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Not a thing wrong or disrespectful about my quote.
And perhaps the soldiers have come to this conclusion because of the fact that many of the people in support of the war have been screaming from the rooftops that you can't support the troops and not support the war. They've been pushing that agenda fast and furiously and personally, I think they have the most to do with how some of the troops might feel. They are just as disgusting and blatant about using the troops and not caring about their moral as many of you claim the anti-war folks to be.
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OMG...that is IRE's opinion. Doesn't make him right or wrong...it's what he feels. You want to say he is wrong for stating his feelings??
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here Michelle, but the quote being referenced is from Jules. And in her quote she is stating that if the soldiers feel that way, they are wrong. So Coach says if somebody feels a different way, THEY are wrong..... so are feelings subject to being "wrong" or not?
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Again, I said if that is their perception I don't believe it to be a correct interpretation. Spin on, Coach, it is what you are good at. 
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Missed that one . Well, can't say I agree with the poster but they did say it was thier opinion so ..for what it's worth. Again, I don't understand how anyone's opinion can be wrong but...whatever .
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Never said it was disrespectful or wrong. I was just showing Ire that there was people on here saying the troops opinions were "wrong" (there were others, too, but yours was right there to quote easily).
Could it be that maybe the soldiers feel the same way as those you are saying are pushing that and screaming it from the rooftops all on their own?
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Geez, follow the actual thread and what is actually said.
Oh, you're right....you haven't followed half of this thread and again pick on someone else. Well, excuuuuse me. 
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Sorry if a Canuck interjects, but that's how I read it. "Soldiers shouldn't feel the majority aren't supporting them" is what she meant, IMO
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Again, why is it wrong for me to state that if they feel that way that I don't think what they are perceiving to be true?? Please explain that to me. Good God.
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Picked on someone else? Ire asked me what I was talking about because he didn't see where anyone said the troops opinion was wrong. I posted a quote that did. How is that picking on someone? The post before that was asking about what could be done to let these soldiers know that their conception of lack of support was wrong. I was actually trying to come up with a solution, not pick on someone. Have you had your coffee yet?
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Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here Michelle, but the quote being referenced is from Jules. And in her quote she is stating that if the soldiers feel that way, they are wrong.
Okay, so maybe that's where I got lost. Regardless, it's HER opinion. There.
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So Coach says if somebody feels a different way, THEY are wrong..... so are feelings subject to being "wrong" or not?
Feelings cannot be wrong, no, in my opinion. Actions can be, however.
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Could it be that maybe the soldiers feel the same way as those you are saying are pushing that and screaming it from the rooftops all on their own?
I'm sure some do and some don't. I just don't think some those supporting the war are as innocent as they make themselves out to be. In fact, far from it.
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Have you had your coffee yet?
Coach, I get it now. Your quote confused me because I didn't see who it referenced. Big deal...move on.
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Feelings cannot be wrong, no, in my opinion. Actions can be, however.
See I think this is where the general disconnect is in this whole topic and why some are getting frustrated. To state that somebodys feelings are wrong can be interpreted two ways... is the feeling itself wrong or is the person wrong for feeling it?
My "feeling" could be that the Browns are a legitimate superbowl contender next year. Is my feeling wrong? Yes it is because there is no justification for me to feel that way. Am I wrong for feeling it? No, I'm just a pie-in-the-sky optimist.
So the soldiers feel they aren't supported. Is that feeling wrong? Probably because the vast majority of Americans, whether for or against the war, want whats best for the troops. Are they wrong for feeling it? No, because 90% of what they read about their effort and their objective, is negative.
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GEEZ all this talk of feelings and opinions  I have to remember to ask my wife what my opinion is when she gets home 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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j/c
Hate to throw a wrench into this thing,but...............
I very much agree with the reasons for and the war in Afghanastan. However,I don't share that view about Iraq.
So what do the troops think of that? Since I support one war,but not the other,according to those who feel "you have to support the wat to support the troops" which category would that put me into?
I think it's obvious to most troops why Americans don't support the war in Iraq. Wheather they agree with that sentiment or not,I feel most rational people clearly understand the reasoning. And that "includes" the troops.
And once again,many of the troops themselves either don't support the war,or they don't support the strategy. From what I get out of everything posted,THREE troops in the video,and the REPUBLICAN posters on this boards freinds and relatives,are the one's who share this idea.
I've posted an aerticle where it quotes troops THEMSELVES that don't believe in the current strategy. A link to Iraqi veterans and troops THEMSELVES that are against this war. Another link to FAMILIES of troops who do not support this war. Yet everyone seems to concentrate on troops who "share their view alone"?
Troops look at this war differently. You guys only want to concentrate on the troops who share YOUR view,and neglect the views of other troops and their families. Sorry,that frog don't fly!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Actually there were strong Anti-War activists during WWII as well.
