|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 125
Practice Squad
|
OP
Practice Squad
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 125 |
Quote:
And then, if original sin is choosing to do what we want and not what God needs, then why did God give us freedom of choice? Why would he need us to succor his needs even though he created us with freedom of choice?
God is love. He created us so that we may share in that love. He gave us freedom of choice so that we may come to fully understand that love. If he just forced the knowledge into us, we would be mindless animals. With the freedom of choice comes the ability to accept love. When one chooses to accept love, then they can become one with God (ala become one with all in heaven).
That is what the stories of creation are about. God gave us free will to choose his love. We want God's love, but we can't accept it freely and completely. We keep putting our constraints on his love. The stories of creation are about our inability to let go of our love of self and accept freely and completely the great love of God.
The goal of the stories is our redemption into the body of God. The body of God is Heaven. So as the church (by church I mean ALL christian churches, people of the Jewish faith AND people of Islamic faith) is the body of christ, all the inhabitants of heaven are the body of God.
Last edited by TENNDAWG; 06/17/09 07:02 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
This isn't a thread about which QB can make it and which DE has "it" or not, so as I pose questions, don't take it how one might take the vast majority of my posts, Tenn 
So, having said that, I read what you just re-posted before. The problem is choice, because "freedom of choice" has the word "freedom" in it. As you stated earlier, sin is choosing to do what we want instead of what God wants. So if he created us with the ability to have freedom of choice, it can't be a sin to freely choose against what he wants.
In essence, that means God would be saying: "I created you and you have freedom of choice, BUT, if you don't choose what I need you to choose, you're committing a sin.
That isn't freedom to choose.
I also can't agree to the stance that he gave us freedom of choice so we wouldn't be mindless animals. Most animals react solely on intinct, but many have the ability to choose to go against instinct, hence a "freedom of choice."
Let me pose a question to you. Do you feel that man as a life-form is more important than.......say.........a marmoset or a pelican?
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 934
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 934 |
Tenn, I agree with you that if the creation account were a parable, it would not afffect the veracity of the Bible, Good point. I just meant that there are parts of the Bible that must be interpreted literally in order to continue to believe the Bible is the Word of God. The Resurrection of Jesus is one example. My other point was that there is no scientific evidence to discount or deny that the Genesis account was literal. Thank you for sharing your writing with us. I also like your emphasis on the Love of God.
God Bless
Last edited by LA Brown fan; 06/17/09 07:48 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 125
Practice Squad
|
|
OP
Practice Squad
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 125 |
Quote:
This isn't a thread about which QB can make it and which DE has "it" or not, so as I pose questions, don't take it how one might take the vast majority of my posts, Tenn
So, having said that, I read what you just re-posted before. The problem is choice, because "freedom of choice" has the word "freedom" in it. As you stated earlier, sin is choosing to do what we want instead of what God wants. So if he created us with the ability to have freedom of choice, it can't be a sin to freely choose against what he wants.
In essence, that means God would be saying: "I created you and you have freedom of choice, BUT, if you don't choose what I need you to choose, you're committing a sin.
That isn't freedom to choose.
I also can't agree to the stance that he gave us freedom of choice so we wouldn't be mindless animals. Most animals react solely on intinct, but many have the ability to choose to go against instinct, hence a "freedom of choice."
Let me pose a question to you. Do you feel that man as a life-form is more important than.......say.........a marmoset or a pelican?
It is freedom to choose between what is right and wrong. Love is doing justice. Love is being righteous as opposed to self righteous. You have the choice to choose to do what is just and righteous or to sin and be self serving and self righteous. What God needs you to do is to be just and loving to one another. The sin is in choosing to serve yourself instead of helping the rest of his creation. God gave us the ability to choose to accept his love or accept the love of ourselves.
To answer your question, no one creation is more important than another.
Last edited by TENNDAWG; 06/17/09 08:03 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Thanks for answering 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507 |
Quote:
Quote:
Let me pose a question to you. Do you feel that man as a life-form is more important than.......say.........a marmoset or a pelican?
To answer your question, no one creation is more important than another.
"27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth."
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,224
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,224 |
Quote:
Quote:
Intelligent Design scientist is an oxymoron. You can't start out with your conclusion/results and then begin testing towards it.
