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Django, Mangini could walk across Lake Erie to get to the stadium and you would have a problem with it... The whole team competed hard for 75 minutes from what I saw...
They aren't going to make every play. Believe it or not, the players on the other team, they get paid a lot of money to make plays too and sometimes they will be successful....
yebat' Putin
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I'm surprised at HOW different Pitts D is without Polamalu.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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pretty amazing isn't it? That's why I've been saying all along.. we need an elite playmaker like that... either at OLB or safety.
yebat' Putin
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No, we need several above average play makers, so that if that "elite" play maker gets injured, we don't fall apart. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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"if you build it,,,,, they will come"............. 
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Did Mangini run over your dog or something? 
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Did Mangini run over your dog or something?
Has anyone seen my dog ??? 
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Toad:
:The development of this team has been in question since its return in 1999. If Anderson will not develop into a player that can lead a team to a championship then what do we gain with him as the starter other than false hope and some cheap thrills.
What do we hope for his failure, so next year we draft another QB prospect?
What is the correct course of action?
So we play Anderson the remainder of this year and trade Quinn for a ham sandwich, then play Anderson next year while we develop another prospect?
I have no idea what Quinn can do after 10 quarters of NFL real game experience. He did not look good in the 10 quarters. But given "the competition" when he played a couple of series of pre-season got some snaps in practice then opened the season. Can't say he was working with a full tool box. Cribbs was the second receiver, and the running game with Jamal was next to nothing. It's not like he has been in the same system with the same offense, sat for a year, then was given the job for a year to prove what he has to offer.
At this point given all that has transpired and the way it has played out I have questions.
I think Mangini felt all along he wanted to go with Anderson. Starting Quinn was something he had to do for all the obvious reasons. But pulling Qinnn after 10 quarters after stating that once the competition was decided that would be his guy? Seems like he had an agenda all along.
Where does this leave Quinn? If I was him and his agent I would ask to be traded or cut after this year. I think his development has been mismanaged from the start or he is just plain horrible. It sure appears he has no future in Cleveland.
So where does this all lead? Anderson as noted by you is not a solution and Quinn is not worth the time to investigate. So, in order to make any progress and develop a championship team we do what? Dump both after this season and start over. Edwards will gone next year. He will not sign with this team. So next year we start Ratcliff and have a prospect from the draft in training?
Really unless we are looking at 2013 and beyond Anderson maybe are only hope for entertainment. The development of this team is a misnomer. We are the product of bad decisions over a ten year period. It astounds me how Atlanta had a coach who quit, a GM that was fired, a QB who went to prison, and no running back. They get a GM from the Patriots, hire a new coach, sign a free agent running back, draft a QB and go from winning 3 games to winning 11 in one year and now seem poised to compete for years to come.
How can we repeat that process that's what I would like to know?
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Did Mangini run over your dog or something?
Apparently not, cause if he had, dawgbone would be making fun of it.
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3) Today we saw that the receivers CAN and DID get open, and that it took a QB with enough nerve to go downfield with the ball to prove it. Case closed. It's been on the QB, not the receivers.
Not so fast my friend.... 
The only guy that I saw get open was MoMass... The only other completion we had over 15 yards was a dump off to Harrison... and how often did MoMass play in the first 3 games before garbage time?
I'm not saying in any way shape or form that playing MoMass instead of Cribbs would have solved all of the Quinns problems... but I'm also NOT ready to say that Cribbs was as open as MoMass in the first 3 games and Quinn just didn't throw him the ball.
Bingo DCDawg, I didn't see MoMass or anyone open like that in the first 3 games. They didn't even call 8 pass plays of 12-16 yrds for BQ like they did for DA, let alone by someone who runs perfect patterns. I didn't see a 120 + yrd rushing game either, not to mention pass protection which was at least 2-3 times better, it's like comparing mice to elephants.
But, the huge difference was the 239 yards of returns by CRIBBS, giving the "O" an excellent starting field position. ( like the Bengals 14 yrd line) It's much easier than starting on your own 4 yrd line, with NO running game what so ever. 
It was a much closer comparison last week, agaisnt the same "D" with the same cast and blocking ect. That's when DA did his usual thing, except he should have had 1 or 2 more picks, not to mention way better play calling, but he still lost blew it !
