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Quote:
Also note Holmgren said "We've been in contact with his representatives even when I was in Arizona."
And?
Contact doesn't mean numbers were thrown out.
How many Teams are calling Holmgren today, asking what the Browns would take for a trade for Cribbs, I'd say 25 to 31.
And I'd say I wouldn't care to guess..dude might get a contract extension or a bonus..they aren't going to just rip up his contract and redo it..but MH isn't going to be pressured while he's cooking up the staff...
And listening to his agent right now..he seems over- bearing ,a nag and a cry baby..
Rickert said new Browns president Mike Holmgren has offered Cribbs a take-it-or-leave-it multiyear contract extension that averaged $1.4 million a season with the potential of reaching $2 million through incentives. see above link
true it does sound like he is a cry baby, but this agent didn't do this with wright or JT, and he sat on his hands for 3 years with Cribbs.
If the story is true, and that is a big IF, and it is a take-it-or-leave-it 2 mil contract, then Cribbs said "no thanks, and trade me"
Now I understand that people on the form seem to have a higher understanding of the team and football in general, than the average Fan, which is why I love this place. Please note, I am not one of them as my football knowledge is low, so I just mostly read post by other guru's. But the average Fan, and even the non-Browns fan want to see play-makers like Cribbs, the only one the Browns have, how many of them are really unhappy or might not buy PSL's for next year? (yes maybe Harrison as well, but 3 games are not a career)
Also it is nice to have a player like Cribbs, as fans of other teams will say " wow love to have him on our team, instead of wow you guy's suck, hope we play you next year, for an easy win."
Go Browns !!!!
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Quote:
Quote:
reaching $2 million through incentives. Wow take it or leave it. Everyone still loving Holmgren the GM, maybe he was coach for a reason?
Say good bye to Cribbs 
 
THAT'S THE POINT!
He isn't the GM! He is the President! He's trying to hire the GM, can't he get the time to do that?
Either way, losing a special teams player *albeit the best special teams player in NFL History* is still okay. If he wants to be traded, it really stinks but oh well.
Rickert said new Browns president Mike Holmgren has offered Cribbs a take-it-or-leave-it multiyear contract extension that averaged $1.4 million a season with the potential of reaching $2 million through incentives.
So it sounds like he is acting GM, is all I was saying.
Go Browns !!!!
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It's nothing to worry about.
Detroit yanked their superstar Barry Sanders around until he finally quit and things have been going great for them ever since.
It's no big deal.
Besides, we can't afford to pay him because we still have KW2 and BE on the roster.
Randy Lerner is an honest man. He'd never leave a quality player twisting in the wind, or break a promise to him. He'd never hire a coach to clean up a train wreck and then bail on him ten weeks in the first year.
Randy eeks by like the rest of us, charging a reasonable 17% interest on VISA balances. The credit card industry has always been a leader in fair business and Congress has never had to pass laws to stop them from screwing people.
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just clicking....
I haven't read any other replies, nor do I intend to, but here is my $0.02:
Cribb's agent is in the right on this. They were told to do their thing and that they'd be taken care of. Cribbs more than did his thing, and now he is getting a slap in the face. Yes, it is the initial round of negotiations, but damn man... at least come out and start things in good faith, with some respectable numbers. $1.whatever/year for what he brings to the team really IS an insult, it's a complete joke.
I'd be pissed, too if I were them. If not for Cribbs, I can almost guarantee that we lose those last four games - Harrison's contributions included - and Mangini would be hanging from a 1-15 record and there would be a VERY different feeling about town (not too mention that the damned Steelers would be in the playoffs).
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Legend
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You could have at least indicated sarcasm,.... 
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Got this little nugget from someone I know...
Players who made approx. $1.4M in 2009: Dwayne Bowe $1.4M, Miles Austin $1.5M, DeSean Jackson $1.1M, Vincent Jackson $900K, Santnio Holmes $1.8M.
