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Am I missing something?
If MH is hired to be this Czar then the Rooney rule wouldn't apply..it only applies when MH would look to hire a GM..??
I'm all confused! 
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Now for a scared-sounding reaction from the Seattle media.......
Quote:
Holmgren meeting with Browns' execs in Cleveland
If former Seattle Seahawks coach Mike Holmgren is using the Cleveland Browns as leverage, he's certainly putting some weight behind that push.
Picture
Mike Holmgren is in Cleveland meeting with the Browns about an opening for their head of football operations. (Getty Images/Al Messerschmidt)
Either that or Holmgren is seriously interested in working for the Browns, as the Cleveland Plain Dealer reports that he had dinner with Browns owner Randy Lerner on Monday night and is visiting team headquarters today.
The story said Lerner wanted to meet with Holmgren earlier as his No. 1 choice for a position as head of football operations for the struggling franchise, but waited until now as Holmgren wanted to see how things played out in Seattle and San Francisco.
Holmgren spent last week in Mexico with his wife, Kathy, helping build houses for underpriveleged families, but is now back on the job hunt.
Tim Ruskell, who stepped down as Seattle's general manager 12 days ago, is also rumored to be a contender for the Browns' opening. He interviewed with Lerner for that job in Cleveland in 2005, but chose the Seahawks instead.
The Seahawks are currently employing a search firm to come up with a list of candidates for their now-vacant general manager position and Holmgren has made it clear he's interested in that opening.
San Francisco owner Jed York said Monday he intends to keep his front-office and coaching staffs intact, eliminating that option.
Certainly there will be other NFL openings when the season ends, both in management and coaching, but it appears Holmgren doesn't want to wait that long. ESPN's Chris Mortensen is reporting that sources tell him Holmgren wants his future clarified by Christmas.
Whether the Seahawks want to be pushed to make their decision that soon remains to be seen.
Stay tuned. web page
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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It's basically saying any job related to the football operations needs to meet the Rooney Rule, so we would have to with the "czar" position. The only positions that don't have to are those on the business side.
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if the position comes down to Ruskell or Holmgren....
Holmgren - coached the Packers to 2 Superbowls...many diamond-in-the-rough QBs nurtured during his tenure. Built and Coached Seahawks to Superbowl.
Ruskell - took Holmgren's Superbowl contender team and ran it into the ground (though technically they made the Superbowl on his watch as GM....it was Holmgren's players that got them there)
I wonder which we should pick? How ever will we choose?
#gmstrong
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Quote:
I wonder which we should pick? How ever will we choose?
Not "we."
LERNER.
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Hehe.............We all know which guy Lerner prefers, but he did have a slinky in his pants for Ruskel in the past, so he could be in play if Holmgren stays on the left coast.
As a side comment, I'd urge fans to look deeper than just Holmgren's record as a GM. It's worth considering how many successful organizations he's been a part of, and how much of that knowledge would help him run this organization.
Keep in mind he was part of the Niners dynasty in the 80's, the HC of the Packers during their runs in the 90's, and got Seattle turned around (somewhat) in the 2000's.
He knows his stuff. He isn't a "can't miss" candidate, but he is the "credible" guy Lerner is looking for. Ruskel? No thanks.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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the biggest source of hope with Holmgren to me is that he was part of two organizations complete turnarounds (which is what we need here obviously)
GB and Seattle were both near the bottom of the NFL when he went there and both went to Superbowls during his tenure.
and there is no such thing as a can't miss since Paul Brown passed on....
#gmstrong
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And for the purists: Quote:
Keep in mind he was part of the Niners dynasty in the 80's
Which makes him of the Bill Walsh tree.... which makes him of the Paul Brown tree.
It'd be coming full circle, back to our beginnings (in a sense).
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
It's basically saying any job related to the football operations needs to meet the Rooney Rule, so we would have to with the "czar" position. The only positions that don't have to are those on the business side.
Luckily for Lerner, he pays Jim Brown to be an interview away down the hall.
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Quote:
Quote:
Browns spokesman Bill Bonsiewicz said Holmgren was scheduled to meet with coach Eric Mangini, but did not know if that meeting has taken place.
Oh, to be a fly on the wall in THAT meeting. 
Not a chance. Lew Merletti would have had you swatted and laying dead in a garbage can.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Quote:
Holmgren would fall under a GM equivalent job, so it would apply. 
That's not the way most of us are reading it.. in fact the discussion is that he'd be the TOP football guy here.. To most of us, that means a GM or equivalent title person would report to him.. now who's
In seattle however, GM is the position they have open so they gotta interview a minority candidate..
Try and keep will ya 
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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Lou is the Browns FBI/secret service guy right?
