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And if they tried that and said some one had a better offer and then the Raiders said fine take it how do the browns come back and say they are willing to take the Raiders deal?
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Thats not the only tactic available to drive the price up.
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
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the thing is you can always do that with any purchase/sale. you can always hold out for the better deal. at some point, though, you can't keep holding out for better and at the end, if you have something that you're happy with, you pull the trigger. this isn't about whether or not we could've gotten a better deal because if it were, we'd always be disappointed. why didn't we get at least a 5th in the 2011 draft? etc etc.
ultimately, i'm sure mangini and holmgren decided on what they'd take for wimbley and i wouldn't be surprised if they thought they could get a 4th. when they start getting offers in the 3rd, they may have just taken the best one and be done with it. could we have gotten a pick where we'd pick slightly earlier? maybe. could this pick still be a round ahead of what they thought they'd get for wimbley? maybe. did we get good enough value that we shouldn't be dwelling over this? i think so. i'm willing to give our regime the benefit of the doubt on this one.
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free...like I said, we could have asked for a late round pick a year or two down the road...we could have offered the raiders a late round pick and Wimbley for their #69...
There are all kind of possibilities that can added to a deal that makes it more palatable.
But, when you get into the arena of making trades and deals, you have be ready to lose a deal in a bluff or take a little less compensation, just to make a statement that your going to play a deal tough.
Al Davis played tough, likely refused to let the Browns have the #69, and he won. Al Davis was willing to gamble on losing the deal to another team, rather than cave in...Heckert and Holmgren were not willing to gamble.
Let's hope the Browns don't get a reputation of being easy to bluff.
Again, not a huge deal, but Al Davis got the best of this deal.
Last edited by mac; 03/15/10 01:18 PM.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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I feel you are looking to deep into this or assuming something.
IMO i feel that MH and TH got the lowest of the offered deal. Do you believe we would not take the lower? Maybe i dont understand what you meen but i just have to believe we took the best deal we could get.....maybe we have to just let all the info come out.
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
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Quote:
free...like I said, we could have asked for a late round pick a year or two down the road...we could have offered the raiders a late round pick and Wimbley for their #69...
Mac...you could say that about every trade ever made. We dont know what was asked for or offered or what was turned down for that matter.
I'm really lost on what you meen.
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
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Assuming #86, going off of GBN's Top 100 (from #80 to #90): Wimbley is bringing us one of these guys:
Jerome Murphy CB South Florida
Cam Thomas DT North Carolina
Mardy Gilyard WR Cincinnati (KR)
Brandon Ghee CB Wake Forest
*Reshad Jones DB Georgia
Anthony McCoy TE Southern California
Eric Norwood LB South Carolina
*Dezmon Briscoe WR Kansas
Dorin Dickerson TE Pittsburgh (HB)
Dan LeFevour QB Central Michigan
Dennis Pitta TE BYU
*Thaddeus Gibson LB Ohio State
Pretty much any one of them would be welcome, in my eyes. And I think that the day-to-day, game-to-game impact from any of them will be at least what Wimbley brought to us.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Brandon Ghee CB Wake Forest Eric Norwood LB South Carolina Dan LeFevour QB Central Michigan There my friend could be number 86. 
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
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Quote:
I'm disappointed that Heckert and Holmgren could not get the Raiders #69 pick (5th pick in 3rd round) for Wimbley.
You gotta kinda factor in that this is the last year of Wimbley contract so next season, he's gonna want a payday.. specially if he takes off and has a good year with the Raiders..
Then again, according to all published reports I've seen, there could be a work stoppage next year also... Who knows...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Brandon Ghee CB Wake Forest
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
Brandon Ghee CB Wake Forest
i've been pimping him too.. my only problem with him is that he has had only 1 INT in his entire collegiate career. Being in the ACC.. I think he should have more than that..
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dong...again, your assuming the raiders know what the other deal are...
And you're assuming you know something that the rest of the world doesn't, professing that the Browns got taken to the cleaners by the Raiders. 
Methinks you have absolutely nothing to base your opinion on other than your own perception of what you think Wimbley should be worth.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I agree. People tend to overvalue browns players, and Wimp was as overvalued as they come.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
I agree. People tend to overvalue browns players, and Wimp was as overvalued as they come.
The other thing that some folks do is to assume that if a guy was a 1st round pick, that when you trade him, getting anything less than a 1st is like getting ripped off.
The two aren't related at all.,
In our case, Edwards, KW, Wimbley and Quinn, all first round picks, weren't worth any more than what we got for them...
