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The spirit of the post is would we be better off with Mangini as the coach who is no longer calling the shots in the personnel department. Let's concede for a second that Mangini is still the coach but he gets no more drafts.
Problem here is: EM has shown that he won't PLAY players that are not HIS kind of guys....it's a power struggle waiting to happen
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I know you believe the guys aren't playing hard for him. Winning would cure that. If Mangini could have squeaked out a couple of wins early in the season, I think guys would have bought in, played harder, showed more passion. Losing is a disease that spreads quickly infecting everyone's morale. And there is such a fine line between losing and winning in the NFL. And confidence plays such a large part. If we got some breaks earlier in the season, would we have seen these guys play differently?
If my aunt had nuts she would be my uncle..."squeaked out"? We were not even close to do that it most games...hell, we squeaked one out against BUF thanks to Parrish's brain fart...BUF, as bad as they played that game, had over 100yds more than us....we were "in" the Cincy game thanks to Rogers blocking 4 (!!) p himself....and that got us to OT, not because of EM
#gmstrong
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It is piling on. But it's on his record. A few of these...ah who cares already. But taken in totality it does mean something.
Taken in totality it is a load of crap, as already pointed out by Ytown and a few others. You make a couple of key points that everyone and their brother are aware of and add a bunch of non-issues to make it look very bad. For what purpose? EM will more than likely be gone anyway with the way the top of the organizational structure was mismanaged, again. (Not EMs fault, this is Lerner's fault)
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I remember in the offseason when Mangini demanded that the video room be moved from the second floor to the first floor at a cost of a couple million dollars.
As already pointed out we don't give a damn about this, and I think I'm safe in using the word "we." New coaches/GMs make changes and if you've ever been in the complex it MAKES SENSE to have it where he moved it.
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Then many people in the front office were "layed off" due to financial issues.
That's assinine.
This was league-wide....this was NOT exclusive to the Browns and it was in the news and on this board that it was happening in LOTS of places. Just more crap on your part.
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I'll add another...a fan revolt occured.
Fan revolt???? 
I saw a revolt against the revolt.....that's what I saw. I saw people in the stands cheering their asses off. I didn't see a revolt, I saw a failed attempt at a revolt from a minority of people.
Quit piling on (your words) with crap. It aint necessary.
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so? where are his "pro" arguments Shep?
#gmstrong
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My third one is that he replaced marginal talent with marginal talent.
We all understand the KW and BE issues.
We understand the Mack rationale.
What I don't understand is the RT/RG moves and the linebacking Bowens/Davis McGinnest/Barton change.
The Carey move has no explanation
A lateral move when improvement is needed is not going to move the team forward.
While I agree that Mangini replaced marginal talent with marginal talent, my thinking is that he is first installing a system hence all of the leftovers from last year's Jets. Somebody on here already stated that most first year coaches do the same when they take over another team. He did gut this team for picks, but as a friend of mine stated who is a Bengals fan "maybe that is what it takes for you guys to be competetive in the near future." We have to admit one positive with Mangini's dictatorship, this team is a lot more disciplined this year as far as penalties go. I just hope he doesn't mess up next year's stock of picks and brings in some instant playmakers.
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so? where are his "pro" arguments Shep?
There aren't many, Shep was just debunking stupid reasons to think Mangini failed here. Moving the video room and firing people for financial reasons are some really stupid reasons to fire Mangini when there are plenty of other reasons.
you had a good run Hank.
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There is ONE way Mangini stays.
His name is Charlie Weis, offensive coordinator.
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While I agree that Mangini replaced marginal talent with marginal talent, my thinking is that he is first installing a system hence all of the leftovers from last year's Jets. Somebody on here already stated that most first year coaches do the same when they take over another team. He did gut this team for picks, but as a friend of mine stated who is a Bengals fan "maybe that is what it takes for you guys to be competetive in the near future." We have to admit one positive with Mangini's dictatorship, this team is a lot more disciplined this year as far as penalties go. I just hope he doesn't mess up next year's stock of picks and brings in some instant playmakers.
There is nothing in the past performance that would suggest that Mangini has the wherewithall to admit and correct his failings of the past.
I have come to view the Jets thing as a negative, not a positive. A player or 2 yes, but 11? I think it is an unwillingness on the part of Mangini to work with players that may not fit his personality mold. Hence, the Browns give up on recent draft choices in favor of a more established players that are viewed as role players.
