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I'm with U on this one Toad ... hes just another BUM ... but seeing as how we have a bunch of BUMS for the right side .. he can jump right in and compete .. this guy is the MOST PHYSICALLY TALENTED BUM we have... he has all the physical tools .. hes just been a mental midget .. if history is an indicator .. hes going to be in GREAT SHAPE come the start of the season as he will be RUNNING PLENTY OF LAPS for all the false starts and mental mistakes he makes .. and for his size .. he is not as much of a road grader as u would think .. hes like a giant teddy bear ... witch is not good for an NFL OLman ..  considering what we currently have in the cubbard .. hes definelty worth a looksie ... there trying ... Elf ... not sure why u think he was a LT but he isn't ... I do not believe he ever played LT in the NFL .. he has been a RT his entire career ... I know thats where he played in Detroit and in Denver also ... he MAY have started a few games at LT due to the starter going down ... but thats it ... he was not aquired by the Lions so they did not have to take Thomas .. he was aquired by the Lions to play RT ... plus they needed a RB (got Bell in the trade) and needed to get rid of Bly who was unhappy and causing major problems with his mouth ...
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Big George will get a looksie to show he can at least be a backup at RT but I think he could emerge as a starter at guard.
Right now, I think LT and #1 receiver are the only two positions on the offense that are set in stone. Everything else is up for grabs. I really hope i get to make it to camp this year cause it is going to be fun.
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From what you say, he sounds exactly like LJ Shelton.
Is that a pretty fair assessment?
Also, even if he is a road grater type, wasn't he one of the reasons why Kitna got absolutely obliterated?
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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Quote:
if history is an indicator .. hes going to be in GREAT SHAPE come the start of the season as he will be RUNNING PLENTY OF LAPS for all the false starts and mental mistakes he makes ..
Mangini may have to bring in an extra intern who's sole responsibility will be to follow Foster around with a whistle and a bull-horn 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Foster should add some depth and spell the end for Sowells (finally)
I still think it will be
LT - Thomas
LG - Steinbach
C - Mack
RG - Womack
RT - Tucker
and then we have Fraleyl, St. Clair, Foster, Fraley for depth
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Quote:
Foster is a good football player and he fits perfect for the power base run offense we wish to employ. Forget about his time in Detroit. I seem to recall another guy the talking heads refered to as fat and washed up because of his time with the Lions.
Look the lions had zero communication along the line. It wasnt the players but the chemistry and coaching.
We are building a real offensive line.  btw this is what I have been wanting for a very long time, get some real beef on the line. Will be interesting to see who we keep and who we cut now.
Yes it will be interesting to see..but I can say right now..Sowells should be gone.
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Quote:
Foster should add some depth and spell the end for Sowells (finally)
I still think it will be
LT - Thomas
LG - Steinbach
C - Mack
RG - Womack
RT - Tucker
and then we have Fraleyl, St. Clair, Foster, Fraley for depth
Wow .. 2 Fraleys for depth?  I doubt that Hank makes the team as a backup player. We amost have to have backups who can play more than 1 position ..... and that's not Hank.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Did Hadnot get cut or something? What about this?
LT- Thomas
LG - Steinbach
C- Mack
RG - Hadnot
RT - Tucker
I kind of like Tucker at Guard, but w/ Hadnot there... Tucker goes to tackle.
Tucker could play Guard if Foster plays RT though...
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NO! Hadnot is a bum. If he plays, it will be an instant negative against Mangini and company. I like this:
LT: Thomas
LG: Steinbach
C: Mack
RG: Pork Chop/St. Claire
RT: Tucker
Depth: Fraley, Hank, Pork Chop/St. Claire, Foster
I'd prefer to have Tuck at guard, but I think our best option is to have him at tackle, considering our other tackle options.
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I keep seeing Pork chop. Who is that? I looked at the roster and have no clue. 
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Quote:
I keep seeing Pork chop. Who is that? I looked at the roster and have no clue.
Mr. Womack goes by that nickname.
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St. Clair has never played RG and is weak.
Why is he listed at RG?
Why is he on this team for that matter.
