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Sorry, Lampy, but there are just too many examples of recent QB's who've sat where it did nothing but help their development.
Sure there are plenty of example, but some athletes - and again, it was only an idea - are better served by just playing, seeing live bullets, the speed of the NFL.... & gaining experience.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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What most people want to see, including myself, is some stability, some consistency from the QB position. The problem is that we haven't had stability or consistency anywhere within this organization.
So are you saying that a player cannot be evaluated on his skill since the organization hasn't had any stability? You can't put that player's play in a vacuum so to speak and evaluate said player on aspects that don't have anything to do with anyone other than himself?
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I think that's a pretty good explanation there 'tabber, because I can relate to it somewhat. I was never an athletic wonder, unless you wondered why I bothered playing  , but I did play some baseball and know what you mean about that FAT pitch and how at first the excitement of knowing "I got this one good!" only to whiff, pop up or ground out. I did get past that and can see how the same thing can be happening to BQ. The game is faster, his QR's rarely run great routes and get open so when it's there it's a bit of a surprise and an exciting evert. Hopefully you're right and he'll get comfortable with it. The sooner the better.
#gmstrong
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I agree. I think he's starting to "see it", too. 
I asked that one twice in here already I think: WHAT? What do you guys see? I have yet to read a good argument for the guy (and I know why I haven't gotten even an attempt of an answer on this one)
Now EO's latest spin: he has improved ("starting to see it") that's why he sucks even worse....  reminds me of Cameron's "failing forward" philosophy in MIA 2 years ago...we know how THAT turned out
I know a desperate argument when I see one (this thread is full of them) and they always have the same pattern, which I call "X-Factor" or "conspiracy" arguments (mac's "we don't know because of Coaches", lampy's "we don't know because he hasn't gotten enough starts and has crappy supporting cast" and now EO's "seeing it, thus whiffing")...always happens when there's no empirical or rational argument to be made FOR something/or someone you REALLY REALLY wish to be so and so.....so you take "Factor X" and model your world/arguments around it
Easy logical problem with those kind of arguments: You can't take an unknown (false) as premise (X's) as ground for a conclusion because the conclusion automatically will be deducted from this false premise
You might as well live in La-La land and believe in Santa Clause then...."say it ain't so" is NOT an argument, it's delusional desperation...and I see lots of that in here
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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reminds me of Cameron's "failing forward" philosophy in MIA 2 years ago...we know how THAT turned out
we dont know how that turned out because Parcells was brought in the next year and brought in his own coach
Cameron then went on to Baltimore and had success with a rookie QB with an aging WR.
Django, do you think DA should be starting. I havnt seen that arguement in a while. Pretty much since we all saw the results of him starting and having the 34th best QB rating in the NFL.
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I said I don't care who finishes the season at QB...I just want to make sure BQ does not hit his escalators (and I'm really nervous here: if it's 75% couldn't he hit it starting 11 out of 16, playing in 12?)....but I'm ok with him finishing the season. I just don't want him to start the next one
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Unfortunately, it's likely he'll start next season.
The one way he doesn't is if we (more unfortunately) draft a QB high.
I don't see whoever comes in being enamored with him...but it's more than possible they stick with him while tending to other areas.
Personally, I've always been a proponent of setting up a dummy back there to take the hits while you build your team. That's why I was never really dismayed at the Frye pick...he ran around the field enough to entertain, and was taking the lumps while we built a team...
...problem is we never built a team.
I really don't want another year of Quinn...but it looks probable.
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Personally, I've always been a proponent of setting up a dummy back there to take the hits while you build your team.
Are you available?
Just messing with you.
There are some dummies on the board who I wouldn't mind seeing taking some hits. LOL ... 
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Personally, I've always been a proponent of setting up a dummy back there to take the hits while you build your team.
Are you available?
For that kind of money?
Hell, yeah.
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Even the backups in the NFL are in "Republican" money ...... 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Third string QB has always been my dream job.
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Third string QB has always been my dream job.
Well it's perfect. You seldom play (if at all, especially if I could be in Indy behind Manning unless I HAVE to hold out for better weather) and just travel with the team, hang out, and get paid way more than you deserve. What's not to love? I always said third string QB is my dream job, too.
