DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Cutler Miff Part Two

Duh duh duh dummmmmmmm ............ (cue in the ominous music)

Uh oh....looks like the media will ramp up their Quinn to Denver, Cutler to Team X and <insert junky draft picks and washed up vets> to Cleveland trade rumors. I still don't understand why we'd do that....unless we got some great picks back. Meh...

wow. very surprising, i thought for sure they'd patch things up and move on.

i really don't think we will make any type of move for him, now that the entire football world knows he's going to be dealt.

the broncos are going to make out like bandits, because there will probably be quite a bidding war.

that's why i think kokinis and mangini will stay clear, but who knows. i really wouldn't be surprised if we did in fact make that move.

I read this on another board, POST DELETED

Wow... Looks like another Bus Cook special.

It will be interesting to see where Cutler ends up and how much/little Denver gets out of the deal.

Based on that trade Cutler only equals a mid 1st.

Someone posted the following article this morning and felt the need to start a new thread and to include masked profanity so it was removed, it goes here:

Broncos will try to move unhappy Cutler

By John Clayton
ESPN.com
April 1, 2009


The Denver Broncos stopped playing games with their unhappy quarterback. Jay Cutler is available in a trade.


There is no shortage of teams interested in the 25-year-old rocket-armed quarterback whose unhappy offseason began with Mike Shanahan's firing and has haunted new coach Josh McDaniels' budding regime.

Broncos owner Pat Bowlen released a statement saying both he and McDaniels had been unable to get Cutler to call them back over the last 10 days. Bowlen said he spoke with Cutler's agent, Bus Cook, on Tuesday and came away convinced "that Jay no longer has any desire to play for the Denver Broncos."

Therefore, Bowlen said, "We will begin discussions with other teams in an effort to accommodate his request to be traded."

Cook didn't immediately return messages left by The Associated Press, and McDaniels, through a team spokesman, declined to comment.

"Jay is never going to play for that team again," a source told ESPN.com's Bill Williamson on Tuesday. "It is a trust issue. He could never trust McDaniels again. It's over."

Cutler's been unhappy ever since learning that McDaniels failed to inform him about trade talks in which the Broncos showed interest in Matt Cassel. Cassel wound up being traded by New England to Kansas City, and then Cutler asked to be traded.

Still, McDaniels had faith he could repair the strained relationship with his temperamental quarterback -- if only he could get him to call him back. On Tuesday, he became convinced that just wasn't going to happen.

When told the owner was going to try to trade his franchise quarterback, linebacker Spencer Larsen said, "It's shocking. It didn't seem like he was going anywhere. This is the worst-case scenario."

Cutler skipped McDaniels' first team meeting in mid-March and the first 2½ weeks of the Broncos' offseason conditioning program, forfeiting a $100,000 workout bonus.

Cutler is halfway through the six-year, $48 million contract he signed as the 11th overall pick out of Vanderbilt in the 2006 draft. He's 17-20 as Broncos starter, although that's misleading because of Denver's dismal defense.
Where Will He Land

ESPN.com's Bill Williamson takes a look at the likely landing spots for Jay Cutler. Blog

• Blog network: NFL Nation

In games that the Broncos have allowed 21 points or fewer, Cutler is an impressive 13-1, and that only loss was to Green Bay in 2007 when the Packers won the coin toss and Brett Favre threw an 82-yard touchdown pass on the first play of overtime.

Cutler set several franchise passing records last season, when he threw for 4,526 yards, 25 touchdowns and 18 interceptions. In his 37-game career in Denver, he's completed 62.5 percent of his passes for 9,024 yards, 54 TDs and 37 interceptions.

Cutler was upset when Shanahan was fired as coach, and even requested that members of Shanahan's offensive staff be retained, which didn't happen.

He had started to come around, meeting several times with McDaniels and expressing an eagerness to learn his intricate Patriots-style attack that will replace the West Coast system he's been running since he was a rookie.

That all changed when word leaked that McDaniels had spoken with the Patriots about Cassel.

At the NFL owners meetings in Southern California last week, McDaniels said the team was committed to Cutler, although he said no options, including trades, were being ruled out.

"I've always been optimistic," McDaniels said at the NFL meetings. "He's on our team, he's under contract, and I understand there's things we have to work toward in our relationship."

The 32-year-old McDaniels is in his first head coaching job after serving as offensive coordinator for New England, where he developed the untested Cassel into a top quarterback in 2008. He's never denied that "conversations took place" this month about acquiring Cassel, nor does he apologize for them.

"You take into consideration what anybody is trying to offer up," he said. "If the quality of the trade you feel, in the long run, improves your team, you analyze it.

