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j/c
I have no problem with Vick getting a second chance in the NFL and my guess is he will. I just don't want it to be for the Browns and will be furious if it is.
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He can be let out of prison but doesn't mean he needs to play in the NFL. He has a college degree, no ? There's a zillion other jobs he can do.
he came out early.
If he is blackballed here....he will be blackballed everywhere.
The ability to forgive isn't conditional.
Either you do or you don't.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Well, I don't forgive him. I don't think the rest of humanity does either. It's like others said, if he plays in the NFL he will always be booed, always have a bad rep, always be hated by fans. He made this bed and now he has to lie in it.
The rest of America has to make due with whatever jobs are out there. Why doesn't this joker have to do the same. What makes him so freaking great that he is elevated above all of us. He's less than human compared to most people so he can go find himself some normal job.
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He is elevated because he can ball, and majority of Americans can't. He's got skills that make him one of a kind.
He served his time, he prolly still has ability behind Center and someone will pick him up.
I think that people really need to get over it.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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The rest of America has to make due with whatever jobs are out there. Why doesn't this joker have to do the same.
Because he's athletic and can make things happen with a football in his hands.
I don't even like the guy - as a person or a player - but people need to stop acting like life is fair.
George Bush has the intelligence of a janitor. Mike Vick has the moral code of a sociopath. Britney Spears has the talent of a karaoke regular. It doesn't always work out like it should.
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That dude has been sitting in a jail cell and is out of shape. He isn't any kind of GOOD QB. He is an effing strange as hell QB and MOST teams could not deal with him or his style. Atlanta TRIED to adapt to his style and FAILED. What team wants to deal with that.
Regardless what team wants to deal with the bad publicity the boos and the hatred for having this guy on their team. He doesn't fit in the NFL anymore.
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George Bush has the intelligence of a janitor.
phil. get over it. Bush was president. You hate him. We all get it. We all got it years ago. You hate him.
Interestingly enough, I have an aunt that is a janitor, and an uncle that is a janitor. Since I know you hate Bush and think he's stupid, I realize now that you also think janitors are stupid. You really do come across as a pompous ass.
Oh well, at least Bush and most janitors weren't some whiny ass, nothing is good enough for me, crybaby spoiled ass writers in a different life.
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I stand corrected.
Once I read your post, I thought of a friend of mine who is a janitor.
I apologize to any and all janitors for insinuating that they share the same intelligence level as Bush.
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I'm not a liberal but that made me laugh. HA,.
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In my opinion, you get hit with a felony, your done...PERIOD.
Our starting halfback is a felon twice over.
Except he's not. He plead guilty to a misdemeanor charge.
I'm all for forgiveness. LIke I said, MIchael Vick will have paid the debt imposed on him by society. However, even though he will have paid that debt, as a convicted felon he still concedes certain rights and privileges, most notably the right to vote in elections. Playing in the NFL is a privilege as well, and I'm of the opinion that when he was convicted of a felony, he forfeited his privilege to play in the NFL. I place far more value on being a decent human being than I do on having an excellent skill set at a particular sport.
I'm all for him becoming a decent, productive member of society. However, there are plenty of ways he can do that without playing professional sports. He piddled away the great opportunity before him, an opportunity that millions upon millions would jump at in a heartbeat, in favor of personal greed. Let him earn his money the way those who didn't have his opportunities have to. If he becomes wealthy and prosperous in the process, then well done, Michael Vick.
Again, JMHO
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Totally agree. You are way more eloquent than I am in describing it.
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Except he's not. He plead guilty to a misdemeanor charge.
He is.
He had an existing felony before he hit the NFL.
I amend my statement from 'two-time felon' to 'felon'.
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In my opinion, you get hit with a felony, your done...PERIOD.
Our starting halfback is a felon twice over.
Bet you've cheered for him. 
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he should have his %$# tied up and set on fire
Sounds like you got some Mick Vick in you. 
Actually, no..I don't cheer for and / or agree with Jamal being able to play....Just like I don't agree with any of the felons that are still able to play...I don't care who it is......the fact is, I can't do anything about it...I'm not Roger.....If I was, then I can assure you that all of this stuff going on with all of these players would stop......
And as far as having a little Mike Vick in me........not hardly......  .....I'm just a firm believer in what goes around, comes around....corporal punishment, and the death penalty... .....people get off WAAYY to easy...especially if they are movie stars or athletes......let me ask you this.....so you think it is ok for kids to look up to these kind of people...???
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Roscoe5319/Marty2.jpg) "Winning is not a some time thing, it's an all the time thing" ....-Lombardi-
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That dude has been sitting in a jail cell and is out of shape.
Maybe staying in a cell taught him to be a pocket QB ...