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
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There are some dummies on the board who I wouldn't mind seeing taking some hits. LOL
Dude... I don't care if you were aiming that quip at certain particular posters, or just making a general comment...
it was funny as hell.
thanks.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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I sit back and read this board more than I post and I have seen a trend that just stinks of agenda. Our QBs have a good game, the DT gurus fade away, but let our QBs have a bad game and the agenda driven hyenas are out like the pack that has not eaten in a month.
What most people want to see, including myself, is some stability, some consistency from the QB position. The problem is that we haven't had stability or consistency anywhere within this organization. We have been back for 11 years now. We've had 6 different guys lead the team in receiving, 7 different guys lead the team in rushing, at least a dozen QBs start games, 5 different head coaches, 8 different offensive coordinators... and on and on and on.
Yet the DT gurus (good name by the way) constantly place the bulk of the blame on the QB..... and the agenda part you speak of is most apparent when we lose and they blame the QB but we win and they say we did so in spite of the QB...
DC...you will notice that the gurus did not respond to you...but I will.
Is there anyone that believes the Donovan McNabb we saw last night, would be the same Donovan McNabb if he had been drafted by the Browns and went through 8 different OCs which means 8 different playbooks? Probably at least 5 different QB coaches too...
The Browns would have ruined McNabb too.
Do our "most knowledgeable" even know how many OCs Quinn has had?...or will their agendas even allow them to ask that question of themselves?...Fortunately for Quinn, he has had only 2 OCs...Chudzinski and Daboll...Anderson has had 4 different offensive coordinators .
If you were a young QB in the draft this year, you would be hoping and praying that you would not be drafted by the Browns, where this franchise has done a better job of ruining QBs than developing them.
I wonder when the Browns owner/GM/Czar will understand that the most important coaching hire they will make is the offensive coordinator. How many first time OCs have the Browns had? Time that the Browns stop being the proving grounds for OCs.
DC ..is on target, pointing out that the Browns have failed to provide their QBs the stability needed to help them succeed. It is time that the Browns stop being the proving grounds for young, inexperienced, unqualified coaches and coordinators.
IMO, the Browns need to find a HC who has been a successful OC and let him pick his OC understudy or find an experienced, successful OC and pay him top dollar so he stays in Cleveland for a long time.
My preference...hire a HC who has been a successful OC...jmho...mac
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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BQ - right now his timing is off at times. What I mean and will try to explain is that he is starting to see things...read things - when he does so he is literally getting excited ( I think he needs some of DA's herbal treatment from Oregon )
and is speeding up the process...as in, "I SEE IT" and then instead of remaining relaxed and just letting it happen - he rushes his throws and the timing of his footwork if off (rythem...if only I could spell it, but I do got it )
But the good news is this is not a major flaw...its not automatic to be rid of...but its something more predicated on experience than just something he can't do. And yes, it might come in the form of "PWANG" its there...or it might come in Two steps forward One step back fashion.
As for the long passes....right now they have been drilling and implanting a seed I believe for the future in BQ - that of NO TURNOVERS!!! Not cemented as the everyday QB for a given amount of time - he is too concious of this rather than having it imbedded in his game. But its theres...that is why he's been missing a lot on some long passes that are not wide open (Lions game Wide Open) because he tries so hard to put it at a spot that ONLY HIS WR can catch or nobody will catch it....All too often it goes out of bounds to the right.
JMHO - that over anxious thing I was trying to describe happening with BQ as he is starting to "SEE IT". Maybe if some of you have played some kind of Ball...Baseball, Softball, heck even wiffle ball. You know when a fat pitch comes to you and your EYES GET ALL BIG and you get so anxious to kill it and hit a homerun...and instead what occurs is a big WHIFF!!! And you get so upset and wish you had that pitch again. Well thats what is happening to BQ right now...he's starting to "SEE IT" and he is getting all excited and its throwing his timing off. And he's whiffing. The more reps he get...the more he "SEES IT" the more COMFORTABLE he will be in that position and like that fat pitch he will wait on it and then strike....Same thing with his throws...I think he's pretty close and sometimes it is as simple as that
EO...excellent post..