I am bothered by the fact that collectively the Browns have one of the oldest rosters in the league. This fact has been pointed out by various sources and is without explanation for a team that has played so poorly.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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I am bothered by the fact that collectively the Browns have one of the oldest rosters in the league. This fact has been pointed out by various sources and is without explanation for a team that has played so poorly.
Thank you....I keep saying this too....hence my "LESS future to be excited about" remark. It's also a negative to take a step back while going with more vets....I'd expect more short term success by these moves, especially if those vets supposedly KNOW EM and his "system" or "process" or whatever HighSchool program he is running
Getting WORSE (from "bad" to begin with) while getting older is as bad as it gets...and that's simply unacceptable, no matter how you look at this
#gmstrong
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Don't hold your breath! He's hasn't posted anything but a pot shot for 8 years or so. I'm surprised I wasn't alerted to a board rule I was close to breaking!
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It is piling on. But it's on his record. A few of these...ah who cares already. But taken in totality it does mean something.
Taken in totality it is a load of crap, as already pointed out by Ytown and a few others. You make a couple of key points that everyone and their brother are aware of and add a bunch of non-issues to make it look very bad. For what purpose? EM will more than likely be gone anyway with the way the top of the organizational structure was mismanaged, again. (Not EMs fault, this is Lerner's fault)
It's unfair when it's not preceeded by the other major issues. Once you see the major infernos I think it's fair to also bring up the embers and the smoke. Now if I brought up that he likes to swirl his vanilla and his chocolate ice cream before eating it (which is foul) then that may be overdoing it.
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I remember in the offseason when Mangini demanded that the video room be moved from the second floor to the first floor at a cost of a couple million dollars.
As already pointed out we don't give a damn about this, and I think I'm safe in using the word "we." New coaches/GMs make changes and if you've ever been in the complex it MAKES SENSE to have it where he moved it.
You lose the ability to cry poor once you do this. Imagine going and buying a 70 inch flat screen then telling your woman that she can't have that terrible towel bedspread that you both wanted for Christmas.
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Then many people in the front office were "layed off" due to financial issues.
That's assinine.
This was league-wide....this was NOT exclusive to the Browns and it was in the news and on this board that it was happening in LOTS of places. Just more crap on your part.
Again....Don't spend a few million arbitrarily then put a lot of good people out of work because you don't have money to pay them.
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I'll add another...a fan revolt occured.
Fan revolt????
I saw a revolt against the revolt.....that's what I saw. I saw people in the stands cheering their asses off. I didn't see a revolt, I saw a failed attempt at a revolt from a minority of people.
Quit piling on (your words) with crap. It aint necessary.
When the team owner feels compelled to have a private meeting with fans leading a walkout on national TV, then yes I call that a revolt and successful getting your message across.
A revolt doesn't have to be pitchforks and flaming torches.
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When the team owner feels compelled to have a private meeting with fans leading a walkout on national TV, then yes I call that a revolt and successful getting your message across.
A revolt doesn't have to be pitchforks and flaming torches.
You mean that PR stunt for those two idiot frye-guys? That was a revolt?
A "successful" revolt would have been a "successful" stall-out of that kickoff, a stall-out that by all reports was a certifiable, 100% perfect dud.
To believe the fans actually won anything with that meeting is to eat that PR move hook, line, and sinker. All it did was make Lerner look more like a good guy. It didn't actually do anything to suggest the mob gained ground.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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They scored as many points as the Browns did that night!  In all seriousness they had the media's attention for a couple weeks. They bent Lerner's ear. They demonstrated that the fans would not put up with the status quo. I call that a success. And it set up the opportunity to succeed on a large scale by others if things would spiral down significantly further. Those two seem like dolts to me but I gotta give em props for trying something.
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It's interesting.............what you call a success for those baboons, I call a success for Lerner and his PR machine.
Why?
Because if what they were doing actually captured and aroused the fans, those fans would have taken Lerner's meaning as an affirmation that the protest idea was a valid one, thus leading to an actual walkout (or whatever the Hell they wanted to call it ). Yet when the game happened, nobody claimed to have seen a bunch of fans miss the kickoff, and in fact all the media reports I saw said the protest fell flat on it's face.
Yeah, it captured the media's attention, but so did all the meatheads in Detroit that showed up to games doing their best Unknown Comic impressions.
