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It has to be a guy who isn't intimidated by Manpoleon and who'll tell him this is how it's gonna be..either go with it or leave.
Wouldn't it be better to have a GM that can work with the HC to bring in the personnel that we need?
We don't need another Savage bringing in players and telling coach---Make it work.
We need to bring in a guy who will work with Mangini to build the team. We don't need a guy who is going to create another power struggle. 
Wow, something we agree on. This is exactly why Mangini needs to be fired. He won't listen to, or work with anyone else,....
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This is exactly why Mangini needs to be fired. He won't listen to, or work with anyone else,....
not really...maybe he needs to be fired as none of us know the details of what is really going on in berea...but not for power-struggle reasons...
if Lerner (or a person hired by Lerner for the head of football operations) tells Mangini that he needs to give a list of what types of players he needs (as specific as possible) to the new GM. And, that the GM has full control of going and getting those players for Mangini.....then, he doesn't really have a say in the matter and there can be no power struggle.
the head of football operations then must make sure that the GM is truly trying to get those players for the HC and that everyone remains on the same page and philosophical path
one of the reasons we always seem to have a power struggle is that our FO structure isn't setup to avoid one.
#gmstrong
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My point is that if we are cleaning house again in order to correctly set up an FO, then clean it--ALL of it--out.
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Got it.. 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Manpoleon brought in someone he could push around..
He knew Kokopuffs mentality..he wasn't going to recommend a strong personality that would challenge him..
speculative at best!!!!
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the GM needs to have a ultimate plan
So you wanna start over?
AGAIN??!?!? 
The answer here is to bring in a guy who can work with Mangini. No one knows what happened between Man/Kok and no one knows why Kokinas was fired.
I don't know if anyone can work with Mangini, which is the problem.
And really, how much of a "rebuild AGAIN" sort of deal would this be? Seems to me that a GM is going to build a team from what is literally a clean slate.
you had a good run Hank.
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We need to bring in a guy who will work with Mangini to build the team.
Tyler, what are you smokin?
Did not Mangini HAND PICK Kokinis because he was a friend and they would work together to build the team? YES!
Did not Mangini then decide he could care less what Kokinis had to say? YES!
Who the hell do you think Mangini will work with? Who will want to work with Mangini? C'mon man.....geesh..... 
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Totally agree. This idiot cannot work with someone as his superior. He's power hungry. He keeps saying that he totally believes in his philosophy and I believe him. The problem is that his philosophy is based in psychosis.
He's nuts.
The best indication that we've hired a good GM is that he will have fired Mangini. Retaining this fat little moron would prevent me from having ANY faith in the next GM. This guy is the worst HC I've ever seen. It's just unfathomable how someone could have made such a nuclear explosion, daisy-cutter mess of an organization in less than a year.
Unfathomable.
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Cleveland Browns GM Search: It's "Capwoman" to the Rescue by Chike Erokwu
Chike ErokwuContributor
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Contributor Written on November 05, 2009 The Cleveland Browns appear hopeless. They have lost seven of their first eight games, fired their general manager during the bye week, and the injuries are stacking up like firewood. Fans are on the verge of a protest and national media types are calling for Eric Mangini’s immediate resignation.
The Browns are in desperate need of a hero.
Or a heroine.
Enter Dawn Aponte, Cleveland Browns Vice President of Football Administration.
Never heard of her? You’re not alone. Aponte is the woman responsible for working behind the scenes to handle the contractual affairs of the Cleveland Browns. In her current role with the team, Aponte’s duties include handling player contract negotiations, player cost budgeting, league compliance, and salary cap management. SI.com’s Peter King once referred to Aponte as “Capwoman” for her extensive knowledge of the salary cap and the legal ins-and-outs of the NFL.
Aponte’s responsibilities are already similar to that of a general manager. With a vacant management position and an owner desperate for change, look for Dawn Aponte to get the first shot at filling the vacant general manager position.
It would be “Capwoman” to the rescue.
During an era in professional football where the collective bargaining agreement is in shambles and an uncapped year seems more like a reality each day. Who better to handle those demands than a salary cap expert?
In an interview with the Plain Dealer’s Tony Grossi, camera-shy owner Randy Lerner was asked about Dawn Aponte and her future role with the organization.
