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That's where you go wrong my friend. In my opinion, multiple sections of the Bible are not meant to be looked at literally.
And I would agree. But, there are a group of people who insist on adhering to a literal interpretation of the whole thing; people like Don McElroy of the texas board of education. He states that he believe in the literal interpretation of the bible as it pertains to everything. Need to know how the earth was created? Look in genesis. That was what i meant when i referenced biblical literalism.
As for the scripture, I'll have to get back to you on that. I've got a big paper and a bunch of reading that I'm in the middle of for class tomorrow that takes precedence 
There are no sacred cows.
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Stopped reading after that.
Then you missed an interesting article. I can't wait to see what the archaelogical dig will uncover.
I agree.....why would non believers go looking for the Ark?
Or, if they said they didn't find it, would that be proof it never existed?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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What amazes me is this ...
The major civilizations of the region all had a similar story. The Sumarians, Babylonians, and Jews all had a flood story.
Fake, right?
There was an Ice Age that lasted until about 8000 BC. When it ended, the ice sheets melted and receded rather quickly. There was massive flooding ... especially in valleys and near bodies of water.(which is where people lived .. because hey needed water to survive)
Given that an area that is today desert was once lush and teeming with life, there was obviously a great deal of water in the area. The "Cradle of Civilization" only became that because of the warmer temperatures, additional water, and incredible growing conditions. From that time to today, the area has become increasingly arid, and much of the plant life has died off. The waters gave, and then dried up and took away. It wasn't an immediate process ..... but as waters continued to nourish the desert, it flourished. Once the benefits of the flooding began to reverse, areas began to dry back up, and die off,
There were 3 major civilizations, the Sumarians, Babylonians, and Jews who all have a flood story. Real? Myth? I don't know that this will ever be settled with absolute certainty .... but the conditions that would create massive flooding would certainly exist ..... and in certain areas of the Middle East, there would have been devastating and overwhelming loss of life and property.Most likely those who survived would have done so by leaving the area completely, and moving on to settle elsewhere. In great disasters today, people are seperated. This happens evern with incredible technology to allow contact. If people were forced from their homes by flooding .... believing their families, friends, and neighbors dead would be perfectly understandable. What was the "Whole World" to man of that day? Probably from one mountain top to another.
Just about every great story of the Bible has basis in fact somewhere. There are plausible causes and reasons why things could have happened exactly was written. The plagues on Egypt were examined and found to have possible causes. The parting of the Red Sea was also found to have a plausible explanation. Unfortunately, once religion enters into the equation, the possibility that the Biblical stories could, in fact, be true is throw out the window by many claiming "scientific integrity" or such bunk.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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according to a sensational claim by evangelical explorers
Stopped reading after that.
This type of attitude amazes me. The science of archeology was started by evangelicals looking for biblical proof. Following the clues in a mythological story led Heinrich Schliemann to the discovery of Troy, which was believed to be nothing more than a parable.
I am not a religious person. I've had plenty of arguments with religious people on this board about their single mindedness about their religion. Just about every group of people across the world have stories about a great flood. If following biblical or other clues leads someone to the actual ark, that would be a fascinating find. If they somehow confirm this discovery will that really change me? No.
Does finding Noah's ark prove god's existance? No. A great many christians will find it does validate their beliefs. Personally, I'd be more inclinded than ever to believe the Jews are right.
Finding a structure like this (no one has proven it's a boat yet) that high up in the mountains could reveal a great many things about our planet. It's quite possible that it's a forgotten monistary or similar structrure built during a much warmer time on our planet. I would like to see them dig this structure out so I can learn something new.
Thanks.
I know you aren't a "religious" person, but also know, from my experience at least, know you are a person with a level head.
You start finding wood above where you should find wood and it should at least make you scratch your head and wonder how it got there.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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according to a sensational claim by evangelical explorers
Stopped reading after that.
It's a shame that you are that narrow minded.
yebat' Putin
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What amazes me is this ...
