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I didn't say he'd be the starting QB.
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Quote:
You like Tebow over....
Clausen, Locker, McCoy, Bradford, Snead, and Pike?
You might watch a lot of college football, but apparently don't pay much attention to how their game translates to the NFL.
Being a great college QB (Like Tebow) doesn't mean you will be a great NFL QB.
Just ask, Tim Couch, Andre Ware, Timmy Chang, Kliff Kingsbury, Colt Brennan, David Carr, etc.
Some interesting discussion...I only copied the qb talk though it goes in to much more depth...good site IMO.
http://football.realgm.com/src_feature/332/20091001/scouting_round_table_discussion_pt_i/
By Jeff Risdon
I recently had the opportunity to sit down with two NFL scouts for a nice conversation regarding a wide range of prospects and topics. One scout is a former NFL player currently employed by an AFC West team as a regional scout. The other is a longtime scout for a NFC South team, who frequent readers will recognize as someone I’ve interviewed in the past. The actual conversation went well beyond what is included here, and I have arranged to speak with both again before the end of the Bowl season. Some highlights:
Jeff Risdon: Let’s jump right in with the quarterbacks. I know some are underclassmen, but give me your order on: Tim Tebow, Sam Bradford, Colt McCoy, and Jevan Snead.
AFC West Scout: McCoy is the easy #1 for me. I’d put Tebow next, then Snead. I’m not seeing a lot of NFL qualities out of Sam Bradford. He’s real accurate but his fastball isn’t fast, and he really struggles when you get pressure on him. He’s not going to get all that time at the next level. And you look at how his backup has done, it sort of takes off the buzz.
NFC South Scout: I like Snead because he of what he’s done in Ole Miss’ offense. The kid has made NFL throws from NFL formations. He needs some work... I would put McCoy next. I like his mobility and his awareness. I agree with (AFC West Scout, hereafter AW) about Bradford, the arm just isn’t enough. He’s got some Chad Pennington to him, but Chad was always the smartest cookie in the box. I don’t get that vibe from (Bradford). And you know, we’ve talked about the Tebow kid before. He’s a NFL fullback. I say that ‘til I’m blue in the face, but there are people I know on our staff that think he’s the best player in the next draft. It won’t be my (butt) that goes down with him. Great kid but he ain’t no NFL quarterback.
JR: Just so I’m straight, neither of you believe Sam Bradford is worth a high pick. Where would you slot him?
AW: I like him in the compensatory picks after the third round.
NS: You know he ain’t gonna last past 15 (#15 overall). Teams see that high profile QB and they can’t help themselves. Look at what Tampa did with that Freeman kid (Josh, Kansas State QB taken in the first round). That kid had 4th round written all over him and they took him, what, 20 (overall)?
JR: Does Bradford’s shoulder injury have anything to do with his falling stock?
AW: Some, yeah. He doesn’t have a rifle to begin with, so he needs to show he can make the longer throws. He’s got a lot of things that you want to see...the accuracy stands out. Maybe he’s the next Drew Brees, but I don’t see it.
JR: Oklahoma products haven’t exactly translated real well to the NFL. How much does that factor?
NS: (Bradford) ain’t no wide receiver. Those are the kids who can’t cut it.
AW: I know some people worry about that, but it doesn’t bother me.
JR: Any others that stand out worth mentioning? Maybe Dan Lefevour? Tim Hiller? Tony Pike?
NS: Pass on Lefevour. He can go back to Canada with that softball. Tough kid but he puts too much air under the ball, even on short stuff. Pike’s got a shot if his shoulder stays good. He could make a nice backup if he doesn’t blow up his shoulder throwing that three quarters crap. I haven’t seen enough of the Hiller kid to comment.
AW: You forgot Jake Locker up in Washington. He’s got some Matt Hasselbeck to him. They brought him in a real coach and he is just, wow, really taking off. Hiller is the best of those guys you brought up. Live arm, good feel for the game, nice touch. He’s got some Drew Bledsoe to him. Can’t move much but he can really sling it, and he’s got that kind of demeanor. Watch him take off after the season, after the Senior Bowl and those workouts. He could be this year’s Joe Flacco. I’m with (NS) on Lefevour, sorry Jeff, I know you like him. I know you see some Vince Young, but I see Bruce Gradkowski. It’s too bad because we’ve all seen him zip it, but the kid just doesn’t let it fly in games.