“Dawn is a very talented executive and a good person,” Lerner said.
“My hope is that her role and impact will grow within our organization.”
A promotion of this magnitude would certainly classify as growth. Dawn Aponte is currently the vice president of football administration—a role with similar albeit different duties to that of a general manager. The learning curve may be steep, but then again the Browns have nothing to lose.
Randy Learner has always been sensitive to the public image of his Cleveland Browns. Hiring Dawn Aponte to take over as Browns’ general manager would not only be a great public relations move, but it would shift focus away from the toxicity that has become associated with jobs surrounding Eric Mangini.
Aponte would become the first woman to hold the title of NFL general manager—a story which would deflect attention away from the 1-7 football team she would inherit. Aponte has had experience working with Eric Mangini in New York, and that makes her one of the few people flexible enough to step in and take over where Kokinis left off.
From an internal standpoint, this move makes perfect sense for Eric Mangini. A first-time GM means Mangini would likely retain authority on all personnel and football decisions. From an external standpoint, Randy Lerner looks good by evoking change at the outcry of the fans, all while appearing progressive enough to break down barriers which may have been in place.
It’s a win-win situation.
Hiring Dawn Aponte won’t solve the team’s seemingly endless string of problems on the field. What it would do is equip the Browns with the personnel needed to move forward in the face of a fiscally challenging era of professional football.
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Mangini will have NO say in the next GM.
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Sorry, and I don't mean to sound sexist (because it has nothing to do with her gender), but if we hire a bean counter as our next GM I might just leave for a while...lol. Whoever wrote that article (as well meaning as it might be) has no idea what the Browns need obviously. We need someone who can build an organization, and has a keen eye for talent. She might be a cap expert, but that doesn't help us on draft day.
Keep her around to manage the cap, but give her the GM job, and you will see a fan base just become empathetic................they will simply quit caring. That really is Lerner's quandary here........he can't hire another "wonder kid" GM or think outside of the box by hiring this lady. He has to get a sure fire, instant credibility hire or he is on the verge of alienating a large portion of his paying customers.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Saying that hiring Aponte is a "great public relations move" is a massive stretch. This is one of the most educated fan bases in the NFL, if not the most. Do you honestly believe that hiring someone with ZERO talent evaluation experience and who has never played football before would qualify as a good public relations move?
This would only further alienate a fan base which is already suffering.
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Lerner would make a lot of fans pissed, including me, if he makes Aponte the GM.
We need a strong, experience GM, not some pencil pushing woman who has never done the job before.
you had a good run Hank.
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Cleveland Browns GM Search: It's "Capwoman" to the Rescue by Chike Erokwu
StOOpid logic behind that article.
Let Lerner bring in yet ANOTHER zero-experienced person with a limited background to run the show. Sure. Brilliant.
Does this writer think the league will exist without a cap forever? Sure. Brilliant.
Next article.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I don't know
This is the most important part of your post....
You don't know....no one outside of the Berea crew does.
There is soooooooooo much assumption on this board, it is sickening.
We don't know if there are people Mangini will work with...(He seems to work fine with Ryan and his staff), We don't know if there are people he won't. All we have is speculation and assumption on EVERYTHING that is going on in Berea.
The only thing we know for sure is that we have a very good Special Teams, a Defense that fights hard and shows promise if we can add some talent to it, and we have one of the most putrid offenses to ever take the field that is bringing down the rest of the team... That's just about it...
But concerning day to day happenings...and how people are interacting behind the doors at Berea....Well I refer back to what I quoted...
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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This used to be one of the most educated fan bases in the NFL
Fixed it for ya'
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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There is soooooooooo much assumption on this board, it is sickening.
If there was no assumption, speculation, and conjecture on this board of things that might happen or might have happened... and we only talked about things we were 100% certain about, this board would be about as fun as listening to NPR.
yebat' Putin
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speculative at best!!!!
I'm rarely wrong in this type of situations..you're the one who won't face reality..
So you wanna start over?
Did you just crawl out under a rock??
It's already starting over, I don't care of Manpoleon is here another year..they're getting another GM and a President of football operations..
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So you wanna start over?
AGAIN??!?!?
Yea, they might want to purge all of the talent from our roster.
yebat' Putin
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Yea, they might want to purge all of the talent from our roster.