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Well, I don't forgive him. I don't think the rest of humanity does either. It's like others said, if he plays in the NFL he will always be booed, always have a bad rep, always be hated by fans. He made this bed and now he has to lie in it.
The rest of America has to make due with whatever jobs are out there. Why doesn't this joker have to do the same. What makes him so freaking great that he is elevated above all of us. He's less than human compared to most people so he can go find himself some normal job.
You always log on around my bed time.....really...I do read a hour or so before nodding off.
I guess I just don't understand the not forgiving part. I understand not liking him....I don't like him.
I just don't think it is right to not forgive and give a 2nd chance.
Now, he may indeed be a pariah and be booed...those indeed are consequences he may have to live with for a long time....possibly forever. It shouldn't however put him in a position where he can't earn a living.
You say he shouldn't be able to work in the NFL...how about working for a pet sitting agency? Well, bad example...I think part of his probation is he can't own dogs, so i would suppose getting a job at the vets is out.
The point is if you can't forgive him to the point of allowing him to do what it is he does, what exactly is it you forgive him enough to allow him to do?
I do know the answer....it is nothing....you can't half way forgive someone. Either you do or you don't.
I don't know...I guess I believe it isn't my job to make those kind of judgments...those come in the end if you believe that sort of thing.
We have laws, he broke them, and paid the price attached with breaking such laws. Once those have been paid, I don't think we can continue to black ball people. That is why most ex prisoners end up back in jail...they get out and then don't stand a chance in hell of making it.
That is why I said what I said earlier....if we are going to let them out, we need to be ready to accept them back. If not, we need to keep them behind bars for life.
JMO
Last edited by Ballpeen; 02/17/09 08:53 AM.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Hey Phil I have a question, if Busch is so stupid surely someone as educated as yourself could do and accomplish more than he has. You know become a more powerful figurehead. So I guess my question is WHAT exactly is it you do to quantify a statement like that? Was you once a President? Senator? Head of a housing authority? It's an honest question, I've lurked this board for a long time and quite honestly I don't remember what it is you do. But surely you are educated and smart enough to rise to power and change this craphole country we live in, yes? Look man I know history so don't bore me with his grades in college, cocaine ect..I just want to know what you do to make a statement like that and what positions have you held to make a difference in policies that this person who is dumb as a janitor made. Honest curiousity.
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I see your point peen. and it makes good sense.
I know I personally am sensitive to this issue because of my feelings for dogs in general. It irks me that he or anyone could do such a thing and I admit that it gets my blood boiling..
But in the end, I know your right about the criminal aspect of this. He did a crime, he did the time. His debt to society is paid and I guess that's why we have the system we have.
As I said before, if he gets past the first huddle (League suspension) then he still has to find a team that will take a chance on him. That may be harder than it appears.
Which team owner will put his name on a contract for this guy? You won't find Bob Kraft doing it, or Dan Rooney... I sure as hell hope Lerner wouldn't do it. Maybe an Al Davis with his rebel without a clue attitude would do it.. don't know.
I wonder if (and you will never know if this happened) the owners are saying to the Commish,, don't lift the suspension, we don't want to deal with it....
I think you know this Peen, but what makes this crime totally anger people so much isn't just the cruelity to the dogs that are trained to fight, but as others have pointed out, it's the ones that are innocent house pets that are stolen and put in a ring to be used as fodder.
It's the cold heartedness of it that grabs people.. people like me,, looks as if Diem is the same and Eve and a few more.
But again, you are right, from a legal standpoint, if he's paid the debt, we gotta let him go make a living.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Well then Dudette, I guess that's where we differ. Playing in the NFL is a job, it's not a right or a privilege.. It's not a job like a surgeon or doctor where poor decision making can get your license revoked because you could cost somebody their life.. it's not even a job like being a lawyer where your ability to do your job could greatly impact the lives of others.. his "job" in the NFL is to throw and run with a stupid football.. that's it. Nothing more and nothing less. So why can't somebody with a criminal record do that job if they have paid the price?
I still maintain it's because they could make a lot of money.. and that just ticks some people off that they can try to live the right way and have to get by on a middle class income while a scumbag like Vick can do so many things wrong and he gets to make millions... that's not about rights and privileges, that just plain envy.
yebat' Putin
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As usual Diam, you not only tried to tell me what you think.. you also tried to tell me what I think. That's a bad habit of yours and you really should just stick to making your own points... Quote:
he made some ASTOUNDINGLY BAD AND CRUEL CHOICES ..
Yes he did, nobody is arguing that.. well if anybody is, it's not me.
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Find a team that is willing to ROLL THE DICE on a QB that was not very good before he went to prison ... so just on football ability its a ROLL OF THE DICE ...
