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Just for you and arch, who eitehr don't read all of this thread or like to spin, here's me quoting me: I don't want to cut Colt or hate him (like I do Mangini  ) but I just don't see a franchise caliber QB, neither now nor back at Texas.....keep him, let him play, develop him... AS A GOOD, CAPABLE BACKUP (like Wallace)...but imho that's really his best case scenario
#gmstrong
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Well .... if you think that he's destined to be a career backup, then I feel much better about his chances of being a solid starter in this league. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Well theoretically ... his best case scenario would be that he never loses another game ...
Kid came off of a single week of practice .. and didnt do a lot but didnt have a lot.
At the end of the day he didnt set the NFL on fire .. but he didnt crumble and hand the game away either.
I dont think he's as good or as bad as people on here seem to think he is .. but I dont know. About the only thing I DO know is that let's see what he's like down the road ... you know .. maybe when he's had more than 1 game on the road under his belt ... maybe in a season if he is still starting ... maybe if our regime doesnt draft a qb that should help clear things up ... maybe we get a #1 WR that is feared ... maybe our defense is nicely filled out as is our O-Line ... and then we can be critical of his every mistake. Until then ... I dont know what Tom Brady or Peyton Manning could do in this current offense ... so Im pleased with what I saw from him.
But... this week is a whole new Job interview for Colt.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
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1st off, tell me about it...as if I don't get any thrown my way, lol
Go back and check and you will see that while I disagree with you, I also completmented you...
But you do put yourself in that position when come up with about the craziest methods known to man to discredit a player...
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Also, consider this my last reply to you for now, it's really useless to discuss any further...
You can run but you can't hide LOL As for what I won't or can't get.., what's wrong here is that YOU don't get it.. YOU think it's perfectly ok to twist numbers to suit your own beliefs whereas I"m just taking the accepted method of calulating stats. YOu know, the one that EVERYONE else but you uses.
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McCoy is a QB, right? He did nothing with his arm in this "drive"...also if all he did was increase Phil's probability of making the FG 2% better imho it's a backhanded compliment...not by me this time, lol
Let me get this right,,, a QB runs and gains yards to put the team in a better position to score a FG and because he's a QB and didn't use his arm, it doens't count? OMG that is another one of your lame attempts to devalue McCoy...
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Which part of meaningless or irrelevant don't you get?
I'm sorry man, I don't find scoring at any point in a game worthless, irrelevant or Meaningless.. Scoring is all it's about and I don't care when it happens.. end of a game you can't win, or beginning of the game to start off with.
Just don't matter,, a score is a score is a score is a score..
Following your logic, with them down by several scores, they may as well have laid down and given up?
I guarantee you if they had, you'd be picking on that..
If you want to continue this decussion, I'm good to go for the duration, but if you want to drop it because you can't make me or as it turns out, anyone else follow your logic,, be my guest.. But I'll be here if you decide you want to continue..
EDIT--------------------------------
Quote from an article in the PD:
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THEY MISSED IT: In an interview with Peter King of SI.com, NFL Vice President of Operations Ray Anderson said the hit on receiver Mohamed Massaquoi by Pittsburgh linebacker James Harrison should have drawn a penalty.
"That call should have been made," Anderson said to King.
The hit is also being reviewed by the NFL for possible discipline.
Had an unecessary rougness penalty been called on Harrison, the Browns would have had a first down at the Steelers' 41-yard line with 1:55 to go in the first half. They were down at the time, 7-3.
The link to this article which is more about the Trade deadline..
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/10/cleveland_browns_not_likely_to_1.html
OK, here's my thinking.. if the refs call that penalty on the Steelers and we end up 1st and 10 on the Steelers 41,, do we have a chance to score? THe answer is yes.. we would have had a chance to score..
That could have put us either down 7 to 6 or up 10 to 7. Do you want to hold that against McCoy because he threw the pass that MoMass was trying to catch when Harrison nailed him 
I thought I'd give you more ammunition you might be able to twist into something negative about him.....
Last edited by Damanshot; 10/19/10 03:08 PM.
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I don't want to cut Colt or hate him (like I do Mangini ) but I just don't see a franchise caliber QB, neither now nor back at Texas.....keep him, let him play, develop him... AS A GOOD, CAPABLE BACKUP (like Wallace)...but imho that's really his best case scenario
Well, I certainly didn't read that from the past couple posts of yours, but if that's the case then you and I are on the exact same page.
