Quote: What has killed more people: the regular flu, or the h1n1 flu?
First, the "regular flu" is usually H1N1 too, so keep that in mind. The "regular flu" definitely has a higher mortality, I think the numbers are regular flu: 88/yr Swine: 48/yr in the USA. However, the "regular flu" is also very different than what it was a decade ago due to mutations in its genetic makeup. So basically we see a new "regular flu" yearly so that even if we had it in the past, our bodies do not show a memory response to it.
Who's freaking out? I'm merely pointing out the misinformation that was being pandered as truth. Vaccines prevent disease related deaths, plain and simple. If those 30,000 people each year were treated, they would still be alive. Decreasing the number of preventable deaths is something noble to strive for IMO.
Who's freaking out? Have you watched the news? I find it hilarious watching these people try to act like no one has anything to be weary about with a barely tested vaccine, but yet are freaked out themselves by an outbreak of the flu...
No, sorry, I don't have a TV. When I watch sports I usually go to the bar.
Quote: to be weary about with a barely tested vaccine,
Did ... did you read my previous post where I addressed that? It's tested as thoroughly as any other flu vaccine made in the past 20 years, and is made the exact same way as previous vaccines. I'll ask again, why does it need more testing?
Quote: They also kill people. Look at the young girls getting the cervical cancer vaccination. No, not all, but many have died from it.
You mean the HPV vaccine? Yes, I think 11 young women have died from it, all relating back to a blood clotting disorder. Some may experience side-effects, but the majority do not. That, however, has nothing to do with their effectiveness. My quote still stands, vaccines prevent diseases.
Also, you say, "No, not all, but many have died from it" which isn't doing a comparison of "the percentage of deaths to successful immunity" justice. The vast majority of those vaccinated show no complications what-so-ever, and that goes for all vaccines.
Quote: Who's freaking out? Have you watched the news? I find it hilarious watching these people try to act like no one has anything to be weary about with a barely tested vaccine, but yet are freaked out themselves by an outbreak of the flu...
Depends on how you look at it.
If you are a healthy adult out of the higher risk groups, I probably wouldn't get it.
But young children and teens are said to be getting it worse than others. They are saying the mortality rate is highest in that group, which is what I meant to say in the previous post. The mortality rate seems to be high in that risk group.
So, with me working in a hospital and having a young child, I will vaccinate myself to protect my child.
If you are a 50 year old who doesn't have kids at home and don't work in healthcare or somewhere where you'd be exposed to it more, I probably wouldn't worry about it, either.
Quote: An experimental vaccine for something that isn't even killing people as much as the regular flu... I'll pass.
The death rate for the swine flu is higher than that of the seasonal flu. Not sure where you thought you heard that.
Interesting, guess I had my numbers wrong also. Thanks for the heads up
Quote: Swine Flu Death Among Children Rise
Even as the distribution of swine flu vaccine is ongoing across America, the number of deaths among young people due to swine flu continues to rise. This will probably give parents more reason to have their children as well as themselves vaccinated, or lead some of those who have initially elected to forego vaccination to have a change of heart.
The spike in the number of deaths has caused alarm since the rate is unusual, even for the flu season. In the past week alone, 19 deaths among children and teenagers were reported; this is said to be the highest pediatric death rate in a single week since the start of the swine flu pandemic last spring. Last week’s count has increased the total number of deaths of those under the age of 18 to 76 for this year, a high number compared to the 46 to 88 deaths due to seasonal flu per year among children over the past four years.
In total, more than 3,800 Americans have succumbed to complications associated with the flu, more often the H1N1 virus. This count includes at least 28 pregnant women.
While the government has already purchased 250 million doses of swine flu vaccine for distribution across the country, it is reportedly ready to purchase even more doses should more people choose to have themselves and their families vaccinated. According to recent surveys, only 40% of Americans intend to get the vaccine; vaccination is completely voluntary for most people.
While the illness brought about by the virus is essentially considered as mild, with some people recovering from it without the benefit of medication, there are those who can get seriously ill when struck with the virus. And the absence of pre-existing conditions such as asthma does not necessarily ensure a speedy recovery; some of the children who have died from swine flu reportedly used to be healthy prior to coming down with the flu.
Just found this in response to the article posted by superbowldogg stating that squalene adjuvants are the cause of gulf war syndrome. I suggest reading it from the source as it thoroughly goes about expressing some of the common misconceptions in this thread that I haven't gotten to, but here's the pertinent info.