I believe if BQ was playing and had all that support DA got, we would have had our first "W". With 239 yds in returns and 120 yds rushing 359yds total, because of that we had a lot of 3rd downs of 2-3 yds instead of 8-9 or more. It's so much easier to start on the other teams 30 or 15 yard line on first down. They can't just sit back and t - off on the qb, like the Rats did
With the field position and such we should have won that game going away, by at least 38 - 21 or better, that's if we had a real NFL starter over center. 
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One could make the very valid argument that with Quinn in there none of that happens.
1. OC wouldn't call those plays knowing BQs limitations.
2. With Quinn D's could have 8-9 men at the LOS eliminating the run
3. This one is just iffy speculation but Cribbs doesn't play with the fire he did knowing Quinn isn't gonna do crap with the field position.
4. The D doesn't play with the intensity it does, knowing that BQ and the offense will do nothing. (IE 1st 3 games)
The card goes both ways. Not saying DA is the savior...but did you watch Quinn at all this season? There is NO way he has us in that game. None.
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According to what you just posted, the tossed BQ under the bus without even giving him a chance.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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It's amazing how some of you...even decent posters have lowered their expectations to somehow justify Mangini...wow, it was their 1st game they fought hard...what an upgrade over not showing up at all....hail Mangini  RAC's teams ALWAYS played hard....yet the mantra (rightly so) was "it's not enough that they like him and play hard...get him out"....now Mangini has +/- the same team and brought us back to being the running gag of the league...hello, McFly? We are WORSE than last years teams...by FAR...even after our "best" performance on sunday we look shittier ...but it's ok, "there's hope/develoment" or "he couldn't have done better with what he had"...that's what I hear around here for the most part...what a bunch of BS...compared to what? what ARE the standards? Fielding the most incompetent team in recent memory the first 3 games? Did Cartman drag ALL of you that much down to accept this? I mean EVERYTHING would have been an upgrade over those games...I even predicted this kind of game PREGAME...it was set up to be our "statement game" Tomlin: I know he has gambled and lost a lot...but it speaks volumes about the confidence level....coach's way always rubs off the players....we coached and played "not to loose"....even DA didn't play his game anymore late...and I don't think it's coincidence....guy just doesn't trust his players because he's paraniod and angsty...that's cheap and the wrong message I mean what did you draft Mack for? you have Thomas and Steinbach, you have signed StClair who's supposed to be a decent run blocker, signed countless blocking TEs.....you have Vickers and Cribbs...for what? Really, WHAT is all of that GOOD for, if you don't even trust your own style of play and players? Lombardi seems to be right with his assessment of Mangini: he doesn't trust ANYONE....moron preaches TEAM and he's the least team player around....bigoted, I called it just go for it on 4th&2 from their 40 in crunch time like 90% of the HC's with onions in this league do....what he does instead is like just calling and folding in poker....it's bad and unprofitable...that's what we witnessed on sunday...whoever says Mangini had no hand in that loss is just homering himself and others...big part of that loss was exactly this "style" of approaching game situations
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One could make the very valid argument that with Quinn in there none of that happens.
Based on what I saw the first 4 weeks, I'd say that is a valid argument... but
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1. OC wouldn't call those plays knowing BQs limitations.
I still don't buy this. Why in hell would they choose to start a QB if they didn't think he could complete a 20 yard pass? I still think the problem was a mental block in throwing it and not having guys as open, not an OC decision to not call it.
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2. With Quinn D's could have 8-9 men at the LOS eliminating the run
I've watched every game and aside from short yardage, I still haven't seen this happen.
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3. This one is just iffy speculation but Cribbs doesn't play with the fire he did knowing Quinn isn't gonna do crap with the field position.
We didn't do crap with the field position this week either.
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4. The D doesn't play with the intensity it does, knowing that BQ and the offense will do nothing. (IE 1st 3 games)
Possible but I would hope not.
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Not saying DA is the savior...but did you watch Quinn at all this season? There is NO way he has us in that game. None.
This is pure speculation.. but all things being equal, I could disagree... You are saying that BQ couldn't have scored 20 points in 3 1/2 quarters if he was given the ball inside their 40 twice and inside their 20 twice? On those 4 possessions, we scored 13 and gave away 7...