All it did was give Lerner the chance to earn some Brownie points (oh, wow, did I just go there? *L*) and since that time HE'S the one that came out a winner. The Frye-Puds just ended up looking like the spotlight-hungry idiots they are.
For me, the ultimate deciding factor on whether or not that stunt was a success for Lerner or for the fans was whether or not the power shifted to the protest stunt or if it shifted to Lerner. Since the Frye-Puds demanded that Lerner speak to all the fans and continued their walkout, yet saw neither come to fruition, I hardly call that a win for anyone but Lerner.
Sure, it caught the attention of the media, but no more than all the Mangini-bashing that's been happening this year.
Had it made Lerner make a fundamental shift in his thinking, it would have accomplished something, but it didn't. When I was yappin' about taking out an ad earlier in the year, my intent was to try and persuade Lerner to hire a football guy to call the shots. From where I'm sitting, I can take as much credit for Lerner wanting a football Czar as the Frye-morons, considering all the effect each of us had on his thinking, hehe.
As for Mangini.............No Czar is going to keep him. He had his chance. He blew it. He's taken some undeserved criticism for no other reason than it's become popular to hammer him without knowing all the facts, but that doesn't deflect how he completely butchered the QB situation, and how his short-term fixes flopped. His people were brought in, and his people were summarily fired before the season was half-over. It began with him and his moves, and when it ends, it'll be because of his people and his moves. There's no way he can stay.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Then many people in the front office were "layed off" due to financial issues.
That's assinine.
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This was league-wide....this was NOT exclusive to the Browns and it was in the news and on this board that it was happening in LOTS of places. Just more crap on your part.
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Again....Don't spend a few million arbitrarily then put a lot of good people out of work because you don't have money to pay them.
Heldawg old buddy, that is a crock...I can't believe you weren't paying attention last January when virtually every team in the league and the league itself cut staff.. this is a league wide issue and has NOTHING to do with mangini......
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When the team owner feels compelled to have a private meeting with fans leading a walkout on national TV, then yes I call that a revolt and successful getting your message across.
COMPELLED? he wasn't compelled to meet anyone, he chose to meet with them,,, Nice gesture.....
What would you say to him if he'd have ignored them?
There will always be a few fans that aren't satisfied.. the Browns could win a superbowl by 10 points and someone will say, they should have scored one more time... you know it... Lerner knows it.
Lerner played those two fools,,, what did they do after the meeting? they went on all the TV and Radio stations that would give them a few moments...
And you know what they said?
they said that lerner was a great guy, that he feels the fans pain, that he wants a winner as much as the fans do, that money isn't an issue, he'll spend what he needs to spend..
In short, they touted Lerner as a good Owner and a good person who just wants to win....
He played them,,, good for Randy...,
More importantly, they made fools of themselves by saying, until he comes out publically and tells the fans what they want to hear, they intended to continue the "revolt" as you put it.....
Hell, even that fizzled for them......
all in all, if your blaming Mangini for that, perhaps you should be thanking him... Randy probably is.... 
Point is, there are enough things to beat on Mangini about,, there isn't any need to embellish the list...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Can someone come up with a list of 15 things Mangini has done well?
1) Draft - Traded out of "crazy money" slot and saved a net of $70+ million in cap
2) Draft- nice picks with Mack, Moss, Maiava, and Davis
3) Cut dead weight and caps space by trading KW2 and BE. One bum can't get on the field and the other one can't catch a ball that hits him in the hands.
4) Practiced in the rain
5) Instilled discipline that is evident in our lack of penalties
6) Put in place a training camp that resulted in players actually knowing the plays - and even where to line up
7) Brought in Rob Ryan. This guy has struggled and had some bad moments but I still feel like he's a good DC and I'd like to see him stay. I get the impression that most other fans feel the same.
8) Went out of his way to keep star NT Rogers happy. Did such a great job that Rogers never missed any TC with a "hold out" and even said he and EM were "good".
9) Dealt with the Cribbs situation similarly. Cribbs never missed any TC.
10) Presented players with "opportunity sessions" that gives the back of the roster some face time with the coaches and a chance to improve and get on the field
11) Improved ST roster. For all the crap EM has taken about signing guys like Castanzo, no one seems to notice how he's making ST plays in every game.
12) Plays his rookies. James Davis was getting game reps early before his injury. Maiava has looked good and has even started. Mack has made every snap this year.
13) Accounability in TC, hotels, and in the game. This year was the first time I've seen a Browns TC that resembled the pace and tone of Steelers TC.