And if 32 football owners look at him and say, "I either don't need him or I'm not willing to take that chance." then I'm fine with that. If one big head honcho league official TELLS 32 owners that they are not ALLOWED to make that choice and do what they think is in the best interest of their own business, that is what I sort of have a problem with.
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and let me guess .. then it will be the NFL Owners and Goodells fault cause Mr. Dck is ABSOLVED of all his decision cause he served his time ....
Yup .. guys like U and Ty Ty and Phil will be whining about how Mr. Dck IS THE VICTIM .. *L* ...
See, this is the part where you try to tell me what I think. Just respond to what I say, if you misinterpret what I said, then I'll help you.. but when you try to tell me what I'm saying, you are almost always wrong.
If each owner decides he doesn't want the risk or the baggage or just doesn't think he's that good.. I'm ok with that. If Goodell says nobody in his fiefdom is allowed to give him a chance because he's a bad guy, then that I have a problem with.
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.. HE WILL HAVE TO DO IT ON HIS OWN ...
This is a funny distinction, you and eve have both made similar assertions (I know she won't read this because of my use of the quote feature)... You don't think guys get to play and stay in the NFL on their own? You think somebody else does the running for them, the weight lifting, the playbook study? You think the guy that built Papa Johns worked harder to get where he is than the guys in the NFL? For some reason he deserves his money but a football player doesn't?
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I can't see how ANY BUSINESS in America would hire or back Mr. Dck and have him in the spotlight ... NOT A SHOT IN HELL ...
Again, as long as each individual business is allowed to make that decision for themselves, then if you're right, you're right.. and my guess is you would be right.
In fact, if you want to talk about sending a message to other players.. I think it would be a much greater lesson if Vick was allowed to try out for teams and couldn't find one that wanted him as opposed to Heir Goodell laying down the law that he wasn't allowed to play...
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HE made BAD CHOICES ... now HE must SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES ...
He did and he has suffered the consequences. He spent his time in prison his reputation is for crap he's probably not in great shape and almost everybody thinks he's a POS... so who gets to decide what his consequences are from here on out?
yebat' Putin
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Playing in the NFL is a privilege as well,
NO IT IS NOT. IT IS A JOB.... and by society's standards, a fairly insignificant job. He doesn't save lives or defend the innocent or save people from burning buildings or defend national secrets.. he THROWS A FREAKIN' FOOTBALL. If you want to whine and complain about how much money he makes, then stop spending so much on the NFL because it is you and me and everybody else on here who allows him to make that much money.
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I'm all for him becoming a decent, productive member of society. However, there are plenty of ways he can do that without playing professional sports.
So if a guy is very successful and owns a plumbing company and he does something cruel and stupid and goes to jail, when he gets out he should no longer be allowed to rejoin his plumbing company where he will immediately make lots of money again, right? he should have to start over, at the bottom doing something other than plumbing? Because that is where his gift is, that is what he's good at.. and according to some of you, you aren't allowed to use your gifts to be successful once you have done something stupid. You are allowed to be successful again, you have to do it some other way...
yebat' Putin
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I don't forgive him. Why would I? I'd have to believe he was truly sorry for what he did. I believe he's sorry, sorry that he got caught. I embrace forgiveness, when forgiveness is justified. In my eyes, it is not in this situation.
The league has the right to keep out people that they believe hurt the game. We can all argue over who does and who doesn't. I think the public will react rather viscerally with this one and that could bring harm to the game in the league's eyes.
I would despise it if he became a member of my team. I don't know that I'd really care if he showed up on another team, other than to root against him at every opportunity.
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Again, as long as each individual business is allowed to make that decision for themselves, then if you're right, you're right.. and my guess is you would be right.
DC,, Goodell is employed by the league which is owned by the owners of the 32 franchises. he's in effect been hired to make sound decisions within the framework of the rules voted on and approved by the franchises and thier owners.
So in effect, if Goodells says, we will not lift the suspension of Vick, he is in fact, doing what the owners hired him to do..
And if he weren't, my guess is there would be a heavy lobbying effort to get him to change his mind by the owners. You didn't see that with other players... Only the NFLPA and occasionally a team ever fights suspensions..
I know it seems like it from time to time, but the NFL itself is not a Goodell Dictatorship. When you really break it down, he's a league employee.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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you also tried to tell me what I think. That's a bad habit of yours and you really should just stick to making your own points...
Thats no fun .. *L* .... this board is mundane enough .... it'd be even more boring w/o me thiinking for everyone else ...
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And if 32 football owners look at him and say, "I either don't need him or I'm not willing to take that chance." then I'm fine with that. If one big head honcho league official TELLS 32 owners that they are not ALLOWED to make that choice and do what they think is in the best interest of their own business, that is what I sort of have a problem with.