Buyers set the price,, something is only worth what someone will pay for it. Not sure why that concept is so hard for some to grasp?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
I agree. People tend to overvalue browns players, and Wimp was as overvalued as they come.
How many areguments has there ben over the likes of Warren,various DBs,Wimbly,Andra Davis,DQ and so on?
All of them overrated in here..but when you say that player could be upgraded ,posters want to spit out we're not content..
Why the blankety blank should I accept mediocre players when I look around the league and see better players at the same positions?
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Absolutely, true Daman. On the radio here yesterday that was the talk. All we gave up to get Quinn and we got squat in return. And this was from someone who was in the NFL, though for a short time, Krenzel.
Unfortunately, these 1st round picks did not play to that level, so they are valued less. Quinn, Edwards, Wimbley, Warren - none of them played like a 1st round pick. What we got for them is what their value became because of their NFL production, not their draft position.
It wokrs both ways. If New England was looking to deal Tom Brady, his late-round draft position would not be a factor in the price.
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Great post. My only problem with what we did get, is that it now creates questions about Vickers. And they'll get answered one way or the other, despite what I might think.
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Quote:
I agree. People tend to overvalue browns players, and Wimp was as overvalued as they come.
And speaking of over-valued, has anyone noticed that Andra Davis was released by the Donks?
Case in point..............Davis was finished as a starter during his last two years here. The FLAWED perception was that he was really a good player on a bad team, and that this past year as the starter for the Donks on a good defense showed he was still solid.
He wasn't, and isn't, and the Donks dumped him because of it.
The fact is that all these players that we dump rarely ever have solid post-Browns careers. There's always this fear that they'll suddenly turn into great players. It's a natural human failing.
Wimbley can be a decent player as long as he's in a role best suited to what he does best. I think he can have a nice career as a situational rusher/rotational DE. As a 3-4 OLB, he's a distinctly inferior player.
Warren, Davis, Wimbley.............these were always players who started for us, and unfortunately represented what's wrong with our draft selections. We could never be a good defense until these players were gone. Lucky for us the Raiders are the runaway NFL franchise run by a tapioca-brained old dodder who was willing to give up the highest pick for another bum who doesn't fit.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Lucky for us the Raiders are the runaway NFL franchise run by a tapioca-brained old dodder who was willing to give up the highest pick for another bum who doesn't fit.
Sometimes I think the commissioner should just split up the raiders draft picks among the other teams and just let davis have who he wants, since he's always taking other people's trash and he'll throw away his draft picks anyway.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Brandon Ghee CB Wake Forest
i've been pimping him too.. my only problem with him is that he has had only 1 INT in his entire collegiate career. Being in the ACC.. I think he should have more than that..
Just a general note Turk, I kinda root for WF, ust becuase when I moved down here everyone rooted for the big 3, UNC, Duke, NC State. So naturally, being the ornery midwestern Yank that I am.......I began to pull for Wake  .
I watch them when I can (when they don't interfer with App. State or OSU) and EVERY team that played WFU would throw away from Ghee. He was that good.
Born and breed with OSU, App. State alumni, but bleed orange and brown.
Go ARMY......Beat Navy!!!!!!
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Unfortunately, these 1st round picks did not play to that level, so they are valued less
Exactly.. A guy gets drafted in the 1st.. there are certain expectations.. if they aren't met,, regardless of reason, the value of the guy drops. pretty simple really.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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And speaking of over-valued, has anyone noticed that Andra Davis was released by the Donks?
Case in point..............Davis was finished as a starter during his last two years here. The FLAWED perception was that he was really a good player on a bad team, and that this past year as the starter for the Donks on a good defense showed he was still solid.
Wonder why when posters are told what a player is, they bring up stats..as if they can't actually watch the game and see if he's doing what he's supposed..yet when you watch other teams and see players at the same position making plays ,they shrudge it off...I'm in the same boat with DQ.
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Quote:
And speaking of over-valued, has anyone noticed that Andra Davis was released by the Donks?
Case in point..............Davis was finished as a starter during his last two years here. The FLAWED perception was that he was really a good player on a bad team, and that this past year as the starter for the Donks on a good defense showed he was still solid.
Wonder why when posters are told what a player is, they bring up stats..as if they can't actually watch the game and see if he's doing what he's supposed..yet when you watch other teams and see players at the same position making plays ,they shrudge it off...I'm in the same boat with DQ.
We're in that boat together.