14) Retained virtually all key contributors from last year. Signed and traded for contributors.
15) Moved the mural to a more prominant location where it can be seen by more people (that one shouldn't really count but it's a tribute to some of the silly "faults" that were listed as if they were a big deal).
15b) Stockpiled draft picks like crazy.
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I mean seriously...who are you looking forward watching developing? Maiava? Trusnik? Veikune? Robo? Ventrone?
His draft and acquisitions just seem to be a parroting of what he's watched Belicheck do...only problem is he doesn't have the horses already in the stable.
The Patriots can quietly trade down and get a center...we didn't have that luxury.
The Patriots can gamble on an undersized high motor guy who can play some ST...we can't.
When we hired him, I took a wait and see approach. Since then, I would really struggle to name one thing he's done positively.
And he's following RAC -- the most inept game manager I've ever seen on our sidelines...you'd think he'd somehow look good by default.
NO ONE will advocate keeping him as coach. I just can't see it.
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The moment Lerner mentioned hiring a big time Prez/Czar and giving him control over personnel Mangini was toast. A guy hired to run the organization is going to bring in his people..........aka not Mangini.
I love getting to work early, before anyone else. It makes me feel like I have a jump on all the others. Likewise I hate being late as it makes me feel I'm behind.
For those two reasons no Czar is going to allow himself to feel behind or that anyone else has a jump on him by being here already. New Czar = New coach whom Czar has a previous relationship with. They don't have to have worked together before but he will want someone in whom he is very familiar.
New Czar = New Coach.
Lerner will have nothing to say in the matter. Which suits him to a "T".
#gmstrong
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Yep he was fired before the first interview took place.........it just won't happen until we actually hire someone...lol.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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j / c...
by bringing in a pres and a gm.... does that change or affect how a coach.....coaches ? Does that still allow a coach to have control over his cooridinators ? can a gm tell a coach...I want the D and O co`s 2 call their plays..or can EM still do as he pleases with the coaching staff ?
Seems to me that a guy whose suppose to have control over his coaching staff... will still coach the team the same with or with out a gm or pres....
Although.... coaches that have failed as a gm / hc.... taken away the gm spot then have succeded as only a HC... why is that ? And why is the Browns GM gone...and the team is still losing ?
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this fits... here http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2009/11/post_15.html Eric Mangini believes he will stay, looks forward to the new 'czar'
By Mary Kay Cabot
November 28, 2009, 9:03PM
Joshua Gunter, The Plain DealerEric Mangini believes that he and team owner Randy Lerner share the same vision for the Browns.
Browns coach Eric Mangini is convinced that he and team owner Randy Lerner share the same vision for the Browns and that Lerner will stick with him after this season despite a 1-9 record heading into Sunday's game in Cincinnati.
But Lerner is in the process of hiring a "serious, credible leader" to run the football operations, and who knows if the new "czar" will want to keep Mangini or start over with his own man.
Mangini, who's come under fire all season for things such as his practice methods and excessive fines, addressed his status and other issues in a wide-ranging interview with the Plain Dealer:
Q: How do you convince Lerner to keep you on after this season with such a poor record?
A: All the discussions we had were centered around building two different phases, short-term, and long-term, and understanding that anytime you build anything, it does take time.
Anytime you change, there's transition. There are growing pains. You look at the other clubs that are going through the same thing whether it be Kansas City or Detroit. I still believe that Randy and I share the same vision.
Q: How concerned are you that the new leader will clean house?
A: I look forward to us bringing someone in. Anybody that can help us, I embrace 100%. It's not about who has final authority or who gets credit. It's about how can we improve. I really do feel strongly about the things we do here everyday. Anyone that comes into any of our meetings will see good tesching, good coaching, and well thought-out plans.
Q: The perception on the street is that you threw your good friend (former GM)George Kokinis under the bus. What happened?
A: I'm not really at liberty to discuss it(because it's being litigated)but you never go into any situation thinking it's not going to work out. You work as hard as you possibly can to make it work and sometimes it just doesn't. It wasn't anybody's goal for it to be like this. It's not that I care any less for him or for his family. It's difficult personally and professionally to be a part of that. I knew (Jets GM)Mike Tannebaum really well for a long time before we worked together in New York. And when he had to make the change that he did, it was the same thing. Sometimes it's best for everyone to just move forward.
Q: What does that say about your ability to hire the right people?