JR: How much did Locker help himself with the USC game?
AW: I’ll tell you what I took from that game. Jake Locker is a leader and a fighter. His intangibles are just through the roof. All that losing and he stayed positive and kept working his a** off.
NS: (All he has been through at Washington) has to make him look real good to a bad team. I know a guy who compares him to John Elway when he was back at Stanford and they were terrible. They want it more when they come from lesser programs, like it ain’t been easy for ‘em and they, you know, they know how to work.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Now that John David Booty has been released from Minnesota's practice Squad, I'd consider bringing him in to see what he can do. Can't be much worse than what we have...
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Quote:
I didn't say he'd be the starting QB.
Neither did I.
But how can you deny the redzone threat he brings?
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Must be an old list
Ben signed an 8 year extension in 08.....he is signed through 2016.
HACK
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I with Peen on this one .. Are needs are far to great to go QB. in a top rounds in the next draft .. Having said that I would love to see Tebow in a browns uniform .. I predict he is going to surprise a bunch of folks in the NFL...
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I want no part of Mcoy/Tebow..
I'd take Tebow in a heartbeat!! Not as a QB though. That guy is a Football Player. And some creative coordinator will make him a TE or Wing Back and will find ways to get him the football.
The Browns need players with his passion and work ethic...
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The Browns don't have time for another gimmicky player..they need impact players..they don't run a offense set up for that ..and really shouldn't be wasting their time experimenting with something like that.
Let some other coach try to fit Elbow into some tricky scheme.
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Stay with what we have or bring in a FA, but don't draft qb this year...put some players in place first
Unfortunately this has been the trend for the past few years. I say stick with DA and put some talent around him.
Also HELL NO to Tebow or Mccoy!
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Quote:
To help with this, here is a list of prospective 2010 Free Agent QB's.
Obviously there are some that will never make it to Free Agency, but the list is what it is:
http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?y=2010
Pos Player Name FA Status Previous Team Current Team
QB Charlie Batch UFA Pittsburgh Steelers Free Agent
QB Kyle Boller UFA St. Louis Rams Free Agent
QB Mark Brunell UFA New Orleans Saints Free Agent
QB Jason Campbell UFA Washington Redskins Free Agent
QB Kellen Clemens UFA New York Jets Free Agent
QB Brodie Croyle UFA Kansas City Chiefs Free Agent
QB Jake Delhomme UFA Carolina Panthers Free Agent
QB Tarvaris Jackson UFA Minnesota Vikings Free Agent
QB Jon Kitna UFA Dallas Cowboys Free Agent
QB Eli Manning UFA New York Giants Free Agent
QB Josh McCown UFA Carolina Panthers Free Agent
QB Matt Moore RFA Carolina Panthers Free Agent
QB Kyle Orton RFA Denver Broncos Free Agent
QB Chris Redman UFA Atlanta Falcons Free Agent
QB Ben Roethlisberger UFA Pittsburgh Steelers Free Agent
QB Sage Rosenfels UFA Minnesota Vikings Free Agent
QB D.J. Shockley UFA Atlanta Falcons Free Agent
QB Troy Smith RFA Baltimore Ravens Free Agent
QB Brian St. Pierre UFA Arizona Cardinals Free Agent
QB Charlie Whitehurst UFA San Diego Chargers Free Agent
Jason Campbell, Jake Delhomme & Mark Brunell are the only names that jump out at me. There is no way that Manning or Rothlisberger enter free agency, and it appears less likely that Kyle Orton will given Denver's current successes.
Each choice will have its own set of tradeoffs, so to be honest, I'm not sure that any of those choices is significantly better to the extent that we need to go after any of them in lieu of what we've already got on our roster.
So, my answer is that I don't have anyone in particular that I want to be our QB in 2010... I really don't care as long as they are mostly competent.
What I do NOT want is a 1st round (or any round, for that matter) pick at QB. Whether we just keep what we have, or we reload in free agency, I don't care one bit.... but I do not want us to waste any more draft picks on a QB while we have so many other areas that need a serious upgrade.
I totally agree. Looking at this free agent list realisticly. I wouldn't want any of those QB's other than Manning, and that's never happening. We already have 2 stop gap QB's on the roster.
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The Browns don't have time for another gimmicky player..they need impact players..they don't run a offense set up for that ..and really shouldn't be wasting their time experimenting with something like that.