The major civilizations of the region all had a similar story. The Sumarians, Babylonians, and Jews all had a flood story.
Fake, right?
I could say that many civilizations believed that there were many gods who controlled different things, and these civilizations existed at various times and most had no contact with each other, so that must mean they were on to something, right? But that would be a pretty flimsy argument.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
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Cultures from completely different areas also have flood myths. As described, there was a lot of localized flooding at the end of the last Ice Age. But no evidence of anything worldwide.
OK, they found an old wooden structure on mount Ararat. Except that the bible does not say Noah landed on mount Ararat, but "the mountains of Ararat", which may lie in a completely different region. Also, there are other, higher mountains in the vicinity.
The satellite photos do not show anything that is in any way identifiable.
Finally, those pictures show nails. I am reasonably certain that this technology was completely unknown in Noah's time. Although there is significant question as to when exactly that time was.
That people are looking for the Arc, I have no problem with. To proclaim at this point that there is proof that they have found it shows the non-scientific nature of most of this type of "research". The last guy who found old wood on that mountain apparently took it up there with him, according to some who were with him at the time. I recall he was French, back in the 50's or 60's.
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Really? I get nothing for Gilgamesh?
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according to a sensational claim by evangelical explorers
Stopped reading after that.
It's a shame that you are that narrow minded.
That's not being narrow, it's a sound observation. These 'explorers' have something to gain by claiming they've found Noah's ark without any scientific or seemingly relevant evidence..
Last edited by Doolox; 04/29/10 04:06 PM.
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according to a sensational claim by evangelical explorers
Stopped reading after that.
It's a shame that you are that narrow minded.
That's not being narrow, it's a sound observation. These 'explorers' have something to gain by claiming they've found Noah's ark without any scientific or seemingly relevant evidence..
I cannot imagine how an intelligent reasonable person would believe this crap. If an independent group found it, ok, I am listening. I am not buying ANYTHING and I mean ANYTHING evangelists found when it pertains to something in the bible as fact. If they told me God made the sky blue, I would ask them how much money they wanted.
They have nothing to loose and everything to gain by calling it noahs ark.
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according to a sensational claim by evangelical explorers
Stopped reading after that.
This type of attitude amazes me. The science of archeology was started by evangelicals looking for biblical proof. Following the clues in a mythological story led Heinrich Schliemann to the discovery of Troy, which was believed to be nothing more than a parable.
I am not a religious person. I've had plenty of arguments with religious people on this board about their single mindedness about their religion. Just about every group of people across the world have stories about a great flood. If following biblical or other clues leads someone to the actual ark, that would be a fascinating find. If they somehow confirm this discovery will that really change me? No.
Does finding Noah's ark prove god's existance? No. A great many christians will find it does validate their beliefs. Personally, I'd be more inclinded than ever to believe the Jews are right.
Finding a structure like this (no one has proven it's a boat yet) that high up in the mountains could reveal a great many things about our planet. It's quite possible that it's a forgotten monistary or similar structrure built during a much warmer time on our planet. I would like to see them dig this structure out so I can learn something new.
Not for one second am I buying that a group of evangelists are trying to teach me something about our planet. They are trying to force a mythical story down my throat as fact, so they can profit. I went to 12 years of Catholic schools and have been a catholic my whole life, so I have heard it all, and most of it revolves around the almighty dollar or power over people.
I believe in God, I don't believe in people.
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I wasn't going to weigh in until their was evidence (otherwise it's just well-based skepticism on my part) But the case is already starting to crumble: http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/802106--is-the-latest-noah-s-ark-discovery-a-fakehttp://www.aolnews.com/world/article/noa...a-hoax/19459208The first article is listed: Quote:
Is the latest Noah’s Ark discovery a fake?
Kurdish workers carted wood up Mt. Ararat in order to fake the discovery of Noah’s Ark, an archeologist who worked on the dig says.
On Tuesday, a group of Asian Christian evangelicals held a press conference in Turkey to announce they were “99.9 per cent” sure they’d found the biblical boat.