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Quote:
the biggest source of hope with Holmgren to me is that he was part of two organizations complete turnarounds (which is what we need here obviously)
GB and Seattle were both near the bottom of the NFL when he went there and both went to Superbowls during his tenure.
and there is no such thing as a can't miss since Paul Brown passed on....
Bill Parcells.
But I agree with the rest of what you said.
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Deep,, Read this: Quote:
The NFL has extended its minority interviewing rule to include openings for general manager jobs and equivalent front-office positions, in addition to head coaching vacancies.
Equivalent Front Office Positions... Now, if the GM reports to whatever position that Holmgren would have here, how in the hell can that be equal....
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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If that is the actual wording of the rule change, then you are likely correct, the position would be exempt from the rule.
Either way, it doesn't matter.... even if it does apply, I'm quite certain that the token interview would have already occurred, or will in the very near future. The Rooney Rule is merely a formality forced upon the NFL by the late Johnny Cochrane and Cyrus Mehri.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I had read elsewhere that it applied to all front office jobs that went beyond a certain level. I'll try to find the link. I think most of the stuff out there is speculation as to what the rule actually says.
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Quote:
If that is the actual wording of the rule change, then you are likely correct, the position would be exempt from the rule.
Unfortunatly, that's not directly from the rule,, it's from the article explaining the rule.. look at the top of page three of this thread for the article I posted..That's where I got it..
But to be honest, I read about 11 articles on the subject,, all say the same thing....
GM or equal position.. Either way, if the GM or equal reports to the position Holmgren gets here,,, seems simple...
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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latest news: Quote:
Cleveland Browns and Mike Holmgren conclude meeting with apparently no deal
By Tony Grossi
December 15, 2009, 5:34PM
BEREA -- After an all-day visit, Mike Holmgren and agent Bob LaMonte left the Browns' facility at about 5 p.m. Tuesday in a vehicle driven by a team security employee.
It was not immediately known whether Holmgren was being driven to the airport or to a hotel to regroup for the evening.
LaMonte's presence during Holmgren's visit strongly suggested there was negotiating taking place. Holmgren is owner Randy Lerner's first choice to take over Browns football operations.
Holmgren, who dined with Lerner and associates on Monday night, spent most of the day in Berea meeting with Browns coaches and other personnel.
Browns spokesman Bill Bonsiewicz confirmed the visit, but the club has had no other comment throughout the day. There was no indication the club was prepared to make an announcement regarding Holmgren
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2009/12/cleveland_browns_and_mike_holm.html
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
like the rumor like most people, but i really fear that he's just using the browns to get seattle to give him the max.
I know all is fair in love, war, and business, but at this level, it is a bit unethical to be playing that game. That turns around and bites you pretty often. There are ways to play that card without being so public about it
It may work out he doesn't end up here, but I don't think this is a ploy.
Take Mangini as an example. Holmgren would have to be the schmuck of schmucks to talk about talking/interviewing Mangini...having to know Eric would have to be at least a bit edgy about the deal, knowing he had no intent to take the job.
That is just a card a ethical person isn't going to play.
There is a difference between getting what you want and simply jerking people around.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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wasn't a matter of me not knowing what I was talking about, it was a matter of simply being unsure..
Come on man...I am not taking swipes at you, but if you know, then you aren't unsure.
If you know the answer is A, you check A. If you are unsure, you may check check A, B or C.
Anyway...thanks for the article on Holmgren leaving.
Why wouldn't the paper invest a few bucks to have some bird dog follow Holmgrens car to see if it went to the airport or some hotel??
The Plain Dealer is slipping badly.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Quote:
If that is the actual wording of the rule change, then you are likely correct, the position would be exempt from the rule.
Either way, it doesn't matter.... even if it does apply, I'm quite certain that the token interview would have already occurred, or will in the very near future. The Rooney Rule is merely a formality forced upon the NFL by the late Johnny Cochrane and Cyrus Mehri.
Call Mo Carthon if in doubt....but there is no doubt in this case. This is clearly a position above GM and a position that could easily be argued was previously held by the owner.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Quote:
And for the purists:
Quote:
Keep in mind he was part of the Niners dynasty in the 80's
Which makes him of the Bill Walsh tree.... which makes him of the Paul Brown tree.
It'd be coming full circle, back to our beginnings (in a sense).
ROOTS!
Hmm, we should make a movie.
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
Why wouldn't the paper invest a few bucks to have some bird dog follow Holmgrens car to see if it went to the airport or some hotel??
The Plain Dealer is slipping badly.
My guess would be that if he's hitting the airport, it's not happening until tomorrow at the earliest...