Let some other coach try to fit Elbow into some tricky scheme.
Attack, with all due respect, he is 6'3/240 and there is a shift to TEs that are more receivers than blockers. I do not see making him a TE as being a gimmick; he is a great athlete. Plus, I'm not talking about using a 1st on the guy. JMHO.
Last edited by AmStaff; 10/14/09 03:52 PM.
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If I want a TE,(which I do) then I'll draft one. 
I don't like Elbow...he can go elsewhere..the Browns made Cribbs transition, thats enough..get the pieces in place..we have too many holes to fill , then to waste a roster spot on a experiment.
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I'm with you 100% on everything in this thread. IF we would be to draft a QB high (I hope not) it had better be Locker or Clausen. I'd prefer to get Pike in the 2nd or 3rd though. Like Mourgym, I like Smith late.
Ammo: You said you didn't say Tebow was a starting QB. Yes, you did. You were willing to guarantee he would be his team's leading passer and rusher in 2011. I'm willing to guarantee the opposite. On either one.
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If I want a TE,(which I do) then I'll draft one.
I don't like Elbow...he can go elsewhere..the Browns made Cribbs transition, thats enough..get the pieces in place..we have too many holes to fill , then to waste a roster spot on a experiment.
To be honest, Cribbs has been an IMPACT player. Just not on offense; but I'd bet the farm the Andy Reid could get much more production outta JC than we've gotten. That said, Cribbs played for a small school. Tebow has been the catalyst on the best overall team in college the last few years. With "experiments" there's hardly ever an apples-to-apples comparison.
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Thats just the FA list. If i was looking to bring in a potential starter...we would have to make a trade. I see No one on that FA list i like. NRTU.....Jason Campbell? Are you guys kidding?  
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
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Stick with Anderson and build the team---I'm sure you all know thats my position---but I figured I'd make it official.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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I'm with you 100% on everything in this thread. IF we would be to draft a QB high (I hope not) it had better be Locker or Clausen. I'd prefer to get Pike in the 2nd or 3rd though. Like Mourgym, I like Smith late.
Ammo: You said you didn't say Tebow was a starting QB. Yes, you did. You were willing to guarantee he would be his team's leading passer and rusher in 2011. I'm willing to guarantee the opposite. On either one.
Ok obviously you're not getting my point...
Another QB leads down the field and Tebow comes in in the redzone as a dual threat.
I said Pass TD's and Rush TD's...not passing and rushing...you're referring to yards...way off base there.
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What is the common denomanator between those losing situations in other cities and us? Places like Oakland, Detroit, Buffalo? The common factor is, they don't have a fundimentally sound football team.
Now look at the opposite, Pitts, Philly, Atlanta, NYGiants, NE.. They are the opposite of us.. they had a solid team and plugged in a stud QB when they found one...
I believe we are somewhere in the middle of that. On one hand, we do have a couple needs to fill on offense.. one OL on the right side, a pass catching TE, we need one of our existing WRs to become a legit #1 or we need to find one.. we have a couple holes.... on the other hand, we don't need to wait until we're stacked to go get a QB.... The Jets were decent but not stacked, the Falcons were coming off 3 consecutive .500 or worse seasons, the Giants were coming off a 4 win and 6 win season when they brought Manning in, the Ravens offense was probably less than decent... and all of the QBs not only survived, they have done great....
I think it is flawed logic to say we need a ton of upgrades before it's worth drafting a QB... we need a few, then we need to keep improving after we draft the QB...
yebat' Putin
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I misremembered that part. Regardless, I'm willing to guarantee that isn't true.
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Quote:
Quote:
What is the common denomanator between those losing situations in other cities and us? Places like Oakland, Detroit, Buffalo? The common factor is, they don't have a fundimentally sound football team.
Now look at the opposite, Pitts, Philly, Atlanta, NYGiants, NE.. They are the opposite of us.. they had a solid team and plugged in a stud QB when they found one...
I believe we are somewhere in the middle of that. On one hand, we do have a couple needs to fill on offense.. one OL on the right side, a pass catching TE, we need one of our existing WRs to become a legit #1 or we need to find one.. we have a couple holes.... on the other hand, we don't need to wait until we're stacked to go get a QB.... The Jets were decent but not stacked, the Falcons were coming off 3 consecutive .500 or worse seasons, the Giants were coming off a 4 win and 6 win season when they brought Manning in, the Ravens offense was probably less than decent... and all of the QBs not only survived, they have done great....