Quote: Fear Factor: Squalene Edition After his incredibly callous argument to allow children to contract influenza (I’m paraphrasing for brevity), Dr. Mercola then employs the toxin gambit to assert that the H1N1 vaccine is unsafe. Here I have to give him credit for promoting yet another molecule to the anti-vaccination list of Chemicals of Omnipotent Toxicity™: Squalene.
The U.S. government has contracts with several drug companies to develop and produce swine flu vaccines. At least two of those companies, Novartis and GlaxoSmithKline, are using an adjuvant in their H1N1 vaccine.
Half-truths are the most dangerous ones aren’t they? Novartis and GSK are indeed developing H1N1 flu vaccines with adjuvants containing squalene. In fact, they’ve been doing it for more than a decade – but I don’t want to give away the punch line. Let’s examine the rest of Dr. Mercola’s claims first.
Quote: Adjuvants cause your immune system to overreact to the introduction of the organism you’re being vaccinated against.
No. Adjuvants are used to get your immune system to recognize and react to antigens that do not trigger a sufficient response on their own. Sometimes this is because the antigens are poorly reactive without being attached to a virus or bacteria like they usually are. Other times it is because we use such a minuscule amount of antigen compared to what occurs during an infection that it’s invisible to the immune system. For example, vaccination against Hepatitis B exposes you to a total 30 mcg of antigen compared to 1100 mcg/hour produced during an infection6. Regardless, adjuvants take your immune response from next to nothing to just enough to induce immunity.
Quote: Less vaccine required per person means more individual doses available for mass vaccination campaigns. Coincidentally, this is exactly the goal of government and the pharmaceutical companies who stand to make millions from their vaccines.
Dr. Mercola’s on to us! Maybe he saw the latest batch of H1N1 vaccine delivered in one of our unmarked black helicopters. We should really be more careful.
It is no coincidence that we are trying to make hundreds of millions of vaccines at a limited cost. It is fully intentional. The world is faced with the need to produce hundreds of millions of doses of influenza vaccine with a limited amount of antigen and a limited amount of time. Failure to meet the demand will result in rationing of vaccine supplies and will leave people vulnerable who desire and deserve to be protected. Again, we would have needless suffering and lives lost. If the use of an adjuvant can help meet this demand, reduce costs, and save lives, then yes, it should be strongly considered.
Before I leave this comment, I’ll take the opportunity to point out that pharmaceutical companies, doctors, and hospitals stand to make a lot more money from an uncontrolled pandemic than from its prevention. The money spent on antivirals, antibiotics, sedation and pain medications, physician and hospital billing for the 200,000 people hospitalized in the US during a normal flu season would compensate them far better than profits from vaccine sales. It’s almost as though, against our financial interest, all of our efforts are designed to keep people from getting sick…
Quote: Your immune system recognizes squalene as an oil molecule native to your body. It is found throughout your nervous system and brain. In fact, you can consume squalene in olive oil and not only will your immune system recognize it, you will also reap the benefits of its antioxidant properties. The difference between “good” and “bad” squalene is the route by which it enters your body. Injection is an abnormal route of entry which incites your immune system to attack all the squalene in your body, not just the vaccine adjuvant.
Your immune system will attempt to destroy the molecule wherever it finds it, including in places where it occurs naturally, and where it is vital to the health of your nervous system.
Gulf War veterans with Gulf War Syndrome (GWS) received anthrax vaccines which contained squalene. MF59 (the Novartis squalene adjuvant) was an unapproved ingredient in experimental anthrax vaccines and has since been linked to the devastating autoimmune diseases suffered by countless Gulf War vets.
There are several points that could be addressed in this section, including anti-oxidant abuse, the childish (and incorrect) description of “good” and “bad” squalene, and the evidence refuting the claim anthrax vaccine given to Gulf War vets contained squalene, much less that it is the cause of Gulf War Syndrome (GWS). However, the main claim Dr. Mercola makes here is that squalene, when injected, will trigger an immunologic response and that these squalene-specific antibodies will then cause untold havoc in your body. That’s a testable hypothesis, and don’t you know scientists just love to test hypotheses?