The weather is getting rough and I'm guessing we're putting up for his hotel.
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I would be less interested in if Holmgren gets on a plane and more interested as to whether or not his agent does.
If the interview and courtship is over and we're into negotiating, Holmgren would likely be heading home to the wife while the agent stays here and works out the contract details... and Mike would then fly back in for the introductory press conference.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
I had read elsewhere that it applied to all front office jobs that went beyond a certain level. I'll try to find the link. I think most of the stuff out there is speculation as to what the rule actually says.
Just read the keys words I highlighted earlier....unless the position was held by the owner or a member of the owners family.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Quote:
Holmgren spent last week in Mexico with his wife, Kathy, helping build houses for underpriveleged families, but is now back on the job hunt.
That surprised me. Usually guys of his age and income would donate to help out people, so it says a lot to me he went and did it hands on. Not that I didn't want him before, but I want him more now! Michael, do not let my love me unrequited!
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/GmuEd.gif) "One man's Bum is another man's Hobo" - Waterdawg
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Lou is the Browns FBI/secret service guy right?
seeing as how this guy has a vowel on the end of his name,better to look in the opposite direction 
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Quote:
latest news:
Quote:
Cleveland Browns and Mike Holmgren conclude meeting with apparently no deal
By Tony Grossi
December 15, 2009, 5:34PM
BEREA -- After an all-day visit, Mike Holmgren and agent Bob LaMonte left the Browns' facility at about 5 p.m. Tuesday in a vehicle driven by a team security employee.
It was not immediately known whether Holmgren was being driven to the airport or to a hotel to regroup for the evening.
LaMonte's presence during Holmgren's visit strongly suggested there was negotiating taking place. Holmgren is owner Randy Lerner's first choice to take over Browns football operations.
Holmgren, who dined with Lerner and associates on Monday night, spent most of the day in Berea meeting with Browns coaches and other personnel.
Browns spokesman Bill Bonsiewicz confirmed the visit, but the club has had no other comment throughout the day. There was no indication the club was prepared to make an announcement regarding Holmgren
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2009/12/cleveland_browns_and_mike_holm.html
What did they expect him to do.. sleep on the couch ? Even if he flew out it means nothing.
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Let's get Chloe from CTU to monitor bank and street cams while running a CC check to see if he booked a Hotel or flight. While she's at it.. let her re-task a CIA bird and monitor activity in that area. 
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Quote:
Come on man...I am not taking swipes at you, but if you know, then you aren't unsure.
I'll accept you didn't mean it the way I took it,, The end of that..
Quote:
Why wouldn't the paper invest a few bucks to have some bird dog follow Holmgrens car to see if it went to the airport or some hotel??
The Plain Dealer is slipping badly.
Darnest thing, that's the first question I asked... I don't know why they didn't send someone to birddog him... seems simple enough.. Car goes to airport,,, safe bet, holmgren is heading out.. car goes to a hotel,,, safe bet, he's staying until tomorrow,,how hard is that....
#GMSTRONG
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Cleveland Browns and Mike Holmgren conclude meeting with apparently no deal By Tony Grossi December 15, 2009, 5:34PM UPDATED: 7:09 p.m. . BEREA, Ohio -- The romancing of Mike Holmgren as head of Browns football operations continued in earnest on Tuesday when Holmgren completed a second day of visiting. After dining with owner Randy Lerner and other operatives on Monday night, Holmgren met with Browns coaches and other personnel in the team's facility on Tuesday. A Browns spokesman confirmed Holmgren's visit during the day but said the team had no further comment. The presence of agent Bob LaMonte strongly indicated that negotiations were taking place. Holmgren and LaMonte left the facility at about 5 p.m., however, apparently without a deal in hand. Two NFL sources contacted on Tuesday said that Holmgren, 61, might command a price tag in the virgin territory of $10 million a year to oversee all aspects of the Browns' football operations. Even if the Browns reached an accord with Holmgren, the club probably wouldn't announce it until complying with the league's Rooney Rule. The rule mandates every team must interview at least one minority candidate before filling a front office vacancy. The rule, originally intended for head coach hires, was expanded in June to include a club's "senior football operations position." Teams can be fined up to $500,000 for violating the Rooney Rule. Former Detroit Lions President Matt Millen was fined $200,000 in 2003 when he hired Steve Mariucci as coach without interviewing a minority. It is not known whether Holmgren would jointly serve as the team's general manager or appoint one, as Bill Parcells did when he pioneered the role of "football czar" with the Miami Dolphins late in the 2007 season. Under Parcells' guiding hand, the Dolphins improved from 1-15 in 2007 to 11-5 the following year. They are 7-6 this season and in the hunt for an AFC wild-card berth and second consecutive playoff appearance. Lerner is hoping to achieve similar results from Holmgren, even though the former Seahawks and Packers coach had a spotty record