So your saying Goodell should not suspend him??
I won't even draw conclusions or think for U this time .. I;ll just ask questions .... *L* ... and U have earned this from me cause unlike most .. U answer almost every question posed to U .. so here goes ..
How do U feel about him suspending Pacman .... Tank Johnson .. Travis Henry ..
and if u think he was correct in suspending these guys .. please elaborate as to why ... and what the differences are in these suspensions and Mr. Dck ..
also do U feel Plex deserves a suspension for what he did ... as so far only the Gnats have suspended him .. please explain this one also ..
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See, this is the part where you try to tell me what I think. Just respond to what I say, if you misinterpret what I said, then I'll help you.. but when you try to tell me what I'm saying, you are almost always wrong.
No ... I wasn't trying to tell U what u think ... I was taking a shot at your views with this remark ... it was a SHOT ... PLAIN AND SIMPLE ... its hard to hear the tone of voice or see the smirk on someones face on here .. so i forgive u (see Peenie I can do it ... *L*) ...
Phil and Ty Ty will whine and moan about it .. cause Phil whines about everything and Ty Ty has defended Mr. Dck like hes his cub ... U .. i would guess would not whine .. but U are UNPREDICTABLE so I would not do that ..
now take a SHOT ... IN A HEARTBEAT ... unless of course U think i am not capable of taking a shot .. *L* ..
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This is a funny distinction, you and eve have both made similar assertions (I know she won't read this because of my use of the quote feature)... You don't think guys get to play and stay in the NFL on their own? You think somebody else does the running for them, the weight lifting, the playbook study? You think the guy that built Papa Johns worked harder to get where he is than the guys in the NFL? For some reason he deserves his money but a football player doesn't?
Dude .. your way off base on your distinctions here .... there are at least 100,000 guys that can start a pizza place and work hard and HAVE GREAT IDEAS like the guy that started Papa Johns compared to the guys that have the skill set to play in the nfl ...
I could have worked hard and had the idea and marketing to do what John did .. NO AMOUT OF WORK IN THE WORLD IS GOING TO GIVE ME THE SKILLS TO BE AN NFL QB ..... NONE ...
so your way off base on that .. its not just ABOUT WORKING HARD ... Papa John CREATED HIS WEALTH from nuttin .... Mr. Dck had the NFL there and waiting for him ... IT WAS ALL READY A PROVEN ENTITY ... he had to take his GOD GIVEN SKILLS and work hard to improve and hone them ... BUT HE CREATED NOTHING FROM SCRATCH ... NOTHING ..
U misenterpeted what I meant by WORK HARD ... sounds like maybe u were TRYING TO THINK FOR ME ... but we both know that after just scolding me for that theres no way you;d turn around and do that ..
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He did and he has suffered the consequences.
he suffered the LEGAL SYSTEMS consequences ... the PENAL SYSTEM IS JUST STEP 1 in the consequences he will face for the rest of his life ... for EVERYONE that comes out of prison the time is just step 1 ... THERE ARE MORE CONSEQUENCES to be faced ...
thats just the way it is .. PEOPLE DO NOT JUST FORGET WHAT HE DID ... and it FOLLOWS all FELONS around ESPECIALLY when looking for work ...
FACT OF THE MATTER IS that most GOOD PAYING JOBS do not hire CONVICTED FELONS as a rule .. are there some exceptions .. sure there are ... but the facts are that CONVICTED FELONS are at a MAJOR DISADVANTAGE in the JOB MARKET .... PERIOD!! ..
and like I said earlier ... Mr. Dck is going to find that out in a hurry IMO ... cause if Hier Rog does not whack him for another .. good luck to him finding the team that wants to put up with the crap storm that will follow if they want to give Mr. Dck another chance that some of U think is his RIGHT!! ..
and BTW . I have said 3 or 4 times .. if the NFL lets him back in and someone does give him a job .. I will be fine with that cause it is the law .. and there is nuttin I can do about it ... now if its my beloved browns ... i will them do the only thing WITHIN MY CONTROL at that point ...
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so who gets to decide what his consequences are from here on out?
depends on what consequences your talking about ... and at the risk of "offending" U again by thinking for U ... I will ASSume that U mean by consequences his ability to play inthe NFL .. well that will be decided in order by:
1. Hier Goodell ... weather U like it or not .. thats the structure the NFL has set up .. and if he gets by the furor ..
2. the NFL Owners .... and that will come down to if they believe that Mr. Dck can improve there team enough to make them winners and there fore make it worth the NEGATIVE press/ picketers and LOSS OF FANS they will have when they give him his chance ...
for the owners that can stomach what he did and are willing to give him another chance .... it will come down to a SIMPLE BUSINESS DECISION ...
hope that helps ... 
