|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531 |
Quote:
What if Holmgren is the VP and hires Heckert.
Even better right?
Eagles would block that sort of move, IMO.
Holmgren's #1 on my radar right now but if Parcells came available...stand back. I think I'd go through voluntary tonsil and appendix removal to bring him here.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246 |
I think you're right, Ammo. In order for the Eagles to let Heckert go, we'd have to give him a bump up in status. If he's a GM now, we'd have to make him VP of something as well. Not that I'd have a problem with it...
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
This according to Hecket's wikipedia. (Which may not be accurate.) Quote:
Although Heckert has the title of general manager, he serves primarily in an advisory role to Eagles head coach and executive vice president of football operations Andy Reid, who has the final say in all football-related matters.
If this is true, and who knows if it is. If we offered him final say over personnel would that be considered a promotion?
Maybe give him some sort of title that made it sound better? I don't know. Just curious.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Eagles' Media Guide Under "Favorite Team" "Miami Dolphins until my Dad started working for the Cleveland Browns when I was in 7th grade." Who is his Dad and did he do with the Cleveland Browns?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,656
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,656 |
What's amazing is that in spite of how terrible things are right now, the Browns could be on the verge of something really special. As with any hire, it comes down to the right person, but Holmgren and Parcells (believe that when I see it) allow this team to stand tall and say, "We're serious about building a top notch organization. Come and be a part of it."
Talk about attracting quality coaching and FA candidates!
I'm really trying not to let my cynicism convince me that the Browns will find a way to screw it up!
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246 |
At the same time, I don't think we should start building our Super Bowl floats yet, either.
We'd all love to have a Holmgren or Parcells here. But what are the odds that they come here? Heck, I'd say they're less than the guy saying "no, I like where I am", or Holmgren wanting to coach, too, or Parcells just retiring, etc.
Let's not get TOO excited and start speculating on how these guys are going to turn us around. Let's wait until they're actually here.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
I agree.
If someone with no knowledge of the situation read these message boards they would probably think that Holmgren had already signed a contract.
I admit to contributing to that.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246 |
Quote:
I agree.
If someone with no knowledge of the situation read these message boards they would probably think that Holmgren had already signed a contract.
I admit to contributing to that.
I think it's just that, if Holmgren or Parcells did come here, we'd have a lot of reasons to be excited. So, we're all just running with that wonderful thought.
I mean, imagine having someone here who has had success in this league and can attract some pretty good coaches and players. We'd be renaming the city after him!
So, it's easy to get caught up in it. I know I do.
But it seems that we're always doing that, so I wanted to temper things a bit. It's very possible that Holmgren and Parcells turn us down. It might not be because we're so horrible, but because we're just not the right fit for them.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,950
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,950 |
I'm not big on "Big Name " people, but I do think were at the point we need to bring in a respectible Name GM if not a "Big Name " guy, to help us with signing FA and instant creditability to the FO. We somebody in place we know can & will do the job, not somebody we think or hope will grow into it. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 |
How about Parcells as VP for 2-3 years with Holgrem as GM currently, and taking VP/GM when Parcells retires? 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
You're living in a dream world.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531 |
There is NO ONE in the league more "big name" with proven track record than Bill Parcells.
No one.
I'd propose building a statue outside of CBS for him if he came. I'd build one in my front yard for sure.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 |
it sure beats the reality when I'm watching the Browns play. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
This according to Hecket's wikipedia. (Which may not be accurate.)
Quote:
Although Heckert has the title of general manager, he serves primarily in an advisory role to Eagles head coach and executive vice president of football operations Andy Reid, who has the final say in all football-related matters.
If this is true, and who knows if it is. If we offered him final say over personnel would that be considered a promotion?
Maybe give him some sort of title that made it sound better? I don't know. Just curious.
Which begs the question, how much is he contributing to their success and how much of the credit goes to Andy Reid?
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,074
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,074 |
j/c: There's another way to look at this. I'm not sure if what I'm about to say is truly what could happen, but it's a reasonable assumption (at least to me...  ) Mangini could actually stay in this scenario... and here's how: 1. Lerner fires O'Brien. Kokinins is gone. Now any "power bloc" Eric Bonaparte may have had is "blown apart." 2. A strong Prez is brought in. Lays down the law: "Here's your GM, Eric. Work with him and keep your job. Screw with me and here's your pink slip. You're a coach. Period. Ask for the kind of players you need, and take what you're given. I'll be watching everything. Problems? Come to me. 3. Coaching staff remains intact. (maybe even with Daboll). Manginig is taken down a peg, assumes ONLY the HC role, and continues building the foundation that (presumably) is being set. Egos can be managed. I've seen it before. Usually the out-of-control ego has grown to the size it has because it has been left unchecked. Smacking it down with a hard, cold dose of reality serves the same function as standing up to the school yard bully. All it usually takes is one or two confrontations. A no-nonsense type like Parcells could actually pull it off, with miimal upheaval in the coaching staff. Consistency is maintained, order is imposed, and the dysfunction eradicated. Get a Top Dawg in here with some actual teeth, and all the other dawgs will fall n line... including (or especially) Mangini.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Oh I agree that could work... the problem is that when a big ego guy gets knocked down a peg, usually they leave and apply that lesson-learned somewhere else.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
I agree he would probably fall in line. Especially if he is as smart as he seems to think he is. If he gets fired as our head coach he won't be a head coach of an NFL team for a long time, if ever.