I'm really hoping that Colt can prove people wrong and improve upon this past weekend and beyond. It sounds like he's going to get a game or two before we can stick our 1st or 2nd QB back in there.
I'm looking forward to seeing what McCoy can actually do with these next games. One thing I'm NOT looking forward to is the FO decision on whether we're going after one of the promising QBs coming out for this next draft. These prospects coming out are the best in a while, but I would really love to be able to pass on a QB and address other positions. That's a decision I'm really happy I don't have to make, and I'm hoping it's obvious (one way or another) whether we need to draft another QB or not.
Edit: I'll tack on a little extra to clarify. I think we should just develop him. We don't develop him as a backup. We develop him, and where he develops is up to him.
Last edited by oobernoober; 10/19/10 03:27 PM.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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I want McCoy to prove me, and everyone else wrong and show that he can be a highly effective QB. (I really didn't want to draft him, and didn't think that he could ever be effective in the NFL) I really was almst at the point where I thought that he should go after pre-season. However, I made a list prior to the game of what I wanted to see out of McCoy, and he hit every one of them. I was impressed, and am perfectly willing to continue to be impresses as the srandards rise. I am now more on the side of being intrigued by what McCoy might be capable of doing, and certainly would like to see more as the year goes by.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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This is a reply to your quote of Django and not to you oober... Quote:
don't want to cut Colt or hate him (like I do Mangini ) but I just don't see a franchise caliber QB, neither now nor back at Texas.....keep him, let him play, develop him... AS A GOOD, CAPABLE BACKUP (like Wallace)...but imho that's really his best case scenario
And you would have cut Terry Bradshaw, John Elway, and Tom Brady on day one....You never would have drafted a Montana, or a Brees.....and based upon your comments thus far, I certainly don't think you could find a QB if you were locked in a closet with all of them....
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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j/c
No one is saying Colt should be anointed the untouchable starter for the next 5 seasons.
What he has earned, though, is an extended audition.
Dude earned the respect of the OFFENSIVE LINE. THE HARDEST UNIT TO EARN RESPECT FROM AS A QB IN FOOTBALL. Brady Quinn never earned the line's respect, Charlie Frye didn't. Hell even Jeff Garcia didn't here.
Eric Steinbach spoke as the elder statesman of the offensive line saying he was "awesome." That is HUGE for a rookie QB. WAY better than Ryan Tucker, the former elder statesman saying "What we really want is Kelly Holcomb back and healthy" when talking about Luke McCown.
Does this not matter to anyone else here? Because it speaks volumes to me on what the players think of the kid and moving forward.
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It's not 'a diss', as you put it, to state a fact ... and the fact is, he played mediocre ... as in not good, not bad.
Playing mediocre in your first career game against the league's best defense is pretty good.
I actually agree with you.
Saying he played mediocre isn't a knock ...
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DjangoBrown
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*** You are ignoring this user ***
Just saying, the button exists for a reason.
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Why do people always feel the need to let others know they're ignoring them? Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose? 
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*** You are ignoring this user ***
wait...what'd you say?
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Not replying to anyone in particular. I think as soon as seneca is healthy, sit Colt, unless it is absolutely clear as day that he playing lights out. Here is why:
1. After a game or two, teams start to figure new QBs out, their tendencies, etc. Colt will be more likely to have bad experiences as the season progresses, possibly resulting in injury.
2. He took five sacks and ran too much. Those are two things that we want to stop quickly because it leads to bad habits that are hard to break later. (see Couch, Tim). He may not have the skill yet to avoid that.
3. Despite his nice debut, he has a lot to learn, and while experience is great, so is being on the sidelines, and that time is important.
4. No matter what happens with Colt, we should draft a QB next year, hopefully in the first round if one of the really good prospects is available. Why? 10 games isn't enough to know, positive or negative, if Colt's the real deal or a real bust. (See Anderson, Derek). If a franchise type QB is available, you take him. I'd rather have Brees and Rivers than Frye and nobody.
5. Seneca likely gives us the best chance to win if healthy, and you play to win at this point in the season. The team needs to learn how to win more than Colt needs to take his lumps.
6. Colt is likely to get injured because he's small and doesn't know how to avoid the pressure yet. An injury means he's not only on the sidelines, but he can't practice, and that practice time is also important because he develops timing.
