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j/c..
people keep raggin on McCoy's height... but he looks taller, if not the same height, and bigger than Delhomme..
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j/c..
people keep raggin on McCoy's height... but he looks taller, if not the same height, and bigger than Delhomme..
http://www.texassports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/mccoy_colt00.html
that site lists McCoy at 6'2" 210 lbs but the Browns site says 6'1" 216 lbs
The Browns site lists Delhomme at 6'2", 215 lbs..
They really aren't that different in size at all...
Not that I'm comparing the skills of McCoy or Delhomme to Favre, but Farve is listed at 6'2" and 222lbs.
Again, not much diffference size wise..
Not sure what all the hubbub about Colts size is all about....
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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because the fans of this city have ZERO patience.
I know this is pickin' nits, so to speak, but quotes like this drive me crazy.
We still show up every week even though they haven't won the big one since 1964. And honestly, anyone who watched this team through the first 12 games last year should be given a medal.
Or at least a year's supply of Pepto Bismol........
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Continuing to show up out of some sadomasachistic self-punishing ritualistic loyalty........ and patience ........ are not the same thing.
yebat' Putin
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"Cleveland is a QB wasteland. No QB in their right mind wants to come to Cleveland."
==========================================================
Garbage!
Tell that to Sipe and Kosar. If you win Cleveland is like Mecca.
From Carmen Policy through last year the team has been mismanaged. When you fail in the draft your team will suffer through the results.
Colt McCoy is in a good position. He is a third round pick. He comes to Cleveland without the fan fare and contract of a first round pick. He will be given the necessary time to develop. Holmgren brings credibility. Delhomme, Wallace, and Holmgren will help McCoy. If he fails; it will be from his own inabilities not because "Cleveland is a wasteland for quarterbacks" or his future career was mismanaged like Quinn's was. Couch failed for many reasons. The main reason being he was not very good to begin with.
Cleveland is no different than any other NFL franchise. If the organization has sound management your potential to succeed is limited only to your abilities.
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I'm just wondering which middle round QB we're taking next year.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I'm just wondering which middle round QB we're taking next year.
Hopefully they resist the urge...but I doubt it.
you had a good run Hank.
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"Cleveland is a QB wasteland. No QB in their right mind wants to come to Cleveland."
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Garbage!
Tell that to Sipe and Kosar. If you win Cleveland is like Mecca.
Which I believe is his point.. no QB in the last 20 years in Cleveland has been put in a position to win so why would a QB want to come here... Colt is in as good a position as possible.. it appears that our running game is solid, our defense is improving, our WRs are young but improving, hopefully we have stability in the organization, the lack of first round pressue as you mentioned, a veteran in front of him...
So I agree, I think, for the first time in a long time, his success will depend largely on his ability to learn and grow and improve more than any outside factors.
yebat' Putin
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I hope we don't stop looking... I hope we do it every year, for a while at least.
Even if by some miracle we've hit a home run with McCoy (not likely)... we will still need more than just him. We'll need to start grooming a backup, a 3rd stringer, etc...
Granted, if the Wallace/Cribbs experiment works, then we've got one more QB spot locked down long term - unless/until Wallace seeks to leave for a starting QB gig.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
I'm just wondering which middle round QB we're taking next year.
Hopefully they resist the urge...but I doubt it.
look at Holmgren's draft history. we are taking a QB next year.
he believes that you always look for that diamond. even if you don't use him, you can pawn him off for better draft picks from someone else. GB did it for years.
#gmstrong
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Couch failed for many reasons. The main reason being he was not very good to begin with.
Not to turn this into a couch thread, but the main reason couch failed had less to do with he wans't good (i think he was a decent QB). The reason he failed was because he had no Offensive Line here and got the tar beat out of him....hence why his career ended early
you look at EVERY highlight reel of the last 15 years when they show shots on the QB, and Tim couch is among many of those clips...Couch got no protection here whatsoever...
if Tim couch had this current OL with Thomas, Mack, and Steiny..he has a high 80's to mid-90 rated QB...
Tim couch didn't have a great Te like Winslow, or Edwards(when he felt like catching the ball 2007) nor a good blocking OL...he didn't have any of that..all he had was Kevin Johnson and Jamel White.....
