Bradford does have some questions. The big one for me is durability, but it's less about his shoulder and more about the fact I simply don't know if he can take NFL hits. He never took many in college.
Quinn was badly overhyped, and even though he fell in the draft, he still went too high. I was vocal about him being IMHO a 2nd round prospect, not a 1st rounder. Too bad we bought into the hype.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
Quote: I don't want to demean Bradford on the basis of one highlight video, but that looked a lot like a bunch of short crossing patterns with a lot of YAC by some gifted receivers.
You brought up Montana.. isn't that about all he did? Short crossing patterns,, lots of YAC from gifted receivers......
Frankly, I'd love to have that on this team..it would be productive and a helluva good time watching it...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
I know Sam did play in a spread offense. However didn't he take a lot more snaps under center then most spread offense QBs? I know he did it a lot freshmen year. However I didn't really get a chance to watch him unless he was in a prime time game.
Any "questions" are going to make the guys on this board jittery. That's a given.
To spend another 1st round pick on a quarterback is going to immediately stir up a bunch of rant, emotion, and concern -- when there are "questions" that is even going to make it ten times worse.
The problem is that I think we have to roll the dice again.
One question I asked, that wasn't responded to is:
What if we have to trade up? What kind of kaos will that cause? If we have to leapfrog the Seahawks, and possibly the Redskins, how would that go over?
Would it be worth it? If Holmgen were to do it, would you trust that Bradford must be good enough to warrant the price?
( I assume we are talking at the very least our 2nd, in addition to the swap of 1st's, if we have to jump both of them ).
Yep.........I saw a stat that said Brady took 73 % of his snaps from the gun this season...lol....crazy to think I would live to see that.
Bradford is the most accurate QB to come out in years (and your right Deep probably since Peyton in that regard), and has all the intangibles you would ever want. If the FO doesn't think that BQ can be fixed (and if you improve his crappy footwork that would help a TON) then I would trade up to get him if necessary. He is just so much better than anyone who is coming down the pipeline, and plays a position that is a must have in the NFL.
BQ can become a lot more accurate if he could ever get his footwork corrected no doubt, but the question is would it be enough to make him an effective QB??? I have my doubts. If MH and Co. do to they would be wise to bite the bullet and draft Bradford.............even if it means trading up to do it.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
Question for you guys on Quinn. One thing I notice about the NFL is that they like to draft a Qb then change his mechanics. Has Quinn changed his mechanics since we drafted him? Didn't pay him too much attention in college but what I saw looked much more accurate. Did we change his mechanics and ruin it like we did with couch? I remember one of the 1st stories I read after we drafted couch was Palmer changing the way the guy gripped the football.
Just curious if any of you guys paid that much attention to him in college and can compare to now.
Am I perfect? No Am I trying to be a better person? Also no
he is a bigger guy, he can run somewhat, he has a very strong arm, and he is very accurate
Clausen was Weises handpicked QB...Weis inherited Quinn, but Clausen was the guy Weis handpicked himself...Clausen is a much better prspect than Quinn...the only thing the two have in common is they both went to the same school thats it.
We have ruined neither Couch nor Quinn. They were simply faulty prior to arriving here and didn't improve.
Mechanics are part of the equation in making a QB accurate, but conversely proper mechanics cannot guarantee accuracy.
To put it in simple terms, fixing Quinn won't guarantee accuracy. He's been inaccurate when showing perfect mechanics. He had a scatter-arm in college and has one in the pro's.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
I think what ruined Couch was getting physically beat up behind a non-existent offensive line. But my point is that these Qb's come in and as they are trying to learn a new offense, a new city, new teammates and how to be an NFL Qb; teams change their mechanics. It is awful tough to learn and be comfortable with what is going on around you when you are focused on each and every little thing. I really believe it delays their development. Personally I would give them a year to learn the NFL then in their 1st off-season try to change their mechanics if need be.
My question was: Did we fiddle around with Quinn's mechanics or are they the same as when he was in college? Changing mechanics may result in improvement in the long run but in the short run it often results in a poorer performance.
I saw you had some input on the golf club thread in the tailgate lot. When was the last time you changed your golf swing's mechanics? In the long run, improving those mechanics may make you more accurate and consistent but the 1st few times out your score is worse because you can't just go out and perform, you have to think about every little thing. Over time your swing gets better. That is my question.. If we changed Quinn's mechanics then we could expect him to improve as this new throwing motion gets ingrained and becomes 2nd nature. If we didn't then we cannot expect much change.
Am I perfect? No Am I trying to be a better person? Also no
Absolutely playing behind a tough line hinders development. No disagreement there.
Quote: My question was: Did we fiddle around with Quinn's mechanics or are they the same as when he was in college? Changing mechanics may result in improvement in the long run but in the short run it often results in a poorer performance.
You mentioned the golf thread, so to borrow what my swing-coach always tells me, "In order to get better, you're going to get worse first."
So you can bet we tried to improve his mechanics. He probably got a little worse during camp but should have gotten better as time went on.