A: You really work at trying to make the right decisions. If you look at the group of guys I hired in New York, they're either here or they were retained there. I don't think anybody from that staff is not working in football and it's a pretty good group of guys.
Q: If Lerner hired the GM without your input, would you be fine with that?
A: Yes. Obviously, Randy needs to be comfortable with whoever he brings in. It's a really important position for us. What's important to me is getting someone in place that allows us to grow. For me, it's 'when can you get here? when can we start rolling?' My whole thing is not about the structure or the distribution of responsibilities. It's about here's another really talented person that cares about the Browns and that wants to do nothing besides help us win.
I feel pretty comfortable being able to work with a lot of different types of people. One of the things Mike (Tannenbaum) really liked about me is that if they wanted me to try a player, I gave him a shot. It was empowering to the personnel guys, because they work so hard. An example here is (receiver)Jake Allen, who we signed off of Green Bay's practice squad. He's got a good shot to see the field this week.
Q: Are you actively involved in the GM search and do you have people in mind?
A: Me personally, no. I've been focusing on the preparation each week because that's the most important thing in the short term. I don't really have specific individuals in mind.
Q: Are you concerned that Lerner will succumb to media and fan pressure regarding your future? Afterall, you were here when Bill Belichick was despised?
A: No, because when I spend time with people in the community, I know I believe in the same things they do. They want a team that's tough and physical and smart and guys who care -- guys who want to be in Cleveland and represent what this organization was founded on. There's no easy way to do it. Sometimes you're going to take hits for the things you believe in, but if you change everry time you make an unpopular decision, you end up not believing in anything.
Questioning decisions or questioning the approach, I totally get that and I respect that. You just always hope that it's balanced and the reader decides where they stand on it.
Q: Are you OK with consultants Jim Brown and Bernie Kosar having Lerner's ear? Might that be bad for you?
A: I like both of those guys a lot. Jim's at the hotel the night before the game and I've had some great conversations with him. He'll come into the squad meeting the night before the game and I really want him to see what I stand for, so it's been fantastic. Same thing with Bernie. It's been good to sit down with him and say 'here was our thought process' because he speaks the language. I really get along well with both of those guys.
Q: You've been vilified all season long, especially by the national media. Any theories as to why?
A: "I don't know what the motivation is. I don't begrudge anybody their opinion. I respect that and that's their role. But at least give me the opportunity to express the other side. When it's people that have never met me or never even tried to reach out, that's a little bit tougher to take. Some of the things have become the fabric of every story, even if they're not true.
Q: For example?
A: "The whole (rookie running back) James Davis situation. It never happened. Neither guy had pads on. The league confirms it didn't happen. But it's constantly mentioned in all of those stories, that we let a guy in pads hit a guy not in pads. It becomes part of the landscape, and it's not true. I really believe in the opportunity period. We've had so many success stories come out of it, including guys like Jason Trusnik, who's starting for us. And now it's portrayed as something negative
Q: What about your excessive fines, such as $1,701 for not paying for a $3 bottle of water at the team hotel?
A: The whole back story wasn't something I was going to get into, because I didn't want to say who it was or what the background of that was. But it was something that had been happening chronically with this particular player over a period of years. The rules were clearly articulated. I can see why if you just read that on the surface, it does look excessive. I don't want to take anyone's money. I just want them to follow the rules.
Q: Would you have cut Braylon Edwards after the bar incident if you couldn't have traded him to the Jets?
A: It was a culmination of things. He needed a fresh start. If there wasn't a serious opportunity where there was value, well, I wasn't faced with that. Now, Jason Trusnik is starting for us, Chansi Stuckey is developing and we still have two draft picks coming (a 3rd and 5th).
Q: What about the perception that players hate playing for you?
A: I don't know where it comes from. All of those guys from New York came here and they know exactly how I am. Those are the same guys that will send text messages or call to see how I am. When I got fired, I was there until seven o'clock at night meeting with player after player or people from the organization. It's hard because when you install a new system of how you do things, whether it's the tempo of practice or the level of accountability or the time involved with meetings, there's an adjustmnt and if you've been able to do it one way for a long time, you may not see the value in doing it differently. Some people don't want to accept the changes.
Eric Barton and I didn't get along at first, but we sat down and talked. I couldn't be happier with his growth and development as a leader.
Q: How challenging was the situation you inherited?