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Playing in the NFL is a privilege as well,
NO IT IS NOT. IT IS A JOB.... and by society's standards, a fairly insignificant job. He doesn't save lives or defend the innocent or save people from burning buildings or defend national secrets.. he THROWS A FREAKIN' FOOTBALL. If you want to whine and complain about how much money he makes, then stop spending so much on the NFL because it is you and me and everybody else on here who allows him to make that much money.
Damn, before you get any more bent out of shape about something that doesn't matter, let me rephrase:
The opportunity to hold a job as a professional football player in the NFL is a advantage or opportunity available to those who possess the physical gifts required to successfully compete in the NFL.
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I'm all for him becoming a decent, productive member of society. However, there are plenty of ways he can do that without playing professional sports.
So if a guy is very successful and owns a plumbing company and he does something cruel and stupid and goes to jail, when he gets out he should no longer be allowed to rejoin his plumbing company where he will immediately make lots of money again, right? he should have to start over, at the bottom doing something other than plumbing? Because that is where his gift is, that is what he's good at.. and according to some of you, you aren't allowed to use your gifts to be successful once you have done something stupid. You are allowed to be successful again, you have to do it some other way...
If he's convicted of a felony, as Michael Vick was, and he owns a business, he has every right to return to that business, provided that he 1) does not have to forfeit it when he's convicted, due to bankruptcy or any other reason; and 2) is allowed to maintain his business license as a convicted felon. If he meets those criteria, then sure, he can return to the business that he owns and operates.
A convicted felon loses a legal right to some employment opportunites, depending on the state in question. Michael Vick would not be able to become a doctor or lawyer (all jokes about his intelligence aside). I'm almost certain that he could not join some, if not all, branches of our Armed Forces. He probably could not acquire most licenses required for skilled labor jobs, depending again on the state. Last I checked, Michael Vick did not own or operate any of the NFL's 32 franchises. You stated yourself that it was a job...that would make him an employee of the NFL, correct? I think that most high-profile, very public employers would be hesitant to re-hire a convicted felon. I think that most employers, period, would balk at hiring a convicted felon, except for perhaps unskilled labor positions. I was unable to locate the NFL's mission statement, but I'm willing to believe it has something about integrity or high caliber of character in there.
And again, since apparently you missed it the first time (and the second)...this is JUST MY HUMBLE OPINION
PhilDawsonRocks...what is the felony of which Jamal Lewis was convicted?
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If he pays for his crime and is a rehabilitated individual regarding the society infractions that caused him to lose his freedom and a lot more. I say, let him earn a living again.
Yeah, like the rest of America does. At a daily 9-5 job. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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So your saying Goodell should not suspend him??
I won't even draw conclusions or think for U this time .. I;ll just ask questions .... *L* ... and U have earned this from me cause unlike most .. U answer almost every question posed to U .. so here goes ..
How do U feel about him suspending Pacman .... Tank Johnson .. Travis Henry ..
and if u think he was correct in suspending these guys .. please elaborate as to why ... and what the differences are in these suspensions and Mr. Dck ..
Thank you. Daman pointed out, and I knew this but have to admit I wasn't really considering it, that Goodell is employed at the discretion of the owners to run the NFL, if he makes a decision that decision is at least tacitly supported by the owners... In my mind I sort of had them separate but it's not that simple... hmmm have to rethink my whole opinion on suspensions and banishments...
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also do U feel Plex deserves a suspension for what he did ... as so far only the Gnats have suspended him .. please explain this one also ..
The answer to this will depend on my rethinking other things.. so I'll get back to you.
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Phil and Ty Ty will whine and moan about it .. cause Phil whines about everything and Ty Ty has defended Mr. Dck like hes his cub ... U .. i would guess would not whine .. but U are UNPREDICTABLE so I would not do that ..
now take a SHOT ... IN A HEARTBEAT ... unless of course U think i am not capable of taking a shot .. *L* ..
Let's see, how can I respond to this... I hope Vick gets his act together and becomes a productive member of society... in the event that he doesn't, is it going to hurt my feelings if he ends up living under a bridge? Not really. In fact I feel more sympathy for those who have never had any advantages and are now under a bridge when he had it ALL and is now under a bridge.... I would just have an uneasy feeling if a small group of people conspired against him doing the one (and probably only) thing he is good at in this world.....
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there are at least 100,000 guys that can start a pizza place and work hard and HAVE GREAT IDEAS like the guy that started Papa Johns compared to the guys that have the skill set to play in the nfl ...