Now tell me Josh Cribbs worth so much more than ANY of those WR's and that the offer is insulting. You just cant do it...
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reaching $2 million through incentives. Wow take it or leave it. Everyone still loving Holmgren the GM, maybe he was coach for a reason?
Say good bye to Cribbs
LOL.......it's always ugly, very few times does everybody sit around the table holding hands singing kumbya....Cribbs will be ok, and does he wanna be part of this in Cleveland or does he just wanna be the highest paid person,
I must say I did figure the clubs fist offer would be somewhat higher, than 1.4 but like we said it's the first offer, they will get mad, talk holdout trade, disrespect, we will up it, they will say were gonna talk again, cry somemore, talk about trades, they come down we go up and we all agree on a 5 year 20 mill contract with incentives to make 25, & a 2.5 mil sigining up front good faith money type deal.
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Legend
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Quote:
Got this little nugget from someone I know...
Players who made approx. $1.4M in 2009: Dwayne Bowe $1.4M, Miles Austin $1.5M, DeSean Jackson $1.1M, Vincent Jackson $900K, Santnio Holmes $1.8M.
Now tell me Josh Cribbs worth so much more than ANY of those WR's and that the offer is insulting. You just cant do it...
And of those, whose team did not make a decent playoff run ?
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It's nothing to worry about.
Detroit yanked their superstar Barry Sanders around until he finally quit and things have been going great for them ever since.
It's no big deal.
Besides, we can't afford to pay him because we still have KW2 and BE on the roster.
Randy Lerner is an honest man. He'd never leave a quality player twisting in the wind, or break a promise to him. He'd never hire a coach to clean up a train wreck and then bail on him ten weeks in the first year.
Randy eeks by like the rest of us, charging a reasonable 17% interest on VISA balances. The credit card industry has always been a leader in fair business and Congress has never had to pass laws to stop them from screwing people.
Great Post
Go Browns !!!!
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Looking at the Cribbs situation from the Browns point of view. His trade value may never be higher and with the contract he's under, it is cap friendly to other teams. That said, other teams would have to make him happy...and as of now, we don't know what it is that makes Josh happy.
When Cribbs signed a 6 year deal in Nov. 2006, he was very happy...
"This is a dream come true for me,” said Cribbs. “I want to thank Randy Lerner, Phil Savage and Romeo Crennel for giving me this opportunity. I love the city of Cleveland, our fans and I’m excited that I will be here for the long haul. It certainly feels good to be wanted, and now I’m even more motivated because I want to prove to this organization that they made the right decision.”
web page
What changed for Cribbs?...he signed with a new agent, JR Rickert,
who likely said, hey Josh, I can get more money than that.
Honestly, it might be best for the Browns to hold off on another new contract for Cribbs until after the draft or until the Browns know what kind of interest and value Cribbs generates going into next season. The Browns know they have the power to make Cribbs and his agent "happy", when the Browns decide they want to make them "happy".
Relax and be patient Browns fans...Cribbs is not going anywhere until the Browns say he's going.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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How many of those players hold the ALL TIME NFL RECORD for their position?
[whisper] none [/whisper]
How many of those players will get their contracts 'up" over the next three years?
Most.
Hey, since you're posting numbers - maybe you could post some of the salaries of the other Browns players like Quinn, Anderson, Womack, Wright, McD, Pool, Royal..... You know - elite NFL players.
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The character was Special Ed, FYI. As for Cribbs, in all seriousness what is his trade value? If someone wants to fork over a good draft pick or two, I don't think you can be close-minded to it. Especially if they continue to play their game like this. Don't get me wrong, I love Joshua Cribbs, but no one is completely inexpendable. I favor a deal getting done, but IF it really gets as ugly as the agents are talking, would understand and be open to it if the price is right.
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
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Quote:
Got this little nugget from someone I know...
Players who made approx. $1.4M in 2009: Dwayne Bowe $1.4M, Miles Austin $1.5M, DeSean Jackson $1.1M, Vincent Jackson $900K, Santnio Holmes $1.8M.