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Thx, it was killing me man. I can now sleep.
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Quote:
Quote:
I keep seeing Pork chop. Who is that? I looked at the roster and have no clue.
Mr. Womack goes by that nickname.
Womack has to be pork chop #2 in this case, Mr. HadNOT is the original pork chop unless I'm mistaken.
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Quote:
Quote:
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I keep seeing Pork chop. Who is that? I looked at the roster and have no clue.
Mr. Womack goes by that nickname.
Womack has to be pork chop #2 in this case, Mr. HadNOT is the original pork chop unless I'm mistaken.
you are mistaken
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I like the signing. I don't know much about him, but since a few people even considered the idea of him starting (STARTING!!!) that means he should at the very least provide some competition in training camp and some depth. If he earns a starting gig, he will have earned it and I will be among the few who buy this dude's jersey.
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Thomas Steiny Mack Womack Tucker
St,Claire Fraley Hadnot Foster
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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my bad....for some reason i thought thats where he played...
my point was that a player might not succeed at a certain position (like tackle) but might be a decent guard...
imo a tackle that has decent run blocking ability, but can't protect the edge, might do fine in the box as a guard...
a tackle that was decent at pass blocking, but poor at run blocking couldn't make that move....
i'm being overly optomistic for sure, but i always wonder about players, and if things would have been different for them, in a different scheme, system, or position...
at the end of the day, he'll compete with all the other bubble guys...but one can always dream...
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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Quote:
Thomas Steiny Mack Womack Tucker
St,Claire Fraley Hadnot Foster
That makes sense to me. It really is a versatile line with experience on the bench. That is what i like the most about these moves. The bench, whether it is St. Clair, Womack, Hadnot, or Foster have all played and started, not just a couple of games, but seasons. That experience has to make up for some short comings in their respective games. At some point the youth movement needs to begin- and it did with the drafting of Mack- but the right side still needs some help. We have the bandaids in place to get thru this season without too many problems along the way. If Tucker can stay healthy, all the better.
I don't know how many O-line guys teams usually carry, i would guess 8 or 9. If 8- Hank is on shaky ground if he can not play some guard- and i doubt he has the power to do that.
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Until he got to the NFL, Shawn Andrews had never played guard, but that worked out pretty well. If you can play tackle, you can play guard.
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Quote:
Hadnot is a bum.
Agreed ... Hadnot is a BUM!!!
Quote:
I like this:
RG: Pork Chop/St. Claire
Pork Chop and ESPECIALLY St. Claire are also BUMS .. there just BUMS of a different kind ... there both BACK UP QUALITY players at best ... BUMS ..
so why is that any better than Hadnot starting ... especially St. Clair ... have u ever actually watched this guy .. HE STINKS .. he's actually worse than Hadnot ..
IMO he very well may get cut .. he is not the "style" were looking for .. hes VERY VERY SOFT ..
Quote:
Hadnot is a bum. If he plays, it will be an instant negative against Mangini and company.
Why???? he has a choice of 3 or 4 BUMS for RG .. well other than Tucker ... so how dcan witch BUM he chooses be a negative????
the only reason your so against Hadnot is cause U ain't seen St. Clair or Womack play much .. cause there NO BETTER ... especially at RG ..
heres how it should break down ..
IF Tuck plays RG it should come down to Foster/Womack for RT .. OH GOD .. thats so bad I just VOMITED typing that ..
If Tuck plays RT (witch we do not even know if he can do anymore) ... it should come down to Hadnot/Womack for RG ...
FOSTER IS SOFT .. he is not a Gaurd .. and St. Clair is SOFTER ... IMO one of those two may very well may get cut ...
for the right side we have Tuck ... THATS IT .. the rest is CRAP ....
quite frankly if Tuck plays RT .. my money's on Hadnot the BUM for RG .. but thats like picking the toughest smurf ... no good choices but someone has to "win"
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Problem is that St. Clair can't play TACKLE EITHER! have u ever actually watched this guy?? .. HE STINKS ..
even Mr. Wipple knows this guy is SOFTER THAN CHARMAN!