To support his assertion he cites a small cohort study from 2000 that reported anti-squalene antibodies in veterans afflicted by GWS. Case closed, right? Not so much. A larger and better-designed study found no correlation between the presence of squalene antibodies and symptoms of Gulf War Syndrome. More important regarding vaccine safety, a subsequent study using more sensitive and accurate methods than those used in the study by Asa established that anti-squalene antibodies are present in a large percentage of adults regardless of exposure to squalene from vaccines, and are unchanged by subsequent exposure to squalene containing adjuvants.
In other words, adjuvants containing squalene don’t induce an immune response to squalene. No antibodies are created to cause whatever autoimmune phenomena Dr. Mercola cares to postulate, including GWS. His hypothesis fails.
Quote: There is virtually no science to support the safety of vaccine injections on your long-term health or the health of your children. Follow-up studies last on average about two weeks, and look only for glaring injuries and illnesses.
This is simply untrue. Post-licensure surveillance for vaccine safety is among the most extensive in medicine. Squalene-containing vaccines are no exception. As of 2009, over 40 million people have been given squalene containing influenza vaccines in Europe. The incidence of serious adverse events so far reported, 1.4/100,000 doses administered, is at the baseline of the general population with no exposure to the vaccine.
As far as long-term follow-up, squalene has been studied as part of influenza vaccines in over 30 phase 1-4 trials, 13 of which had 4-6 month follow-up, and included over 14,000 people, and the current influenza vaccines in development are subject to clinical trials with a 6-12 month follow up schedule.
Frist, a medical doctor and congressman, has the fact-backed idea Maher, although a staunch atheist, is extremely against western medicine including vaccines.
Quote: Decreasing the number of preventable deaths is something noble to strive for IMO.
The biggest thing is preventing the spread.
Even if you have no worry about contracting it yourself, I admire those who do it in order to prevent the spread to family, friends and co-workers if they are exposed to it. People always think about themselves and not the next person.
My doctor basically told me that I'm young enough that they just treat it like a regular flu, and to just rest, drink plenty of fluids and take tylenol regularly.
I know a few people at work with kids having the H1N1.
And with my kid being in daycare and under 2....it's really scary. Even if I could find a doctor that has the vaccine to give, she's not old enough to receive it (she turns 2 at the end of Nov).
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
Even if you don't care or think you're going to contract it, you're helping prevent the spread to others- especially these kids who are hit hard with it.
Yeah. Was told basically that since I'm not in the "risk group" that it's just treated like the regular flu. Spent two days in bed, taking Tylenol every 4 hours.
I have no fever, no chills, or anything like that now (but man, the first two days were absolutely miserable). Now, I'm just real congested (I feel like my head is going to explode lol), so they put me on anti-biotics to get rid of the congestion.
I'll be returning to work tomorrow. So, luckily, I didn't have a bad case of it that causes hospitalization or ER visits or anything like that. But, let me tell you, it ain't no joke. You will spend at least two days without geting out of bed.
Quote: I have a daughter at college, so I'm somewhat concerned too. And they say that so far, it has been the most lethal in teenagers.
I've heard the same about it being most lethel in teenagers, but it just doesn't make sense. I wonder if it has anything to do with teenagers refusing to slow down long enough to get fully recovered? I don't know, it just seems odd that teenagers are suffering the worst.
Two confirmed cases at my sons preschool... got the call last night. Woke up this morning and my son (3 yr old) has a really scratchy voice and the back of his throat has like white spots on it. Though he says it doesn't hurt... Taken him to see the doc at 1pm today. Hopefully its just strep or something normal... and not the pig flu.
Thing is speading like wildfire here in Erie the past couple days... only a matter of time I guess. Here's to kicking some swine a#^...
"I'm a mog. Half man, half dog. I'm my own best friend."
My 12yo had a fever of 103.0 this morning. Called the doc for an appointment, and he said take him right to the hospital. No GI symptoms, just a fever and congestion. Only 13 kids out of 36 on his football team showed up for practice yesterday....so there's definitely something in the air.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
Our family had something like that last week... just fever, chills, weakness, and congestion. Only lasts like a day. But yeah 103 is high.. Kids can get very high temps and still act fairly decent. Me or you with a temp of 104 would probably pass out.
Good luck at the docs... hopefully it's just whatever we had going on here last week. My buddies daughter got it too and he actually took her in with a temp of 104.6... the ER doc here in Erie said it's a viral bug that has been going around... he had 65 kids come in that day and 17 of them had temps over or at 104.