You just like arguing for the sake of arguing don't you? I know you are to intelligent to have missed my point about Americans being convinced during WWII. We stayed until the end, regardless of the strong anti war activists. Why did we stay until the end? I think mostly because is was a justified war, we were attacked after all. I think a good sales pitch helped. Dubya hasn't sold me on the idea this war is needed. Convince me this is needed, and you have another 110% supporter. He unfortunately hasn't done that.
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Why did we stay until the end? I think mostly because is was justified, we were attacked after all.
But as the old saying goes... "Not by Germany"....
Why did we stay until the end? I think it has very little to do with "justification"...
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But as the old saying goes... "Not by Germany"....
Wow! Give this man a prize. He gave the correct answer to the wrong question. We weren't attacked by Germany, but they did declare war on us Dec. 11th 1941. So what was your point?
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Why did we stay until the end? I think it has very little to do with "justification"...
If taking away the ability to wage war on someone that attacked you isn't justification for war, nothing justifies war.
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So what was your point?
My point was not so much to say you're wrong as it was to instigate. I know Germany declared war on us... were they on the verge of invading? Or do you think they were sort of already stretched thin with that 2 front war with about 10 different countries that they were involved in?
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If taking away the ability to wage war on someone that attacked you isn't justification for war, nothing justifies war.
Are we talking about Europe or Asia? And the question wasn't why we went to war, it's why we stayed until the end. Germany's ability to continue to wage war was dismantled long before the war was "over"....
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Weren't some of the European nation under attack our allies? Didn't we have mutual treaties with England and France?
Much like we did with Kuwait? I see that as totaly justifiabe.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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So do I... but once we removed the Nazis from France, Poland, etc and essentially crippled their war machine, why did we have to stay and finish it? Why couldn't the Europeans do the clean up? We were still losing thousands of men and the war was essentially over.
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To be honest,I would have to see and know exactly what our agreement was with our European allies going into WW2 to put forth an educated guess in an attempt to answer that question. It could have been that we agreed to stay in the war as their allies as long as the war continued. But I have no real idea.
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So, by supporting them all the way.
In the case of the soldiers that raped an Iraqi girl and then murdered her and her family and set the bodies and house on fire to hide their crime. Or the soldiers that have killed unarmed Iraqi civilians without just cause. What are we supposed to do?
Help them cover up the crime?
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Yeah, Charlie, that's what these soldiers are referring to.....and people wonder why there are so many that get angry at some of those that are anti-war. This kind of nonsense is a perfect example. 
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Yeah, Charlie, that's what these soldiers are referring to.....and people wonder why there are so many that get angry at some of those that are anti-war. This kind of nonsense is a perfect example.
Why are the soldiers in Iraq?
Let's see:
To overthrow Saddam Hussein.
Is that done? Yes.
Then, they are there until the Iraqis can govern themselves.
Do the Iraqis have a government? Yes.
I think it is high time for the Iraqis to fend for themselves. US Soldiers cannot stay there indefinately.
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Who said they can? And what does that have to do with the absurd leap you made in your previous post. Neither are germaine to what those soldiers said that is the topic of this post.
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Pit, that's a reasonable answer... but I think we would have stayed to help finish the job, regardless of what treaties and agreements were in place, for one simple reason.... it was the right thing to do.
That, and the one thing that separates WWII from our current "war on terrorism"... we knew who the enemy was, he was a short guy with a cheap mustache and he was hiding in Berlin.... get him and the whole thing falls apart. We KNEW that. As for our current enemy, we don't know who they are, they are everywhere and while some may think Osama is the ring leader, I dare say if we get him, another head will sprout like a mythological serpeant and the "war" will not miss a beat, in fact it may get worse.
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So, by supporting them all the way.
In the case of the soldiers that raped an Iraqi girl and then murdered her and her family and set the bodies and house on fire to hide their crime. Or the soldiers that have killed unarmed Iraqi civilians without just cause. What are we supposed to do?
Help them cover up the crime?
Yeah. That's what those soldiers were referring to.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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Yeah, Charlie, that's what these soldiers are referring to.....and people wonder why there are so many that get angry at some of those that are anti-war. This kind of nonsense is a perfect example.
I;'m FOR the war in Afghanastan. So do I get half a credit? Or how does that work?
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I can see what you're saying DC. But going with that train of thought,we didn't invade and go to war with "a third party" to try to draw Hitler and the nazi's into that country.
That's what my concern is. Sadaam,while an evil dictator,as we both know are numerous in this world,had no ties to Al Queda,no ties to Bin Ladin and nothing to do with 9/11. It almost appears as somebody went "inie meanie minie mo" and decided "what the hey,this is as good a spot as any".