If/when we hire our "Czar" Mangini should bow down to that person and do everything he needs to do to keep his job.
With that said, I don't see Mangini sticking around. He's caused too many problems and the "Czar" will probably not want to build a new relationship with a coach that everyone hates. And then repair the relationships with the people Mangini has made sour.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,074
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,074 |
trudat.
Maybe as part of his initial "smackdown," said Top Dawg could explain how limited #2 dawg's opportunities will be, once word gets out that even the lowly Browns were too good for him.
Hey... that felt good. Maybe I could take the job... at least for the first interview....
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
He's caused too many problems and the "Czar" will probably not want to build a new relationship with a coach that everyone hates. And then repair the relationships with the people Mangini has made sour.
I don't really care what the fans or the media say about him, if the players respect him and want to play for him then that's all I need to hear. If a guy like Holmgren or Parcells comes in and gives Mangini an endorsement, that will do a world of good for his "media perception"...
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
I don't care either.
But if I was coming in to fix things I wouldn't want to deal with Mangini.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,074
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,074 |
Might be fun for someone like Parcells. Tuna don't care if he's liked... and seems like the type wh couldd eat the Pillsbury Doughboy for sport...
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
But if I was coming in to fix things I wouldn't want to deal with Mangini.
You really don't know that. At least I don't. I'd definitely want to sit down with him and discuss how he got here and where he wants to go... get a feel for how comfortable he is with my authority... find out how the players respond to him... watch the games with a more critical eye on things... Then again if you are Parcells or Holmgren, you've got enough trusted friends around the league that you can go talk to them too and find out what is true and what is not.... I just don't think you flush him out because of preconceived public perception.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,993
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,993 |
I was excited to have a disciplinarian come into the job after Gramps Crennel left.
But Christ on a bike, this guy has taken every ounce of fun out of the game. These guys hate this guy. Did you hear how Rod Hood talked about him? I understand that he may have an axe to grind but I believe him. Playing for this guy sucks. And it will have an impact on whether guys will come and play for us.
I wouldn't retain this idiot if he was the last coach in the world.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,855
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,855 |
I"ve been saying I don't want him here next year.. I want whoever the Czar is to pick his own guy.. But, what if the Czar comes in and says,, Mangini is my guy... is there going to be a public outcry for the new Czars head?
DC makes a good point.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531 |
Quote:
I"ve been saying I don't want him here next year.. I want whoever the Czar is to pick his own guy.. But, what if the Czar comes in and says,, Mangini is my guy... is there going to be a public outcry for the new Czars head?
DC makes a good point.
Not if the Czar is Parcells.
Speaking of Czars, great photo I found.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 8,767
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 8,767 |
Does Parcells REALLY offer long term stability?
I'd be fine if agreed to a five year deal at least but I'd like a FO with a 10 plus year potential if that's possible in his era.
Just throwing some more fodder out there for discussion.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531 |
Quote:
Does Parcells REALLY offer long term stability?
I'd be fine if agreed to a five year deal at least but I'd like a FO with a 10 plus year potential if that's possible in his era.
Just throwing some more fodder out there for discussion.
Yes...even if he's only here for 2 seasons, he'll leave this place better off than it was when he came in with great people in place.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,649
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,649 |
Quote:
My question is, assuming he hires his own GM and head coach, what are his job responsibilities on a day-to-day basis? I keep hearing that he's going to oversee football operations. Does that mean he just walks around the offices in Berea and checks in on people daily? Does he have a bigger role in assisting the GM with scouting, etc.? Is he in coaching meetings with position coaches and the head coach?
Don't know what he'll do day-to-day, but, I know this: If Holmgren is hired, John Gruden will be our next Head Coach. - Holmgren raised Gruden in Green Bay.
Last edited by RememberMuni; 11/09/09 06:56 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 434
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 434 |
If P arcells is brought in, I would love for him to groom his succesor picked by him. If it's Holmgren I have no problem with Chucky at head coach as long as we don't continue the qb. carosel.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 830
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 830 |
Holmgren raised alot of coaches in Green Bay, what exactly is it that makes you say Gruden specifically? Ive seen interviews where they brought the entire Holmgren tree together to talk about working under him. And quite honestly I got the impression that most of those guys didnt like him, or working for him at least.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
Quote:
If P arcells is brought in, I would love for him to groom his succesor picked by him. If it's Holmgren I have no problem with Chucky at head coach as long as we don't continue the qb. carosel.