In 2 1/2 games, BQ got to start ONE drive beyond midfield.. we got a FG.. he got to start one other drive close to midfield... we got a FG... that's it, 2 drives beyond our own 40 in 2 1/2 games and we scored 6 points.. DA got to do it 4 times in one game and we scored 13 and gave away 7... I'm not sure I see a huge difference.
Look, one of three things is going on here.
1. DA is just so much better than BQ.
2. For some reason the rest of the team just responds to DA.
3. DA benefitted from some other things coming together against Cincy that weren't there in weeks 1-3..
My own personal opinion is that it is some combination of 2 and 3...
yebat' Putin
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I still don't buy this. Why in hell would they choose to start a QB if they didn't think he could complete a 20 yard pass? I still think the problem was a mental block in throwing it and not having guys as open, not an OC decision to not call it.
Some would say to prove what Quinn isn't.. and that DA was Gini's QB all along...I have heard this rumbling a lot before the season started..
Quinn was set up to fail..trust me some have said that.
Some would say the offense wasn't designed with BQ in mind..
Now in my years of watching the Browns I myself have noticed different schemes being run for different QB's.. and it always puzzled me ..because for the differences in the QB's battling , the offense was never tailered for the one eventually shipped out.
This is pure speculation.. but all things being equal, I could disagree... You are saying that BQ couldn't have scored 20 points in 3 1/2 quarters if he was given the ball inside their 40 twice and inside their 20 twice? On those 4 possessions, we scored 13 and gave away 7
Wonder what Quinn would have looked like against the Bengals or DA aginst the Vikes/Ratbirds?
1. DA is just so much better than BQ.
2. For some reason the rest of the team just responds to DA.
3. DA benefitted from some other things coming together against Cincy that weren't there in weeks 1-3..
Did I not mention to look for other changes besides DA starting?
Mass starting...Furrey playing..Gee now try and think if Quinn had another actual reciever to go to when he was in..however doesn't mean he would have done much different..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 10/06/09 10:59 AM.
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Look, one of three things is going on here.
1. DA is just so much better than BQ.
2. For some reason the rest of the team just responds to DA.
3. DA benefitted from some other things coming together against Cincy that weren't there in weeks 1-3..
My own personal opinion is that it is some combination of 2 and 3...
My opinion is that Quinn is having some kind of mental block. he might have always been a dink and dunk type of guy but he did throw downfield as well. He never has looked this way before. I don't buy the argument that nobody was ever open because Mangini came out and said there were open receivers.
I also doubt that anyone on the offense purposely played badly with Quinn in there. I guess an argument can be made that they feel more comfortable with DA back there and that effected their play.
I was one of the voices calling to sit Quinn. I never thought it should be done because he stinks. I think he needed to sit because he needs time to work things out.
We are going to have to get Quinn back in the game at some point later this year. Whether in mop up duty (big stretch there) or a series here and there. He needs to get a chance to see if he can get some confidence. I'm sure if Mangini gets him back in without an injury to DA people all over will be screaming for his head. There is no good outcome to the QB situation.. 
#gmstrong
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Quote:
My opinion is that Quinn is having some kind of mental block. he might have always been a dink and dunk type of guy but he did throw downfield as well.
I've an opinion that can be argued against, but based on what I've studied over the years, many QB's who go "downfield" in college don't have that same ability in the pro's because the windows to open receivers aren't there.
In college, guys are open all over the place, and for long periods of time. In the NFL, they are open far less, and when they are the windows close. In some cases, you gotta throw the ball to a covered receiver and let him make a play, such as the great TOUCH pass Anderson threw to Mass at the 1, and again on the late slant pattern.
Because Quinn isn't used to throwing into very tight windows downfield, he is afraid to do it, thus leading to your described "mental block."
The truth is that too many people want to look at the Denver game last year as proof Quinn was ready. As many of us tried to explain, the Donks defense was flat-pathetic, and they couldn't cover our guys in the short zones the entire game. So Quinn, who's accurate and comfortable throwing 10-yard routes, had a field day. The problem is that any QB in the NFL would have had a field day against that defense, but many thought it proved Quinn was ready.