And we used Iraq as a vehicle to "draw the terrorists to". Now that may be exagerating,but the end result looks to be the outcome of our actions. There's a lot of facts and questions still left unanserred before we know if that is,or is not how it happenned,but in the end,that is the results we see today.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I think you are on the right track. I don't think it was as much to lure the terrorists to us as it was to establish a base from which to run our middle east operations. Let's face it, we have "allies" there in the Saudis and Pakistan, but do we really trust them? Are they going to let us establish a base for 75,000 soldiers? Of course not, that would be suicide for them.... so we needed a base, I would guess Israel was an option but that's not really right in the middle of it either... so we picked Iraq. It was the perfect target for a couple reasons... one: They were weak militarily, two: We had history and could justify attacking them, three: We thought the people would back us once we got there.
I think all 3 darn near fell right into line but that darn insurgency just wouldn't go away and we wouldn't commit the overwhelming force and risk the civilian casualties it would have taken to stomp it out.
So when people say that for me to still support this war is for me to support being lied to and false intel and blahblahblah..... Neither you, nor anybody else, will ever convince me that we went there to stop Iraq from nuking us..... it wasn't even on my radar screen then or now as a reason...... It was to establish a REAL friendly ally and a base of operations because this government, for all of the mistakes they may have made, was forward thinking enough to recognize that the overall battle on terror was going to be a long drawn out event and we would be hard pressed to fight it from thousands and thousands of miles away...... But that's just my opinion.
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Again, why is it wrong for me to state that if they feel that way that I don't think what they are perceiving to be true?? Please explain that to me. Good God.
Umm...ya lost me . Not sure what is going on in this thread any more but I think that the majority of us all respect and support our troops in our own ways.
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See,that type of straight forward honesty,I could have supported. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I think all 3 darn near fell right into line but that darn insurgency just wouldn't go away and we wouldn't commit the overwhelming force and risk the civilian casualties it would have taken to stomp it out.
Credible Bush and his staff said that all of this would happen over a decade ago. They cited it for their reason not to overthrow the government. It wasn't a danr, oh shucks type thing. There is no reason, no reason, in foresight and hindsight, why we shouldn't have expected an insurgency. 'Greeted as liberators' was a joke. I get what you're saying, DC, you're taking a hard-nosed business stance on the matter and I can appreciate that, despite how unjust I think it may be...but no matter what the reason...it was terribly executed. Expecting the people to be behind it was just bad, bad policy, whether you're talknig about the Iraqis or the Americans.
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I've posted an aerticle where it quotes troops THEMSELVES that don't believe in the current strategy. A link to Iraqi veterans and troops THEMSELVES that are against this war. Another link to FAMILIES of troops who do not support this war. Yet everyone seems to concentrate on troops who "share their view alone"?
Troops look at this war differently. You guys only want to concentrate on the troops who share YOUR view,and neglect the views of other troops and their families. Sorry,that frog don't fly!
Yes pitt, you only post articles that support YOUR view. you do the samething your are critcizing others of doing. why is your opinion right and everyone else is wrong? How many polls have you posted that takes a small sample, yet you apply it to the entire country? Based on your links alone, you'd have us think the entire military opposes the war. That is simply not the case.
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
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If yu actually bothered to try to look at the point I was trying to make,maybe it would sink in. My point is that not all troops share the same feeling or feel the same way. It's that damned simple. This thread was suggesting,at the very least,that soldiers feel our disagreeing with this war was wrong and that if we don't support the war,we don't support the troops. My examples were to show that different troops feel different ways. That no "one blanket statement" tells us "how the troops feel" because different troops feel different ways. In order to make that point,it is only logical to show examples of that. Get a frickin' grip.
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If yu actually bothered to try to look at the point I was trying to make,maybe it would sink in.
My point is that not all troops share the same feeling or feel the same way. It's that damned simple.
This thread was suggesting,at the very least,that soldiers feel our disagreeing with this war was wrong and that if we don't support the war,we don't support the troops.
My examples were to show that different troops feel different ways. That no "one blanket statement" tells us "how the troops feel" because different troops feel different ways.
In order to make that point,it is only logical to show examples of that. Get a frickin' grip.
there it is. from what iv seen, its about 30% against war in iraq, 10% for it, and abuot 60% just dont give a damn one way or another because its just easier that way.
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My point is that not all troops share the same feeling or feel the same way. It's that damned simple.
That was the point of the video to begin with. You were the one that took that to be a blanket statement that all troops were for the war. Troops having different opinions just like the rest of us. The video simply shows another view different from all the polls out there that try to say all the troops are against the war.
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all the polls out there that try to say all the troops are against the war.
I've never SEEN a poll,much less posted one that implies that "all the troops are against the war". All the polls I've ever seen show they have differing views.
But some of the posts that followed "the initial video" strongly suggested that "if you don't support the war,you don't and can't support the troops". Why don't you try reading the whole thread and my posts in that context? Nah,I should know better than to even suggest that.
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See,that type of straight forward honesty,I could have supported.
No kidding, DC for President!!!
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