Bradford for the Rams is in the same position...the kid will get the snot knocked out of him in St. Loius and he will be labeled as a bust because he will have no protection. Very similar to Couch
the only reason Peyton Manning panned out was because the Colts invested heavily into their OL, Wr, and Rb to go with Manning...had Manning been drafted by us and into the same situation as couch...he would have been a bust too...
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Hmmmmmm... I disagree and will leave it at that.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I hope we don't stop looking... I hope we do it every year, for a while at least.
Holmgren said during the off-season that his philosophy is you keep looking for a franchise QB until you get one, i,.e. keep swinging the pick until you hit gold.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Hmmmmmm... I disagree and will leave it at that.
Peyton Manning wouldn't have been a bust but he wouldn't have been "Peyton Manning"... not without Saturday, Wayne, Harrison, Edge James, Dallas Clark, etc around him.. .he would have made our players around him better but he alone wouldn't have made us GOOD unless we had drafted better.
yebat' Putin
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i like that colt is flying in under the radar, qb's will always draw some attention, but like some mentioned, it's nothing like quinn. you could even argue more people were talking up charles frye than they are mccoy. it could aso be due to the struggles by all our young qb's that we want this guy to sit as long as possible so he's not shellshocked.
hope the guy can learn it quickly. maybe he sees time at the end of the year if we're not in contetion, and otherswise with 2 training camps under his belt a year from next september, maybe he'll get his chance.
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He'll have to get a roast beef sandwich -- Denver traded their ham sandwich to the Browns.
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One of the real reasons I like to post on this board is because I like to be with the best. I am proud to know that I am posting with people who know more about football than Holmgrten AND Dungy. WOW! I don't know how they ever got to the level of head coach in the NFL.
Holmgren, no. Dungy yes we do. 
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
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I just wanna know why Ratliff is still on the team.. lol.
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You can bet the next CBA will kill that golden goose for rookies. Guaranteed.
gmstrong -----------------
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"Cleveland is a QB wasteland. No QB in their right mind wants to come to Cleveland."
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Garbage!
Tell that to Sipe and Kosar. If you win Cleveland is like Mecca.
You left out the part where I said, "since the return (1999)"
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From Carmen Policy through last year the team has been mismanaged. When you fail in the draft your team will suffer through the results.
You are correct. The team has been mismanaged. We have no idea if the team is being properly managed now or not. We have to wait and see. Each new regime has brought "Wow, we finally have guys that know how to manage a team." posts. Carmen Policy had a pretty good track record until he got to Cleveland. Phil Savage had a strong resume... until he got to Cleveland. Seattle relieved Holmgren of his front office responsibilities and told him to stick to coaching... I hope Holmgren rights the ship. We need to wait and see how it pans out.
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Colt McCoy is in a good position. He is a third round pick. He comes to Cleveland without the fan fare and contract of a first round pick. He will be given the necessary time to develop. Holmgren brings credibility. Delhomme, Wallace, and Holmgren will help McCoy. If he fails; it will be from his own inabilities not because "Cleveland is a wasteland for quarterbacks" or his future career was mismanaged like Quinn's was. Couch failed for many reasons. The main reason being he was not very good to begin with.
Luke McCown (4th? round) came in with limited fan fare and was supposed to have time to develop. Charlie Frye (3rd round) came in with limited fan fare and was supposed to have time to develop. QBs are always treated as saviors/villains.
In the year DA went 10-6 and made the pro-bowl, was he treated like a super-hero in Cleveland? No. People still clamored for BQ.
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Luke McCown (4th? round) came in with limited fan fare and was supposed to have time to develop. Charlie Frye (3rd round) came in with limited fan fare and was supposed to have time to develop. QBs are always treated as saviors/villains.
Neither of those QB's had the resume of Colt McCoy...
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Quote:
Luke McCown (4th? round) came in with limited fan fare and was supposed to have time to develop. Charlie Frye (3rd round) came in with limited fan fare and was supposed to have time to develop. QBs are always treated as saviors/villains.
Neither of those QB's had the resume of Colt McCoy...
Or of Brady Quinn. Your point?
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Quinn was a first round pick...
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Exactly. Frye and McCown weren't expected to do much (and lived up to the billing), while BQ was supposed to be a franchise quarterback who would turn our team around.
Colt is somewhere in the middle. I think.
gmstrong -----------------
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Bingo.. thats what was meant.