"It's been made very clear to me it's my job to listen to a number of scenarios that would improve the team."

McDaniels even had fun with the feud, smiling as he posed for pictures at the NFL meetings with Cutler's No. 6 jersey when the old AFL teams showed off throwback uniforms they'll use at some point next season.

The Broncos haven't been to the playoffs since reaching the AFC title game in 2005, but the main reason was a lousy defense. McDaniels and new general manager Brian Xanders have gone about retooling the defense with a bevy of waivers and free agent signings led by that of Brian Dawkins.

With Cutler on the trading block, the Broncos are down to Chris Simms and Darrell Hackney at quarterback.

Simms, who signed a two-year, $6 million free agent deal ostensibly to serve as Cutler's backup, has thrown just two passes since undergoing emergency surgery to remove his spleen after a game in 2006. Hackney's next NFL pass will be his first.

Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

Mangini.. Please do not get involved in this... and if you do...

DON'T TRADE QUINN!!!

POST DELETED- "HEARD ON RADIO"

The Broncos call Detroit....

Come draft time.. I think Stafford becomes a Bronco... which would be his dream come true..

I'm wondering what they can even get for Cutler,,

Every team in the league knows he's not going to play for the Broncos again,, that's pretty much been made clear so they all know that Denver has to trade him.

No gamesmenship involved, he's gotta go one way or the other.

I was wondering, could they do nothing, I mean, if he doesn't show, he won't get paid and nobody can touch him.. all he can do is sit out and not get paid.. essentially, ending his career for at least the near term future. Right?

I mean, if the Broncos want to mess with him big time, then if they do nothing, he's kinda stuck.. isn't he. No recourse what so ever..

I don't know, but if that's really the case, if I'm cutler, I go in and sit down with them and say, we got off on the wrong foot, damage is done and can't be repaired, let's make a deal and get me out of here. be a man about it so to speak.

This may get interesting.. either way, IMO, Cutler is a big baby,, I don't want anything to do with him.

With Shanahan purportedly going to Dallas after this season if Phillips can't win, Jones may just try and deal Romo for Cutler now and set up the reunion of Cutler and Shanahan for next year.

Denver isn't going to do nothing....he is an asset. It would be dumb to just do nothing to mess with the guy.

Cutler isn't a baby....he just wants out. We don't know what has been said. A few weeks ago people were getting mad at Gini because Rogers was mad at him.

In Cutlers case, I doubt the Broncos lack of position is going to drive the price down since 2/3 of the league would love to have Cutler as their qb,

If Jones does that now,, he's setting Phillips up to fail and Jones doesn't strike me as a person that accepts failure even as an interim thing.. JMO however.

But in this crazy world, anything is possible I guess...

IMO, I don't see Dallas getting involved .....I can definitely see Detroit biting on this though....They have 2 1st round picks, and are in desperate need of a QB.......I wouldn't mind us making an attempt at him either....but I don't think we have enough picks to make it worth it.....I can't see trading Quinn and a 1st round......He isn't that good IMO....

Denver isn't going to do nothing....he is an asset. It would be dumb to just do nothing to mess with the guy.


I'm very curious how this will play out..someone who needs a QB is going to get him...leaving someone else and Denver needing a QB..hear that sound of a Fed-Ex box DA???

Quote:

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If the #1 goal of Mangini and Kokinis is to rebuild the Browns via the draft, IMO, the Browns trade Quinn and whatever to get Cutler, then turn around and put Cutler on the trading block

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I say we explore a 3 team trade. The donkeys are the ones who are in a bind. No reason to not try and stick it to them.

We trade Anderson and 1st round pick to Denver.

Denver trades Cutler to Detroit.

We get Denver's 1st & 2nd round and Detroit's 2nd round.


That would have Quinn as our starter. We would be picking 12th in the first round and also give us four 2nd round picks.

It's nice to dream though.

jc

laughable trade scenarios on here...get a clue: Cutler is worth at least 2 1sts and Quinn is worth a late 1st MAX and DA a 2nd MAX....that´s reality folks....2 1sts is the cheapest to get Cutler, Jets would be dumb NOT to offer 2 1sts...think about it...just for a second....

I know, but that's where the browns need to put thier sales hat on and convince the donkeys that he will be better than any other qb out there.

And therein lies the problem with coming out and saying "we've given in and will trade him." It's like going into a car dealership and telling the salesman "I have to leave here with a car." The amount that they're willing to come down was just drastically reduced.

If the Broncos proceed as if they are going to have Cutler as their starting QB and can convince the rest of the league that it's that way, the trade price is high.

When they come out and say "we've given up, we're going to trade him", a team that would have offered 2 1sts can now maybe get away with offering just one 1st, maybe throw in a 2nd.