Now tell me Josh Cribbs worth so much more than ANY of those WR's and that the offer is insulting. You just cant do it...
I just checked one but :
Dwayne Bowe
Drafted: 2007 - Rd 1
(23rd overall by the Chiefs)
Salary: $2,173,120
so you are looking at a first round pick and Cribbs? Plus he make 2.1 mil and got signing bonuses...so where did you get your numbers?
I got it from here:
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/player/dwayne-bowe/469551
Go Browns !!!!
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Some of U are funny..real funny..
First this is not the proper way this should have been handled..
What's a fair deal for the best returner in the game, and one of the best special team defenders?
The Bears set a lofty figure for Devin Hester last year, with expectations that he would also evolve into a full-time receiver. He's pretty much done that, and it looks like the club and some fans have questioned the wisdom of the deal in retrospect.
Cribbs never evolved into a receiver, but instead became THE guy in the Wildcat portion of the playbook. He's above average doing that, well below average as a wr.
So what then would be a fair deal for such a player? I don't know it's new ground. It's easy to say that Cribbs orany player deserves a fair deal. But the going rate for such a one-of-a-kind player has yet to be determined.
I do know that this should/can and will wait ..but what's more important,getting your staff sorted out or negotiating your ST's ace's contract?
Ahhhh,in my book the former..you have 7 months to work on player contracts.
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I'm sorry, but I can't agree that Cribbs is "just" a special teams player.
Here are the four leading yards from scrimmage leaders on the team:
Harrison (42pts)
Rush: 862 (5TD, 37FD)
Rec: 220 (2TD)
Total: 1082 (7TD)
Massaquoi (18pts)
Rush: -3
Rec: 624 (3TD)
Total: 621 (3TD)
Lewis (2pts)
Rush: 500
Rec: 88
Total: 588 (0TD)
Cribbs (36pts)
Rush: 381 (1TD)
Rec: 135 (1TD)
Total: 516 (6TD)
P Ret: (1TD)
K Ret: (3TD)
So although he only saw "spot duty" he was the 4th-leading offensive player, about 100 yards behind our "#1" receiver and 70 yards behind our featured RB for more than half the season. The only other guy he was behind was the guy that led the NFL in rushing over the last month of the season.
He was also our second-leading scorer that's not a kicker.
I couldn't find the first down statistics, but I bet he was pretty high on that list, too.
I disagree with the Parrish, Hester, and Davis comparisons. Parrish and Hester got contracts after 1 or 2 good years. Cribbs has been a stud for 4 now? Also, when Davis was signed, he was supposed to be the #2 wideout in addition to the KR. He's been supplanted there, so that is a contract that didn't work out for Houston.
I say give Cribbs 5 years, $15 million. He's worth it to the team. People get so hung up on other players contracts and whatever... what is this player worth to this team? Is he worth 2.5% of the salary cap? Of course he is! And they offered him less than half of that.
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Just clicking... I would caution folks from getting too excited (one way or the other) at this point. Holmgren was formally introduced less than 48-hours ago. Hiring a GM and deciding what to do with Mangini comes first. Heck, it hasn't even been a week since the regular season ended! There is no rush to get this deal done. Cribbs isn't going anywhere (unless we decide to move him). We're a long way from OTAs and training camp. The Cribbs camp is staking out their position early. Honestly, other than the manner in which they chose to do it (stupidly, in public -- a move that can only COST Cribbs public support given his immense popularity right now), I don't really have a problem with them doing so. However, to say they are "insulted" by the initial offer and go straight to the public with accusations is bush-league.  It's a NEGOTIATION. So, shut up and NEG-O-TI-ATE already! You don't like the starting figure? Fine. Don't whine about it publicly. Just fire back a figure that's equally "absurd" to get the potential meeting point higher. This isn't rocket science. Josh needs better represenation, I think. These clowns are behaving like amateurs, IMO. The bottom line for me is: 1. We have plenty of time to work this out with Josh. 2. MH needs to focus on getting the GM hired and his HC decision made first. 3. The "low-ball" offer being REPORTED may be as much about telling the Cribbs camp "we're not ready to talk just yet" as it has to do with actually kicking off a negotiation.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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1st String
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I say give Cribbs 5 years, $15 million. He's worth it to the team. People get so hung up on other players contracts and whatever... what is this player worth to this team? Is he worth 2.5% of the salary cap? Of course he is! And they offered him less than half of that.