You start out with a hypothesis and test toward it. What is wrong with that? "Scientists" do it all the time (e.g. Mankind is causing global warming. How can we prove it?).
No, scientists don't do it all the time. Poor scientists maybe, but not all scientists. You can't point at a group of people and tell them they smell when in all reality it's just the guy behind you who forgot to put on deodorant. :P A hypothesis is based off of a series of observations and known facts. This is the difference. An IDer says, "I'm going to prove that God created the earth." The scientist says, " I'm going to find how the earth was created based on our observations." A scientist comes into it from an unbiased starting point where an IDer already has their end point in mind.
There are no sacred cows.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,224
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,224 |
Quote:
Quote:
Creation and evolution are both belief systems.
Varrying shades of grey..........
Evolution has a wealth of evidence. Creation has only a wealth of belief.
Both are belief systems, but one has much more data to support it.
Exactly. One of the things you pointed out LA, is that evolution is only a theory. The problem with that statement is that your using the wrong definition. For a better breakdown, here's one of my blog posts on the subject: The Problem is in the Definition.
The other problem is that you say the Theory of Evolution has just as much evidence for it as creationism or intelligent design, which is completely untrue. Paleonotology, genetics, developmental biology, etc. and on and on all corroborate the idea that Earth is billions of years old, and that organisms vary throughout that time period. I've said it in the other thread, please post any of the arguments against evolution and I probably know why it's wrong and how science backs up the thought. There is SO much evidence for evolution as we know it today that the statement "Evolution has as much evidence for it as creationism" is blatantly ignorant. It's just a talking point that's been passed down through the creationist movement.
There are no sacred cows.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,681
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,681 |
Quote:
Quote:
I'm Catholic. I go to church every Sunday and have a strong faith. Yet, I know very few people who literally interpret the story of creation. I definitely don't, and take the majority of the old testament with a grain of salt. I think that the old testament is similar to Jesus' parables: They are stories told to teach you something. Unfortunately, we are way too dumb to understand the meanings behind them. 
Aaaahhh, but I live in the south. In the heart of the Bible belt. There are more fundamentalist down here than you can shake a stick at.
There are more than a few who attend a Antioch Baptist Church in these parts.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 125
Practice Squad
|
|
OP
Practice Squad
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 125 |
Quote:
"27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth."
God gave us dominion over the earth, but why. To control it or to learn from it?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,224
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,224 |
Quote:
The statistical improbability of even a human eye being formed by random chance without intelligent design is staggering, mind blowing to say the least.
And yet, we see a transition in the fossil record of animals that started off without eyes, and later animals with very primitive light sensing glands, and then animals with vague simple eyes, and then finally complex eyes that we see in many animals today, across many different species, that not only "see" in the same way, but are controlled by the same gene family HAX. Without this gene working, eyes don't arise in humans, rats, mice, dogs, and even fruit flys.
Quote:
Bingo!
That's what doubters need to take a look at.
- Take conception for example. - With it, you have something so small that it can't be seen by the human eye (sperm cell) and you have something else so small that it can't be seen by the human eye (egg) - These little things are so small and minute, yet, the sperm cell has the intellect to drive itself into the egg. Then, the sperm and the egg, even though they are so tiny, have the intellect to merge with one another and grow together. - In 9 short months, you have something that was once invisible which has turned into something that can see, hear, feel, cry, move, etc. - What in the heck do doubters think drives this process from start to finish?
Do you honestly think that scientists are just "overlooking" the obvious Muni? Firstly, you can see a human egg cell with the human eye, it's just a tad smaller than a period printed in a paper-backed book. Secondly, the sperm finding the egg has nothing to with intellect (I'm not sure if you were just using personification or what, but a single cell has no intellect as we know it). Sperm randomly swim through a uterus and into both fallopian tubes. That's why millions of sperm are needed each time in order successfully fuse an egg and sperm. When the sperm finds the chemical signature of the egg, it does what the DNA in it tells it to; release an acidic compound to wear away the egg's outer covering to allow entry. Needless to say it takes thousands of sperm to get through this outer layer. Once a sperm finds it's way in, the egg releases a calcium burst and puts up a wall to bar any other sperm from fusing. So no intellect is involved outside of what the cell is programmed to do by turning on and turning off certain genes when the cell is created from precursor cells.