Well, that would take about 2 minutes
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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True...but as with all things...there needs to be a balance....and right now....the 400 ton behemoth of "assumption and conjecture" has stepped on to the see saw and rocketed the tiny 5 pound "reason and common sense" into orbit...... 
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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if Lerner (or a person hired by Lerner for the head of football operations) tells Mangini that he needs to give a list of what types of players he needs (as specific as possible) to the new GM. And, that the GM has full control of going and getting those players for Mangini.....then, he doesn't really have a say in the matter and there can be no power struggle.
If lerner were to keep Mangini, I would agree to this and be optimistic. But I can see mangini letting his ego get in the way and not play someone that the GM got that Mangini didnt want. example- I can see Kokinis wanting to take Malauge with the 2nd pick. Then Mangini starting Barton anyways because Maluega didnt pass Manginis mid week exam and Maluega being on the inactive list making it look like Kokinis dont know what he is doing by taking a LB that isnt good enough to see the field. Even though he can succeed in any other system. Why would a GM want to come here if the coach wont play his players? We saw almost the same thing with Savage and Crennel. Savage said he got the right players but the coach isnt playing them right. Savage had the bigger ego and now the Browns are in the same situation but the coach is the one with the bigger ego. Lerner is going to listen to the guy that comes crying to him behind the other guys back. He dont set up a structure and stick with it. He hires guys to come in, then when one guy stabs his co-worker in the back saying "things aint working because so and so is doing things his way, they need to do things my way". Then Lerner lets someone else make decisions they werent making when they first got hired. Like when crennel hired his own coaches then savage went to lerner behind Crennels back, then Savage got to make the decisions about who gets to work with the coach.
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that is exactly why you need someone they BOTH report to in order to make sure stuff like that doesn't happen (or gets rectified quickly)
#gmstrong
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that is exactly why you need someone they BOTH report to in order to make sure stuff like that doesn't happen (or gets rectified quickly)
Kosar,...
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that is exactly why you need someone they BOTH report to in order to make sure stuff like that doesn't happen (or gets rectified quickly)
Kosar,...
Right now,Lerner.
But,of coarse,he's been asleep at the wheel since he took over.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Daman is right..that should make about 6 logical posts from him  ..it will only take 2 minutes to put quality people in every weak area on the team..problem is it's going to take a heckava FA and draft to do it.
The issue is that Manpoleon brought in career backups to mann starter positions..and didn't draft any impact players...
Won't be hard to insert better players where needed...
Once the right person is pulling the trigger the talent level should go up fast..
Thats why those say we don't want to start over don't get it..we already have..
New GM...there's going to be a new QB..
It is a restart.. Listened to Bernie this morning..he knows they can't screw up 11 picks next draft..and he also said Lerner is considering getting a experienced well known person to be the GM..
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Once the right person is pulling the trigger the talent level should go up fast..
And how many times have we said THAT before? 
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
Quote:
Once the right person is pulling the trigger the talent level should go up fast..
And how many times have we said THAT before?
How many times have we had the right guy? 
Hope springs eternal in the heart of a true Browns fan. GO BROWNS!!!!!
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-JC-
The only way Mangini is going anywhere is if he quits. Lerner is already paying Savage, Crennel and Kokinis. If he gets rid of Mangini he will have to pay him plus a new GM & HC. That's about 40mil+. I know Lerner has some deep pockets but I think he will stick with Mangini for another year or two. JMHO
Isn't he paying Collins too? 
"My signature line goes here."
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Once the right person is pulling the trigger the talent level should go up fast..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And how many times have we said THAT before?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How many times have we had the right guy?
We've said it a lot,, but it doesn't make it any less true....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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The only solution I can think of is to name Mangini the GM/Head Coach.
It's the only way that anyone will be able to Co-Exist with Mangini. Who is going to take the JOB KNOWING they have Zero Control, but yet all the responsibilities?
If Mangini helps pick the next GM, we'll be doing this again in a few months with a New Head Coach and New GM yet again.
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Isn't he paying Collins too?
Yes... but Collins still works for him- just not in football (or through employment with the Browns).
