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Good job Daman.. 
Agreed.
So, I'm going to assume that the reason he left without a presser stating he's our man is that we have to interview a minority candidate first. Call me optimistic...
I have two questions.... (and I almost called nfl radio this morning to pose them) (a) which is worse, not interviewing a minority candidate or interviewing one as a token just to abide by the rule? (b) why isn't there exceptions to the rule when, as in this case, there is (as far as we know) one sole candidate for the job in mid-season when the candidate pool is significantly decreased over what it'd be in February?
The first, is more rhetorical, no answer needed. Second question, if we were in Feb, I think we'd be able to add at least 1 very qualified minority in Ozzie Newsome - but who from a minority perspective is available right now? I like the idea behind the rule, but it seems somewhat inflexible during a season.
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Good questions, indeed.
You'd think they'd have to expect plenty of "token" interviews when they put this rule into effect.
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This policy specifically requires clubs to interview at least one minority candidate as part of the hiring process for a club's senior football operations position, whether described as general manager, executive vice president of football operations, or otherwise.
Thanks for putting this tired subject to rest D. Case closed.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I have two questions.... (and I almost called nfl radio this morning to pose them) (a) which is worse, not interviewing a minority candidate or interviewing one as a token just to abide by the rule?
Not sure if you are looking for an answer or making a statement. But in answer to your question:
Because it still gives that other person a chance for exposure and possibly a job down the road as a result of the interview (directly or indirectly).
I know, it's the NFL, but if you have been through the hiring process as an employer or candidate, you also realize that some times the first choice doesn't end up as the selected candidate.
Browns fan in Canada.
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I'd still like to know what minority candidates are out there that fit the criteria.. except Ozzie of course.....
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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further down in my comments, I said that one was rhetorical. the point is that token interviews are as bad as not interviewing
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Thanks for posting that......nice to get some real info injected back into the thread as opposed to the garbage that is making the thread so lengthy.
What makes that reporters take any more or less legit than Grossis or Pluto or the reports coming out of ESPN or Fox Sports..
Why is this considered real info and the other stuff garbage in your eyes? I"m confused...
I was referring to the Seinfeld youtube (i thought this was pure football and can remember when this place was moderated) and the lame posts about the Rooney rule....
duh
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It'd be a touchy subject to raid another teams kitchen just to bring in a guy for a feaux interview, but James "Shack" Harris had been the GM of the Jags. He was fired, and is now a Personel VP (or something like that, I don't recall) with the Lions.
The problem is finding a guy who has a strong enough resume to actually warrant consideration for such job, because bringing in someone's asian Assistant Director of College Scouting for the Southwest District for an interview isn't going to fool anyone. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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So if Holmgren is brought in, who are some of Holmgren's people?
They say Chuckie is locked in and happy on MNF, but I don't see him passing on an opportunity to work with Holmgren and take a team like the Browns and building them into a championship team. At least that's the impression I get when I heard him talk when the Browns were on MNF.
Seems to me, he'd build an environment that would take some of the pressure off Quinn, develop the trust and confidenced needed by young QBs.
Browns fan in Canada.
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Last edited by Thebigbaddawg; 12/16/09 02:21 PM.
you had a good run Hank.
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Thanks for posting that......nice to get some real info injected back into the thread as opposed to the garbage that is making the thread so lengthy.
What info? The article basically states that Holmgren met with the Browns and that Seattle is undergoing a search... everything else is speculation.. EVERYTHING.
yebat' Putin
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The lack of info this morning is killing me. I would think that if the deal fell thru we'd probably hear something sooner than later.
I'm hoping it's just the Rooney rule which is keeping things quiet right now and not that the two sides couldn't reach an agreement.
it could be the Rooney rule, which is a bad rule in this case, I mean what if you were just focusing on just one guy that you wanted as GM... and you had to just give out "fake" interviews to other people just to satisfy the rule...
I can see how those interviews go... "GM-potential Z, please come in" "how are you doing?" 'great' "Ok you have a nice day and thanks for stopping by...."
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/FUKyw.png) "Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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For all we know, this is a done deal and they are waiting for the season to end to announce it.