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Colt is somewhere in the middle. I just think the Holmgren factor cannot be discounted.. not that he is going to be working with Colt but I just notice a calm about the team (from the fans) that I haven't noticed in .. in... I don't remember. Optimism and pessimissm have come and gone with each change of coach, GM, President, etc since 1999.. but the calm, the sense that we now have adults running the show, is unlike any of those changes. This seems to be translating into a greater feeling that we don't NEED Colt to save us (at least not right away).. When I think back to every QB from Couch to Quinn, the feeling was that they HAD to be the one and they HAD to be the one right away because we were lost if they weren't... I don't get that feeling with Colt.. I think he's going to be good, I really hope he's good, but if he's not good.... we'll be ok. I think that is going to translate into a lot less pressure on the kid which will only improve his chances for success... 
yebat' Putin
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there is probably truth in that statement DC, but I think having a guy like Delhomme in there is also a factor. They guy has a lot of pro football experience. I think that also takes a lot of Pressure of pushing Colt too early.
"He who buys what he does not need steals from himself."
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there is probably truth in that statement DC, but I think having a guy like Delhomme in there is also a factor. They guy has a lot of pro football experience. I think that also takes a lot of Pressure of pushing Colt too early.
no doubt about it..
There was a video somewhere, I think on NFL.com that I saw,, Colt and Jake were being interviewed together. These two guys are getting along great.. you can see it. Colt relayed a story that when he was visiting the Browns before the Draft, he went into the film room at 630 am and there was Jake, reviewing film, learning the offense.
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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This seems to be translating into a greater feeling that we don't NEED Colt to save us (at least not right away).. When I think back to every QB from Couch to Quinn, the feeling was that they HAD to be the one and they HAD to be the one right away because we were lost if they weren't... I don't get that feeling with Colt.. I think he's going to be good, I really hope he's good, but if he's not good.... we'll be ok.
I think that is going to translate into a lot less pressure on the kid which will only improve his chances for success...
I hope I am wrong. I do. Here is why I disagree with your assessment...
Couch, McCown, Frye, BQ were supposed to have time to develop. Each was supposed to learn from a veteran for a couple of seasons before taking the helm. Each QB was thrust into the line up when the losses piled up and the veteran QB was blamed for ineffective play.
Jake Delhomme has not be very productive over the past two seasons. He is learning a new offense and new teammates. There is more than a slight possibility that Jake is going to play medicore football and that the chants for Colt will begin.
The fact that many on here are talking about Colt leads me to believe that... the Browns are medicore... the chatter about McCoy will turn into chants, screams, and pleas.
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Jake Delhomme has not be very productive over the past two seasons. He is learning a new offense and new teammates. There is more than a slight possibility that Jake is going to play medicore football and that the chants for Colt will begin.
That would simply show how completely stupid we can be.
Think about it: Delhomme is doing poorly because of "new offense and new teammates".... so we chant for some a rookie QB that is also having to deal with "new offense and new teammates".
This is why a front office should NEVER listen to its fans.
Mediocre is an upgrade at QB for us.
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the chatter about McCoy will turn into chants, screams, and pleas.
Those people should be lined up and slapped repeatedly until they shut up, pass out or return to sanity.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Jake Delhomme has not be very productive over the past two seasons. He is learning a new offense and new teammates. There is more than a slight possibility that Jake is going to play medicore football and that the chants for Colt will begin.
That would simply show how completely stupid we can be.
Think about it: Delhomme is doing poorly because of "new offense and new teammates".... so we chant for some a rookie QB that is also having to deal with "new offense and new teammates".
This is why a front office should NEVER listen to its fans.
Mediocre is an upgrade at QB for us.
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the chatter about McCoy will turn into chants, screams, and pleas.
Those people should be lined up and slapped repeatedly until they shut up, pass out or return to sanity.
I hope you are right. But, fans have short memories and it will be easy to argue, "We have a good team. Our RB's and WR's just look bad because Jake is making bad decisions... at least Colt could come in and not (fill in blank of bonehead QB decision) ... Jake is old. He is not the future of the franchise. This season is lost. We might as well let Colt take his lumps now and we can find out what we have got."
Save/archive this post. If the Browns are under .500 10 games into the season... I guarantee several people on this very board will be making this argument. 