Quote:
Evolutionits will tell you that it took billions of years for humankind to come about. - If that's the case, then why does it only take 9 months for us to reproduce? - As we reproduce as a species, why are we so different?
I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with this comparison ... As to the differences? I can say fairly accurately that you and I have in common about 99.8% of the DNA in our cells. Our brains are programmed to recognize the most minute differences in people. What seems like vast differences to our eyes and brains are nothing when comparing similarity of genetic make-up. Take for instance my previous example of the HAX gene family that is conserved as far back as fruit fly's. This isn't the only example, the cytochrome C gene (The cytochrome gene family is responsible for the energy production in EVERY cell) is HIGHLY conserved as far back as bacteria!
There are no sacred cows.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 125
Practice Squad
|
|
OP
Practice Squad
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 125 |
Quote:
Thanks for answering
My pleasure. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 125
Practice Squad
|
|
OP
Practice Squad
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 125 |
Quote:
The scientist says, " I'm going to find how the earth was created based on our observations." A scientist comes into it from an unbiased starting point.
Here's a very important thing about science. It is a study of the methodology of God's creation of the universe. It should be used in context with the morals and theological ideals of God. With God you come up with a cure for cancer. Without God, you come up with the atomic bomb.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Intelligent Design is legal maneuvering by the church to battle Darwinism (or more specifically Natural Selection) without being shouted down in court.
Simply put, I believe that "God" created everything in existence, then set it all in motion, much like saying God created lego blocks but not the things that can be created with them.
The example I've always used is that our Universe (as opposed to other Universe's) is nothing but a very elaborate pool table: God smacked the cue-ball and the balls continue to crash into each other to this day. In fact, one of the possible outcomes of evolution are eyes in the human form.
All the building blocks of life are spread out throughout the Universe. How those blocks come into contact with each other and develop represent limitless possibilities.
I'll concede "Intelligent Design" if someone defines it as a case where God gave the Universe everything with the idea that anything can happen. However, when the arguement turns into a discussion that the plan all along was to give me a set of eyes, well, I say give me some data WITHOUT using the concepts of "faith" or "belief."
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
Here's a very important thing about science. It is a study of the methodology of God's creation of the universe. It should be used in context with the morals and theological ideals of God.
Sometimes a clump of lifeless dirt is just a clump of lifeless dirt
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 125
Practice Squad
|
|
OP
Practice Squad
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 125 |
Quote:
Aaaahhh, but I live in the south. In the heart of the Bible belt. There are more fundamentalist down here than you can shake a stick at.
There are more than a few who attend a Antioch Baptist Church in these parts.
Peen,
I hope I did not offend you. The point I am trying to make about literalism, which fundamentalists are, is that the words of the Bible become way too important. I liken it to when Jesus answered the Pharisees when they questioned his healing on the sabbath. The point that Jesus was trying to make was that the laws (in this case the stories of the Bible) are very important, but not to the extent that it hurts God's children. Do let the laws ( the stories of the Bible) stand in the way of doing what is right and just. Don't let the laws (words) become God.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
The point that Jesus was trying to make was that the laws (in this case the stories of the Bible) are very important, but not to the extent that it hurts God's children. Do let the laws ( the stories of the Bible) stand in the way of doing what is right and just. Don't let the laws (words) become God.
"Jesus was never harsh with sinners, as we all know. He was harsh with moralists and hypocrites, with those who observed the letter of the law rather than the spirit of the law." - Henry Miller
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,649
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,649 |
Quote:
the sperm finding the egg has nothing to with intellect
Quote:
When the sperm finds the chemical signature of the egg, it does what the DNA in it tells it to; release an acidic compound to wear away the egg's outer covering to allow entry.
Quote:
Once a sperm finds it's way in, the egg releases a calcium burst and puts up a wall to bar any other sperm from fusing.
Quote:
So no intellect is involved
Quote:
So no intellect is involved outside of what the cell is programmed to do by turning on and turning off certain genes when the cell is created from precursor cells.
Quote:
So no intellect is involved
Quote:
So no intellect is involved
Quote:
So no intellect is involved
I'll level with you. I don't know what God is, I don't read the bible, I don't claim a religion, I have no problem with Gay people, I hate war, I have no respect for the word "Church" and I don't mind having a woman as my boss. - I am the farthest thing from a religious person. - I hate religion.
