes, I´ll root for him
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All Pro
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Yes its a glimmer of hope. I agree he is here a minimum of 3 years. What I'm hoping is he will have it totally turned around before then and fans give him time to do it
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So it's your assertion that Lerner just tells Mangini he has full control? I highly doubt that and I'll get into that a little later.
Now I DO believe that Lerner asked Mangini to list "several people" that he feels he can work with. Which would make a LOT of sense considering our last fiasco. Wouldn't you say?
No I don't think Mangini has full control, but I do think he's "heading" up the front office. Bud he's basically giving Lerner a list of who HE wants to work with......psst the new GM is getting the gig because of EMs recommendation. I don't think Django was saying that EM would have total control of the team, but rather was heading up the FO...........and considering he's was hired 1st, and has a role in who will be named in nearly all the FO positions. Bud that makes him the head of the FO structure by default. I don't think anybody (at least I'm not) is saying he's got Botch type control, but rather he's the "head" guy. Furthermore, although as I said earlier I would have done it differently, I don't neccessarily think this is a bad structure or won't work.
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See, this is the part where you lost me. Lerner said "each guy ( both GM and HC ) must report to him". To me, that would mean each man will be held accountable for their respective jobs. And that in actuality, Lerner is in charge. Anything else seems to be pure speculation IMO
Why would he ask for accountability from both men if one of them was "in charge" of the other? Lerner just went through an ordeal where "one man was head hauncho" and it failed miserably. So now? EACH guy must report to him with no "head hauncho" dictating to the other. To me, this is far more plausable.
First, if Lerner is in charge of football ops we are screwed.......so I hope your FOS on that one..lol. Secondly, common sense says if your telling the owner who (or whom as a list was given, and not just one choice) you would like to work with then I have to believe that your probably going to hold the tie breaker............just like the GM would had this process been more of a traditional hire. There again, this isn't necessarily a bad thing, because your basically getting a FO that has common ideas, and shares a common vision for the team...........not like the last fiasco.
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R he said, make a list of avaiable talent at the GM spot you would like to "work with" in the order of your prefrance. In case you missed it, Lerner plainly stated that Coke had the job "if the interview went well". Which would seem to indicate that nobdy simply got a "green light" without Lerner feeling comfortable with them too.
Lerner would have to ok a GM hiring a coach bro, he is the owner you know..lol...it's his money. However, basically what he's saying is unless this guy is a total jerk wad then your going to get your guy to be the GM..........and as I said this isn't a bad thing neccessarily as the other side is trying to make it out either.
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Which I agree with. Isn't this how it's usually done in the NFL? HC's hire their own staff?
Unless you work for Phil Savage then yes...lol
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What agenda? We got the most qualifed HC we've hired since our return. NOBODY knows how the power structure will be set up. Not me either. How in the world do you call them "common sense conclusions" because the GM and HC must be accountable to the owner?
Because your still missing the point. If Lerner hires me per se, and then I recommend my pal Pitt. He hires good old Pitt, and tells us both that we answer directly to him. So who had the most say in the designing of this FO me or you??? We might be the best of friends that never have a dispute, but if push comes to shove, I have a relationship with Lerner that you don't have (considering your here because I said so). Again, nobody is saying that EM will have total control (at least I haven't seen that), but what I am saying is that EM will "head" up this team based upon the fact that the GM is getting hired based on HIS recommendation. I don't see where that is hard to see.
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There's a difference in trying to "bring up questions", and trying to convey those questions as facts.
I agree. The problem in this incident is that he was bringing a legitimate point if you wouldn't have lumped it in with the other crap he was throwing out there. EM is basically going to get his buddy to be the GM. I disagree with Django about it being a bad thing, because as I said earlier I believe that a unified FO is much more important than Lerner getting his two "gurus" to run the FO.......I've just got done watching that train wreck..lol. However, the fact that EM is the big cheese (and again I don't mean total control, but rather head) is the truth based upon what we know now.
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So while I can't predict the future, all the nay sayers are grasping at straws to pooh pooh the whole thing before we even get in any evidence.
Lol.....Dude you've been riding EMs jock since this came out.....your hardly an inncoent bystander. EM has some legitimate ???s about him, and Lerner putting his eggs in that basket has some legitimate ???s about it as well. I agree with you that alot of guys are making up crap to pile on, but you guys are acting like he's the 2nd coming.
I guess I am defensive about this, becuase 4 years ago me and Vers took a BEATING by most on this board for questioning the "messiah" at that time Phil Savage. Well 4 years later we were right, and he was what we thought he was...lol. I just don't like it when honest questions about the FO can't be asked because the "orange & brown" glasses won't let people see them.
Mangini has some ???s about him, and I'll list my concerns so you can know where I am coming from.........
Positives....
1. As you like to mention often he has experience.
2. He's had some success as a HC. Not as much as some try to make it out to be, but he's had some success in the NFL.
3. He's young. So if he's good we ought to have him awhile before burnout sets in. This is as big of an advantage to this hire as any of the others to me.
4. He runs a tough camp, and imo some of these guys need weeded out.......he should start weeding this year, and alot of them will be gone by next off season
Negatives
1. There are multiple reports some of his own coaches didn't like him....not good.
2. The melt down happened on his watch no matter who's fault it was. It's still his watch, and the buck ultimately stops with him. He has to take some of the blame for this.......not all of it, but he has to take some, becuase it's his team.
3. Multiple reports of him not being very good at in game adjustments, and late game decision making.
Let me say that overall I am excited about the new EM/GK FO. I think it has a ton of potential. However, I think there are legitimate ???s and baggage that EM brings with him. I said before RL hired him that if we get the guy the Jets had then this isn't a good hire. However, if EM does indeed learn from previous mistakes as we all hope he will (simular to Belicheck) then this could be a GREAT hire. We just have to wait and see.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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That's like blaming Rip for Dorsey not playing well
are you saying that it's not Rips fault that dorsey stunk up the place?
LOL Just kidding,, nice to see you posting so much again Toad,, I missed ya.
It IS Rip's fault. Dorsey was one of the most successful QBs in college football history!
Just kidding kids.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Bravo Willie, nice post
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Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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You're a very very bad man DP017.... a very bad man
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Browns interview Bryan Cox
by Mary Kay Cabot
Sunday January 18, 2009, 10:47 PM
Browns coach Eric Mangini has interviewed Jets assistant defensive line coach Bryan Cox in Berea, a source close to the situation told The Plain Dealer.
Cox, a former 12-year linebacker who won a Super Bowl with the Patriots after the 2001 season, joined the Jets in 2006 as assistant defensive line coach after four years working for various media outlets.
Cox, known as one of the most intimidating linebackers in the game, spent one season in New England playing for current Browns defensive coordinator Rob Ryan. Mangini was Patriots defensive backs coach at the time.
Cox, who played for the Jets from 1998 to 2000, spent two of those seasons with Mangini, who was a Jets defensive assistant from 1997 to 1999.
The departure of Browns quarterbacks coach Rip Scherer to the Carolina Panthers increases the likelihood of coach Eric Mangini hiring former Browns quarterbacks coach Carl Smith for the same role he had with Cleveland from 2001 to 2003.
Smith, who was interviewed by Mangini on Thursday in Berea, was hired by USC on Jan. 6 to coach quarterbacks and serve as assistant head coach, but was given permission to interview for the Browns job.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Mangini names Coaching additions
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