Many on this board seem to dismiss or not understand how much of a QBs game is played from the neck up. The "comfort zone" needed to play well at QB is a mental thing and what your QB is being taught by your QB coach, OC and HC plays a part. Just how much the "don't throw a pick" message might be affecting Quinn's play would take a professional psychologist to figure out.
DC pointed out what a terrible job the Browns have done at providing a stable base for our QBs to learn and progress from...pointing out the number of coaching and coordinator changes the Browns have made. The nearly constant changing of offensive coordinators has been a factor in the development of the Browns young QBs.
I will throw in, the "quality" of the coaching our QBs have endured is another factor. The Browns might be #1 in the NFL at hiring 1st time offensive coordinators. While the Browns launched the careers of young, inexperienced offensive coordinators, our QBs and offensive production have suffered.
Simply stopping the coaching and OC changes is not the answer..keeping the coaching staff and coordinators we now have is not the answer either, IMO...its not that simple.
Focusing on the QB position, this franchise needs to understand the importance of "hiring the best", experienced offensive coordinator and offensive coaches, Randy Lerner's millions can buy. Once the Browns find them, paying them top dollar to stay with the Browns, must be a priority for this franchise if it wants to provided better stability for our QBs. There is no salary cap on coaches and the Browns need to take advantage of that factor.
While I'm focusing on mainly the QB position and the offense, the entire team needs the same kind of stability...stability that has been lacking since the Browns returned in 99.
EO...getting back to your post, I understand what you mean when you say Quinn can "SEE IT" but at times, he gets over anxious and rushes his throw, missing some wide open receivers.
Your reference to hitting a ball with a bat is a perfect example. Surely most Browns fans can understand that feeling and excitement they have felt when they are about to swing at that perfect pitch...only to swing and miss.
I never played QB but I have played some basketball and what your trying to describe is like having an open jump shot that you have hit in practice hundreds of times, only to chock in a real game and blow that same shot. It all comes down to relaxing and allowing your body to complete the physical movement to complete what your eyes see and your brain relays to your body (muscles).
As someone said, Quinn needs REPS, REPS, REPS... so he can find that comfort zone that will allow him to throw accurate passes.
I would hope that those who have played sports would understand what EO is describing. It seems like an easy task to complete from our seats in front of the TV, but there is so much more that goes into throwing a complete pass in the NFL...so many factors some may be ignoring, due to agenda or mind set.
jmho...mac
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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LOL, right now I would just like to see Trent Dilfer from Quinn(which is funny because Dilfer hates Quinn). The Quinnbots want Drew Brees.
Keep on believing, maybe one day, it will come true and we will all be happy.
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What I see is a team with no legitimate receiving threats, no legitimate running game, and only half of an offensive line. Thus, I am simply unwilling to flush Quinn at this point, as putting some talent around him may do wonders. Having said that, I am hardly enamored with BQ, but would rather not draft a QB at all in this draft (unless it is round 5 or something), we have way too much of a talent gap to overcome at other positions.
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What I see is a team with no legitimate receiving threats, no legitimate running game, and only half of an offensive line. Thus, I am simply unwilling to flush Quinn at this point, as putting some talent around him may do wonders. Having said that, I am hardly enamored with BQ, but would rather not draft a QB at all in this draft (unless it is round 5 or something), we have way too much of a talent gap to overcome at other positions.
Give me a break. Sorry, we do have recieving threats, young, but threats. Throw the ball to them(which Quinn struggles to do) and we see some action. They are not perfect, but they make plays if given the chance.
Oh, we don't have half a line either, we have 2 guys on the line and the rest can blow.
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The ironic thing is: All the negatives about Quinn are all the concerns we saw when he was having his annual meltdowns against USC, and in the bowl games (ie big games against someone other than Navy and Purdue). With the exception that he doesn't pout and have nuclear mental sideline breakdowns like he used to, he still looks like the same player.
All the negatives about Anderson are the same exact things I saw when Boise State put 50 on Oregon State (Anderson provided Boise with a great deal of help that night) a few years ago. He's the exact same player.