in four years as Seattle's sole football authority. With Seattle, Holmgren initially held the titles of executive vice president/general manager and head coach. Juggling those responsibilities, Holmgren led the Seahawks to records of 9-7 plus a loss in the playoffs, 6-10, 9-7 and 7-9. Following the 2002 season, the Seahawks relieved Holmgren of GM duties. The club proceeded to make five consecutive trips to the playoffs, including a Super Bowl run in 2005. Holmgren also coached the Packers to back-to-back appearances in the Super Bowl following the 1996 and '97 seasons, winning it once. Holmgren retired from coaching after the 2008 season. He announced this year he wanted to return to the NFL in a management position. Recently Holmgren said he would like to return to the Seahawks, who are now looking for a general manager after the resignation of Tim Ruskell. But the Seahawks have enlisted an executive search firm to find his successor and it's uncertain if the team even considers Holmgren a candidate. If Holmgren joins the Browns, it is presumed that he would be the man who would dictate the future of coach Eric Mangini, who is 2-11 in his first season with the Browns. After the Browns fired Mangini's hand-picked choice for general manager, George Kokinis, on Nov. 2, Mangini said he would be involved in the search for a replacement. But lately his comments have changed. When asked, Mangini repeatedly has said that he and Lerner have not talked about his future or anything regarding next year. In the afterglow of the Browns' 13-6 win over the Steelers on Thursday night, Mangini has appeared more confident about his future in Cleveland. The day after the win, Mangini made light of the word "czar" in connection with his future. "I would imagine that anybody who would merit the title 'czar' would look a lot deeper than just the record," Mangini said. "Like I've said, I'm transparent. There's been rationale for all of the decisions. There's been a thought process. Some of it's been good, some of it's been bad, but there's a reason behind it. "Anybody who comes in can take a look at it. They can sit down and talk to the coaches, sit in on any meeting, watch our practices ... see how we operate. Come to our meetings. See how we teach. See how we function as a staff because it's good and it's right. I'm confident in it. Come take a look because it's a good product." http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2009/12/cleveland_browns_and_mike_holm.html
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Mort and Clayton said about a 70% chance it happens and if so Mangini is toast.
An old buddy living in the Carolinas said there was a buzz there about about a Holmgren / Cowher combo in Cleveland...can't see it myself but that'd get some attention around the league huh?
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can't help feeling as if Tony is wrong about the Rooney Rule applying here...
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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Quote:
Mort and Clayton said about a 70% chance it happens and if so Mangini is toast.
An old buddy living in the Carolinas said there was a buzz there about about a Holmgren / Cowher combo in Cleveland...can't see it myself but that'd get some attention around the league huh?
I know I'm brutally honest sometimes, at least to myself. I don't want Cowher and I don't care who it ticks off. I hope he gets Fox's job.
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Quote:
Mort and Clayton said about a 70% chance it happens and if so Mangini is toast.
An old buddy living in the Carolinas said there was a buzz there about about a Holmgren / Cowher combo in Cleveland...can't see it myself but that'd get some attention around the league huh?
When/Where did they say this?
Go Browns!!![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/BrowniePoints/AndersonSnowPic.jpg)
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If Holmgren is here, Mangini won't be back.
Hell, even without Holmgren it's doubtful Mangini will be back.
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Too early to call yet,...either statement. But we're not in Lerner's head/thoughts -- that's where the truth lies.
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no deal yet? Mangini can get some sleep and quit sweating for now. If this dont happen, either these guys know Lerner is a fool and are playing him for the Seattle job or Lerner is playing the fans to say "Hey I tried, be happy with mangini next year." Sorry, just a stressful year and too hard to be optimistic about anything Lerner does. Beating Pittsburgh still made my year 
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You can't get into either guy's thought process and say whether (if he even is hired) Holmgren would fire Mangini.
He was quoted as saying that, as a coach, he didn't believe in firing a coach after his first season, but as a GM, he may have to look at it differently. I'm not guaranteeing anybody is firing anybody until it happens.
I think it is a plus that his agent was hanging around. Don't see why his agent would be around if there wasn't negotiations being held at least in their most basic form. It's probably a good thing, but he still has Seattle if they are still interested. The timeline is about a week, so we won't have to wait long.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,651
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,651 |
I see everything as being positive. I suspect that the Rooney Rule would apply,, but have no idea, other than Ozzie, who has publically stated that he has no interest would fit the criteria. Maybe we could stretch it to Dungy or Edwards, but there is a pretty obvious void.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Holmgren meets with Browns brass
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