The claim was greeted with immediate skepticism, which seems increasingly well founded.
The bible suggests that the ark came to rest after 40 days of flooding in the “mountains of Ararat.” The mountain, located in Turkey near the border with Armenia, is an inhospitable place for both geographic and political reasons. And even the translation is suspect.
The bible specifies that the landing spot is “Urartu.” Over time Urartu became Ararat, a name that was given to the mountain long after the bible was written. So it’s not exactly clear where the bible’s authors meant. Thus, it’s slightly suspect that the ark should show up exactly where we want it to be.
Nonetheless, Ararat has drawn a steady stream of explorers for decades. Many of them have “discovered” the ark.
“I don’t know of any expedition that ever went looking for the ark and didn't find it,” said archeologist Paul Zimansky recently told National Geographic.
Ditto Noah’s Ark Ministries International. The evangelical-archeological group claims to have found the remains of the ark in a series of caverns near the peak of Ararat in 2008. Video footage provided by the group shows incongruous wooden beams jutting through the ice in a cavern. They also claim that carbon dating puts the age of the wooden beams discovered at 4,800 years old.
The scientific-creationist movement (yes, such a thing exists) has suggested that the entire radio-carbon dating process must be recalibrated. This is their way of explaining how objects can be shown to be tens of thousands of years old on a planet they believe was created out of the void 6,000 years ago.
So even they doubt Noah’s Ark Ministries, since in their time-compressed radio-carbon world, 4,800 years is far too young for the ark.
Now, someone within the Noah’s Ark Ministries camp is rubbishing the discovery.
Randall Price, an evangelical Christian, was apparently one of the original archeologists hired by the group. He has been circulating an email, alleging that the wooden beams were taken from a site near the Black Sea and then planted on Ararat. Price has stopped talking about the incident, and is involved in some sort of financial dispute with Noah’s Ark Ministries. But he did acknowledge the email to the Christian Science Monitor.
For now, the doubters have no way of directly confronting the evidence. The Noah’s Ark Ministries team intends to keep the ark’s purported location secret until they get it designated a UNESCO World Heritage site.
~Lyuokdea
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That's not being narrow, it's a sound observation. These 'explorers' have something to gain by claiming they've found Noah's ark without any scientific or seemingly relevant evidence..
So it's sort of like "global warming" then? 
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What I'm curious to know is what exactly they would have proved if it was in fact the real ark?
"YES! Turns out God is an angry, vengeful being who got angry at His own creation for their own nature despite being made in His image!"
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
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I used to feel the same way you do. Read a few passages from the Bible bro. - What I've found is that God isn't vengeful at all. Rather, God wants us to understand what harmony amongst each other is.
The Bible isn't an instruction manual for how to worship God. Rather, it is a guide for how to live peacefully with each other on the planet Earth. - I'm telling you man, read it with this in mind, and you will find some of the most brilliant messages that have ever been written.
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They haven't even proven that it's a boat yet. I still wonder how they're going to get it out. If this is a structure of any sort, it's historical value is immense. I really want to know how a structure was buried in ice and preserved. If it's a building, it would have had to be built before the peak was covered in ice, which is far more than the supposed 5000 years for the ark to have landed there. This could be very interesting to follow, even if it does turn out to be a hoax.
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What I've found is that God isn't vengeful at all. Rather, God wants us to understand what harmony amongst each other is.
God isn't vengeful? Tell that to the Egyptians, Moses, or to the residents of Sodom and Gomorrah, and Jericho. God really didn't chill out until he had a kid.
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God isn't vengeful? Tell that to the Egyptians, Moses, or to the residents of Sodom and Gomorrah, and Jericho. God really didn't chill out until he had a kid.
Did God do these things or did we do them? I know God sat and watched as we tortured and killed his son - how did God respond to that?
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Like I said, god didn't chill out until he had kids. BTW, if we actually hit that revelations part, where do you not see vengence?