"I'm a mog. Half man, half dog. I'm my own best friend."
Quote: What has killed more people: the regular flu, or the h1n1 flu?
Right now - Seasonal Flu (regular). Seasonal will kill around 36,000 people annually. I work for a vaccine manufacturer (won't say which one) and I can tell you this.. We are EXTREMELY regulated and could not "rush" a vaccine to market.. It is your choice to get the vaccine or not, it is up to you. I would ask you all one thing.. Please get your information from "credible" sources.. Here are a couple:
I've heard the same about it being most lethel in teenagers, but it just doesn't make sense. I wonder if it has anything to do with teenagers refusing to slow down long enough to get fully recovered? I don't know, it just seems odd that teenagers are suffering the worst.
I haven't heard that about the current swine flu...although it was originally feared to be true when swine flu first erupted in mexico.
Epidemic flus are usually MOST lethal in young adults. The reason for this is that death actually comes from an immune overreaction to the virus, rather than from effects of the virus itself. Thus the people with the healthiest immune systems, are ironically the most vunerable.
Usually, when your body encounters an infection, it releases a protein called a cytokine, which signals to nearby cells that an infection is present, and instructs the cells to:
1.) produce antibodies to fight the infection 2.) release more cytokines to alert other cells
In epidemic flus, the second reaction goes out of control and becomes lethal. Your body usually has negative feedback cycles, which prevent your body from producing too many cytokines, but those become overwhelmed for very virulent infections, and your body continues to produce more and more cytokines at a faster and faster rate.
This is called a cytokine storm, caught up in producing cytokines, your cells can no longer continue with the normal functions that they need to do. Death usually occurs via suffocation, when fluids and immune cells build up in the lungs.
"When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God." Leviticus 19:33-34
It's official, my son's got it. We're keeping the fever in check (between 100 and 102) with Tylenol q4 around the clock. He can't keep the Tamiflu down though. No GI symptoms, just coughing and congestion. He's not allowed to go back to school until he has no fever for 48hrs with no Tylenol.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
Quote: It's official, my son's got it. We're keeping the fever in check (between 100 and 102) with Tylenol q4 around the clock. He can't keep the Tamiflu down though. No GI symptoms, just coughing and congestion. He's not allowed to go back to school until he has no fever for 48hrs with no Tylenol.
Hmm... wonder if then we already had it... cause that sounds exactly like what every member in my house had last week except my wife. They say some people might not even feel the difference between a regular flu and the swine flu. That'd be sweet if we already built up our immunities... but I doubt it.
"I'm a mog. Half man, half dog. I'm my own best friend."
Well, a week after visiting my doc for a physical, what do you think I come down with.. you guess it,, The Flu.. Not the H1N1 variety,, just your basic flu..
Sure wish I'd have gotten the regular flu shot now.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
You could well have. Some adults that test positive are just having cold like symptoms with a slight fever. But they're going to work and to the stores and spreading the germs.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
"This is called a cytokine storm, caught up in producing cytokines, your cells can no longer continue with the normal functions that they need to do. Death usually occurs via suffocation, when fluids and immune cells build up in the lungs."
that worries me in that it strikes the healthiest people.
i was fine until sat. 10/17...i developed chest congestion and phlegm down my throat. i do not have a headache or runny nose or fever, although I had slight chills on Monday evening. I haven't been sick for 2 years.
I went to the Minute Clinic at CVS today and they said it's just a virus. good news--i didn't have to see the doctor--but bad news, i didn't get a z-pak. I wasn't sure if it was allergies, the flu or bronchitis.
i can live with it, but a lot of phlegm is going down my throat and it's hard sleeping. that being said, i can go to work and i'm not puking.
i don't want to have to go to a real doctor unless it's like this or worse a week from now.
Interesting. I heard on the radio today, on the Glenn Beck show, that Louis Farrakhan spoke for 3 hours on sunday, somewhere, and mentioned that the H1N1 flu vaccine was actually being used to give people a disease so that it LOOKED like they died from the flu.......and yes, he mentioned that it was an effort to kill of black people.
As I searched for an article about it, lo and behold, here's what I got: "This article is no longer available". Weird, isn't it?
Did ... did you read my previous post where I addressed that? It's tested as thoroughly as any other flu vaccine made in the past 20 years, and is made the exact same way as previous vaccines. I'll ask again, why does it need more testing?
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