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We're gonna need a bigger boat.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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Quote:
And speaking of over-valued, has anyone noticed that Andra Davis was released by the Donks?
toad...for some reason, the donk like our leftovers... 
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Holy Cow... I mean, I didn't know he was even being shopped.. wow..
Wonder what we got for him?
The other day, in response to someone who said we are rebuilding,, I said, no, I think it's more reloading...
GEESH,, I've been wrong many times in my life... MANY TIMES,,
I guess I can chalk up another time I'm wrong...
wow..
I agree, you must need a LOT of chalk.
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It sounds like you're eating too much chalk. You must have grabbed that instead of the ham sandwich. I am so hungry right now... 
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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j/c Quote:
ORLANDO, Fla. -- Don't pencil in your Browns roster just yet. There is another transaction -- or two -- in the works.
Coach Eric Mangini said at NFL owners meetings this morning that the trade of linebacker Kamerion Wimbley to Oakland for a third-round pick was partly done to create an opportunity for another trade.
"It's not that we didn't like Kam or didn't think he was doing good things," Mangini said. "It's just that having that pick (No. 75 overall) allows us to have just some more versatility.
"It's difficult to part with a character guy (like Wimbley). I really like Kam. I really do. It wasn't a function of wanting to move him. It was more of a function of where do we have depth? Where can we trade to give us some more ability to address other areas?"
The trade of Wimbley gave the Browns five selections in the first 87 picks. They also own the Jets' third-round pick, plus their own in the first three rounds.
"A little bit of this was done in anticipation of being able to get some other things done that will involve draft picks," Mangini said.
It's possible the Browns could use one of their extra picks in trading for, or signing, a restricted free agent that requires draft-choice compensation.
Mangini said the club will revisit these trade talks next week.
"Until it's done, you can't guarantee it," he said. "But it gives us flexibility if we want to do that. If not, then you get another third-round draft pick, which is really a good spot to draft, whether we want to address the secondary or someplace else."
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/03/cleveland_browns_coach_eric_ma_13.html
interesting to hear more stuff on the way, though holmgren alluded to that before. more interesting and something i find encouraging is how mangini is willing to be more open (though i think he's always been up-front with us). i think he's genuinely trying to learn from MH.
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Quote:
"It's difficult to part with a character guy (like Wimbley). I really like Kam. I really do. It wasn't a function of wanting to move him. It was more of a function of where do we have depth? Where can we trade to give us some more ability to address other areas?"
Uh-huh.
You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.
I wish the world was such that coaches and GM's could straight-talk. If they could, the above statement would have gone something like this:
Quote:
"Kam is a great character guy, the kind of character that I wish all players had. Unfortunately for Kam and the Browns, he never lived up to expectations. We needed to get better at the OLB position if we're going to get better as a team. The Raiders were willing to pay the highest price for a player that doesn't fit our 3-4, so we jumped at the chance. We wish Kam would have been more than what he was here, but we thank him for his time and wish him good fortune in his life moving forward."
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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LOL Lipstick on a pig..  You are probably right about the NON-PC way to say it.. But it won't happen..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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We wish Kam would have been more than what he was here
Come ‘on Toad…
That’s not “straight-talk”… That’s flat out torpedoing the guy… I would hate to see that king of thing out our coaches…
And besides… If that’s really how team feels about player why on earth wouldn’t there quote be exactly what was stated… I would think that’s exactly the kind of player you’d love to see other teams pick up…
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My guess is that we had a position where we could put in the backup and not loss much production so we acquired a third round pick. When the comment is made that there is more to come I would bet that pick will be used to move up in the draft. Probably for a QB.
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Quote:
You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.
Are you speaking from personal experience again???? I thought you were past the pig kissing days..... 
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Have you ever kissed a pig?
Then don't judge. 
A guy gets lonely sometimes...........
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
That’s not “straight-talk”… That’s flat out torpedoing the guy… I would hate to see that king of thing out our coaches…
Yeah, but think of why you would hate reading something like that, then consider how cool the world would be if straight-talk could be conducted without soliciting those negative feelings.  That's what I'm talkin' about. In that kind of world, we could always have the straight-truth of all things. It's an impossible but cool concept..............
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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who out there is a 3rd round compensation DB. ??
Also sounds like they feel the LB corps is at least satisfactory.
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Did you ever wake up with " Coyote Ugly " 
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I will admit to having gone to bed at 2am with a 10, but woke up at 10am with a 2.
How in the Hell does that happen *L*
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
How in the Hell does that happen *L*
Like this.
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
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