IMO, you do what the Browns are doing. You say "he's our QB" (or in our case, we're keeping both), which keeps both QB's trade value at their highest. You have to make the other teams think they have to really give you good value in order to tear you away from that person.

We came out and said that, for example, Joe Thomas is untouchable. But, say a team out there desperately wants him. If they think he's untouchable, they're going to come to us with an absolutely ridiculous trade offer to get us to budge. That's the only way they could do it.

But, if we said "Yeah, Thomas is on the trade table", the other teams don't have to approach us with as much. That's just a basic of negotiation.

Quote:

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And therein lies the problem with coming out and saying "we've given in and will trade him." It's like going into a car dealership and telling the salesman "I have to leave here with a car." The amount that they're willing to come down was just drastically reduced.

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Yes but you forgot to add the multiple salesmen who work on commission, because you know more then one team wants Cutler, so the salesman with the best deal is gonna get the sale.

Agreed. But the "winning" salesman's price will likely be less than what it could have been.

if someone offers a "Hershel Walker" type deal for Quinn do you take it?

That only applies if the demand is low. If so, sure, the price will be discounted.

I have a feeling the demand will be such that Denver is going to get a fair price.

Minni is the place for Jay ... that makes the most sense to me .. they go from QB holding them back from glory to having a decent QB that could end up being elite if he learns how to protect the ball ..

and the Donks gethim out of the AFC ....

will be interesting to see how this play out ... hes gonna COMMAND A LOOT IN RETURN ...

I personally want nuttin to do with him .. if hes acting like this hes way to mentally fragile for me ...

and it is funny as hell seeing the menZas saying we should do it for picks cause they would help the rebuild .. were not RE-BUILDING .. that is one of the DUMBEST THINGS I HAVE EVER READ ON HERE .. u can not even make a slightly intlligent case for that being what were doing .. ASSININE does not even begin to describe how stupid that theory is ..

and i wonder what Weises MOTIVATION IS NOW for saying BQ WILL BE A STAR ..... .. I remember pre draft time everyone piled on me for saying Wies only said it to help recruiting so BQ got chosen high .. i said u KNEW NUTTING ABOUT CHARLIE and he said it cause he BELIEVED IT ...... and u WERE WRONG AS USUAL ... as he has ABSOLYELY NOTHING TO GAIN BY SAYING IT NOW ....

well .. whats his motivation now ... OTHER THAN HE BELIEVES IT????? .. can't wait to see how U all spin this one .. especially Toad and Tabber ...

I ACCEPT ALL YOUR APOLOGIES ....

One quick question diam: Is it true that Brady is inaccurate and has a noodle arm? I ask not to stir the pot, but I've read that somewhere on these boards lately.

what's the scouting report on him out of college?

If we trade Brady and Cutler goes elsewhere, who'd be our QB?

Derek?

depends on who U talk to .... *L* ... u want to see guys like Todd McShays's (who i think SUCKS .. no clue how this guy has a job much less the one he has) or Lombardi (who i respect alot ... ) who say BQ is innacurate and not going to be a good QB at all ...... or u want to go with folks that feel like i do ... its night and day in the evals .. *L* .. heres a sample of what i mean ...

Strengths:

Quinn has good mechanics and understands the game well after being tutored by Charlie Weis. He is accustomed to being in the spotlight and is a solid team leader. He has progressed well over the last two years and should continue to improve. He has adequate arm strength and can make all of the necessary throws. He has the size to play at the next level and his athleticism, while not a strong point, is acceptable.

Weaknesses:

Quinn has struggled in big games, especially if the other defense is able to pressure him. He will likely see similar pressure early in his NFL career, particularly if he is drafted by a team with an inadequate offensive line. His accuracy is spotty and at times he forces the ball in spots and turns it over. He pats the ball before he throws it, which may lead to some interceptions in the NFL. He needs to improve his pocket presence, as he often gets "happy feet" and makes unnecessary movements.

Overall:

Quinn has starred for four years at one of the most prestigious schools in the country. He has a good blend of size, intelligence, and arm strength to succeed in the NFL. He must work on handling pressure in the pocket. Quinn does not grade out as an elite prospect, with a ceiling below Russell and other recent top picks. If placed in the right system, with the right coach, he is likely to become at least an adequate quarterback.

and another .....

Brady Quinn Scouting Report

Pros: Brady Quinn has all the tutelege to become one of the better quarterbacks in the NFL in the near future. His ability to make the deep throw and pick up the blitz are major attributes that the Lions and Raiders definately need. He was sacked an insane amount of times this year but that was mostly due to the lack of a polished offensive line. His willingness to lead a team is also one of the very strong points to his game, I know we all remember the USC games in 05' and 06'. While continously getting hammered by the USC blitz, Brady kept coming back for more and trying to lead Notre Dame to victory.