Today, we see that Quinn is still a developmental QB. The game against the Bengals just proves how far away Quinn is from being an NFL starter right now. It DOESN'T prove he ISN'T a starter, but it sure as Hell debunks any beliefs that he was ready.
We gotta be honest with ourselves here folks. Anderson belongs in the NFL, but he's the king of making one or two absolutely IDIOTIC throws during a game. It's been his trademark, making him the kind of QB that can help a team, but isn't likely to be a consistent guy over the course of a year. Yes, he'll get a little better, but there isn't a "great" QB in this league that runs into sacks (like Anderson did for Thomas against the Bengals) that falls down without being hit (like he did against the Rats) and that makes very poor decisions (such as failing to read zone and throwing a pick in the end-zone). Yet despite all that, he's doing things that Quinn doesn't yet comprehend as plausible, and that's disturbing for a QB of Quinn's pedigree and so-called football smarts.
It's not panic-time with Quinn yet, but we're gettin' damned close. Anderson is going to have his up's and down's as a starter. He's never going to be consistent. I know QB's and I know Anderson, and while I know he's more early Testaverde than late Testaverde, he's the right QB for this team this season. The most we can ever hope for is "serviceable" which would be good enough to build a team around. Give Quinn a couple of more weeks on the bench, and when we finally get a win and the season is beyond lost, it'll be time for Quinn to prove that he's used his time wisely, that he's taken all the information to heart, and go out and there show he's grown. If he doesn't show anything then, well, I don't want to think about that.........
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I'm hoping it wasn't a conspiracy to set Quinn up to fail because Mangini favored DA.. if that's the case, I just hope I never have it confirmed.
My guess is that unless DA gets hurt, we have seen the last of Quinn... unless Mangini has legitimate thoughts of playing him next year, there is absolutely no sense in putting him back on the field for a series here or there or even in mop up duty and resurrecting the whole debate... (which by my calculations will only happen if we are behind, not likely we are ahead)... It's not like he's going to get enough time to increase his trade value and that would be the ONLY logical reason to put him back out there.
yebat' Putin
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I know QB's and I know Anderson,
let me see if anyone gets offended by that remark..
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I'm hoping it wasn't a conspiracy to set Quinn up to fail because Mangini favored DA.. if that's the case, I just hope I never have it confirmed.
Never. There isn't a HC in the NFL that would risk his job on something like that. The pure desire to win and succeed is just too strong. There's no need to "hope."
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My guess is that unless DA gets hurt, we have seen the last of Quinn... unless Mangini has legitimate thoughts of playing him next year, there is absolutely no sense in putting him back on the field for a series here or there or even in mop up duty and resurrecting the whole debate...
Well, the reality is that this is already a lost season. He had to start Anderson to get the team playing hard again, and to let Quinn sit and stop his head from spinning. But once we get near the end of the year, unless Anderson has played lights out game-in and game-out (which he won't) Mangini will be forced to get Quinn back in there to see if he's the real deal or not.
Benching Quinn wasn't about throwing him in the hole and burying his future. It was about putting a QB in the game who could win a game for us.
Quinn will get one more shot, and it's most likely to come towards the last four games of this year. But he damned-well better take advantage of it, because he won't get another one after that.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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He had to start Anderson to get the team playing hard again, and to let Quinn sit and stop his head from spinning. But once we get near the end of the year, unless Anderson has played lights out game-in and game-out (which he won't) Mangini will be forced to get Quinn back in there to see if he's the real deal or not.
LOL.. that was the problem with DA in 2007.. he'd play a mediocre game, then a sub-mediocre game, then just when you thought he would get yanked, he'd play a good game... I still can't help but wonder what would have happened if Quinn had gotten his chance in '07 when the offense was playing pretty well as opposed to when he got it in '08 when everybodys mind was already on golfing and half the team was hurt......
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Quinn will get one more shot, and it's most likely to come towards the last four games of this year. But he damned-well better take advantage of it, because he won't get another one after that.
I don't see a pleasant outcome to that. DA, at worst is going to look ok.. he's going to be more exciting, he's going to have his good games and bad games... Bringing Quinn in at the end could only serve to muddy it up again.. Quinn isn't going to come in the last 4 or 5 games of a failed season and light it up, it's just not going to happen.. best we could hope for is that he comes in and looks efficient, moves the chains, throws a few deep balls, maybe wins a game or two.. then what do we have? The same thing we had last year...
