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The 61-year-old former Green Bay Packers and Seattle Seahawks coach Mike Holmgren (who also was GM of Seattle) is supposedly the guy at the very top of Lerner's list. But Holmgren supposedly wants to coach again and not just move into the front office.
IMO, it would even be better for the Browns if Holmgren wanted the head coaching job along with the GM position. If I were Lerner, I would sign Holmgren in a heartbeat if he still wanted to coach and be the GM.
What would it take to convince Holmgren to come to Cleveland?...Lerner would have to open the checkbook and give the man total control of the football operations....very doable, IMO.
jmho...mac
Agree, .... Big Mike has the experience to do both whereas EM act(ed)/(s) like he did.
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Not if the Czar is Parcells
You are probably right, but there are NO guarantees he won't want to keep Mangini,.. there isn't any guarantee that Holmgren wouldn't want to keep mangini,.,,,
If you say they won't, it's at best, guess work...
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IMO, it would even be better for the Browns if Holmgren wanted the head coaching job along with the GM position. If I were Lerner, I would sign Holmgren in a heartbeat if he still wanted to coach and be the GM.
I really hope that doesn't happen.. I don't want Holmgren to be both HC and GM... He tried that before and it didn't work out to well for him in Seattle.. in fact, go back and look at the record and you will see he didn't start winning until the removed him as the GM...
Personally, I think the jobs combined are too big for one guy. JMO..
I'll take holmgren as HC or as Czar,, but not both.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Not if the Czar is Parcells
You are probably right, but there are NO guarantees he won't want to keep Mangini,.. there isn't any guarantee that Holmgren wouldn't want to keep mangini,.,,,
If you say they won't, it's at best, guess work...
Parcells is the ONLY way Mangini has a shot at staying because of his prior relationship with him.
Anyone else will fire him before they even unload their briefcase.
Mangini violated the trust of the National Football League with spygate. The National Football League is an elite fraternity similar to the stonecutters. He's blackballed.
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That last bit is BS.
No it's not. Just watch how everyone associated with the National Football League rips on him. Literally everyone. Usually NFL guys tend to defend each other out of respect because they know the difficulty of coaching and playing in the League. EVERYONE throws him under the bus.
Just watch, Mangini's not even gonna get a sniff at a coordinator job next year. He's gonna have to coach at Tijuana State or something like that.
Last edited by Ammo; 11/09/09 09:55 PM.
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I'll guarantee that's not true.
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I'll guarantee that's not true.
Then why is it that everyone associated with the League in some way, shape or form has been ripping him to absolute shreds?
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'Cause he's an arrogant, controlling, manipulative ass?
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'Cause he's an arrogant, controlling, manipulative ass?
So why would any coach want that as his D coordinator? Especially after the word came out that Belichick took over the defense in 2005 cuz Mangini wasn't getting the job done?
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Never heard that and because he's a good DC.
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I'd LOVE to get Parcells but I'll be HAPPY if we land Holmgren. I believe Gruden WILL be our next HC if Holmgren is our Prez of Fball Ops. It will be interesting to hear what Gruden has to say during the game next Monday Night.
Btw..if Parcells does indeed come here to take over as Prez of Fball Ops there is no guarantee Mangini will stay on has HC. Honestly, I really wouldn't care if Mangini was retained as HC because I firmly believe Parcells would get this franchise on the right track regardless.
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I don't think Gruden will be here at all. He's gonna want more control than Holmgren would give him.
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Never heard that and because he's a good DC.
It's been documented in recent articles that Belichick removed some of Mangini's responsibility with the defense cuz he wasn't handling it well.
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I don't think Gruden will be here at all. He's gonna want more control than Holmgren would give him.
Yea.. control on the QB situation.. Thats the only reason I fear Gruden.. He runs through QB's.
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What makes you think Gruden wants more "control"?
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What QB situation? Last time I checked we don't have a QB. Who knows though, maybe Gruden could salvage Quinn's career as a Brown. Afterall, doesn't Gruden run a WC style offense that is more tailored to Quinn's skillset?
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Yes, Quinn would fit in well with Gruden.
During the heyday of Gruden's time in Oakland they were a great team to watch. Gannon was the QB with Brown and Rice. The design of the offense was to spread the defense horizontally as well as vertically. It is perhaps the only time I have seen a team with a planned attack that was horizontal in design.
Gruden has made references to his time as QB coach in Green Bay and his feelings to Holmgren. So has Farve, they even talk about a remote that would close the door. I think they have respect for each other, but it was not all roses and cherry blossoms. I don't care if Holmgren can be tough, frankly I don't mind that. There is a thing about being tough and respectful, and tough and stupid.
Mangini is the latter.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Never heard that and because he's a good DC.
It's been documented in recent articles that Belichick removed some of Mangini's responsibility with the defense cuz he wasn't handling it well.
Bingo!
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j/c
For the life of me, I can't understand why any Browns fans would want Gruden here.
Beyond his "Chucky sidelines photops," what has he ever done as a HC to warrant true HC cred?