We have no clue what they really offered, because in the NFL the real money is in the signing bonuses and roster bonuses which we have no clue on. They could have offered him 4 years at 1.4 million and a 10 million dollar signing bonus, and he would be more than compensated.
people are getting way to out of wack, when they only have half the information. Not to mention that there is plenty of time to get this done.
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jc...
This is just a thought, but what if Cribbs agent called Holmgren on Monday and said "Make an offer now or else?". So Holmgren flexed a lil muscle of his own.
The thing find interesting is the inclusion of the supposed offer numbers, and nothing on what they were looking for. To me that reads as "we will put out the information that supports our argument, and leave out details that don't." mentality.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Quote:
Got this little nugget from someone I know...
Players who made approx. $1.4M in 2009: Dwayne Bowe $1.4M, Miles Austin $1.5M, DeSean Jackson $1.1M, Vincent Jackson $900K, Santnio Holmes $1.8M.
Now tell me Josh Cribbs worth so much more than ANY of those WR's and that the offer is insulting. You just cant do it...
All playing on rookie deals slotted according to draft position, other than undrafted Miles Austin. I would expect every one of these players, as long as they continue to produce at their current (with the exception of Bowe, who only saw 9 games this season) high level, to see extensions worth between $7 and $10 million annually between bonuses and base salary.
Nice try though.
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I'm not worried about this at all.
Cribbs threatened to sit last year....he played. I've heard from other players demand new contracts and then make statements about how they'll never put on that same uniform again.......3 weeks later, "I'm glad we signed the extension and that I will be a <insert team name here> for the rest of my career." Give this time people. It's only the first step in a long walk in the offseason.
Cribbs will either be a Brown forever or we'll trade him while his value is crazy high. We win either way.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Quote:
jc...
This is just a thought, but what if Cribbs agent called Holmgren on Monday and said "Make an offer now or else?". So Holmgren flexed a lil muscle of his own.
The thing find interesting is the inclusion of the supposed offer numbers, and nothing on what they were looking for. To me that reads as "we will put out the information that supports our argument, and leave out details that don't." mentality.
This is back in the thread..
"We're going to formally put in a request for a trade," J.R. Rickert, Cribbs' other agent, told NFL Network's Jason La Canfora. "He will not set foot in that facility again. If they had offered even something like $2.5 million per season, we could have worked with them, but to me, this offer is indefensible."
So.. their WAS a number they quoted. I think 2 mil a year would do it.
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Quote:
I'm not worried about this at all.
Cribbs threatened to sit last year....he played. I've heard from other players demand new contracts and then make statements about how they'll never put on that same uniform again.......3 weeks later, "I'm glad we signed the extension and that I will be a <insert team name here> for the rest of my career." Give this time people. It's only the first step in a long walk in the offseason.
Cribbs will either be a Brown forever or we'll trade him while his value is crazy high. We win either way.
Good way to look at it,...!
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Disclaimer: This is Devil's Advocate. I do NOT want to get rid of Cribbs, not at all.
[Devil's Advocate]
What if Cribbs is a product of a very good special teams unit?
I will say that he is a total beast on the coverage units. There's no masking that.
But what if his returns are opened up a lot by the guys around him? He has tackle breaking ability, no doubt. But is there someone else out there who could do just as much in the return game? That I just don't know.
He is extremely fun to watch. Every time he gets the ball, it could turn into something big.