Cons: Although Brady Quinn posesses many of the physical trait to excel at the next level, there are some things that he does need to work on. Quinn has a tendency to be to "pocket friendly" when he doesn't need to be. I would like to see him roll out of the pocket more often and not take as many sacks as he did in his senior year. Brady also does not need to be so erratic with his throws as was evident in the 06' loss to USC and the beating the Irish took in the Sugar Bowl. He needs to realize that game is not going to be won on the very first series of the game.

Overall: Overall, I see Brady Quinn as a sure-fire top if not number one overall pick in April's draft. Brady Quinn has the size,skill,and athletic ability to be a pro-bowler numerous times before he turns 30. With the tutelege of quartback guru Charlie Weis, Quinn has nothing to worry about except if he wants to play in Detroit or Oakland next fall.

see what I mean .. are these watching the same player .. *L* .... BQ fell victim to OVER ANALAZATION .. people just picked everything he did apart ... heres my take ... and I have Charlie Wies on my side .. and he knows alot more about QB's than dare i say even Toad and Vers ...

Smart, Accurate, Mobile QB that can make all the throws and has all the intagibles that u could ever ask for ... leadership and work ethic are top notch ... calm, cool and collected under pressure ... played best at biggest times of the game ..

the only negative I ever saw out of the kid was about every 2nd or 3rd game he'd have a series or two where he would get inncarate and throw passes high ... it must have been a mechanical thing becaue it never lasted more than a series ... only a few times did it carry over into the 2nd series ....

the kids downside in this league is ABOVE AVERAGE ... thats his downside ..

since his senior year in college ended he has not been given an oppurtinity to disprove all the doubters ... that does not make there bogus uninformed BS correct .... he will be starting this year ... and THEY WILL ALL SEE .. and i will be expecting but prolly not recieving APOLOGIES THEN ALSO ...

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Denver isn't going to do nothing....he is an asset. It would be dumb to just do nothing to mess with the guy.

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It wouldn't just be dumb, it would be idiotic to do nothing.. I'm not saying they would, I was asking if they could.. I was wondering if that's possible.

But you are correct, it would be crazy stupid dumb to waste an asset like cutler. he can bring you something.. what, I don't have a clue. But something.

Should fetch at least a couple of 2nd round picks or some combination of picks like a 1st this year and a third next.. or something.

"well .. whats his motivation now ... OTHER THAN HE BELIEVES IT????? .. can't wait to see how U all spin this one .. especially Toad and Tabber ...
I ACCEPT ALL YOUR APOLOGIES."

You can shove it where the sun don't shine...I have no clue what you're talking about. I busted your chops a lot regarding BQ being picked at #3 in 2007 and your ND bias. Don't give me no crap about being right and wrong. Considering we took the guy I wanted at #3 and he's all that...and BQ we picked up as value at #22 in the draft. You proved nothing except that Weiss truly thinks his QB will be a star someday...Thats no revelation. Guess what Saban thinks Andre Smith will be a star in the NFL...Carroll thinks Sanchez will be a star in the NFL. Nothing new and 3 years after the fact doesn't make it any more concrete or not. I never doubted that Weiss felt that to be the truth. Most coaches believe in their products that they set forth. I know for a fact I never said the words "RECRUITING" in any discussion on the subject cause I could give two dinks about ND or any other college program.

You're barking up the wrong tree here.

Outside of trying to obscurely make yourself look right and Toad n me wrong...btw Its probably Flawed cause when did Toad and me ever agree on anything...

And you got no right to J'accuse anyone of spin when the subject is Quinn... lol

My thoughts have been consistent. Why you would choose to attack me is confusing. ( I know this is where you say you never attacked me...hey anyone asking for an apology is attacking me...lol ) I've said from the get go...why the heck would we trade BQ when all report that it makes sense for Denver cause he fits their system so perfect....and the Bozo's completely ignore the fact that we are going to run a very similar system.

Just so that the Jets (or pick your team) can get their QB in Cutler...the Bronco's can get their QB in BQ...and us we are left holding ourselves and draft picks to get another HIGH INVESTED QB that hit their mark (success in the NFL) 50% of the time. Cause its too risky for the JETS to go that route or Denver...but OK for us

Thats been my position before and now that its actually a reality that Cutler is being shopped.

I have no clue why you chose to name me in some pat on the back stuff...where a lot were said. And most on the subject directed to you was in simply Busting your chops cause it was fun to do as I get the HOMER bs all the time

JMHO