A: There was a lot of money committed in bonuses that you couldn't do anything about. We didn't have many draft picks. We had a high pick, and if you draft that high, you commit a ton of resources to one player -- and that's fine if you really have a conviction on that one player and you think he's going to be an impact player for a long time. If you look at the guys we've released, where have they ended up?
Q: Would you make the same draft-day trade again?
A: I feel good about the trade. I think that Alex Mack is going to be a good player for a long time. Kenyon Coleman's been more productive than some of the ends that were drafted. James Davis was part of that and we'll see where he ends up. But when you start with four picks and a lot of money committed on the cap, there's not a ton of opportunity to dramatically change the composition of the roster. We'll see how that trade plays out over time.
Q: Can Brady Quinn be your quarterback of the future?
A: I was excited about what he did last week and I think a lot of people are excited about it. What I'm looking for is to keep building on that. We've had a lot of opportunities, but to not turn the ball over, to hit the open receivers and to catch the balls that are there, that's huge.
Q: Do you regret benching him after 10 quarters?
A: No. The competition was close. DA had made a lot of progress and I was happy with the way he worked, his approach, his professionalism, the way he handled the news. I felt it was my responsibility to the group and to him to give it a shot.
Q: Offensive coordinator Brian Daboll has come under fire. Is he the right man for the job?
A: I think he's going to be an outstanding coordinator. To run a no-huddle offense the way we run it, that's not easy to do. It's not easy for the quarterback, it's not easy for the players, it's not easy for the playcaller -- and we've run it with very few procedure penalties. That's disciplined.
Q: Considering your open-door policy, how disturbing was it that team captain Jamal Lewis went to the media before he came to you with complaints about the practice tempo?
A: It's hard for some guys to walk up here. But I'm not going to go 'get out of here, you're complaining.' If you have enough character and strength to come in here and say 'this is how I feel,' I respect that. It's not easy. As more people do it, it'll be understood that it can be done.
Q: Is that why Jerome Harrison felt comfortable approaching you about being inactive last week?
A: Yes. It wasa really conversation. It was probably overdue, but it was important. He's done the things that I've asked him to do this week and he's going to be active for the game."
Q: Are you willing to re-do Josh Cribbs' contract?
A: We've been moving forward and it's just something we've kept internal. Josh knows how I feel about him and I think it will all be resolved. I don't know what the timeline. The goal is finding a formula that works for everyone, because he's a unique player.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Quote:
Q: Can Brady Quinn be your quarterback of the future?
A: I was excited about what he did last week and I think a lot of people are excited about it. What I'm looking for is to keep building on that. We've had a lot of opportunities, but to not turn the ball over, to hit the open receivers and to catch the balls that are there, that's huge.
Q: Do you regret benching him after 10 quarters?
A: No. The competition was close. DA had made a lot of progress and I was happy with the way he worked, his approach, his professionalism, the way he handled the news. I felt it was my responsibility to the group and to him to give it a shot.
He doesn't like Brady as his QB, is what get from this. Both question are about Brady he talks about how good Anderson is, and how Brady needs to:
"not turn the ball over, to hit the open receivers" something DA did in every game. I think if EM is still here next year, he will trade Brady.
Quote:
Q: Offensive coordinator Brian Daboll has come under fire. Is he the right man for the job?
A: I think he's going to be an outstanding coordinator. To run a no-huddle offense the way we run it, that's not easy to do. It's not easy for the quarterback, it's not easy for the players, it's not easy for the playcaller -- and we've run it with very few procedure penalties. That's disciplined.
Thats the best thing you can say?
"we've run it with very few procedure penalties. That's disciplined."
The run, run , pass, punt - offense, Three offensive plays without a penalty, big deal. 
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Q: Is that why Jerome Harrison felt comfortable approaching you about being inactive last week?
A: Yes. It wasa really conversation. It was probably overdue, but it was important. He's done the things that I've asked him to do this week and he's going to be active for the game."
Something about this seems odd...
Go Browns !!!!
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Legend
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Sweet sorrow
Forward retreat
Make haste slowly
Living dead
Great Depression
Pretty ugly
Minor crisis
Crash landing
Jumbo Shrimp
Deafening silence
Mangini Next Year
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 No talk about actual performance, especially HIS guys, more about "less penalties" (not even that much as I remember 1 poster laying down the hard cold facts), "discipline" and how great guys are and he gets along with them....go get some therapy Eric cause that's not what you are paid to do He didn't want to talk to media since he got here...now we get exclusive interviews every 2nd day...more spineless action from the man who tries to sell his "believes" and "process" while constantly undermining those by his actions....what a sad hypocrite
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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This guy does not talk or act like someone who is going to be gone ... one of the reasons I started the thread.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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This guy does not talk or act like someone who is going to be gone ... one of the reasons I started the thread.