So, unless he plays like the second coming of Dan Marino, I believe he should sit when Wallace is healthy. Delhomme appears to have lost it, although if fully healthy, he may still be viable.
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mediocre? Why because we lost? Because he had some INT's, because he did not throw multiple TD's,
No ... because overall, he was mediocre. Not good, not bad.
At times he looked very poised ... other times he looked skittish.
He may very well end up the next Brees .... or the next Frye. That remains to be seen, and at the moment I have no idea.
But let's not inflate his performance ... it was light years ahead of what I expected ... but I expected disaster.
He was mediocre.
Mediocre For what?
A veteran QB.
Okay he was mediocre.
Who is inflating?
Without WR's other then Stuckey and a rookie not only starting his 1st NFL game, but his 1st 'real' game time experience.
I think his performance put him in pretty good company with many who have came before and have went on to have very good careers or some that are still playing the game today.
I don't agree that it was mediocre performance, but I also said I would like to see more before I anoint him our guy.
Whatever the out come is with Colt McCoy you can't take his moment away from him just the same.
Know one gave Colt half the chance that he would not be overwhelmed facing the Steelers @ home with the return of their QB.
People who are not even a Browns fan are giving more credit to Colt then some on this board are.
If he stunk it up I would be the 1st to say he did.
DJ, your trying to reinvent the wheel with your ridiculous numbers by trying to 'Micro' manage them instead of looking at the big picture.
The numbers are what they are.
You must be a bean counter (accountant) for a living
I was not even thinking about his numbers, but if you want to talk numbers.
What was his 3rd down completion % ?
This is one stat that every coach will point out as being one that is highly stressed, because it usually points to how well the QB is controlling his schedule and down and distance.
I'm not a stat guy and I don't know what his % was, but it had to be pretty decent.
Like close to 50%.
QB's like BQ who could never stay on schedule are not going to be successful.
He had 4 plays over 20 yards and Hillis only had 41 yards on the ground, so it's not like he had the running game clicking on all cylinders for him.
Sacks where it maybe the QB who gets tackled is hardly an individual negative and not solely on the shoulders of the QB.
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If Wallace is not back by this week.. then I'm all for starting McCoy for the rest of the year. I'm a little hesitant putting McCoy through the toughest span of our schedule, but if he plays the BEST DEFENSE in the league AND the 2009 WORLD CHAMPS.. then let him play all those who are trying to take over those spots too.
McCoy definitely is better than anything Quinn ever displayed... which is sad.
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The schedule is what it is.
But a high ankle sprang is at least a 6 week injury.
Your lucky to walk without a boot or crutches before 4 weeks.
If all things are = and all of our QB's are healthy then one could argue that a veteran gives us a better chance to win this year, but if they are not 100% then I think we have to go with Colt weather or not he has the weapons to deliver wins.
Last edited by FL_Dawg; 10/19/10 09:02 PM.
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McCoy definitely is better than anything Quinn ever displayed... which is sad.
Absolutely. Colt made that game fun to watch. Stepping up into the pocket, firing downfield, able to run when necessary. No dirt balls.
But maybe thats just my perspective after a few weeks of watching Seneca take forever to decide what to do with the ball and then chuck it out of bounds.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
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I think his performance put him in pretty good company with many who have came before and have went on to have very good careers or some that are still playing the game today.
And I've heard the same about Couch, Holcomb, Anderson, Quinn ...
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If he stunk it up I would be the 1st to say he did.
And if he was overwhelmingly impressive, I'd be the first to say he was.
But that wasn't the case ... he wasn't great, he wasn't bad ... he was ... drumroll ... mediocre.
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You must be a bean counter (accountant) for a living
Writer.
That assumption would make many folks who know me laugh heartily.
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he got sacked and took off more than your AVG QB, that's why I included them
More than another rookie in his first start against possibly the best defense in the NFL on the road with very few weapons?... like that kind of average?
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Ok, but then subtract the sack loss yds...se? it works both ways
Net passing yards already have the sack yards taken out.
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...and how many of those were in the first 54min? Ahhh
I don't care. you are the one that thinks the stats and the game should be divided up.. I think it was a 60 minute game.
yebat' Putin
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...and how many of those were in the first 54min? Ahhh
I don't care. you are the one that thinks the stats and the game should be divided up.. I think it was a 60 minute game.