There are what, 2000 men in the nfl? Are there 2000 super wealthy pizza shop owners? Very few ever achieve the highest levels of thier profession, football is no different. With no disrespect intended to anybody, those who lack the initiative and skill set to build and operate a big successful chain of pizza shops, make a salary managing a single store or driving the truck that delivers the ingredients.. those who lack the skill set to make it in the NFL end up doing something else or if they stay in football they start out coaching High School or coaching special teams in college and they try to get to the NFL that way... Football really isn't all that different from other vocations... everybody strives for the top, only a select few make it.
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FACT OF THE MATTER IS that most GOOD PAYING JOBS do not hire CONVICTED FELONS as a rule .. are there some exceptions .. sure there are ... but the facts are that CONVICTED FELONS are at a MAJOR DISADVANTAGE in the JOB MARKET .... PERIOD!! ..
And perhaps they should be.. but that leads to a whole different discussion on recidivism and why it is so common.. and we wonder why criminals so often resort back to crime... perhaps one of the reasons is this major disadvantage they are at when it comes to making an honest living.. But that would be a topic for a different thread...
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depends on what consequences your talking about ... and at the risk of "offending" U again by thinking for U ... I will ASSume that U mean by consequences his ability to play inthe NFL ..
I'm not offended.. I was referring to all sorts of consequences.. and yes, at the top of the list is denying him the ability to make a living doing the one thing he is good at... but that's the one I'm rethinking... so I'll get back to you. 
yebat' Putin
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when your "rethinking" your position on the Hier Rog ... U may want to take into consideration these things .. 1. he has instituded a conduct detrimental to the league policy and has enforced it through 2. suspensions .. he has set a precedence in his process/procedures in this area ... 3. U may want to look into the Jones/Johnson and Henry cases and if they served any jail time .... 4. He said before Vicks plea bargain was a done deal and no one knew what was going to happen ... that he would look at the case when Vick was done with the entire proccess ... he said he may very well suspend him when hes done with the entire proccess .. u have lots to consider ... and he has set precedence ... although I believe this is th efirst time a player was actually in jail during the season ... it will be interesting to see if he feels that his time in prison will serve as his supsension from the NFL ,, cause techinally he is not suspended fromthe NFL right now .. so he has SERVED NO NFL SANCTIONED SUSPENSION as of yet ... *LOL* ... your comparing pizza shop ownership to playing in the NFL ... thats so wrong on so many levels .. but first .. before i get into tearing apart your anologoes ... let me clarify .. as I am not sure if u understood what i meant ... there are many folks that have the brain cells and ABILITY to do what John did .. 100'S OF THOUSANDS of males and FEMALES have the CAPABILITIES to do what John did .. if they so desired they could have done it .. if they so desired .. VERY VERY FEW have the CPABALITIES to do what Vick did no matter how hard they worked ... Its night and day in that regard alone .. and DC .. when i was 9 or 10 years old none of my friends bought Pizza Shop owner cards ... not one of them aspired to be a pizza shop owner (well at least none of them admitted to it anyhow .. *L*) .. me and my buds never went to the Pizza Shop and paid to watch them needle the doe .. spin the dough .. apply the sauce or cut the mushrooms .. we did go to football games ... none of us once to the best of my knowledge ever played "pick up" pizza making .. when i went to HS there was not a Pizza making team to try out for ... we did however have a football team .. same in college ... and as far as I know colleges to do not give out PIZZA MAKING SCHOLLIE'S .. your a pretty smart fella .. so i believe u are catching my drift and i do not need anymore of my own analogies to blow yours up about how many guys play in the NFL compared to how many millionare pizza owners there are ... theres a slight discrepancy in the # of kids that aspire to do these two fine proffesions .. but just in case .. i highly doubt there has ever been a Pizza Shop where 80 - 90% of the employees are making a million dollars a year .. and i highly doubt that any pizza shop employee has ever made more in a year than his owner has ... like some NFL players have ... dude .. your comparing what an OWNER makes vs what an EMPLOYEE MAKES ... 
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when your "rethinking" your position on the Hier Rog ... U may want to take into consideration these things ..
Good suggestions, I will take them all into consideration.
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there are many folks that have the brain cells and ABILITY to do what John did .. 100'S OF THOUSANDS of males and FEMALES have the CAPABILITIES to do what John did .. if they so desired they could have done it .. if they so desired ..
So you're saying then that it is their desire to slave away for $40K a year in a dead end job as opposed to owning a pizza conglomerate worth tens of millions of dollars? If it is so damm easy to climb to the top of the business world, then why don't more people do it?