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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The problem Lerner has is a pretty simple one. He wants to hire a big time guy who's had huge success to run things.......will cost $$$$. He won't get anyone bro of that stature to work with Mangini, and that means he's gonna have to can him...........will cost $$$$. He's already on the hook for 35 million in dead FO money (assuming we lose the Kok case, and the "sources" seem to think we will). The new GM/Prez will want him his own head coach.......will cost $$$
Dude your talking about him potentially looking at him being on the hook for 80-100 million dollars in paying current/former FO employees if we do this. I know Lerner is rich, but that's still nothing to sneeze at even for him.
I do not think you'll ever get anyone of quality to come to work here with EM.........and certainly not the Holmgren's of the world. Did you read the article about what Hood said...lol........no way we get someone in here that's worth a damn without canning EM.
The real question is how much money does RL want to be on the hook for in FO expenses? I said it in another thread, and I'll say it again.............if Lerner does this, and is on the hook for 70-100 million in FO salaries then you simply cannot question his commitment to the team. His hiring practices?? Sure, but not his commitment or interest in the team. Imo there is only 2 ways this plays out.........
1. We hire a Holmgren type of guy and can EM.......big commitment from Randy
2. We hire a nobody who will work with EM...........Randy gun shy of spending the 70-100 million that he will be on the hook for at that point.
Imo Randy will do option 1. I can and have accused him of many things in the past, but never of being cheap. He will do what's right and hire a big time guy, and can Mangini. Now here comes the hard part.........he has to get it right. The new guy will get 4-5 years regardless, because RL at that point simply won't be able to afford to do this all over yet again...lol.
I know people are itching for some announcement, but I'm hoping he takes his time and does do diligence, because whoever this guy is we are married to him for 4-5 years regardless of whether he has a clue or not.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Don't fire EM, demote him to a menial position. Attack his ego and he just might walk away on his own to forgo the assault on whatever future opportunities he might envision for himself that such a demotion would entail.
#GMSTRONG
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That would violate the terms of his contract, and RL would still be on the hook for the $$$. Mangini isn't going to quit and walk away from his last big payday (21 million). The only way to rid ourselves of EM (and thus get someone respect worthy to take the job) is to fire him, and pay him his money.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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just clicking...
Depends entirely on the hire.
Holmgren, Accorsi Type - mangini will have no say in the matter. They come on board Randy will be giving them entire control. I don't think the sword would be swift.
People say noway they go with Mangini. How do we know. Possibly Mangini has some correct paths for this organization. Definitely convinced Randy. It is possible the hire would listen and possibly agree with Mangini. Of course I read a quote from Randy and it went something like this.
Wants to hire somebody strong to help the organization structure and to aid the "embattled Mangini".
Randy still believes in tha path mangini is making. Maybe so will the GM but make no mistake about it. That power GM would have the POWER...Mangini would be HC and would have to win over said GM.
Probable? I don't know I can't see in the future. But if not then it could be assessed that way in this off season...assuming the hire is done during this season - which would put us ahead of the clock as they could assess more from the rest of the season.
But we don't know what happened with Kokinis...and remember there is something tied in with the firing of Erin. And we have been told that Randy investigated Kokinis for 3 weeks prior to asking for his resignation. Randy is also claiming he breached the contract so he doesn't get paid. This doesn't sound like it has anything to do with Mangini wanting Napoleonic Power. Both sides cannot talk about it giving facts cause now there will be litigation over this. Kokinis hired a high powered lawyer to get his money. But this doesn't have much to do about GM work or not. Something is fishy about this.
What ever is done with a high powered GM - all that means is Mangini does not have Carte Blanche. If they are any good they will experience what we have here in personnel...plan and coaching. Then act. It might be acted on in the off season. After another season? or If these become positive with Mangini...continue to Good things.
I don't think anything is an automatic. I least of all believe the MEDIA especially when it concerns Mangini...these guys hate him and have grown to hate him as a cause as a Power thing and I saw this be born over night cause the Media didn't approve of Mangini turning over evidence against Belicheck. All of a sudden the Criminal entity is not to blame but the whistle blower.
JMHO...at this stage I'm going to wait and see. If he starts DA one more game I would fire him on the spot...lol but thats me. 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I've not seen his contract to know what the terms are, if you have you certainly may know about it than I do.