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My bet is that Grossi, Tony Rizzo and Mary Kay start with that sort of chirping before any fans here (ok, perhaps Corpus and a couple other perpetually angry types).
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Exactly. Frye and McCown weren't expected to do much (and lived up to the billing), while BQ was supposed to be a franchise quarterback who would turn our team around.
Colt is somewhere in the middle. I think.
Hmm.......I always had the sense that Savage was "all-in" with Frye. In fact, that major screwup contributes to our current situation now.
As for Colt, he's in a good spot, but we can only do so much with the tools he has. He's going to have to become something very special in terms of accuracy and mobility in order to become a starter. Really, Colt and Frye are nearly mirror images of each other in terms of the situation and their relative tools. I'd like to have him solve our QB issues for the next decade, but he's an underdog.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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The fact that many on here are talking about Colt leads me to believe that... the Browns are medicore... the chatter about McCoy will turn into chants, screams, and pleas.
merth...I hear you and believe you are correct about the intelligence level of Browns fans/media when it comes to the QB position...lose a few games and the boos for Delhomme will grow louder and louder as the chants for Colt grow.
In the past, the Browns franchise...coaches, management and ownership, "had rabbit ears" and caved into the chants for a change at QB.
But I seriously doubt that Holmgren gives a rats behind what the fans and media say about the QB position. Holmgren is in charge and it's going to be his call as to when McCoy gets on the field.
Some seem to have forgotten that McCoy is not second on the depth chart....Seneca Wallace will be the #2 QB on the depth chart and if Delhomme struggles it's not going to be McCoy getting the call to go in unless Holmgren believes McCoy needs a break from holding a clipboard.
I'm not saying that McCoy will not get some playing time...but it's not going to be the fan's chant or media's stories that push Holmgren to put McCoy in. There may be some learning opportunities for McCoy if Holmgren believes McCoy is ready.
As of now, McCoy is a legit #3 on the Browns QB depth chart.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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My bet is that Grossi, Tony Rizzo and Mary Kay start with that sort of chirping before any fans here (ok, perhaps Corpus and a couple other perpetually angry types).
No surprise there 
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I don't think that assessment is entirely true.
If the the team with Delhomme is competitive and plays well but still loses, and I don't mean lose by 3 because the other team had a real bad game, then I think the people won't start chanting as quickly as they have in the past.
We all know you can't win every game, and most fans know we aren't likely to win a lot of games this season, but what we do want is a team that plays like a real NFL team for once, each and every week, and shows improvement over the crap we have been watching for the last decade. Games we still feel we have an honest chance to win in the 4th quarter, games that have us cheering, games that remove the "laughing stock" label from our team, games that bring respect to the name of Cleveland Browns.
There will always be a few tards out there, but the majority have some sense and can tell the difference.
Last edited by FloridaFan; 08/05/10 10:07 PM.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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There are a couple of legitimate reasons to get McCoy into live action before this year is up, though those reasons aren't what will drive the mob you're speaking of. Those dolts have the patience of toddlers, and you can bet your last nickel that there's at least one moron out there who thinks McCoy should start day #1. It's the nature of fandom.
Frankly, I see the odds of McCoy not taking a snap this year to be very, very long.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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There are a couple of legitimate reasons to get McCoy into live action before this year is up
Aside from Preseason or *perhaps* garbage time in a complete blowout... I don't see a reason at all. Wallace is the #2, if anyone will need the additional time, it is him. McCoy is a 3rd stringer; he doesn't need it, he's going to be busy as hell watching Wallace run the scout team.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I hope I am wrong. I do. Here is why I disagree with your assessment...
Disagree away my friend.. 
Your explanation was sort of the impetus behind my comment that "the adults are in charge".... I'm hoping that if the chanting does begin (and I hope it doesn't because that will mean we are sucking).. but if it does, that Holmgren, Heckert, Mangini, whoever will have the stones to squash it quickly and say NO, HE'S NOT PLAYING...
I also think its about job security.. that's one of the reasons coaches go to the rookie QB before they want to... we aren't going to fire Holmgren and if Mangini is comfortable that his job is safe then they are both more likely to say, "I don't care how few games we win, we are NOT putting him in."
yebat' Putin
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if Mangini is comfortable that his job is safe
Thats the cruncher, I guess we will find out.
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