Fact is, Scientists are brilliant people that are born with an extraordinary level of academic prowess. I am very, very, impressed with some of the concepts that scientists are able to comprehend.
However, bro, I also think that some scientists feel as if they can comprehend and explain everything, and that nothing and nobody is smarter than them. - That, my friend, is arrogance.
Some scientists are too arrogant to admit that there are some things that can't be explained via chemistry, or biology. - Kinda like something that is smaller than a "period in a paper back book" being so smart that it knows how to grow, when to grow, what to grow. It also knows how to develop a personality, feelings, tenacity, laziness, pride, etc. - It's amazing, and it's nothing that you or anybody who has ever roamed the Earth will ever be able to explain.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
However, bro, I also think that some scientists feel as if they can comprehend and explain everything, and that nothing and nobody is smarter than them. - That, my friend, is arrogance.
Those are the kind of "scientists" that would drive me into the arms of a church
However, while those kinds of people are arrogant beyond reason, there have been members of the church in our recent past that KILLED other people because they had the audasity to speak heresy against the church. 
In fact, that would STILL be the case if people throughout the world didn't wise-up to what the church was all about.
The problem today is that even though churches have been exposed as the manipulators they are and therefore can't exude the kind of power that they once did in forcing dogma onto the lives of mankind, they still have the ability to effectively brainwash patrons to the point where their theologies still resonate throughout modern societies. Simply put, they are losing a war that they can't hope to win. Ironically, the very last fallback position which represents their "circling of the wagons" simultaneously represents their greatest strength: FAITH. When push comes to shove, and nothing is left to use in their legal battles, they can still claim that it's all based on faith.
Sorry to follow this thread down a predictable path, Tenn, but it represents a very important part of your created discussion.
It always comes back to a very simple premise: Good versus Evil. Most of us are born knowing one from another, with genetic defects making up the rest. We either choose to do good, or choose to do evil, with everything else falling somewhere inbetween. Nobody can convince me that God DIDN'T set things in motion which, after billions of years, has led us to this very point in time, but to believe that God created the Universe in six days, got tired, then rested on the seventh while demanding that we all pay homage to him (or maybe not to show him up by working a seventh day when he couldn't ) by taking the last day off is beyond common sense. Why? Because God gave us common sense, afterall, and that common sense goes against much of what many churches would want us to believe within their interpretation of the bible.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 496
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 496 |
Sorry but I'm tired of the age old theories that have been handed down by your and my upbringing. If you or I was raised in the jungles of South America or Africa and never been exposed to these theories (as there have been found even in recent years) your ideas go right out the window.
The Bible was written by man! The book itself is that, just a book. It can be burned, destroyed by floods, or even put in the trash with today's newspaper. It has less power than the Constitution which have laws that we have to abide by or go to jail.
There are many ways to to twist this book around to say what you want it to. Case in fact did not the so called Messiahs like David Koresh, Jim Jones, Marshall Applewhite, and Bill Hawkins led thousands of people to do they're ugly deeds by using this very same book?
I'm not saying religion is totally bad because most people who believe are decent human beings, but the fact that this book has led to so much hardship and hatred and war in this world, I honestly believe we as human beings need to start using fact and not rely on a book that was written by ancient men.
You can say that you feel that this is what the creation was all about and it holds as much water as the original writers. You are a common man right?
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,826
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,826 |
Hey, tenn, I haven't read the whole thread, but it seems to me religion is being attacked once again. Imagine that.  Perhaps some people can't fathom that which science can't explain, and therefore they determine "it can't be". Perhaps some people don't know God like they could/should. Perhaps some don't care to, because religion would hold them accountable and they don't want that. I don't know all the answers - but I believe in God. I find it ironic that in this book "written by common men", it states specifically that some won't believe and will try to deter the believers. Funny, isn't it. God's word rings true.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 496
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 496 |
Quote:
I don't know all the answers - but I believe in God.
If it makes you feel better to believe in invisible beings then more power to ya!
Quote:
I find it ironic that in this book "written by common men", it states specifically that some won't believe and will try to deter the believers.
The same thing could be said if you were talking about UFO'S, Bigfoot, or man landing on the moon! 
Gosh, I wonder if I was going to write something I wanted to look like fact if I would make it look like if someone did not believe it that I might call them out on it?