- They met in public
-Holmgren talked with Mangini
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For all we know, this is a done deal and they are waiting for the season to end to announce it.
- They met in public
-Holmgren talked with Mangini
Then again for all we know, they met in public, he talked with Mangini, toured the facilities then turned to his agent, snickered and said, "You've got to be freakin' kidding me, c'mon Bob, let's go".
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
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For all we know, this is a done deal and they are waiting for the season to end to announce it.
- They met in public
-Holmgren talked with Mangini
Then again for all we know, they met in public, he talked with Mangini, toured the facilities then turned to his agent, snickered and said, "You've got to be freakin' kidding me, c'mon Bob, let's go".
The glass WAY empty outlook . . .
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For all we know, this is a done deal and they are waiting for the season to end to announce it.
- They met in public
-Holmgren talked with Mangini
Then again for all we know, they met in public, he talked with Mangini, toured the facilities then turned to his agent, snickered and said, "You've got to be freakin' kidding me, c'mon Bob, let's go".
Considering that I'm sure he had talked to some of the people he knows first and the fact that he was there for 2 full days I highly doubt that happened.
In this case, the obvious answer is probably the right answer. They met, they talked about vision and personnel and roles and responsibilities... there are some things he likes, some things he probably has concerns about... and he's going to think about it a bit and see what other teams (the Seahawks) do.. but I doubt he's going to wait past the end of the season to make a decision.
yebat' Putin
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So if Holmgren is brought in, who are some of Holmgren's people?
That coaching tree listed is a good starting point, but it's too early to really put specific names to positions.
We don't know if Holmgren will be the guy. That makes things murky.
If he is, we don't know who he'd bring in as his #1 guy. We'll call that guy the GM. That makes things more murky.
Depending on who that GM is, the directions for the next guy are varied. Which guys in the league or college or the UFL want to move on? How many will get fired?
It's just too early to tell.
As you noted, Chuckie would be one of the top names for head coach. I'm not for that, but it is what it is.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Your's, mine or someone else's, it's all pure speculation at this point and anything is possible. Even probabilities are subject to change without notice on this merry go-round. I'm not saying the guy won't take it or didn't like us, just offered up the opposing point of view.
I'd rather like it if he did take it but all this back and forth and posting of speculative articles where everyone is trying to read between the lines from someone who knows only as much as the average poster on this board knows is not going to get you any closer to the answer. When they decide to let everyone know, we'll know.
#GMSTRONG
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When they decide to let everyone know, we'll know.
And I am not going to lose a wink of sleep waiting for it. I have no control over it, so I'll just sit here with my lawn chair and beer cooler, and watch the parade. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I was referring to the Seinfeld youtube (i thought this was pure football and can remember when this place was moderated) and the lame posts about the Rooney rule....
OK,, I get it,, you are upset over something,,, you take it out on anything and anybody YOU think isn't following the rules as YOU interpret them...
Got it,,, 
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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The Crypt-Keeper is raking the muck again. Is it true? Is it BS?
You be the judge........
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Sometimes the boss has a hard time getting back into his office, and that might be the story brewing in Seattle with Mike Holmgren.
Any questions?
Have a question for John Clayton? Connect with him here.
Holmgren is having extensive meetings with Cleveland Browns owner Randy Lerner about becoming the team's head of football operations. In the meantime, the Seahawks are planning their search to replace general manager Tim Ruskell. Holmgren wants the Seahawks' job. I'm starting to get the feeling he's not going to get it, even though he's clearly the best choice.
It's often been said in the business world that bosses who take over losing operations aren't hired to make friends in old buildings. Holmgren turned the Seahawks into a winner during his days as a coach and general manager. The excitement and confidence generated from his teams turned Qwest Field into one of the NFL's loudest home stadiums. Players called Holmgren "The Big Show.'' It was a show that delivered.
Rehiring Holmgren as just the general manager seems to be a no-brainer, but there is a small, powerful contingent in the Seahawks' organization looking for a new leader, and it might block Holmgren's chances. In Cleveland, Holmgren can change the culture of that franchise. Sure, he made mistakes as a coach/GM with the Seahawks, but he also assembled a core group of players who went to a Super Bowl.