I'd say he's in the same boat as all of us...he don't know a thing about 2010 yet.
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This guy does not talk or act like someone who is going to be gone ... one of the reasons I started the thread.
That's because he NEVER ACTS the way he TALKS...he's delusional...again, look at his ACTIONS not words....guy avoided media as if he were the king of france...now he comes hobbling their way like a little lost dog = he knows he's about to lose his job...so he yet again he betrays his own "beliefs"
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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by bringing in a pres and a gm.... does that change or affect how a coach.....coaches ? Does that still allow a coach to have control over his cooridinators ? can a gm tell a coach...I want the D and O co`s 2 call their plays..or can EM still do as he pleases with the coaching staff ?
If it's done as it should be the head coach will have complete control over all of that. Anything else is hand-tying the coach and I don't know many coaches who would hire on and give up that control.
That's just one of the ways Savage undermined RAC. Here, you are going to get along and work with this guy. If you can make it work great. If not, then it's on you and I'll throw you under the bus for it. Oh, and I'll tell you who will play the QB position as well. And regarding the roster, it doesn't matter what scheme you want to run I'm bringing in players who don't necessarily fit what you want to do and you'll have to make that work too. Again, if you can then great, if not then it's all on you and you'll soon get tired of getting run over by that bus. In the end I'll fire you and bring in someone who's plan fits the players I've brought in.
The head coach has to have complete control over all those things. Anything else is a recipe for disaster.
Regarding player acquisition, the coach makes the plan for the schemes and the type of player he needs to fit his plans and the GM is to go and get players to fit that. The GM sets the roster in that way and has final say in all roster decisions. The coach then decides the depth chart as he sees fit.
We can't have any more backbiting or someone with an agenda which makes it impossible to be on the same page.
#gmstrong
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Eric Mangini believes that he and team owner Randy Lerner share the same vision for the Browns.
Uh, Eric, uh, everybody shares the same vision for the Browns. Where we differ is in how to make that vision a reality, you know, the plan. The process.
#gmstrong
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The process.
When I read this, I start hearing "gut feeling" playing in my brain. Ugh.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Bud Shaw joins jumps on the Can Mangini train with Pat McManaman (ABJ). Expect more riders in the next few weeks ...
16 games with Mangini is more than enough: Bud Shaw
By Bud Shaw, The Plain Dealer
December 04, 2009, 8:13PM
A bad football team has become historically awful in its first year under Eric Mangini. And that's hardly the only reason why he should be one and done as Browns coach.
George Kokinis leaving the building with half a season remaining and with more people claiming Elvis sightings than general manager sightings.
Not one but two befuddled quarterbacks.
Jamal Lewis calling out Mangini for failing to take care of the "crops" not too long before taking a concussed and early retirement.
(Lewis retreated from those words. But he did so because he thought the coverage made him look as if he resented working hard.)
The debacle against Chicago/Green Bay/Detroit/all of the above.
In place of highlights, the FOX, CBS and ESPN studio analysts providing a laugh track at the mere mention of the Browns.
An offense reduced to its latest gimmick. What's the Browns' identity this deep into the season? The direct snap to Cribbs? Or Cribbs-to-Quinn?
The APB for Brian Robiskie, who can't get on the field ahead of Jake Allen. Claimed on waivers on Nov. 18, Allen was apparently rewarded for his hard work. All 10 days of it.
Shouldn't a 1-10 team be about developing young players? Remember when trading Braylon Edwards was going to mean an opportunity for Robiskie?
It's doubtful Eric Mangini's clipboard contains the blueprint for turning around the moribund Browns franchise.Maybe Mangini believes that Robiskie is developing on the sideline. After all, he swore that's one reason he put Brady Quinn back behind center.
The day of fantasy offensive football in Detroit aside, Quinn was better a year ago. Derek Anderson, too.
One defense of Mangini is that this is a young, talent-starved team. And that he bit the bullet hard with the owner's blessing to stockpile 11 picks for next year. Only the stockpiling is true.
The Browns are hardly young. One reason they're talent-starved is because the head coach didn't hit on the draft and didn't capitalize on roster turnover.