God destroyed Sodom and Gomorah. He ordered Joshua to destroy Jericho and kill every living thing inside. He killed all the idol worshiping jews in the desert. God brought the plagues to torture the Egyptians.
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You're asking me where I don't see vengence? I don't feel that God is vengeful. I feel that God wants us to live in harmony. - Pure and simple. Name something that proves me wrong. - Go into detail please, don't just simply throw two words out there. Give a detailed example. Please.
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You're asking me where I don't see vengence? I don't feel that God is vengeful. I feel that God wants us to live in harmony. - Pure and simple. Name something that proves me wrong. - Go into detail please, don't just simply throw two words out there. Give a detailed example. Please.
Is the part where he says 'vengeance is mine' detailed enough?
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God left me a tree blossom on my walking trail today.....maybe a tulip tree, but really have no clue.....just looked down and it was there.
Tie that to a e-mail I sent to my son today about him blossoming and there is no doubt in my mind God left it there for me.
God is here all the time.....we just have to be aware and connect the dots.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Because if you really, really, really want it to be true, then it will become scientifically so, at least to some degree,
And for the same reasons, so many truly believe mankind is the sole reason for warming trends in the earth, that has been through hot humid jungle periods and ice ages all through it's history.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I am not a religious person. I've had plenty of arguments with religious people on this board about their single mindedness about their religion. Just about every group of people across the world have stories about a great flood. If following biblical or other clues leads someone to the actual ark, that would be a fascinating find. If they somehow confirm this discovery will that really change me? No.
Totally agree with this. I'm not religious in the least. I believe the concepts of most religions are indeed very good. Most of them promote peace and love. Who can really argue that being a bad thing? I tend to take a little from everything and form a morals system based around it.
Anyhow, fwiw I tend to believe every culture has a flood myth, because they have all actually experienced some sort of flood in history. Think about the last ice age...there was a lot...a LOT...of water tied up in the glaciers. It all melted pretty quickly. People tended to live around water sources before irrigation was possible. I'd imagine a great deal of the streams...etc that they lived around were fed by glaciers and glacial lakes. Dramatically increase melt rate, BAM giant flood.
The one example I can think of is the Black Sea used to be a much smaller freshwater lake, Then as sea levels rose it was flooded by water from the Mediterranean. I remember reading somewhere that the rate of flooding was 100x the flow of Niagara Falls...or more. That's one big flood. One that I wouldn't mind having an Arc to ride out. 
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Oh, dear. Look what I started!  "No one is convinced the bible means what it says. They're convinced it says what they mean." - General Observation I don't mean to be so sarcastic and scathing, but I am, so that's the way it comes out. In all seriousness, I find plenty good things I agree with in Christian philosophy (namely basic human compassion and an altruistic approach) and find many things to disagree with as well. My lack of belief (in any supreme being or dogmas) lies in mostly what's outside of that and the origins the human species, the earth, our solar system, etc. that extends beyond. A total approach of all that, history, biology, psychology, leads me elsewhere in my spiritual life and trying to answer these age old questions about the cosmos. I'd LOVE for it to be true. I just personally don't find it to be all that plausible on the above levels. I love life and people as well as act like a normal, more-than-decent human being, there's just no higher power on Planet Joshua. 
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
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Is the part where he says 'vengeance is mine' detailed enough?
Context please... Not just a couple words. Please list the entire passage or a couple sentences from the passage.
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I'm not a religious person, and right now I have mixed feelings toward organized religion. I am however a strong believer in prayer, God and Jesus. I've had prayers answered that can not be explained away by coincidence or science. ....and I will always be grateful to the man upstairs.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Context please... Not just a couple words. Please list the entire passage or a couple sentences from the passage.
I guess Sodom and Gomorrah, Jericho, Egypt, and sinning Israelites aren't good enough for you.
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Dude! Context! You already listed the titles of the stories. What is inside of the words you wrote? What parts of those stories or passages tell you that God is vengeful? More than titles please.....