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your a pretty smart fella .. so i believe u are catching my drift and i do not need anymore of my own analogies to blow yours up about how many guys play in the NFL compared to how many millionare pizza owners there are ... theres a slight discrepancy in the # of kids that aspire to do these two fine proffesions ..
What in the wide wide world of sports does that have to do with anything? Seriously... while your analogies are fairly cute and I chuckled at some of them, what do any of them have to do with whether or not Vick deserves a chance to make a living playing football or whether he should be forced to take some "lesser" occupation? If there is a correlation, please tell me because I don't see it. I see a comical skit that has no bearing on the discussion...
I think we all agree that Vick has "the right" after serving his sentence, to earn a living... so the simple question is... why should he be prevented from earning that living playing football?
and your answer is because your high school doesn't have a pizza making team and because colleges don't give out pizza making scholarships and because they don't make pizza icon trading cards? Hopefully you understand why I'm having trouble figuring out what your points have to do with the original question...
yebat' Putin
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J/C....Wow, alot of good thoughts on the thread and alot of nonsense that I'm not surprised is coming out of some people.
Vick will be released and has paid his debt. He should be able to seek employment wherever he desires, as is a right that he should not have to give up.
Having said that, with all the issues hes had and al the negative PR he would bring, the employers also have a right not to touch him with a 10 foot pole. He is very much in the same situation in finding a job that Barry Bonds is with one exception. Bonds was an amazing player. Vick was an overhyped, terrible QB that got his hype because he could run. If owners in MLB shy away from Bonds, who was a HOF player before his legal and PR problems, how anxious are NFL owners going to be to go after a bad QB with the same PR problems and a history of legal problems?
Sorry, but the guy can't "bal". He's a very bad QB. He can't read a defense. He is terribly inaccurate. He doesn't recognize coverages. The only thing he can do is run and when he runs, he has a tendancy to put the ball on the ground. Does anyone think it's some magical coincidence that those same receivers that Falcons fans blamed for Vick's terrible play performed well with a real QB? It's not. VIck is a terrilbe QB.
Now, as for Goodell suspending Vick, it very likely will happen. Set aside the fact that Vick is scum that did terrilbe things to dogs, killing them not only for sport, but just because they weren't good at fighting or to train ther dogs. He was involved in illegal gambling. That is a very serious offense in ANY sport. I would be absolutely shocked if Goodell doesn't suspend him for being involved in illegal gambling. Even though it wasn't betting on football, the ramifications that could, and who knows, but might have, occoure(d) by being involved in illegal gambling are staggering. It could have eventually led to point shaving or throwing games. The NFL will not allow that kind of thing go without punishment.
Vck also lost around $95 million for his actions. I don't feel bad for him because he deserves what he got. Yes, they're just dogs, but what he was inovled in was sick. Killing dogs, not just for sport, with his bare hands for no other reason than they weren't good at fighting is disgusting. Having said that, if he were truly sorry (as Jules said), forgivenesss would be something he deserves. I think he's sorry he got caught, not for what he did. I also hope he learns and moves on with his life in a positive way. I would absolutely love to see him see what he did was wrong and actually become a decent person and member of society. I won't hold my breath because he hadn't learned from anything else he's done and have little faith he will now.
So, while he has the right to pursue his career, that doesn't mean it will happen.
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Sorry, but the guy can't "bal". He's a very bad QB. He can't read a defense. He is terribly inaccurate. He doesn't recognize coverages. The only thing he can do is run and when he runs, he has a tendancy to put the ball on the ground. Does anyone think it's some magical coincidence that those same receivers that ESPN blamed, therefore Falcons fans blamed for Vick's terrible play performed well with a real QB? It's not. VIck is a terrilbe QB.
Fixed.
Otherwise, I agree with everything you just said.
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Coach,, I really hate it when you hold back,, tell us how you really feel about Vick man  Actually, I remember him playing against the Browns a few years ago.. Running around like a fool in the backfield,, we either has his receivers well covered or he just couldn't find them.. don't know which.. anyway, what looked like all 11 browns were chasing him all over the backfield and finally nailed him.. Actually it was quite entertaining..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Running around like a fool in the backfield,, we either had his receivers well covered or he just couldn't find them.. don't know which..
Let me help you answer this... when is the last time you remember us having everybody covered?
yebat' Putin
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Let me help you answer this... when is the last time you remember us having everybody covered?
I knew someone would catch that  Good job!
I think I remember a thread on here (or was it the old board on the main site?) during the week leading up to that Atlanta game... Lots of folks were worried about Vick taking over and just crushing us. That didn't happen that day.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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but just in case .. i highly doubt there has ever been a Pizza Shop where 80 - 90% of the employees are making a million dollars a year .. and i highly doubt that any pizza shop employee has ever made more in a year than his owner has ... like some NFL players have ...