Now that the GM is long gone, how many candidates will line up to work with Mangini? Anyone feel comfortable with the draft day motherlode in Mangini's hands?
With five games remaining, the fear should be that Lerner won't land a football man with enough clout -- like Mike Holmgren -- to tell him his organization needs a complete fresh start, coach included.
Lerner might see the need to clear the decks himself if he considers a few simple questions.
Have his customers bought into Mangini? Have the players, other than the modestly skilled ex-Jets acquired to spread the gospel? What about Mangini would entice free agents?
Lerner lost GM candidates who either specifically didn't want to work with Mangini or wanted a say in the coaching hire. With any luck, he already sees the folly in that approach.
You've heard the argument for bringing Mangini back. The culture needed changing. The Browns are more disciplined -- the league's least penalized team. Who thought they would be good?
But step back and take an accident-scene gawk at what they've become.
They narrowly avoided another blackout Sunday. Oakland and Jacksonville will be much harder sells.
As will Browns fans come next year.
Think about it this way. Chris Palmer got fired after two seasons as the expansion coach of a runaway train. One year for the architect of this caboose seems just about right.
For previous columns visit cleveland.com/budshaw
© 2009 cleveland.com.
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I like it. Guy is pretty accurate.
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This guy stole my arguments I made over the last 6 months on this board....he didn't even leave out 1 
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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All Pro
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Haha, I was going to say, "Django, is that you?"
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Shaw must have not been able to come up with a better story. This one is all-but written in stone. He's just a little late to this party...............
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I really can't wait until this season is over and we can begin again... I'd like to begin without mangini but i'm not sure it will happen that way..
we've heard that Holmgren is the guy that lerner is going for... and he's been quoted as saying 1 year isn't enough (paraphrasing) in relation to zorn in Seattle.. will that apply to mangini if he comes here? dunno..
Will most other candidates for the Czar position feel the same?
I was convinced that mangini would be gone at the end of the season.. now, I just don't know what to think.....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Just another Bozo...my pet name for so called sports journalists.
A bad football team has become historically awful in its first year under Eric Mangini. And that's hardly the only reason why he should be one and done as Browns coach.
And then basically he goes and sites that exactly as the reason.
He didn't really hit on much that had any merit...the play of QBs was telling.
We've already stated we are getting a GM possibly a Czar who will also hire a GM...2 people who will wield more power regarding PERSONNEL than Mangini...yet he keeps stating as probably the most compelling reason on not bringing Mangini back is in trusting him with the stockload of picks we will have.
What part of bringing in a GM doesn't this bozo get???
And how is this draft a failure. Cause of Robiskie...again a Bozo
Mack, MoMas, 3A, Davis all have produced. Robo still a good prospect. DV who the heck knows about him??? Francies still developing and has talent.
But according to this Bozo Mangini's draft was suppose to bring talent in here to CARRY THE IMPACT LOAD this year...What a bozo.
There are questions about Mangini...the Kokinis thing who really knows exactly what transpired? Most of his mistakes if any revolve around Daboll and the Offense. I do think he failed the Browns with the QB competition but not much else.
Lewis calling out Mangini regarding practices??? LOL and this bozo acting like he was vindicated or something cause he is now on the IR because of a concussion received in a GAME  When really all Lewis really exclaimed was FRUSTRATION cause the BEEF was not that we were practicing too hard....but we were Practicing HARD and NOT SEEING THE POSITIVE RESULTS!! Thats called frustration brought on by losing.
Odds are the new Power Guy will not stick with Mangini...and there is no proof to the claim by this BOZO that because of Mangini we cannot or DID NOT get a GM we would have wanted. Fact is we had Kokinis in our sights as soon as we hired Mangini...Pioli interviewed for the PROGRAM POWER GUY and lost out to Mangini...there was no thought of him being our GM after we hired Mangini...and we interviewed Pioli before the HIRE.
Just another Bozo with Bozo ideas.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
Shaw must have not been able to come up with a better story. This one is all-but written in stone. He's just a little late to this party...............
Yeah for the most part.
And he'll probably write almost the exact same column in Week 17.
Overall though I find Shaw to be a very good writer, witty and insightful. JMHO *shrug*.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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The story line has been written to death...will it play out is all I care about.
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Some of this story is just piling on. For cripes sake!
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j/c
It will be interesting to hear what comes out after he's fired.
The media absolutely loathes the man.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Mangini and Next Year
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