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"Take vengeance on the Midianites for leading the Israelites into idolatry. After that, you will die and join your ancestors." - Numbers 31:2
So Moses said to the people, "Choose some men to fight the LORD's war of vengeance against Midian. - Numbers 31:3
I will take vengeance; I will repay those who deserve it. In due time their feet will slip. Their day of disaster will arrive, and their destiny will overtake them.' - Deuteronomy 32:35
when I sharpen my flashing sword and begin to carry out justice, I will bring vengeance on my enemies and repay those who hate me. - Deuteronomy 32:41
"Rejoice with him, O heavens, and let all the angels of God worship him,* for he will avenge the blood of his servants. He will take vengeance on his enemies and cleanse his land and his people."3 - Deuteronomy 32:43
Why should pagan nations be allowed to scoff, asking, "Where is their God?" Show us your vengeance against the nations, for they have spilled the blood of your servants. - Psalms 79:10
O Lord, take sevenfold vengeance on our neighbors for the scorn they have hurled at you. - Psalms 79:12
O LORD, the God to whom vengeance belongs, O God of vengeance, let your glorious justice be seen! - Psalms 94:1
Want more?
![[Linked Image from s2.excoboard.com]](http://s2.excoboard.com/forums/25521/user/302752/484538.gif)
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I'm not a religious person, and right now I have mixed feelings toward organized religion. I am however a strong believer in prayer, God and Jesus. I've had prayers answered that can not be explained away by coincidence or science. ....and I will always be grateful to the man upstairs.
EXCELLENT!
I may not believe that God answers prayers, but I believe in the power of prayers.
I may not believe that Jesus existed, but I believe in the power of the belief in him.
I don't believe in many organized religions, but I believe in all the positive things that come out of the union between the individuals and the ultimate goodness that comes from that support system.
I don't believe the stories in the Bible, but I believe in the goodness that the Bible creates.
In short, until someone can prove that such things as Jesus and the Ark existed in the manner in which they are described, I cannot believe in the stories of the Bible. In an age where we can prove the existence of the world going back to the beginning, and where we can essentially date the Universe back to the moment of the Big Bang, while also considering just how important the Biblical times were, I find it highly odd that we cannot be offered even a shred of evidence supporting the things most organized religions force upon us.
I have a great appreciation for all the good things that come out of most organized religions. They offer people hope and give them strength and teach them great lessons. We as a race are only better for such a thing.
What I HATE are how the religions all try and impose their will onto me. 
Here's an example........
We booked a small two-day meeting in one of my hotel's breakout rooms. Nothing more than a plated-dinner for 12 people, the head-honchos of a well-to-do church here in Austin. The meeting was so small that I handled it myself, instead of chewing up more labor hours for such a small thing (that, and I can be sure that it was done correctly *L*).
The people couldn't have been more courteous or polite. When they needed something, they said "please" and when we did things for them, they thanked us with genuine smiles. However, I've been around the block in my 38 years and I just KNEW what was coming, though I didn't know in what form.
As I'd dropped the last of the plates and was leaving the room, one guy said "Kurt (shocked my name isn't actually "Toad"?  ) you've done a great job. We're about to pray before we eat. We're going to pray for you, too. Is there something you'd like us to pray for on your behalf?"
Now while I appreciate the sentiment behind the offer, I can handle myself quite well, thanks all the same. I wasn't aware that I needed any prayers on my behalf, and even if I did, and even if I believed that God answers prayers, I wouldn't want one wasted on me. There are others in the world that need it so much more than I do.
But that wasn't the part that always chaps my green hide. That came later.
I'd come back an hour-or-so after I dropped the plates to clear the room of all the F&B so they could continue to meet without the food and clutter. As I was leaving for the last time, one guy stood up and said:
"Kurt, you and your staff have been great, thank you. I want to give you something...."
I smiled, shook my head, and stated that I was a Manager and simply wouldn't accept gratuities. However, that wasn't what he gave me. 
He reached into his pocket, pulled out a pamphlet, forced it into my hand, and told me,
"Kurt, God loves you. We meet at God's grace and hope that you would accept Jesus into your life. Do you believe in Jesus?"