I really really really really really REALLY don't want both of these QBs on the roster next year.
yebat' Putin
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DA isn't the greatest option out there...
BTW...Has Man-Genious named the starter for This Week? Go Brownies!!!!
Who Let Da Dawgs Out? Woof, Woof, Woof!!!!!
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Anderson is due a $2 million dollar roster bonus while carrying a salary of $7.45 million for 2010.
I don't know how it's going to play out, but that's going to play a role in the decision-making process.
However, it's very possible both QB's will be on this roster.
Keep in mind that having both didn't hurt this team. The way Mangini handled the situation and the way Quinn played have hurt the team. The way the defense is playing has hurt the team.
You also have to consider the ramifications of drafting a #1 QB then suffering through his growing pains. Flacco and Ryan were the exceptions to the rule, not the norm. They also landed on teams with good units in place.
Then consider trying to acquire a veteran QB. Are any of the ones out there going to be as good as Anderson? Probably not. I think Campbell is going to be a little better than Anderson, but the odds of us landing him aren't good. So go after guys like Kitna, or Alex Smith, or some other stiff? No thanks.
Then you also have to consider the ramifications of just handing the job to Quinn based on what he's done so far. Same goes for Anderson.
From a fans standpoint, just sitting back and watching it from the vantage point as a pure fan, I'm with you. I HATE what having both of them back next year could mean. But from a logical standpoint, it may be the smart move. Why? Because I REALLY don't like the idea of spending another high pick on a QB while the rest of the team kinda sucks. 
I am critical of Anderson. But I also believe he's good enough to win with while we build the rest of the team. I can't say the same thing for Quinn, but it's too early to give up on him. I'd much rather acquire pieces like Mack and Mass and Robo than I would on a 1st round QB who won't help this team in 2010.
Take a gander around the league. Iffy QB's like Orton and Hill look good and are playing well because the teams around them are playing well. If keeping both of these guys next year means building up the rest of the team, hey, sign me up. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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And oh yeah............I gotta say it............
It looks like Mangini DID make a mistake with who he selected to start the season as the QB.
Coaches keep picking against Anderson, yet Anderson keeps ending up the starter.
I wonder what he could be if he got the same considerations that Frye and Quinn got...........
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I've read this argument from you before. I can't really refute it because I just don't remember how tight of coverage was played when he did go downfield. Considering most of his playing time has been in the preseason I doubt the coverage was very tight. Regardless, I just can't believe he isn't physically able to throw into coverage.I've seen enough of him to know he has the ability to make the throws. However, if he doesn't make the attempt he will be out of Cleveland. I guess your hypothesis is as good as any I've read about why he may be struggling..
#gmstrong
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Benching Quinn wasn't about throwing him in the hole and burying his future. It was about putting a QB in the game who could win a game for us.
And I'm still waiting for that W.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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as i've said, i don't believe there is a physical limitation. i believe it's a matter of confidence as well as willingness to take calculated risks. it appears that he's playing to have no ints for the season, which is impossible, so unless the receiver is blatantly open, he's less willing to try to get it in there.
my theory is he's always known what he was supposed to be able to offer the coaches that DA doesn't, primarily in ball control. if he doesn't keep the ball, he recognizes that the coaching staff may as well go with DA, and that caused him to play with less confidence and more doubt.
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not just the coaches, the fans too. imagine if we had full support for DA for a little while.
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Regardless, I just can't believe he isn't physically able to throw into coverage.
He is physically able. At least right now, he's not mentally able.
We've seen a pattern where he isn't very accurate past the intermediate stuff in the middle of the field. The rest of those are what's commonly referred to as "NFL throws." Deep outs, deep hitches, deep seams, deep ins, accurate bombs on a regular basis, etc etc. When you don't believe you can put a ball into a tight window, and when you don't believe you have enough time, and when you don't have the experience to know you can put it in there, well, you get what we've seen thus far in his career.