Every negative I read, is everything we saw time and time again. All your arguments about our team, line, offense, organization are true and relevant.
However, the eye test will prove out.
Dawgtalker board psychology -- When you want someone to shut up do you just tag them with "you have an agenda"?
Is that how I do it? Is that all it takes?
Barry Bonds Check
Roger Clemens Check
Mark McGuire Check
Lance Armstrong Check
71-79 Steelers Taboo
(Lets pretend it didn't happen.)
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Dawgtalker board psychology -- When you want someone to shut up do you just tag them with "you have an agenda"?
No matter what side of the fence one is on, if you don't waiver from your opinion in the face of self-appointed hard-liners you have an agenda.
It's an age-old tactic that falls flat, as I'd say only 1% of posters actually use it in the connotation people attempt to suggest.
The ironic part is that the term "agenda" doesn't even apply, making it that much more comical. In fact, the posters who use the term "agenda" really aren't discrediting anyone. It has about the same affect as going "Nuh-uh!" 
If people are going to try and play the head games, at least use the right term. It's HIDDEN agenda.
99% debate, albeit by using forms that favor their own position. That's not agenda. That's debate. About the only people I've ever seen in the history of this board that truly are HIDDEN-agenda-driven were guys named Soup (regarding running the ball 30+ times a game to ensure a win no matter what ) and this ass name LeslieDawg from the old board who went down with the ship carrying Tim Couch's dirty jock strap wrapped around his chin. When Couch was dumped, he fired off with a bunch of insults then left as well.
Beyond that, there's no agenda. It's just all debate.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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It's an age-old tactic that falls flat, as I'd say only 1% of posters actually use it in the connotation people attempt to suggest.
It seems to get some people bent, even emotional. Oh no, don't tag me with the dreaded "agenda" label!!! "Age-old tactic" Tactic being the key word.
There are some guys from the old board that I miss.
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I have to say that your post has Agenda written all over it. 
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The ironic thing is: All the negatives about Quinn are all the concerns we saw when he was having his annual meltdowns against USC, and in the bowl games (ie big games against someone other than Navy and Purdue). With the exception that he doesn't pout and have nuclear mental sideline breakdowns like he used to, he still looks like the same player.
So what we're seeing from Quinn right now is the same thing we saw from him in college against USC when the talent of his entire team, man to man, was far inferior to the competition?
Go figure.
#gmstrong
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Give me a break. Sorry, we do have recieving threats, young, but threats. Throw the ball to them(which Quinn struggles to do) and we see some action. They are not perfect, but they make plays if given the chance.
Care to names those young receiving threats? Are you talking about the two rookies - one of whom is rarely active and one who has trouble reading the blitz for route adjustments?
Or the other young guy who just joined our team about the sixth game of the year?
Or the most recent young guy who joined our team a week ago Sunday?
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Oh, we don't have half a line either, we have 2 guys on the line and the rest can blow.
So...you acknowledge that BQ has only two linemen in front of him yet you refuse to acknowledge that such a thing might have some bearing on his potential for success?
Perhaps you were being sarcatic and I missed it...because your comments in that post support the reasons given as to why BQ should be given more time.
There are legit reasons to question BQs future in the NFL. There are legit reasons to understand why he has struggled in the NFL as well.
So far...I've only read posts from you that support giving him more time...and oddly enough...I don't think you meant your comments that way.
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The ironic thing is: All the negatives about Quinn are all the concerns we saw when he was having his annual meltdowns against USC, and in the bowl games (ie big games against someone other than Navy and Purdue). With the exception that he doesn't pout and have nuclear mental sideline breakdowns like he used to, he still looks like the same player.
So what we're seeing from Quinn right now is the same thing we saw from him in college against USC when the talent of his entire team, man to man, was far inferior to the competition?
Go figure.
It wasn't just superior competition...he often struggled against even mediocre teams...and always feasted on the weak.
I can't wait until we're rid of him...but am willing to suffer through another season or two of his play in order to avoid drafting a QB prematurely.