I just don't think this is about money for EM. He probably has a few bucks stashed away somewhere. It's about his future. He's worked his way up the ladder and kicking him to the curb will allow him to land at least a coordinator job somewhere, kicking him down that ladder a few more rungs and stashing him there for four years can cost him that future, enough so that he might walk away on his own to preserve it. Either kicking him to the curb or demoting him, you're going to have to pay the guy, not much risk on RL's end. Why not try to get him to walk on his own?
#GMSTRONG
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Probable? I don't know I can't see in the future. But if not then it could be assessed that way in this off season...assuming the hire is done during this season - which would put us ahead of the clock as they could assess more from the rest of the season.
Probable...lol........how about impossible. Why do you think guys like Heckert from Philly immediately pulled his name out of consideration for our job once Manpolean was named coach?? What about Pioli?? Also, no way a guy like Holmgren is going to fool around with someone like EM. First of all their football philosophies are totally different, and incompatible. Secondly, he can go anywhere he wants and have full control, and hire his people. Why the heck would he come here if he knows he's stuck with EM?? Answer he won't.
Now you bring up a good point with Acorsi. Ernie I could see taking the job, and keeping EM, because from what I've heard (strictly on this board.....insert grain of salt) he recommended Mangini to Lerner. So under your scenario I could see Acorsi keeping EM, but out of the big time GM targets (the ones Lerner says he wants) he would be the only one that would possibly take the job with EM still here next year. The problem is tabber he's said he doesn't want any full time job so the possibility of him being here is SLIM.
Either we keep Mangini and hire another empty suit or we can him and get a big time GM.............the choice is Lerner's...[shrug]
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Of course I haven't seen his contract either, but if you hire someone to be the HC of a football team, and then try to make him water boy so he will quit............common sense says that is a violation of his contract, and he will get his $$$$. Also, you have to consider the distraction that he would have being here in ANY capacity with the new guy. Nah the grudge isn't worth it.......pay him his money and show him the door.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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The problem Lerner has is a pretty simple one. He wants to hire a big time guy who's had huge success to run things.......will cost $$$$. He won't get anyone bro of that stature to work with Mangini, and that means he's gonna have to can him...........will cost $$$$. He's already on the hook for 35 million in dead FO money (assuming we lose the Kok case, and the "sources" seem to think we will). The new GM/Prez will want him his own head coach.......will cost $$$
DC...we've said it but it hasn't been done the right way..we have no influence on it..
BigWillie...think about it for a second outside of money..and I know the $$$$$$ figures.
We don't know who the candidates for GM will be..but I'm sure if the terms are laid that he has control and oversees the roster/draft/FA/trades..and can work for EM for a year ..it can work..
Here's the added twist I'm thinking ..there might be more than one guy brought in...U have a GM and a POF operations also.,..so those two work together..thus you've secured it and all Manpoleon is doing is coaching the players..
The biggest trump card in all of this is simple..Manpolen has to go along with whatever is laid out or else be gone.. Mangini knows that this will be his last shot at being the head guy. That tells me that he will either cooperate and do what the new GM/President asks of him, or he will be gone with the rest of the Cleveland castoffs.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 11/07/09 01:46 PM.
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Quote:
The biggest trump card in all of this is simple..Manpolen has to go along with whatever is laid out or else be gone..
The biggest trump card is your not going to get anybody who has had experience and been successful as a GM go along with having his HC picked for him. Lerner has said he wants a "high profile" guy. Well guess what alot of teams are going to want those same guys this offseason, and they will have their choice of jobs. They aren't going somewhere where they aren't able to set the entire organization up the way THEY want. Their is ZERO chance we land the big time commodity Lerner is supposedly after and keep Mangini............it just won't happen.
Now as I stated earlier it is possible that Lerner hires another "personel director" as GM, and he comes here with the idea of keeping Mangini. That could happen, because these guys just want a chance (although you won't get the best of these guys.......aka like Heckert (sp) from Philly). However, if your wanting the type of guy that Lerner is said to want then your not going to get him without letting him have full reign and hiring the people that he wants.............not that he's stuck with. The only exception could be Acorsi as I discussed with tabber. Holmgren and the like are going to be hot commodities this off season, and they aren't coming here without having FULL control, and inheriting a HC that they are forced to keep isn't going to cut it.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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