I don't know what makes him so inaccurate with those throws. I don't know if it can be fixed. But if it can't, he's not even in the same conversation as Anderson, and Anderson is right now a journeyman starter. That makes Quinn a backup. He isn't there yet though. It's too early to say that.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Since you said it would disasterious to think there was no conspiracy against BQ..if Gini has a open comp and BQ wins how can you fault him unless you say he should have named the starter earlier?
And here's added thought..not implying anything negative..Gini needed to look at Quinn to see what he is..he also needed to see for himself DA..
Now if he comes out and says well Quinn is starting..he has to give a reason for it..same with DA..BUT THE outcry is worse if he says I'm starting DA..
Whoa..u mean the # 1 pick is going to be pushed back without given a chance to compete?
If he names Quinn the starter..than how can he justify that without a competition?
He can't ...but like I said I heard some rumbling he liked DA...
Anyway I felt a starter should have been named way earlier..this is where the offense has suffered..with these experiments..
Fact is DA MUST not look good in practices..he must not.
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Legend
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Legend
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Coaches keep picking against Anderson, yet Anderson keeps ending up the starter.
I wonder what he could be if he got the same considerations that Frye and Quinn got...........
What considerations is he not getting? This is his third chance to prove he deserves to be the undisputed starter.. it's not the fault of Frye or Quinn that he hasn't been able to do that.... It's not like we're asking him to beat out Peyton and Eli Manning for heavens sake.
yebat' Putin
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9) Harrison looks OK as a Browns back, and his stats looked OK, but he's a complimentary player, not a starter. There are guys like him in this league who are backups, but many fans don't know the difference because he gained 100 yards. He dropped one pass, took some serious shots trying to get yards, and coughed up a fumble at a point where he had no business trying to fight for an extra yard. He's just not physical enough for that kinda game, especially here in Cleveland. Good change-of-pace guy, not a feature guy.
I agree with most everyting you said but this. I think Harrison looked pretty good and most definately better than anything else we have, so who else would you put in?
I agree with both statements, but I'll add that what we have as far as depth severely lacking so saying that Harrison is better than anything else we have really isn't saying much. I believe he will make the big play once in a blue moon, but unless the hole is huge at the goalline, he won't be able to punch it in.
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Legend
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Coaches keep picking against Anderson, yet Anderson keeps ending up the starter.
I wonder what he could be if he got the same considerations that Frye and Quinn got...........
After all your hemming and hawing, we end up here. You have stated several times that DA is what he is and most likely won't be anything more. You just called him a journeyman QB. Then you drop this little nugget. Just admit it, you're a DA guy through and through. I bet you got the white, the brown, and the orange Anderson jerseys (and I bet you got a pink one on order). And I bet you wear them to the bar on Sundays. And I bet that's what helps you pick up chics ... cause if it's the Toad-spin that's doing the trick for you ... you must be talking to some pretty dumb girls.
Let's look at the facts for a second.
*Fact: DA is not a finished product.
*Fact: Quinn is not a finished product.
*Fact: DA has shown potential with his opportunities.
*Fact: Quinn has shown little potential with his opportunities.
*Fact: We were the laughing stock of the NFL the first 3 games with Quinn at the helm.
*Fact: We fielded a competitive team for the first time this season with DA at the helm. 2 guys had career days. Defense played better than they had all season.
*Fact: DA put up some pretty good numbers in nearly a year's worth of starts. Threw more TDs than a guy named Kosar.
*Fact: Quinn has never accomplished anything of significance in the NFL.
Now, these are all facts. What does it all mean? Everyone can draw their own conclusions from it, I believe. But how people keep coming to the conclusion that we have to see what we have in Quinn but not DA is a mystery to me. The guy doesn't even have 2 full seasons of starts. Yet no one is saying he needs more time. Yet everyone is saying we have to see what we have in Quinn. Why? When you look at the facts, that makes absolutely no sense. What has Quinn done to earn that look?
I think people are just holding onto the hope that Quinn was going to be the savior, and they just don't want to let it go. I get it. Because I was one of them. But when you look at the facts and remove the opinions, the path seems rather clear to me.
The only people it doesn't seem clear to are those who have their minds made up about Anderson ... but that is nothing but opinion and speculation. Educated guesses? Sure, I can buy that. I respect some of the opinions on here ... but let's not get carried away with message board opinions. Let's deal with facts. DA has shown more in a quarter's worth of work than Quinn has shown in 5-6 games.