Verba couldn't play LT but that didn't stop us from putting him there .. just cause someone gets put in that positon does not mean they can PLAY IT!
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I went back to the 2003 NFL scouting reports to read up on Foster. Here's what PFW had to say:
George Foster
SELECTED BY MINNESOTA , ROUND 1, PICK 20, OVERALL PICK 20
OT | (6-5, 338, 5.25) | Georgia
By Pro Football Weekly
Notes: Redshirt in 1998. Top backup in '99 (one start) and 2000. Had his right ankle scoped in August of '01 but came back to start nine of 12 games. Dislocated his right wrist in a car accident in early August '02 and had pins placed in right hand. Came back to play later in the season with big cast over his right hand and wrist, making him a one-armed player until the the cast was removed at the very end of the season. Looked out of shape when he returned to the lineup and at the Senior Bowl.
Positives: King-sized offensive lineman with a giant wingspan who improves every year. Foster plays with a wide base and can play either left or right tackle. Athletic for his size with good body control and balance when he uses proper technique. Has good, quick feet and can shuffle his feet and slide. Very strong hand punch, although he wasn't able to punch or lock out most of last year due to injury. Can get a lot better. Can play and has played both tackle slots. Moves well and is one of the most athletic guys in the country at the position.
Negatives: Missed a good part of his senior year with injury, and then he was a third swing tackle when he returned. Limited exposure in '02. Still very raw and inexperienced. Lacks consistency and technique. Can bend but rarely bends his knees and gets low. Will often play way too tall. May be a tad stiff. Does not have great lower-body explosion. Is an inconsistent player who has lapses. Not a self-starter.
Summary: A gamble-on-greatness prospect with tremendous upside, but someone who never put it together in college and must get in shape to be effective at the next level.
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Hadnot is a bigger bum than Pork Chop and St. Claire. He didn't play hard, he let guys go right by him, and he straight up sucked.
St. Claire is almost as bad as you make him out to be, but not quite. I agree that he is soft, and that he is far from a superstar, but he isn't much worst than Shaffer. With that said, I haven't watched him much, as the Bears are rarely on TV for me.
I'd prefer our line to have Pork Chop in the middle, but St. Claire could very well end up starting. Mangini and company obviously see something in him, otherwise they wouldn't have signed him.
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j/c
I have my doubts about Tucker at RT...he has lost more than just a step i think. However, at RG he is a rock.
So what to do?
I'm not an x's & o's guy by any stretch...but I think it would be better to keep the RG spot strong and keep a guy like Tucker right next to Mack.
Whichever guy wins the RT battle - or RG battle if Tucker goes to RT - will need help. If we are weak at RT we can always use a TE to help.
If we end up weak at RG...I think the problem is bigger because Mack will have to help the RG and Tucker would have to be focused on not getting beat on the edge.
So a rookie C has to think about helping the RG and the old guy at RT has to regain quickness that he never really had much of to begin with.
I don't want another year of being weak in the middle.
Lastly, I have seen a lot of talk about options at RG. I really only see Tucker, Blocknot, and Pork Chop as options.
I believe that Foster and St Claire CAN play RG...I just can't imagine them being good at it. I think they are both RTs and we go with which one we think is best.
But we must be strong up the middle.
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Here's my logic. I think the most important positions on the line, in order, are:
1. Left Tackle - Set. JT has it locked up.
2. Center - Basically Set. Mack pretty much has it locked up.
3. Right Tackle - Not quite set, but I think Tucker will end up starting there.
4. Left Guard - Basically Set. Steinbach pretty much has it locked up.
5. Right Guard - Up in the air. I think it will be Pork Chop, but who knows?
After JT, Steinbach, and Mack (yes, I think he is that good) Tucker is our best lineman. He can play tackle. Therefore, he should play the more important position in right tackle.
Would Tucker be better at guard? Yes, he would. But I think our line as a group is much better with him at tackle. I think that we need to be addressing right tackle in next year's draft. Early. I also think it is very possible that Foster could end up at right guard. Either way, I don't think him or Pork Chop are that bad.
And here's another thing, Willie: You are assuming that Mack will need help. He won't. 