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The ironic thing is: All the negatives about Quinn are all the concerns we saw when he was having his annual meltdowns against USC, and in the bowl games (ie big games against someone other than Navy and Purdue). With the exception that he doesn't pout and have nuclear mental sideline breakdowns like he used to, he still looks like the same player.
So what we're seeing from Quinn right now is the same thing we saw from him in college against USC when the talent of his entire team, man to man, was far inferior to the competition?
Go figure.
There is an element of truth in that statement, look at ND the year after Quinn left.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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I have to say that your post has Agenda written all over it.
That's what I'd expect someone with an agenda to say
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quinn looks like a QB on the sideline........he looks like a QB in front of the camera.........he looks like a QB in the huddle............he looks like a QB at the LOS............and he looks like a QB on the drop.........But after that, when it comes to throwing the ball more than 10-15 yards down the field, he's no QB, not an NFL one right now.
Some quotes are timeless...
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If people are going to try and play the head games, at least use the right term. It's HIDDEN agenda.
Toad...but some are so poor at hiding their "hidden agenda", it's easier to call it what it is..."agenda".
The "agenda" I speak of is more like a "political agenda", where an individual or group try to formulate an opinion and seek support for their position, thus they have an "agenda". Maybe we should call it a "sports agenda"...or a "Brady Quinn agenda"...or more accurately, an "anti Brady Quinn agenda"..
The fact is, some have had an "anti Brady Quinn agenda" since the day he was drafted...that might be called a "smelly agenda"...
Anyone believe that if the Browns brought Jason Campbell in to play QB for Mangini and Daboll, his play would improve?
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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I have to say that your post has Agenda written all over it.
That's what I'd expect someone with an agenda to say
Well played my friend, Well Played.
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Quinn looks like a QB on the sideline........he looks like a QB in front of the camera.........he looks like a QB in the huddle............he looks like a QB at the LOS............and he looks like a QB on the drop.........But after that, when it comes to throwing the ball more than 10-15 yards down the field, he's no QB, not an NFL one right now.
Some quotes are timeless...
So, what's the difference between "smelly agenda" and someone who called a shot because they understand the game, and was proven to be spot on?
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So, what's the difference between "smelly agenda" and someone who called a shot because they understand the game, and was proven to be spot on?
The 1st group gets laughed at and doesn't post anymore (Coach, soup, Diam...although Diam really doesn't belong in that class and I wish he was posting again: hey Diam, it's ok you missed on BQ....no big deal, we need you here ), the 2nd gets hated by EO and Shep and mods try to ban them at all costs (Vers)
But there's another group...the "rhetorically gifted hidden agenda" posters...they get all the love (deservedly) because they are telling the cold hard truth nicer (ddub, Toad)
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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/me bows.......
I simply live to serve 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,069
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,069 |
Vers is still alive?
Banned? Hated?
WTF?
Barry Bonds Check
Roger Clemens Check
Mark McGuire Check
Lance Armstrong Check
71-79 Steelers Taboo
(Lets pretend it didn't happen.)
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,802
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,802 |
Quote:
*** You are ignoring this user ***
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,306
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,306 |
Quote:
/me bows.......
I simply live to serve
Then fetch me a beer, and hurry up and forget about your crazy QB fetish.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,069
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,069 |
Great responses to that one.
How about this one. Can you explain why some guys get their panties all wet over one internet rumor, and start declaring the rumor as their future Christmas present, and then the next minute they act all high and mighty and circle the wagons around another poster and dismiss his more widely documented points (that don't appear to fit their little world view) as nothing but internet rumor?
What's that called?
Liberalism?
Barry Bonds Check
Roger Clemens Check
Mark McGuire Check
Lance Armstrong Check
71-79 Steelers Taboo
(Lets pretend it didn't happen.)
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Also, it's not an "internet rumor."
It has been confirmed by the Browns that Holmgren is in town meeting with Randy Lerner. How is that an internet rumor?
I'm not disagreeing with you on your other point. Just saying that the Holmgren story is not a rumor.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,810
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,810 |
Stunning silence from the agenda crowd...simple question...why no answers?...to this?
Anyone believe that if the Browns brought Jason Campbell in to play QB for Mangini and Daboll, next season, his play would improve?
Yes or no....?
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum BQ continued....
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