It sure sounds to me like you are saying "let vick get a job, just not a job where he's paid alot."
The guy got caught. He got sentenced under the laws of this land. He is currently serving that sentence. When he gets out of jail, he ought to be able to take whatever job he can get. If that's playing nfl football for millions of dollars, so be it. If it's working at a car wash making $8 an hour, so be it.
He got caught. He is serving the penalty given to him. What type of job he gets when he's out is none of your concern nor mine, and how much he makes is none of our concern, either.
It sounds to me like you're fine with him working, just not making much. The guy served his penalty. And I can't stand him as a person, and I've always felt he was so over rated as a qb that it was hilarious.....he's never made an nfl team a better team. His accuracy is suspect at best. He has a cannon of an arm, but he never knows quite where to aim it.
If he comes back to the nfl, good for him. If he doesn't, good for him. Don't hate on him cause he might make more money than you though.
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I do log on earlier, it's just that I'm not drunk enough to argue until late at night lol. I don't have to forgive him. For exactly the reasons Jules stated. She's right, he's not sorry he tortured animals. He's only sorry he got caught. If they made dog fighting legal, he'd go do it again tomorrow. I don't have to forgive people who find it highly entertaining to torture animals. I would not care if he found any other job doing any other thing. You are making it sound like either he plays in the NFL or he will be unable to find any job and will be homeless and turn criminal and go back to jail. If the rest of us can find a job in the real world, so can he. But if you want to go on with your "poor little unforgiven michael vick, he won't be able to afford his hookers or his drugs or his expensive cars if he doesn't play in the NFL, he'll turn to a life of crime and be back in the slammer" routine, then feel free. But you won't convince me to feel sorry for him.
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" Are there 2000 super wealthy pizza shop owners?"
Guess you never been to NY 
Heck in my villiage of 30,000 we have at least 20 that have been around over 10 years.
We got 3 mil living on Long Island (Nassau n Suffolk counties) at that same ratio we are at 2,000 Now add Manhatten, Queens, Brooklyn and Bronx. Every corner has a Pizzeria. Wow, I haven't even thought about it...what makes it worse is half of them Know me by name
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I do log on earlier, it's just that I'm not drunk enough to argue until late at night lol.
I don't have to forgive him. For exactly the reasons Jules stated. She's right, he's not sorry he tortured animals. He's only sorry he got caught. If they made dog fighting legal, he'd go do it again tomorrow. I don't have to forgive people who find it highly entertaining to torture animals.
I would not care if he found any other job doing any other thing. You are making it sound like either he plays in the NFL or he will be unable to find any job and will be homeless and turn criminal and go back to jail. If the rest of us can find a job in the real world, so can he. But if you want to go on with your "poor little unforgiven michael vick, he won't be able to afford his hookers or his drugs or his expensive cars if he doesn't play in the NFL, he'll turn to a life of crime and be back in the slammer" routine, then feel free. But you won't convince me to feel sorry for him.
Ahhhh....one of those drunks....I see
I am one of those who just sits back and smiles a lot and goes with the flow.
I am really not trying to change your mind because I know this is a issue of the heart more than anything else, and it is senseless to really try to change that.
At any rate.....you probably don't have to worry. At minimum I would expect Goodell to say he has to sit this year, and even if not, I think the teams know he is a hot potato at this point and will more or less impose sanction on him.
Next year, if he shows he is in shape, which he probably is since there isn't much else to do in prison other than read and workout....and MV doesn't strike me as a person who has read many books in his life, some team may give him a shot.....at which point i don't have a real problem.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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" Are there 2000 super wealthy pizza shop owners?"
Guess you never been to NY
Heck in my villiage of 30,000 we have at least 20 that have been around over 10 years.
We got 3 mil living on Long Island (Nassau n Suffolk counties) at that same ratio we are at 2,000 Now add Manhatten, Queens, Brooklyn and Bronx. Every corner has a Pizzeria. Wow, I haven't even thought about it...what makes it worse is half of them Know me by name
I don't like that flimsy NY style pizza you have to roll up if you don't want sauce all over the front of your shirt.
Don't know why I injected that in the conversation....I guess because it is about food.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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just clicking'
Setting aside the character stuff:
Whether or not Vick should be forgiven or reinstated or whatever is of no value... the ONLY thing that matters, IMO, is that there is no way in hell he should ever be in Cleveland except as a visiting member of another team.
He is a glorified running back with a big arm and nothing else. He has been out of the game 2+ years now and is too freaking old and too freaking dumb to start learning a new system, where he'll simply just always look to run first anyway.
The guy is a gimmick player, nothing more... far more flash than substance and he was the product of FAR more hype than he ever backed up on the field.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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