I can already see the rebuttals now ... "yes, DA has shown more bad in 1 quarter" ... "5-6 games is not even close to knowing what we have in Quinn" ... "what if DA can't improve, then what do we do?" ... all valid ... but when you think about those, go back and read the facts above. Neither is a finished product, but one of them has earned the right to see if he can be the guy. The other hasn't. This isn't rocket surgery ... *L* ...
Everyone ask yourselves this question. You have to start a team, you need to pick a QB to build it around. Your choices are DA or Quinn. Be honest with yourselves, who is it going to be?
I think what it might boil down to is that while many people might be right about Anderson (both short-term and long-term) in that he won't improve and 'what you see is what you get', it's beginning to look like people might have been completely wrong about Quinn.
So based on the facts as we know them, which is the lesser of the two evils? Go with the unfinished product who has shown some potential ... or go with the unfinished product who hasn't shown much at all? People are going to argue that putting it that way is short-sighted thinking, but is it really? If it was once thought that DA's ceiling was going to be Quinn's floor, I have to imagine that thought has been totally thrown out the window. We have more evidence now than at any other point to reexamine our feelings and predictions about what we thought was going to happen. I think when we take a step back and reassess, DA has far out-earned Quinn in getting his chance to prove he can be the guy.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Well put! Toad..is it true you have a DA jersey? I don't..but I seen one at the gas station being worn by a very nice looking lady, which surprised me. I thought all the women were huge Quinn fans....But I have come across two in the last week that were Blonde and smart...Things amaze me everyday.  The last QB Jersey I bought was a Couch #2 Orange Jersey...I don't even know what happened to it.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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OP
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You have stated several times that DA is what he is and most likely won't be anything more.
Wrong.
I said that he won't substantially improve.
What does that mean?
Going from a guy with a career rating in the 70's to a guy who puts up a 90 rating every year is substantial. Going from his best year where his rating was 82 to consistent years in the 90's is substantial.
Going from 82 to the high 80's is improving, but not substantial.
So pay attention to my exact words, not what you think I'm saying. Hell, you do it again in the very next sentence:
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You just called him a journeyman QB.
Wrong.....again.
I called him a journeyman starter. That's quite a bit different than calling him a journeyman quarterback.
So, to help you with your reading comprehension, I'll try again. (pstt!! Try and pay attention this time!)
Anderson isn't likely to get substantially better. I think he can improve, but I don't believe he'll ever be a guy who completes 60% of his passes for his career, and I don't think he'll ever be a guy that can take big steps between his ears at the position.
It's my opinion that the best he'll ever be is a guy that can get into the mid-to-high 80's with his rating, and will have an inconsistent streak that will keep him from being a franchise guy. Having said that, I think he's good enough to build around while we put more talent onto a talent-voided team.
So what do I mean when I question how far along Anderson could have been if he'd have received the same considerations as higher drafted players who were hand-picked by the regime? It means I wonder if he could have been further along in his development.
Gee, kinda hard to read anything into that, isn't it? Though reading into things is what people do very well around here. 
My stance is very clear. The problem is people who want my words to mean something they don't, even though the meaning is right there to be read.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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All Pro
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All Pro
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Everyone ask yourselves this question. You have to start a team, you need to pick a QB to build it around. Your choices are DA or Quinn. Be honest with yourselves, who is it going to be?
Excellent way to look at it really. I think everyone thinks that Quinn deserves more of a look because he was drafted in the first round. If I had to choose between the two QBs to build a team around it would be Anderson. I also agree that Anderson doesn't have a high ceiling but his ceiling is high enough to succeed if he has a good team around him. Going forward we need to stick with Anderson until the rest of the team is fixed and then we can look to upgrade the QB position. Otherwise the new guy is doomed to fail like all of the others that have tried.
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First, I never expected the season to go like this. Some of you did..I didn't. I thought We would show more discipline, see improvements in tackiling, Show some sighn of life and not be a bumbling mess. But it did, and it is what it is.
But I was thinking about the last game.. I thought to myself, I like what Mangini is doing. He holds everyone and I mean everyone accountable for their actions. It doesn't matter who you are. He is not afraid to admit when he makes mistakes or if he should have done something differently. He has pulled Cribbs from the starting role, Quinn from the starting role, Benched McDonald, demoted Poteat. He doesn't care what you or the Media think..he has a vision or a plan and it shows.