...and before you start in on a (single) "SB ring," let's all be clear.... He was the HC of a SB team.... with players assembled and co-ordinated BEFORE he was even a part of the team.... kinda like Blanton Collier- after Art Modell fired Paul Brown here in Cleveland.
One and done.
Legacy? Forget it. Blanton and Gruden are in the same leaky boat, historically.
All you Gruden fans... ask yourself this: What did TB do after Chucky put his imprint on the team? I'll answer it for you... they faded.... fast.
Gruden? Jury's still out on him as a HC... and his body of work isn't exactly inspiring confidence in me.. Tell me something... WHAT HAS HE ACTAULLY BUILT?
We need a HC who can actually help build something, in concert with the GM/Prez, and anyone else who wants to take this team from cellar to attic. Guden hasn't shown me that he can play that role in the HC capacity.
But he sure 'looks good'- storming about the sidelines... if that's what you're into.
We need a coach who can help the next GM BUILD something from nothing. At presesent, we got nuttin'.
I for one, don't see Gruden as anything other than a stopgap or figurehead.
Any Dawgs who are high on John Gruden... PLEEEEEEEEZE tell me what you're seeing that I'm missing....
I await your wisdom......
[shrugz]
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Using the same logic... Gruden's Bucs beat Gruden's old Raiders in the Super Bowl... and what has happened to the Raiders since he's been gone?
I think it's a moot point anyway because I doubt he wants to come here.
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Never heard that and because he's a good DC.
There actually is an article that says that Deep. I posted it a week or so ago but it's a speculative piece.. The writer seemed to just be speculating.. I don't remember him offering any verificaton. So I don't know it to be absolute.
Ammo, what I was trying to say is that there is no guarantee that the new Czar will dump Mangini. Having said that, I suspect whoever gets hired isn't gonna want the baggage and is gonna wanna start with a clean slate.
JMO however.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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The 68-year-old former Browns and New York Giants GM Accorsi says he doesn't want to come out of retirement to be a general manager but might do it if he got to run the entire football operation.
Since he's been out of football for a while, like to know his thoughts about running a team.. The 61-year-old former Green Bay Packers and Seattle Seahawks coach Mike Holmgren (who also was GM of Seattle) is supposedly the guy at the very top of Lerner's list. But Holmgren supposedly wants to coach again and not just move into the front office. So Brown coach Eric Mangini may have something else to worry about.
There needs to be checks and balances for anyone brought in..regardless of whats reported, and what actually transpires ..I'd prefer a POFO(president of football operations)..a GM and a HC..no duo roles..
Oh and Manpoleon has a lot to worry about anyway..don't matter who comes.
The thing is RL has to get it right this time...he can't be infactuated with anyone but he must make the best decision possible without letting his emotions cloud his logic..I use that word loosely..
Randy has failed to put one person in charge who had already been proven and experienced at the position they were hired for.
And some in the other positions just seem to be there and don't mesh with whats really needed..
Go right down the line of his hires. Collins, Phil, RAC, Mangini, Kokopuffs were ALL first time to their positions. While Mangini had experience as a HC..But not for the level of power he was given.
Now it's been said Kokopuffs needed counseling???
Dude what the heck happened?
They needed to get you counseling to help you become more assertive in your job?
Why so you can stand up to a dictator? 
Oh my goodeness..this stuff hits new heights everytime new people are brought in..I said several years ago this team is dysfunctional and it truely is..
Then add to this, ALL the other newbies up and down the chain of command. It's one thing to allow newbies to develop (if they can) when having experience around them. It's another thing to have an entire organization trying to develop and learn with no one be accountable to other than Randy ..who himself means well but just has made some horrible decisions..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 11/10/09 09:30 AM.
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Gruden? Jury's still out on him as a HC... and his body of work isn't exactly inspiring confidence in me.. Tell me something... WHAT HAS HE ACTAULLY BUILT?
As a coach, what do you build? You coach and manage, others do the building... at least that's how everybody here thinks it should work..
As for what he has built (if you want to give him credit for building something).. he took a Raiders team that was 4-12 and immediately went to 8-8 a couple years then to 12 and 10 win seasons and a super bowl appearance the year after he left.
With the Bucs he took over a team that Dungy had built and won the super bowl, then slid a couple years, then rebuilt to a 12 win season, then plateaued at 9-7 for his last couple years... when Sapp, Simeon Rice, and a couple others were getting old... and of course, he never could find the QB he wanted... so I suppose whether or not he "built" anything, depends on whether or not you put the personnel decisions on him...
yebat' Putin
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Couldn’t agree more with the statement of getting it right, and avoiding dual roles. I strongly suggest RL to go and talk to Arthur Blank, Atlanta owner and learn from his experience of hiring new people for falcons. If I remember it right Arthur wanted to hire Tuna, eventually he ended up hiring guy from Philly.
My point is RL has to be through in his process, there is no guarantee he will get the guy he wanted. He has to have multiple plans to get this thing right. Its his last opportunity in my opinion.