Unless Lerner doesn't give Holmgren the ability to revamp the football operations, "The Big Show'' could be hired in Cleveland as early as Christmas or as late as New Year's Day. I'm not sold the Seahawks are going to be ready to reach out to him and bring him back by then.
You can't say the Seahawks won't find a good general manager in their search, but Holmgren is clearly a sure thing. He has produced winners in Green Bay and Seattle. The boss is ready to report back to work after a year off, but the change of address labels might be needed for a new Cleveland location.
As for current Browns coach Eric Mangini, a Holmgren hiring would mean a one-and-done for Mangini in Cleveland.
And of course the king of muckraking has to chime in by taking the story and running with it................Quote:
PFT
Posted by Mike Florio on December 16, 2009 2:54 PM ET
Former Seahawks coach Mike Holmgren is interested in returning to the team with a front-office role that entails significant influence over the operation.
But there are growing indications he's not wanted there.
John Clayton of ESPN reports that "there is a small, powerful contingent" that may block Holmgren's chances of returning.
The leader of the pack undoubtedly is CEO Tod Leiweke, who likely wants to run the show his way -- and who knows that it would be much easier to make that happen by hiring someone who would be indebted to Leiweke for providing the opportunity.
These political realities ignore the question of whether Holmgren is the right man for the job. Clayton proclaims that Holmgren is "clearly the best choice," which should go a long way toward keeping Clayton in the Big Show's good graces. But how can Clayton or anyone know the identity of the best candidate without knowing the identity of all of them?
For now, the list of possible choices is unclear, probably because the search firm is asking all potential candidates to keep their status as potential candidates quiet. So without knowing who is and isn't in the mix, there's no way of knowing whether the guy who served as both G.M. and coach of the Seahawks for several years before giving up the G.M. title would be able to succeed there as the G.M. only.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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This seems to be the consensus between Schefter, Florio, Mort and now Clayton...
Must be something to it. Between that and the fact that Paul Allen has much more pressing matters at hand *fighting cancer*, it really has the Browns in a position of strength.
However, it has to be done by the end of the season.
you had a good run Hank.
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LOL,, Well, it's saying what I want to hear so yeah,, GREAT ARTICLE  Hope he's right
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Got a kick out of this.... Quote:
Mike Holmgren's to-do list:
Mike Holmgren visited the Browns' facility to gauge his interest in taking over the teams's football operations. In spite of the Super Bowl win on Holmgren's resume, head coach Eric Mangini says he wasn't bothered the visit. Spoken like a man with a guaranteed contract.
If Mangini wants stay on the job, he may want to think again. Page 2 got a look at Holmgren's notes from his visit, and they don't bode well for the current boss.
1. Have coach's office swept for bugs.
2. Order sturdier chair in the head coach's office.
3. Order coaches' gear that goes better with glasses and mustaches.
4. Call Favre. Remind him how familiar he is with the offense.
5. Gas up the chopper and Escalade, just in case.
6. Get LeBron's number from the Rolodex before Mangini takes it with him.
7. Jim Brown's, too. Need someone younger than Jamal Lewis.
8. Ask old buddy Sherm Lewis if he'd like to interview for the head coach position. Bingo!
http://espn.go.com/espn/page2/index?id=4748480
Not sure it's a blog or not,, but thought it was funny anyway.....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Must be something to it. Between that and the fact that Paul Allen has much more pressing matters at hand *fighting cancer*, it really has the Browns in a position of strength.
Wow,, I didn't know that.. Oh Man.. I'm sorry to hear that.. I wish him the best...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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So if Holmgren is brought in, who are some of Holmgren's people?
They say Chuckie is locked in and happy on MNF, but I don't see him passing on an opportunity to work with Holmgren and take a team like the Browns and building them into a championship team. At least that's the impression I get when I heard him talk when the Browns were on MNF.
Seems to me, he'd build an environment that would take some of the pressure off Quinn, develop the trust and confidenced needed by young QBs.