He is trying to find the guys that stick, that show up, and I'm willing to bet we will see alot more of that this year..including splitting carries with Jamal. You have to appreciate that about the guy. I wouldn't be surprised if Once MoMass gets established, he doesn't start bringing Robiskie along..He knows Braylons situation and if he continues to struggle... if its an ongoing thing, you might see him coming out on plays or start playing second fiddle and squeezing Robiskie in there. Don't know if he would, but I don't think anyone gets a free pass.
I don't know if you realize it, but Our D played an outstanding game...up until the very end. I looked at what Pittsburgh and GreenBay did against them and it was comparable. We stopped their running game..Benson had 40 yards until the fourth Quarter, they were making plays, they had fire, and guys were playing at a high level. It was a really good sign. They have been relying more on the run this year and we forced them to throw the ball more times than they did against Pittsburgh and Green Bay. That is saying alot because everyone loves to run on us and does. I think that's going to change. They are coming together, and as much hate as Mike Adams gets on here, the guy is always around the ball, makes good tackles, and plays hard the whole game.
DA - .Ahh.... where do I start. The guy gets very little love. But I was thinking about what he does as a QB.
-The guy can stretch a field.
-He finds the hot hand receiver.
-he will spread the ball around
-opens up the running game
-can make any throw on the field
-shown he is a leader and guys feed off him.
- has developed pre anticipation like The really good QB's possess.
-has shown major improved touch on his short throws
-Gets rid of the ball quickly and helps the offensive line.
-has the ability to get out of 3rd and longs and does so with good success
- can march a team downfield in a hurry
- Never blamed anyone for anything and didn't moan and complain about not starting.
even though it don't show in the stat column, I can see he clearly understands better now and it will show that his decision making has improved. I saw evidence when I seen him eyeing MoMass down the sideline and he checked down to Harrison...I know he wanted to go there so bad. I seen him throw it out of bounds, put it where only the receiver has to make a play in the back of the endzone.
- I will say he needs to try to use the pump fake more. With his arm, he could kill a sleeping defense.
What we have is a QB who has the makings and the skill set to be a very solid QB in this league. I can only imagine with a better D than he has had in the past, and some consistent receiver play and a steady running game. We are seeing the development of a QB and we don't even realize what we might have and some fail to recognize it anyway for some reason or another. With everyones support, and him not being afraid to make a mistake and be booed for it..if he didn't have that weighing on his mind, he could be even better with that added confidence. They should play a clip of the first three games so people don't forget what it's like to look hapless and go so many consecutive quarters without crossing the goal line, with the exception of garbage time. I am not saying he is the greatest, just that this guys positives far outweigh his negatives and his negatives are getting smaller, while his positives are growing...That is the development of a QB.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Dawg Talker
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Everyone ask yourselves this question. You have to start a team, you need to pick a QB to build it around. Your choices are DA or Quinn. Be honest with yourselves, who is it going to be?
I believe the correct question in this case would be pills or a Smith & Wesson?......
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Legend
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I've an opinion that can be argued against, but based on what I've studied over the years, many QB's who go "downfield" in college don't have that same ability in the pro's because the windows to open receivers aren't there.
In college, guys are open all over the place, and for long periods of time. In the NFL, they are open far less, and when they are the windows close. In some cases, you gotta throw the ball to a covered receiver and let him make a play, such as the great TOUCH pass Anderson threw to Mass at the 1, and again on the late slant pattern.
I agree. If you are waiting for wide open looks, you are either waiting too long to get rid of the ball or you will be waiting for something that won't happen.
Every once in a while a receiver has to act like a DB and break things up.
Just the way it is.
If I was a coach, I would make all the receivers spend time each week with the db coach. Not a great deal of time but enough to get then accustomed to stripping the ball, blocking hands and arms etc.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
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Everyone ask yourselves this question. You have to start a team, you need to pick a QB to build it around. Your choices are DA or Quinn. Be honest with yourselves, who is it going to be?
I believe the correct question in this case would be pills or a Smith & Wesson?......
#gmstrong
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