Now here's the problem with Quinn: He had a long-standing reputation in college of being wild in his longer throws, and losing his mechanics and nerve in the face of pressure. The biggest problem with Quinn continues to be those two issues, so it's not about fiddling with his mechanics setting him back, but rather a lack of development on the issues he already had.
Again, I do agree that it's hard to progress when the line isn't playing well, but that isn't where Quinn should be judged. He should be judged when the line does play well and he has time to drop, set, and throw. When he does, he mechanics are sound, but the throws are still off the mark. In that regard he's much like Anderson: No amount of mechanical adjustments are going to fix inaccuracy issues.
One of the tells on Quinn were camp-reports where he wasn't all that accurate in 7-on-7's. Those are perfect circumstances where a QB should be at his best, yet Quinn wasn't.
There simply haven't been enough good signs from him over the last couple of seasons. He is just like Couch in that regard: Both didn't get ideal help, but both didn't do enough on their own to warrant optimism. There's still a little hope for him, but he's almost reached the point where Frye was right before he was dumped.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
If we have to move up and deal with the Lions, Bucs, or Chiefs do we do it? Or do we just go with Haden and ....
We have to do something, we can't just put our heads in the sand.
In retrospect Vers was right about giving up that second in order to move up and get Winslow. We were taken. If MH does deal with them and gives up an additional second, or a good player, it would be a huge gamble. On the other hand I've reached a point where I believe he has to do it.
If I'm Holmgren and have to give up one of my 3rd's to move up past some team rumored to be interested in him, yeah, I'd do it.
Quinn isn't done here, but he's on the hottest of hot seats. Bringing in someone like Bradford, who is recovering and would likely sit on most teams, is an ideal situation for everyone. It allows Quinn to have one more chance at the gig, and it allows Bradford to sit, learn, and heal.
If a guy really likes a player, he'll deal to move up. I would consider moving up to get Bradford, but only if the tea-leaves say someone ahead of us is looking at him.
Here's the problem. So much can happen between now and the combine, individual workouts, and pro-days.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
Late last year I said that I'd be really .. ticked off if we drafted a QB in round 1. I saw a team that did norhing well, and a team that a new QB would almost certainly not impact dramaticall.
Then things started to change for me. We started running the ball. On everyone. No matter the situation or circumstance. Unfortunately, neither QB was able to take advantage of this sudden development of a competent running game. That being said .... a team that can run the ball well is a team that can support a young QB. (Much like the Jets did this past year)
The offense has become a "yeah but" situation to me .......
. Yeah but .. we can now run the ball. Yeah but, we could be solid up front with a new RT. Yeah but, Evan Moore might be a solid guy at TE. Yeah but, rookie WRs typically take a year to develop, and Massaquoi had a great year despite having rather pathetic QB play ......
Now a QB just might make sense.
I don't know that I'd give up the farm to move up for Bradford ...... but if his shoulder is sound, I think I could be convinced to take him with our 1st.
The only thing is ....... I just have a feeling that we're going to have our guy by the time the draft rolls around via trade.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
My gut .... which has definitely led me astray in the past ..... still tells me that a young veteran QB could be the preference, rather than a high draft pick.
Kolb is likely high on the Browns radar. Maybe a Kyle Orton. Possibly a Matt Leinart, depending on what his future in Aeizona looks like. Maybe a Kellen Clemons. Who knows?
Given Holmgren's past though, I just have a feeling that they have targetted someone ..... and it's not a rookie.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Cribbs can run, but he can't pass. Then there's a guy like Tebow, who had no success running the ball at the Senior Bowl, who won't be able to run in the NFL.
Very few players are talented enough to run and pass well enough for that to work. And it is so much more difficult to hand the ball off out of the shotgun with success.
Quote: One question I asked, that wasn't responded to is:
What if we have to trade up? What kind of kaos will that cause? If we have to leapfrog the Seahawks, and possibly the Redskins, how would that go over?
I think we have too many needs to trade up and pay a steep price for one guy... If we were a 10-6 team that was being held back by QB play, maybe... but we are a 5 win team with holes all over the place, this is the year to fill as many holes as possible.. next year is the year to take the QB position seriously.
Cleveland isn't going to trade up to take anyone..the thought is get the best player on the board or aquire more picks..but to stay at 7 is more appealing unless Berry/Haden/Bradford are gone. Then you try to move down a bit.
Maybe a better question is ... what do you think, just take a shot, that Holmgren is going to do about the quarterback situation?
That's when it gets tough.
Leinart (I doubt it, I suspect Holmgren would prefer Bradford), Kolb (most on the board agree that the Eagles are not going to do it, not going to happen), if McNabb leaves the Eagles I think he will probably go somewhere else, Hasslebeck doesn't change the Bradford situation we would probably try to bring in both of them.
How about this one -- swap picks with the Chiefs and give BQ back to Charlie?
I don't understand the "next year" talk because I've tried to weigh the possibilities for next year and .... not comfortable.
What does Holmgren do about the Quarterback situation?
it's still a month away from FA so anything can and will happen..but specifically the draft..unless Bradford is sitting there at 7,I expect him to go defense for the first two picks and get a mid round QB who can run the WCO.
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