I'd be fine with that as long as he didn't try to draft Tebow! 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
"consideration for our job once Manpolean was named coach?? What about Pioli?? Also, no way a guy like Holmgren is going to fool around with someone like EM."
Boy for a guy who just posts on the board like me you sure know these guys pretty personal. I wish I had those connections. How can you say NO WAY when its all opinion.
Pioli??? Mangini wasn't hire btw when Pioli interviewed here. Why do people who think they know everything on this subject repeat that...when I hear that I sort of lose all credibility to the other stuff you are stating as fact.
Sorry then I just go on ignore. We turned away from Pioli after his interview and went with Mangini.
But yeah you're right...anything I propose must be incorrect. I'm really not saying much...but a lot of what I have said is actually coming about.
I immediately thought Wolf and Accorsi were possible Temp Power guys to build this thing....Temp because of their age.
I then went as made a short wish list of Dungy and Holmgren as 2 that could do it and take the role of Parcells having with Miami.
Dungy of course is enjoying his retirement but I here Holmgren being mentioned a lot. Only McKay of Atlanta was out of my personal wish loop.
So how wrong am I really?
All I'm saying is Mangini will get a chance...A Chance to pitch his organization path with this team. Cause it did convince Randy...Possibly it could also convince Holmgren.
Of course I don't understand the redicule cause I clearly stated If NOT THEN THE POWER guy as soon as this OFF SEASON would be making a change. I really don't see the improbability of what I am suggesting will transpire is going to be far off.
Its like he's going to review and Like or DisLike what he has in Mangini....if its a sure thing as you say...then its a sure thing. I'm not predicting what THE POWER GUY THINKS...go ahead and do so. Just cause you think its a total loss doesn't mean the NEW POWER guys will.
Anyways all we can do is wait and see...but so far I am pretty close to what now seems to be transpiring. Not that it means anything.
JMHO not FACT and if you disagree guess what...It ain't fact either 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,331
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,331 |
Quote:
And quite honestly I got the impression that most of those guys didnt like him, or working for him at least.
Working for who? Holmgren or Gruden.
I've heard John Gruden is unorganized, unprepared, and not a very good coach at all.
I used to want Gruden the most to come in (Mangini being my second choice), so goes to show you it's probably a bad move.
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,246
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,246 |
I wonder if Shanahan might want in if Holmgren got the VP job. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 830
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 830 |
It was an NFL network piece about the coaches under Holmgren with GB. I cant remember them all, but the big names were Mariucci and Gruden. And just from the general feel of the interview it didnt seem as if many of them liked working under Holmgren, he is apparently very demanding.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195 |
j/c Let's see, you're Bill Parcells, you live in Miami, Florida. You make all the money you could want, you have all the power you could want and your team made the playoffs last year. Your options, stay where you're at or move your family to Cleveland, Ohio, get all the money you want, get all the power you want and your team doesn't have a QB, an RB, any WR's or a decent TE. You have a pro bowl LT and a really high priced LG. Otherwise you have no real line to speak of. Your Defense is well,  and your head coach is the Marquis de Sade. Oh and did I mention you're going to have to move your family from Miami, Florida to Cleveland, Ohio? You folks do dream...
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
j/c
I'm fine with Holmgren or Heckert, but I'd prefer the latter. I like long term.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,809
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,809 |
Mike Holmgren headed to the Cleveland Browns? By Mark J. Miller Now that George Kokinis has been ousted as general manager of the Cleveland Browns, team owner Randy Lerner has been trying to find a replacement. Mike Holmgren is apparently at the top of his list along with Ernie Accorsi ad Ron Wolf, according to the News-Herald. The 68-year-old former Browns and New York Giants GM Accorsi says he doesn't want to come out of retirement to be a general manager but might do it if he got to run the entire football operation. The 61-year-old former Green Bay Packers and Seattle Seahawks coach Mike Holmgren (who also was GM of Seattle) is supposedly the guy at the very top of Lerner's list. But Holmgren supposedly wants to coach again and not just move into the front office. So Brown coach Eric Mangini may have something else to worry about. As for Kokinis, the rumor is that the Browns mandated that he go into counseling in order to help him not be so "withdrawn." Source: The News-Herald web page
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,809
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,809 |
Quote:
The 61-year-old former Green Bay Packers and Seattle Seahawks coach Mike Holmgren (who also was GM of Seattle) is supposedly the guy at the very top of Lerner's list. But Holmgren supposedly wants to coach again and not just move into the front office.
IMO, it would even be better for the Browns if Holmgren wanted the head coaching job along with the GM position. If I were Lerner, I would sign Holmgren in a heartbeat if he still wanted to coach and be the GM.
What would it take to convince Holmgren to come to Cleveland?...Lerner would have to open the checkbook and give the man total control of the football operations....very doable, IMO.
jmho...mac
Last edited by mac; 11/09/09 08:17 PM.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,549
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,549 |
I think Lerner gets checks printed in books printed the size of the "Yellow Pages" .
I don't think money is going to be a issue.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Eric Mangini will help pick new
GM
|
|