I won't go into exactly what I told the entire room, though trust the response is one I've given before, since this isn't my first rodeo with organized religion that tries to force a belief onto me. But what I can tell you is that I'm less inclined to join organized religion now than I was before I worked that night.
I do believe in "God" though my personal interpretation of the being probably wouldn't jive with most of y'all's, especially those who follow organized religion in a strict manner. While I don't agree with how organized religions conduct themselves (and that is for an entirely different thread) I do have a great appreciation for all the good things they do for people.
Sorry for the rant. J's post simply brought it out of me. 
To give this post a purpose, note that the entire premise of the article is to try and further the belief and validity of the stories in the bible. Prove the Ark existed and you lend credence to other things in the bible. I find the entire thing transparent, and in what may be a "Me" problem, I'm even a little insulted at the idea my intelligence could so be manipulated.
If people would stop reaching to try and prove things in the Bible, and if organized religions would stop trying to impose their wills and beliefs on others, they'd get a helluva lot further, no pun intended.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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O Lord, take sevenfold vengeance on our neighbors for the scorn they have hurled at you. - Psalms 79:12
I randomly looked this one up. - I can look the other ones up as well. But here is the passage that you have referenced - In the passage you will see that people are asking God to be vengeful, and are questioning why he isn't vengeful. - Which means that you cited something that works completely against your argument. Here is the passage in its entirety:
A psalm of Asaph.
1 O God, the nations have invaded your inheritance; they have defiled your holy temple, they have reduced Jerusalem to rubble. 2 They have given the dead bodies of your servants as food to the birds of the air, the flesh of your saints to the beasts of the earth. 3 They have poured out blood like water all around Jerusalem, and there is no one to bury the dead. 4 We are objects of reproach to our neighbors, of scorn and derision to those around us. 5 How long, O Lord? Will you be angry forever? How long will your jealousy burn like fire? 6 Pour out your wrath on the nations that do not acknowledge you, on the kingdoms that do not call on your name; 7 for they have devoured Jacob and destroyed his homeland. 8 Do not hold against us the sins of the fathers; may your mercy come quickly to meet us, for we are in desperate need. 9 Help us, O God our Savior, for the glory of your name; deliver us and forgive our sins for your name's sake. 10 Why should the nations say, "Where is their God?" Before our eyes, make known among the nations that you avenge the outpoured blood of your servants. 11 May the groans of the prisoners come before you; by the strength of your arm preserve those condemned to die. 12 Pay back into the laps of our neighbors seven times the reproach they have hurled at you, O Lord. 13 Then we your people, the sheep of your pasture, will praise you forever; from generation to generation we will recount your praise. [/color:white]
You asked at the end of your post Quote:
Want more?
Hang on, let me look up another one of your passages that counter everything you write...
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B asic
I nstructions
B efore
L eaving
E arth
Put all the other stuff aside and take to heart the message. Peace, love, hope, redemption, faith in something bigger.
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Legend
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according to a sensational claim by evangelical explorers
Stopped reading after that.
It's a shame that you are that narrow minded.
That's not being narrow, it's a sound observation. These 'explorers' have something to gain by claiming they've found Noah's ark without any scientific or seemingly relevant evidence..
Scientists who are researching evolution look for and find evidence of evolution.. do you trust them? Scientists who are researching global warming look for and find evidence of man made global warming.. do you trust them? My guess is you do... but scientists who seek to find truth in the Bible, when they look for a find possible evidence of it then it must be crap...
yebat' Putin
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I won't go into exactly what I told the entire room, though trust the response is one I've given before, since this isn't my first rodeo with organized religion that tries to force a belief onto me.
They offered to pray for you... they extended an invitation to come to their church... they handed you some literature on it... and they asked about your beliefs...