Good luck browns
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Gee ya read much...please pray tell where do I remotely suggest that we hire PARCELLS 
oops...never mind I see you J/Clicked lol  so that wasn't directed to me.
I don't see how anyone could suggest that either. Although when has Parcells been satisfied and sat in one place... 
But yeah that is a pipe dream...I do think however we are looking for a similar TYPE and ULTIMATE behind the lines POWER STRUCTURE....And why I think Holmgren is THE guy. McKAY, CASSERLY scare me...
Holmgren is Brilliant and can pull it off.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Its his last opportunity in my opinion.
Why? are you gonna fire him? 
man, he's a billionaire, he's a Browns Fan from the word go.., I think that if he hires bad this time, he'll just buckle down and do it again until he gets it right.
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I strongly suggest RL to go and talk to Arthur Blank, Atlanta owner and learn from his experience of hiring new people for falcons
right, let's only look at the success and forget the failures that came before..... What about the college coach that quit mid season,, that was a FINE hire...
They all make a blunder,,, Dallas has, NE has, god knows Pittsburgh has, Cinci, Detroit, GB, name a team and if you look, you will find they've made mistakes.. in some cases, many mistakes.
But you know what I don't think has ever happened? I don't remember an owner yet that bowed to public pressure to sell an NFL team...
So,I'd say he has as many opportunities as he wants,, But that's JMO
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I said its my opinion; let me spell it for you in better way. I know no one can fire RL…he is the owner of the team. I guess if you fail time and time again like RL in hiring right person to run his football team, where he dose not have any expertise or experience. It might dawn on him to move on to something else which is more reputable and profitable. JMHO
I was just using recent success story when I used Atlanta as example. At least I am trying to look somewhere other then NE model. You can look wherever you want that’s your opinion; I want to look at only successful teams. Everyone fails at some point of time, what matters is getting it right sometime.
Pittsburg has not failed since RL took over this team; don’t care if they have failed in the past.
Once again for you it’s Just My opinion
Last edited by CrUzEr; 11/10/09 02:20 PM.
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I kinda get tired of vailed threats some folks seem to be fond of.. Things like This is his last chance or He's only gets one more chance or He's a baffoon and shouldn't be allowed to own an NFL Franchise (ok, I made that one up  ) It's like,, Ok,, what are you gonna do about it if he fails again.....nothing. There isn't anything you can do except not buy the Browns Gear, don't buy tickets to the game, don't root for them and don't watch them on TV... And even then, with roughly a 4 billion net worth, how much are you gonna hurt Randy Lerner,, Not much. So while I understood that it's just your opinion,,, It doesn't even make sense to say this is his last opportunity... cause no way is it! Just sayin... By the way, I reread my post, I can see where you may have thought I was being a bit petty.. I wish I could re write it cause that wasn't my intent..... sorry for that....
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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Lerner has spoken that if he failed he would sell the team..at this moment he doesn't want to quit..he doesn't want his name and reputation to go down as the man who screwed up the Browns and couldn't fix them..
Thats his challenge now..it's why he wants to try and get it right .
He wants to be able to go away on his timetable and feel that he fixed the mess that he helped make.
So..this time it's going to be a process..perhaps a lengthy one..
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I said its my opinion; let me spell it for you in better way. I know no one can fire RL…he is the owner of the team. I guess if you fail time and time again like RL in hiring right person to run his football team, where he dose not have any expertise or experience. It might dawn on him to move on to something else which is more reputable and profitable. JMHO
I doubt it. Unless the Cleveland Browns are posting a loss on the balance sheet, which I doubt they are even close, then $1 profit is still $1 profit. He's not writing these checks to Savage and Crennel and such from his personal account.
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I was just using recent success story when I used Atlanta as example. At least I am trying to look somewhere other then NE model. You can look wherever you want that’s your opinion; I want to look at only successful teams. Everyone fails at some point of time, what matters is getting it right sometime.
And once you get it right, you can carry that a long long way. It's getting it right that first time. How many times did the Wright brothers try flying before they found the magic combination?
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Pittsburg has not failed since RL took over this team; don’t care if they have failed in the past.
It's not like Lerner took a winning successful team and made it fail. He took over a poor team and has not had success bringing it out from obscurity.
Every once in a while, even a blind squirrel finds a nut. Randy will eventually hit the right combo. I can just hope it's sooner than later.
Running an NFL franchise is a learning experience. He's made many mistakes, let's hope he learns something from each one and imroves as time goes on.
I think people have incorrect expectations of this team. They look at 60 years of history and wonder why we are where we are. But the thruth is, this is not the Browns we grew up with, this is a whole new team.
There are times I think we would have been better off to start new with a new name, new face and start fresh.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I don’t mind if it’s long process. Though I hate that word now days But he did get sold very quickly on one guy last time. I just don’t want him to repeat that thinking. That’s why I said he needs to consult as many people as possible and think through this process. Daman, that’s fine man. I also did not mean literally.
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