Sounds like something Mr. Koresh might have said to his groupies.
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507 |
There is a reason it's called "faith" .......
It is faith in something beyond one's own self ...... faith in the unseen (though it is felt in the hearts and souls of those who believe) .... faith in the promises, not only written in a book, but known in the hearts of those who believe.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 496
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 496 |
Quote:
There is a reason it's called "faith" .......
It is faith in something beyond one's own self ...... faith in the unseen (though it is felt in the hearts and souls of those who believe) .... faith in the promises, not only written in a book, but known in the hearts of those who believe.
Ytown you are 100% right. As long as people understand what you just said and comprehend the meaning I have no problem with your statement!
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
I find it ironic that in this book "written by common men", it states specifically that some won't believe and will try to deter the believers.
Funny, isn't it. God's word rings true.
I could write any tripe and say 'some won't believe and will try to deter the believers'...and it would come true. That's not an eerie prophecy.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,365
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,365 |
Quote:
I could write any tripe
I don't believe you
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,201
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,201 |
1. I find it sad that so many on the religious side are more concerned about religion than spirituality. More important is how many confuse the two and believe that vast parts of their religion are part of spirituality. Religion is Man-Made beliefs. Spirituality is your God-Given relationship with God. The two ARE mutually exclusive.
2. I find it amusing that both sides argue so heavily, each claiming that there is no way that any part of the other could be right.... and they both have competing theories of everything suddenly blinking into existence from nothing, the only difference in the theories is that one was blinked in by an omnipotent being, the other blinked itself in after already being "here" and squished into a very tiny ball.
3. I also find it funny that everyone seems so bound and determined that the two theories are related and mutually exclusive and that a belief in one dictates that you cannot believe in the other.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,365
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,365 |
I find it funny that as smart as man thinks he is, he really has no clue
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,201
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,201 |
Amen to that
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 934
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 934 |
Quote- ...Religion is Man-Made beliefs. Spirituality is your God-Given relationship with God. The two ARE mutually exclusive.Quote
PPl, What if I believe that the Bible is the Word of God? If it is the word of God, then the act of believing the Bible is not part of man-made religion, but it is part of my spiritual relationship with God, because relationship is made up in part of communication. I believe the Bible is God's message to man, so the fact that I take it literally does not make me a religionist or a moralist, it makes me a man of faith.
You can say the Bible is man-made, I say it is God-Breathed. So we disagree. But no-one has the right to label literalists as unspiritual or say we worship the Bible, ( this is not only directed at you). I worship God who created everything, and revealed Himself through Jesus and the Bible, as well as through creation.
My views are different than the Pharisees, in that the Pharisees emphasized strict outward obedience to the law, and they forgot the most important commandment- Love. I believe that if we love God with all our heart, and love one another as Christ commanded, we have kept the whole commandment of God. The Bible said so, and I take this commandment literally also.
I do not make the word out to be God, I understand it as the Word of God.
Last edited by LA Brown fan; 06/18/09 01:18 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,449
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,449 |
Quote:
I cannot believe that the accounts of creation in the Bible are literal accounts because our knowledge of our planet and universe showed otherwise.
TennDawg,
Hmm, I guess you know nothing of the evolution of a solar system and subsequent life on a planet as genesis is a perfectly conscise depiction of this process. This implies that whomever wrote or provided the inspiration for Genesis knew much more than those who wrote the description!
I have read the King James version cover to cover. To me it provides many examples of situations in life we may encounter. These situations are real and timeless. Study of the bible can help you deal with these situations by drawing from the wisdom behind the story.
Take it for what it's worth...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,449
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,449 |
Quote:
Every single thing in this world evolves...your mind evolves, cities evolve, countries evolve, careers evolve, and yes, man has evolved...
Phil,
Good points! But you forgot to mention that religion evolves also. Case in point, Christ was sent to provide a new interpretation of the rigid literalist interpretation of the Pharisees...to show people that religion is living, and fluid.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
You can say the Bible is man-made, I say it is God-Breathed. So we disagree. But no-one has the right to label literalists as unspiritual or say we worship the Bible, ( this is not only directed at you). I worship God who created everything, and revealed Himself through Jesus and the Bible, as well as through creation.