ESPN and MNF would rather have Gruden out there on the sidelines. Not that they don't like him in the booth, but he is more valuable to the Big Picture resurrecting the Browns. He can be replaced in the booth.
Personally, I don't watch MNF "because" of Gruden being there. It is football and it is on TV,...'nuff said.
Gruden can walk anytime he wants--I would bank that it's in his "contract."
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All Pro
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I'd still like to know what minority candidates are out there that fit the criteria.. except Ozzie of course.....
What's Romeo doing these days?
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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Ohhh,,, Dungy.., There is a guy I have a ton of respect for.. Not sure what kinda top football guy he'd be... but he's a good guy and a good coach..
Jeep: as for RAC... I would bet you that the league would see right though that...
Dungy has at least been successful as a HC.. So it's not completly out of the question that a promotion is in order...
But that's just some wacko guessing on my part....means nothing...
Last edited by Damanshot; 12/16/09 05:00 PM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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What about Tony Dungy?
Browns fan in Canada.
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Ohhh,,, Dungy.., There is a guy I have a ton of respect for.. Not sure what kinda top football guy he'd be... but he's a good guy and a good coach..
Jeep: as for RAC... I would bet you that the league would see right thought that...
Dungy has at least been successful as a HC.. So it's not completly out of the question that a promotion is in order...
But that's just some wacko guessing on my part....means nothing...
Dungy is a highly qualified candidate, but what would be the real reason to interview him at all if MH is a done deal ? Same thing as interviewing RAC. While based in good intent, The Rooney Rule is ridiculous.
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Jeep: as for RAC... I would bet you that the league would see right though that.....
I doubt that the league would truly care unless someone forced them to press the issue. The Rooney Rule isn't something the league wanted, it was forced upon them and they caved in a heartbeat because they are more concerned about their image than what makes sense. They also wanted to avoid a shakedown type lawsuit from Merhi & Cohcrane.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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What would be the real reason to interview him at all if MH is a done deal ? Same thing as interviewing RAC. While based in good intent, The Rooney Rule is ridiculous.
I think with Seattle's job opening, we're all in agreement that MH is NOT a done deal.
Again, an owner would be an idiot not to interview a group of candidates even if you have a leading candidate. It just makes good business sense. Never mind this is the NFL, it should still be run successfully like a business.
Browns fan in Canada.
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While I'm thinking about it, since some here are interested in whether the possibility exists that Holmgren keeps Mangini, here's a bad thought--"Let's keep him so we dont have to embarrass Tony Dungy in an interview."
If I was a puke, I'd start me up a company,...Rooney Rule Rooters, hire Dungy to be the Head Rooter and let teams pay him to be their "Get-Out-of-Jail Free" interviewee.
The Rooney Rule stinks.
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Dungy is a highly qualified candidate, but what would be the real reason to interview him at all if MH is a done deal ? Same thing as interviewing RAC. While based in good intent, The Rooney Rule is ridiculous.
I'm guessing the reason to interview him is two fold...
1. To meet the requirements set forth in the Rooney Rule
2. To have another candidate that may be better than Holmgren or at the very least in case Holmgren stiffs us...
Just a guess
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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Point is, you don't need a Rooney Rule to get a good feel on #2,... Is there any Dungy-Holmgren history that lends itself to those two being the GM-HC combo ? I just don't think Tony wants to coach anymore, but I don't 'know' that.
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Point is, you don't need a Rooney Rule to get a good feel on #2,...
Ohhh so true great one But the rooney rule exists.. so it's like killing two birds with one stone... and I actually like the idea...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Mike Holmgren's nickname is "The Big Show"?
Who knew?
It's way better than that nickname people came up with for Mangini and Kokinis, that's for certain.
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What makes Dungy so attractive?
As a HC or a human being sure,but as the man to run the entire org I don't see his qualifications.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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He's a Rooney Rule rooter. If I was Tony I would tell the Browns to shove it, unless I thought there was a chance I could be talked into the HC job instead,...or in case Mike fires Eric.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Holmgren meets with Browns brass
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