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I agree with Diam on St. clair I doubt he makes the roster. He is weak at the point of attack and when you look at the guys we have and the scheme being employed, Power is key.
the kid we picked up Kurt Quarterman could be a perfect fit at RG. He is a beast of a road grader.
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Quote:
Hadnot is a bigger bum than Pork Chop and St. Claire. He didn't play hard, he let guys go right by him, and he straight up sucked.
St. Claire is almost as bad as you make him out to be, but not quite. I agree that he is soft, and that he is far from a superstar, but he isn't much worst than Shaffer. With that said, I haven't watched him much, as the Bears are rarely on TV for me.
Like I said .. U just have not seen those two play as much as hadnot and U just admitted it with Suck Clair .. I GAURATNEE U that if U did .. U would not be upset with jeannie if he chose Hadnot ..
YOUR SPLITTING HAIRS ... cause U have not seen much of them .. esspecially with St. clair ..
both these guys are CAREER BACK UPS ... Suck Clair just happend to play on a team with a worse OL than ours ... the bears OL has STUNK for the last decade ... so he got to start ....
the Bears fans who are making UNINFORMED EVALUATIONS (just like U on Suck Clair) are THRILLED to have Shaff (he did go there ... didn't he?? .. ) .. and think they JUST UPGRADED and are GIDDY that Suck Clair is gone .. why??? .. cause they have not seen enough of Shaff and figure he can't be worse ...
and I can Gaurantee U that St. clair is NOT A GAURD ... and he certainly does not fit with what Jeannie wants to do .. thats why I believe he very well may be cut ..
Quote:
Mangini and company obviously see something in him, otherwise they wouldn't have signed him.
thats such FLAWED LOGIC .... I remember folks saying that about Jason Fisk when we signed him for NT ...
I actually was thinking of this after my last post .. what Jeannie and Coke seem to be doing with the right side of the line is what they did for DB's (especially CB) when they signed Ivy and Poteat ... those guys are both HORRIBLE ... but they were BODIES WITH EXPERIENCE that played dime and 5th DB spots ... and if we were really really desperate they could play the nickle ..
well IMO they are doing the same thing with the right side of the line ... there signing guys that aren't all that and seeing who pans out .. its the throw the crap against the wall and see what sticks theory ....
I like what there doing .. but you think that Womack and Suck Clair are better than they are cause u just have not seen enough of them ..
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I have seen more of Womack, and he is better than Hadnot. St. Claire, I admit, I was going partially off of what Toad said. He said that St. Claire is better than Shaff.
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Oh and we have not seen tuck at RT for over a year .. he may still be able to play it .. especially better than the BUMS we have .. but he maybe a BUM there to ... U are ASSuming he has not lost some of his power or quickness (not that he had alot of that to begin with ... .. ) ... I am ASSuming he is a better gaurd now .. but i never thought he was even an average RT ... i have never been high on him as a tackle ..
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Deep, I agree with what you are saying here for the most part.
My only real issue is I don't see Tucker as a good RT...but I see him as a very good RG and the best one on this team. Unfortunately, he may be the best RT we have as well.
So...it appears that no matter what we do, we will have a weak spot at RG or RT.
Tucker at RG leaves us weak at RT but very tough at RG...Tucker at RT leaves us weak at RG and barely average at RT.
I don't think Mack will need help and I did not previously go into detail. Just saying that he IS a rook and his play and development with Tucker next to him would be better than with the other guys we are looking at for RG.
If we are stuck with having a weak spot, I'd rather that be on the outside (right side only) than the inside.
With Tuck at RG...Mack won't need help...Tucker won't need help...
With Tuck at RT...the RG will need help and Tucker will need help...
We can have a scary-good OL if Foster or St Claire can re-invent themselves...not that I am holding my breath.
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I don't quite remember what I said, but if it's anything similiar to what I believe, then they should be pretty close *L*
For years St. Clair was a pure-bred bum. Over the last couple, he's been trending upwards to the level of fringe-starter. Shaffer was a golden-clad bum as a left-tackle who had a decent year when moved to right-tackle. He had a flat-bad year last year.