Then how does the shedding of the Old Testament fit into this belief system? Do you believe that God changed it's mind?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 934
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 934 |
Jesus said, " I have not come to destroy the Law and the Prophets, ( OT ), but to fullfill them." The old testament laws and ceremonies were temporary and preparatory until Jesus came. Jesus perfect sacrifice for sin did away with the need for all other sacrifices, and all the ceromonies were types to describe the Christ to come and to prepare people for Him. Now that Jesus is come, the Law has fullfilled it's purpose, which according to Paul was to point us to Jesus and our need for Him. Now that Jesus IS come, we are able to fullfill the requirements of the Law by His Love inside of us. Like Jesus said before, the whole law of the Old Testament is fullfilled by love.
God loved us, sent His Son as a sacrifice for our sins. Our part is to trust Him, Love Him, and love one another with the Love of Christ in our hearts.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 125
Practice Squad
|
|
OP
Practice Squad
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 125 |
Quote:
Quote:
I cannot believe that the accounts of creation in the Bible are literal accounts because our knowledge of our planet and universe showed otherwise.
TennDawg,
Hmm, I guess you know nothing of the evolution of a solar system and subsequent life on a planet as genesis is a perfectly conscise depiction of this process. This implies that whomever wrote or provided the inspiration for Genesis knew much more than those who wrote the description!
I have read the King James version cover to cover. To me it provides many examples of situations in life we may encounter. These situations are real and timeless. Study of the bible can help you deal with these situations by drawing from the wisdom behind the story.
Take it for what it's worth...
I don't understand what you are implying here. Are you implying that I think the accounts of creation in the Bible are inadequate? If so then you are mistaken. I love the accounts of creation in the Bible. My point is that many people don't understand the accounts of creation in the Bible.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 125
Practice Squad
|
|
OP
Practice Squad
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 125 |
Quote:
Hey, tenn, I haven't read the whole thread, but it seems to me religion is being attacked once again. Imagine that.
It's ok. This is a great discussion of God. People who don't believe in God are the ones who most need to hear this kind of debate.
Sinning is doing what you want over what God needs you to do. People who do not believe in God have taken this to it's inevitable extreme which is they believe they are their own God. Everything rests in and of themselves.
I, myself, prefer to live in the love of God.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 934
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 934 |
Quote- People who do not believe in God have taken this to it's inevitable extreme which is they believe they are their own God. Everything rests in and of themselves. Quote
How true that is. A very fitting and profound statement.
Quote - I, myself, prefer to live in the love of God. Quote
I as well. Nothing beats knowing that not only does God love you, ( He loves everyone, even those who dont believe in Him), but to know that you are in His Grace and Favor.
Last edited by LA Brown fan; 06/18/09 08:39 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 934
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 934 |
Quote-I don't find the spontaneous creation of a fully grown human or tree to be a possible or logical proposition. QUOTE
QUOTE There's absolutely nothing in this world I've ever seen to back that theory.
Reply- We're talking about miracles here, not natural science. If someone believes in God, it's only logical to think He is capable of performing miracles.
Regarding the universe, you either believe it happened randomly, entirely by natural causes or you believe it happened supernaturally through miracles, or you believe it happened by natural causes guide by a higher power, which would still involve a supernatural being performing a miracle or miracles. If we're talking about miracles and God, anything is possible. If were talking about natural causes and randomness... Well I'll put it this way...
A well known creationist had a beautiful model of the Solar system. An evolutionist commented on how beautiful it was and who made it. The creationist smiled and said, " Why, no-one made this, it just appeared one day..."
Last edited by LA Brown fan; 06/18/09 09:23 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 934
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 934 |
Darwinistic Evolutionists, ( as opposed to theistic evolutionists, which I am neither), begin with a premise that there is no God, and set out to prove it. How can you prove that life " sprang" out of lifeless matter? Is there an experiment that has duplicated this event? Is it possible to prove scientifically that the universe was created by entirely natural causes? If so, how? I know you cannot prove God and Creation scientifically, but can you disprove the existence of God scientifically? That is why I say that creation and evolution are both belief systems.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
Regarding the universe, you either believe it happened randomly, entirely by natural causes or you believe it happened supernaturally through miracles, or you believe it happened by natural causes guide by a higher power
What if you believe it was created randomly by a higher power who doesn't watch over us, and didn't ever give our creation more thought than we give the snot we blow from our nose? 
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum CREATION
|
|