But is he just a product of good ST play?
[/Devil's Advocate]
Ok, I'll play with your devil's advocate scenario...
Let's say that it is more the system than it is of him as an athlete (like you I don't really believe that, the guy has a special gift for running in the open field)... but since you threw out the argument, let's assume there is somebody else out there..
If they have proven to have that ability, are they not also going to want the $3-4M that Cribbs wants? And if we go get a guy who is an unknown but later proves to have that ability, isn't he also going to want that kind of money?
I don't believe what Cribbs is asking for is out of line with what he brings to the field... and I think without him, the Browns will definitely feel it, especially in the areas of field position and the wildcat...
So if you have a guy that you KNOW can do it, he loves to be here (and let's face it, it's not a place that a lot of players love to be), and his demands are not all that unreasonable... then why not try to work with the guy instead of issuing a low-ball take it or leave it offer?
yebat' Putin
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I don't know man. I think this story is legit.
Holmgren said that it is unprecedented to redo a contract with 3 years remaining.
Mangini told Cribbs something would get done before the end of the season.
Cribbs agent contacted the Browns and recieved the $1.4 million offer.
Cribbs agent asked the Browns if they needed more time.
The Browns said the offer is 1.4 million now and will be the same next month and the month after.
- I don't think there is any haze here. I think the Browns played hardball, and the agent used the power that he had by going public.
That's it.
The Browns have a responsibility to get rid of distractions. This is a big distraction.
- Pay him 3 mill a year for the remaining 3 years
or
- Trade him
or
- Release him
Either way, I'm sick and tired of all the stupid drama with this team. It's childish and unprofessional. Get it resolved and lets move on.
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It seems like there are two different things going on here.
1. Cribbs' contract: We all can debate specific numbers until the cows come home (and I think we have), but I think everyone can agree that Cribbs should get a new contract that accurately reflects what he is worth to the team.
The way he's going about it is terrible, and the only person he's hurting is himself. From the elementary-school-level of writing, to the crybaby/woah-is-me tone of the email, releasing the email to the media, his dates and timelines not making sense, rushing Holmgren... and on and on.
First, I can certainly understand that Cribbs and his agent(s) (why do players have more than one agent?) are frustrated. Cribbs deserves more money, he was promised earlier, and that was thrown out the window when we had a regime change. Then Cribbs responds with a Pro-Bowl/career/record-breaking season. That's pretty awesome! But due to yet another regime change, they might not get that contract again. They're probably thinking "How many times is this going to happen!?" Then someone reminds them, "The squeaky wheel gets the grease". They decide they're going to make a public relations/media play to get the contract. The problem is, they obviously don't have the intelligence to pull something like this off.
Toad (Mr. OverToad, sir) has been hammering on one underlying fact. Cribbs has no leverage/foundation to stand on in order to make these little plays work. The man is in a contract (signed by him). Yes, your contract sucks; but you have nobody to blame but yourself. Demanding trades, new contracts before the end of the day is way out of your reach, Josh. A competent agent would have explained that to you.
Holmgren has been on the job for several DAYS. There's NO GM. What do they expect?
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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J/C..... I know this is probally rumor....I just heard on KNR.... that Cribbs cleaned out his locker....with no intentions on being back...yes just speculation....probally should`nt of posted this....who knows thou...
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Yeah well I heard on 930LIES that he is 100% happy with his contract and will play the rest of it out no questions asked. 
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
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Well good....I like that better ... even thou that station is LIES.... 
Last edited by DeisleDawg; 01/07/10 01:58 PM.
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Quote:
Looking at the Cribbs situation from the Browns point of view. His trade value may never be higher and with the contract he's under, it is cap friendly to other teams.
That's what I'm thinking. Exploring a trade could be the way to go.You never know what you may get unless you try.
two things could happen,both good for the organization.
1. another team makes an offer that can't be refused.