I think it is flawed logic to say we need a ton of upgrades before it's worth drafting a QB... we need a few, then we need to keep improving after we draft the QB...
I agree,...get the franchise if he is there,....I just don't want to have to use that pick NOW (April). While none of these kids coming out next year is a guarantee, if we don't grab one, they will all make the playoffs as we grind the millstone,....
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I don't know why,, Henne seemed pretty good from what little I saw on Monday night.... Or was that a mirage?
Granted the comment was made in the context Rex Ryan being ashamed of his own defense.. but by his admission, Henne looked like Dan Marino. 
yebat' Putin
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Stick with Anderson and build the team---I'm sure you all know thats my position---but I figured I'd make it official.
Thank you. For the 3883rd time.
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How about a trade?
I think I would welcome Kevin Kolb to Cleveland myself.
I really like Clausen and a few other of the draftees, but maybe we should spend that pick on someone that is more of a guaranteed superstar (BERRY)
I only have one concern about Kolb... how much does it help that he is playing on a great football team? I think he has the arm and mentality though.
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Tyler..... Your line of thinking is like this.....with ME saying build the team around Quinn and you saying he has stunk this year and dosent deserve it. A resonable mind would say "he is right...one can see he has stunk up the joint" Now with DA....NOW I SAY....i have seen DA....."He has stunk up this year and the previous and he dosent deserve it" BOTH of those statements are SORRY to tell ya....BUT IS FACTS!!!!! Neither have earned or deserve it. We all know your stance but cant for the life of us (whether your a DA guy or not) see what would ever make you think DA is the short or much less the long term guy. Because NEITHER has done anything in the last two years to support that thinking. NOTHING!!!  Saying "keep DA and built the support around him" is like me telling my son "keep dropping all that money on wheels and paint and stereo and interior mods...when the motor is shot"  It wont work....you would be throwing your money away. You can say DA.....aaahhhh......eeerrr the motor is shot and needs replacing before you can enjoy the rest. Come on man!!!!!
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
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I only have one concern about Kolb... how much does it help that he is playing on a great football team? I think he has the arm and mentality though.
It's helps him a lot. Not to take anything away from him. But, look at their team compared to the Browns.
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I would love for one of the guys on the team to come out and prove himself. Thus far in 2 years DA is still the same guy he has always been. Which is someone I don't want leading my team. Quinn on the other hand in 2 games showed he can't get it done either. I can't believe I just typed that. There is no way for anyone to know what kind of QB Quinn is after 2 games. I know that what I saw of him he looked like crap. If that is the kind of QB he is then by all means, yes it's time to look elsewhere. I'm just not convinced that what we saw in 2 games is the guy he is going to be for his career. Are we really going to give up on a guy after just a handful of starts? If DA is going to be the guy he needs to step up his game and take advantage of the chances he has been given. If he doesn't Quinn will get his shot again later in the season. I just want one of them to take advantage of it and not look back.
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That will be impossible since Anderson is head and shoulders a way above God water walking Johnny Unitas.
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I would love for one of the guys on the team to come out and prove himself. Thus far in 2 years DA is still the same guy he has always been. Which is someone I don't want leading my team.
Quinn on the other hand in 2 games showed he can't get it done either. I can't believe I just typed that. There is no way for anyone to know what kind of QB Quinn is after 2 games. I know that what I saw of him he looked like crap. If that is the kind of QB he is then by all means, yes it's time to look elsewhere. I'm just not convinced that what we saw in 2 games is the guy he is going to be for his career. Are we really going to give up on a guy after just a handful of starts?
If DA is going to be the guy he needs to step up his game and take advantage of the chances he has been given. If he doesn't Quinn will get his shot again later in the season.
I just want one of them to take advantage of it and not look back.
It's really hard to explain why Quinn has played so badly in the 2 1/2 games. He didn't play this way in the preseason games.
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Stick with Anderson and build the team---I'm sure you all know thats my position---but I figured I'd make it official.
As much as Quinn Humpers have loved Quinn is how much you love DA.. DA is not the answer by a long shot... WE NEED A QB.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/FUKyw.png) "Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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I guess I never did answer the question.... Quote:
So what QB would you like to have next season and why?