Now aside from the fact that that could make some people uncomfortable when asked those things in front of a room full of people... I'm having trouble finding the "forced their beliefs on you" part... Can you please elaborate on how they forced you to do anything or believe anything?
in fact in all of my years of engaging in this discussion I've heard that phrase a lot.. people don't like "religious folks" that FORCE THEIR BELIEFS on you... in this country, aside from the extremely rare cult type of outfits, I'm struggling to find anybody who is able to FORCE their beliefs on another person simply by asking them about their faith or inviting them to a service......
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
Quote:
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according to a sensational claim by evangelical explorers
Stopped reading after that.
It's a shame that you are that narrow minded.
That's not being narrow, it's a sound observation. These 'explorers' have something to gain by claiming they've found Noah's ark without any scientific or seemingly relevant evidence..
Scientists who are researching evolution look for and find evidence of evolution.. do you trust them? Scientists who are researching global warming look for and find evidence of man made global warming.. do you trust them? My guess is you do... but scientists who seek to find truth in the Bible, when they look for a find possible evidence of it then it must be crap...
But DC...
In this case, it's the exact opposite. Scientist haven't been involved at all in trying to figure out what this structure is. Instead, the "finding" is immediately labeled as "99.9% sure" it's Noah's Ark. They are trying to push a biblical story without any science involved. So wouldn't you agree that it's questionable to trust a religious group finding something that pushes religion?
Let the scientist do their job to determine what it is...how old it is...etc. Then, if the scientists say it's a huge boat with 2 piles of 4000 year-old petrified poo from every species of animal, then I'm completely fine with people making the connection that it's "probably" Noah's Ark.
Science should not try to de-bunk this just as much as no one should claim to know 99.9% exactly what it is.
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*In Baker we trust*
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Quote:
Quote:
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according to a sensational claim by evangelical explorers
Stopped reading after that.
It's a shame that you are that narrow minded.
That's not being narrow, it's a sound observation. These 'explorers' have something to gain by claiming they've found Noah's ark without any scientific or seemingly relevant evidence..
Scientists who are researching evolution look for and find evidence of evolution.. do you trust them? Scientists who are researching global warming look for and find evidence of man made global warming.. do you trust them? My guess is you do... but scientists who seek to find truth in the Bible, when they look for a find possible evidence of it then it must be crap...
Anyone who can profit from "Finding" something, will find something. To answer your question, I do not beleive them if they have something to gain from it.
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Quote:
What I HATE are how the religions all try and impose their will onto me.
Here's an example........
We booked a small two-day meeting in one of my hotel's breakout rooms. Nothing more than a plated-dinner for 12 people, the head-honchos of a well-to-do church here in Austin.
Living in Austin longer than me, I'm sure you're used to this by now. My wife (at the time, long-time girlfriend) took a job working at a local BBQ chain when we first moved down here. The company actually has as "a benefit" protestant clergy come in to talk to the employees. They talk about praying with them and for them and their committment to Jesus and everything... coming from Cleveland we were pretty shocked. I was surprised it was even legal, but then a lot of the conduct at that place regarding employees doesn't pass the sniff test.
I came to realize that's just because things here are... different than what we were used to up North. While Austin prides itself on being "different" and "weird," most of the city is actually pretty homogenous. That leads to a different set of expectations/assumptions about the people you're dealing with, and what sort of interactions are appropriate.
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(shocked my name isn't actually "Toad"?
You will always be el Sapo to me.
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DIehard, I will try to eliminate the quotes... Quote:
They are trying to push a biblical story without any science involved. So wouldn't you agree that it's questionable to trust a religious group finding something that pushes religion?
I would agree... read back through the string.. my comment was that he was narrow minded for saying that he "didn't read any further" once he came across the word "evangelical"... I never called him narrow minded for not jumping up and believing it.. I called him narrow minded for not even reading and considering it... and I maintain that point of view.
Heck I go to church every week and am actively involved in my church and would like nothing more than for this to be true.... but I would still say there is a good chance this is 4000+ years old... a decent chance it was a structure resembling a boat... and a very small chance it was Noah's ark.... but I'm willing to consider it.
yebat' Putin
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