So St. Clair was trending upwards away from pure bumdom, and Shaffer was trending dowards towards bumblosity. When push comes to shove, I believe that St. Clair is a better option, only because he's more versatile, being able to switch from guard to tackle. There's no proof that Shaffer can play guard, and in fact, I never thought he could. I also will favor the upward trending player 9 times out of 10.
One word about Tucker. I'm not at all convinced he's a right tackle anymore. He was never a technician out there, and he's lost some of his quickness over the last couple of years. It wouldn't surprise me one bit to see him moved inside and St. Clair kicked back out.
Womack is an insurance policy, and Hadnot becomes our swingman as #3 center and guard off the bench. Fraley is cheap enough that he remains on the roster.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I still think Tuck can play. To me, it's just a matter of him staying on the field. We saw what he can do last year when we played the Giants. He dominated Tuck with no help. I don't think there is any doubt that he is a better guard than tackle, but I still think he can play on the outside.
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Here's the thing: I'd rather have a week spot at guard than tackle. I'm not at all worried about Mack. I view him as a solid starter, who needs nothing from no one. We don't need to have any concerns involving him. And as I said earlier, I think tackle is a more important position than guard, so I'd rather have a good player there than at guard. The only concern is how well Tucker can do on the outside. If last year is any indication, he can be very good. He just needs to stay on the field. I'd also like to point out that tackles are almost always on an island. Very rarely do they get help form anyone. The inside is different. The guards and center are constantly helping each other out. I think that when we are playing 4-3 teams, we will see Mack helping out our right guard, whoever that may be. 3-4 teams we will have our right guard most likely helping out Mack, depending on who we are playing. For example, I think Mack can handle the nose 1-on-1 against Green Bay, Denver, and KC. Against teams like Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and San Diego, he will of course need help, as does every center in the NFL.
Basically, I think we will be better with Tucker at tackle considering our other tackle options. I also think we will be much better against the run with Tucker at tackle. To be honest, I'd like to see us give Foster a chance at guard, and it wouldn't surprise me if he ends up as our starter. He struggled against the pass rush on the outside, but that is much less of an issue on the inside. It will be interesting.
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well one thing to consider is that we don't know how our offense is gonna look yet....
i do think you are wrong about one thing....i'll bet our rt is gonna have a te next to him most of the time....which would make run blocking skill the deciding factor for the line....tuck's at one spot....next best guy at the other....
gone are the days of not having a te that can block....most of the time winslow went in motion to the outside....we're not gonna see that now imo...
that te is gonna be a huge help in blocking...
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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Quote:
there signing guys that aren't all that and seeing who pans out .. its the throw the crap against the wall and see what sticks theory ....
While I agree with this statement I think it should only apply if we actually only needed 1 guy.We still need to bring in another bonified OL starter, I just can't see us getting through a 16 game season relying on Tucker. Expecting all these (basically) under achievers we're bringing in to probably fill 2 positions on the OL I think is unrealistic.
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,622 |
I hope that someday soon we draft a quality RT. That's all this line lacks IMHO. 
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728 |
Quote:
Until he got to the NFL, Shawn Andrews had never played guard, but that worked out pretty well. If you can play tackle, you can play guard.
That is absolutely incorrect.
The only Tackles that are successful sliding to Guard are the physical ones. The ones that are above average strength wise that struggle with lateral movement. Tucker, for the last few years, fits that bill exactly.
St. Clair on the other hand is a finesse RT who has also played LT. Putting him at RG would be a failblog.org slideshow.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 |
Quote:
We still need to bring in another bonified OL starter,
I agree 100% .. hence why i think the right side will have a MINIMUM of ONE BUM ..
problem is .. today there is a serious lack of OLman league wide ... finding 5 NFL caliber OLman is not easy to do anymore ...
and if Tuck can't go .. then we need 2 more NFL caliber OLman .. we have GREAT DEPTH right now ... problem is we have at LEAST ONE MAJOR HOLE ... and if tuck can't stay healthy .. that would make TWO ..
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
I bet you St. Claire could play left guard.
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