First I'll say, I only want one. (Yes I know you need a back-up but I want one guy to go into the season comfortable that it's his job)
At this point I'd give DA a while to find some consistency, if he doesn't I might go back to Quinn this year... at the end of the season I pick the one that I think gives me the best chance to win next year with a full off-season to act and prepare like the starter and I roll with him into next year.. then I load up on as much talent as I can in the off-season.
I don't want Quinn AND Anderson, I don't want Quinn AND a high draft pick, I don't want Anderson AND a high draft pick, I don't want either of them AND a FA..... I would rather go into next season with a mediocre starter who knows he's the starter than some ill conceived competition between 2 guys that don't feel comfortable...
If we do go the high draft pick route, I haven't seen enough of the candidates out there yet this season to say who I would want.. but if we draft one, get rid of Quinn and Anderson, keep Ratliff and let the rookie start from day 1.
yebat' Putin
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This is why I feel Quinn is pretty much already packing his bags, let alone the fact he didn't perform well with a leash that taut around his neck,....
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This is why I feel Quinn is pretty much already packing his bags, let alone the fact he didn't perform well with a leash that taut around his neck,....
I will say this about this team and these fans.. once you get labeled a certain way or acquire any amount of "baggage", it's darn near impossible to play your way out of it.
That goes for BQ as well as DA... DA has been very inconsistent, I just wonder how many "good" games he would have to put back to back before his first bad game was more than "there goes DA being DA again"... and after Quinn's start, I wonder how well he would have to play to get even a little bit of credit... I'm not sure it's possible for either of them.
yebat' Putin
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Well, I hope you're not talking at me with that, but you're certainly correct.
Us old guys are impatient; I'll accept being called that as a fault. Just look at Mark Sanchez,...
With 32x53 players coming from 46 million that play high school and college football, it shouldn't take that/this long,....
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Quote:
Quote:
This is why I feel Quinn is pretty much already packing his bags, let alone the fact he didn't perform well with a leash that taut around his neck,....
I will say this about this team and these fans.. once you get labeled a certain way or acquire any amount of "baggage", it's darn near impossible to play your way out of it.
That goes for BQ as well as DA... DA has been very inconsistent, I just wonder how many "good" games he would have to put back to back before his first bad game was more than "there goes DA being DA again"... and after Quinn's start, I wonder how well he would have to play to get even a little bit of credit... I'm not sure it's possible for either of them.
You make some great points. It's going to hard for either to play their way out of this. Most fans get a little ridiculous expecting these great results from a bad team.
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Well, I hope you're not talking at me with that, but you're certainly correct.
No sir, sir. 
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Us old guys are impatient; I'll accept being called that as a fault. Just look at Mark Sanchez,...
I'm not saying a guy can't have success immediately... but in Cleveland, if you don't... you are in for a long road.
yebat' Putin
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1 of the guys we already have.
Why?
Because we should be following the model of other successful NFL teams and building the defense and the offensive supporting cast first ... then trying to find "The" QB.
Plugging an average QB into a good team is almost always more successful than plugging a better than average QB into a bad team.
We should be using every resource we have to build the team ... and let the QB situation wait for now.
Agreed.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507 |
i have to look at what other QBs would succeed here given the cast of characters we have assembled over the last decade ......
Probably Peyton Manning would have ...... because I think he could be successful anywhere.
His brother ..... probably would have bombed here.
Roethlisberger probably would have been gone by now .....
Flacco would be called "Stinko" .....
The fact is that young QBs who succeed are put in position to succeed by virtue of the team around them.
A young QB with a strong defense can afford a mistake or 2. He can start to understand the game and his own limitatiions without blowing games left and right.
Give that same young QB a strong running game and suddenly the offense is multi dimensional, and the pressure is further lifted from his shoulders.
We have tried the "franchise QB to save the team" route a couple of times now. It hasn't worked ... and it doesn't work. Fix the fundamentals of the team ... make the team strong ... and then plug in the "franchise" QB.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,044
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,044 |
i submit that this current defense in 07 and we would've been a 12-win team and wouldn't even be having this discussion right now.
just my opinion though.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
Quote:
We have tried the "franchise QB to save the team" route a couple of times now. It hasn't worked ... and it doesn't work. Fix the fundamentals of the team ... make the team strong ... and then plug in the "franchise" QB.
Been saying that all day... I agree with ya...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum So what QB would you like to have
next season and why?
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