2. Cribbs' trade value is not that high giving the team leverage to say " see you are not all that after all"
' It's better to trade them too early than too late", Branch Rickey
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J/C..... I know this is probally rumor....I just heard on KNR.... that Cribbs cleaned out his locker....with no intentions on being back...yes just speculation....probally should`nt of posted this....who knows thou...
He has no choice if he remains on the team but to play. He will be fined starting day 1 of training camp to the tune of $14,000 per day (assuming that part of the CBA doesn't change). At a salary of 900k, that is just a smidge over 2 months.
Clean out your locker Josh, that's fine - but unless you get traded or retire, you'll be back...
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Joined: Nov 2008
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,468 |
Best case scenario:
The Browns counter with an offer that has a manageable base salary loaded up with incentives and bonuses.
They will also be sure to point out the clause that states Cribbs has to drag his agent out back and shot before he can sign the contract.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Don't all the players clean out their lockers at the end of the year?
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Joined: Nov 2008
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,468 |
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Quote:
jc...
This is just a thought, but what if Cribbs agent called Holmgren on Monday and said "Make an offer now or else?". So Holmgren flexed a lil muscle of his own.
The thing find interesting is the inclusion of the supposed offer numbers, and nothing on what they were looking for. To me that reads as "we will put out the information that supports our argument, and leave out details that don't." mentality.
This is back in the thread..
"We're going to formally put in a request for a trade," J.R. Rickert, Cribbs' other agent, told NFL Network's Jason La Canfora. "He will not set foot in that facility again. If they had offered even something like $2.5 million per season, we could have worked with them, but to me, this offer is indefensible."
So.. their WAS a number they quoted. I think 2 mil a year would do it.
Eh?
Rickert wanted the Browns to start at $2.5 million. That means he's looking for $3-$4 million per plus incentives.
I think too many fans are getting hung up on the dollars and not paying enough attention to the situation.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Joined: Dec 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,810 |
Quote:
J/C..... I know this is probally rumor....I just heard on KNR.... that Cribbs cleaned out his locker....with no intentions on being back...yes just speculation....probally should`nt of posted this....who knows thou...
jc..."All" the Browns players are cleaning out their lockers...the Browns season ended Sunday.
Cribbs can say anything he wants at this time...he's under contract to the Browns. BTW, he will not be released...
The best advice I can give to Browns fans...
DON'T FALL IN LOVE WITH ANY OF THE PLAYERS ON THIS ROSTER
With the exception of Mack and Thomas...
Every other player on the roster is an asset that the Browns can use to get better. Once Holmgren and Co. start building "their" roster, then the fans lovefest can begin.
It's the side of the NFL business that we fans hate but who knows better than Browns fans, that with a change in the coaching staff and front office...so comes changes to the roster and some of the players we have adopted and supported as our favorites.
Hopefully this change will be one where the fans can buy a players jersey knowing that player will be in Cleveland a while...
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Don't all the players clean out their lockers at the end of the year?
Don't know if they all do but on Monday or Tuesday of this week, they showed a number of players taking loads of stuff from lockers.. Looked to me that they were cleaning them out..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Cribbs will either be a Brown forever or we'll trade him while his value is crazy high. We win either way.
Maybe we could get a 1st round pick for him and draft the next Couch, GW, or William Green!!!! 
But if all we get is a late 1st or early second we might have to settle for a Quincy Morgan, Dennis Northcutt, or Chaun Thompson.
Boy, would we be tricking the other team Just thinking of all the studs we'd drafted in the 1st and 2nd rounds makes me want to trade him ASAP.
(Of course, if we DID get a 1st round pick for him we'd have to pay the rookie more money than Cribbs is looking for - even though they've never played a down.....)
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Of course, if we DID get a 1st round pick for him we'd have to pay the rookie more money than Cribbs is looking for - even though they've never played a down
And Bingo was his name - O . . .
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
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I'll second that,...GREAT point !
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum cribbs' agent: "we're done"
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