I'm defending Django, oh my. The game was out of reach when he finally scored, They were in prevent. That's why it matters.
He wasn't terrible but he wasn't great either. Being better then charlie frye isn't that huge of an accomplishment.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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NRTU
Does starting McCoy preclude drafting another QB?
I don't think so.
If you have the chance to draft a Bradford or Luck, or Manning, Rivers, etc. You draft them.
Playing McCoy provide an opportunity to answer an uncertainty. That is who will be the next Browns QB. If it is McCoy we will have a better idea after a number of games.
QB is the most important position in the game. If you don't have a QB you don't have a team. The Browns are proof.
What is the differential of playing Delhomme, Wallace or McCoy? We can't really say at this point in time. Delhomme hasn't played enough, and a healthy Wallace may be better than McCoy.
McCoy did not stink up the joint. There were no missed snaps or fumbles, or TO's due to poor clock management, Or the dreaded ill advised throw interception. All positive indications that the game was not too big for him.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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I think his performance put him in pretty good company with many who have came before and have went on to have very good careers or some that are still playing the game today.
And I've heard the same about Couch, Holcomb, Anderson, Quinn ...
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If he stunk it up I would be the 1st to say he did.
And if he was overwhelmingly impressive, I'd be the first to say he was.
But that wasn't the case ... he wasn't great, he wasn't bad ... he was ... drum roll ... mediocre.
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You must be a bean counter (accountant) for a living
Writer.
That assumption would make many folks who know me laugh heartily.
If you read what I wrote.....I was not directing that statement towards you, but that was meant for DJ and all his wacky made up on the spot stats
No I do not agree with you that it was simply mediocre and maybe I have a diffterent standards for rookie's starting their 1st game and then maybe you do not.
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Hell, just give the kid a shot this week against the Saints who aren't as strong on D as Pitt and he's at home and see what he does.
After that, debate it.
#GMSTRONG
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LOL I STILL think would love to be a fly on the wall when they say "Well colt, you survived Pittsburgh, New Orleans, New England, and The New York Jets .. Who gets the start for Jacksonville and Carolina with Buffalo only two weeks past that? Oh we're putting one of the veterans back in ... "
Once again ... Im not arguing any decision ... just think it would be reallllly funny ...
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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to add, what if Colt plays well vs. Saints (doesn't have to win, just play well)... and after the bye, Seneca or Jake is healthy enough to start at CBS & they get the call... and then suck... yeah there might be chants for Colt.
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If a franchise type QB is available, you take him. I'd rather have Brees and Rivers than Frye and nobody.
Quoted this just in case anybody missed it.
I'm still in the AJ Green camp, but this gives me pause.
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Aside from the fact that you and DjingoBrown don't know come here from sic 'em about McCoy's strengths displayed in the game last Sunday, both of you have missed one of Colt's greatest attributes: he's got pure, unadulterated GUTS. He will be okay and show what he can do, but you guys won't see it because you don't want to. I hope he doesn't read this stuff. I'm sure it was hard enough to prepare for the steelers, but to have people claiming to be fans and then shooting at him from the back would have made it harder. The only good thing is that you have not made one documented, factual statement, so you are firing blanks.
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to add, what if Colt plays well vs. Saints (doesn't have to win, just play well)... and after the bye, Seneca or Jake is healthy enough to start at CBS & they get the call... and then suck... yeah there might be chants for Colt.
might? do rabbits poop?
Well everyone but KoB will be chanting... he will just be blaming Mangini because rabbits are pooping.
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
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If McCoy does't decent, then no.. Regardless of how he played this year atleast, I wasn't considering drafting any QB next year.. To me it's obvious we need an elite WR.. or another corner to put with fellow Joe Haden.
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If we have no QB and Colt shows no signs of promise and seneca and jake are done AND we cant bring in ANOTHER vet ... I guess we go after a QB.
I still don't know how likely that is though because even though our "holmy" tried to trade up for bradford reportedly .. he has still never drafted a QB early ... and I think only once or twice as high as the third. I would actually be looking for him to try and trade for one rather than draft one high.
That being said ... I think we could be taking a QB almost every year in the draft from now on .. somewhere from the 5th to 7th if the kid has promise .. but maybe as early as the 3rd or 4th ..
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
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I expect us to draft another mid-round QB even if Colt pans out. Under no circumstance do I expect us to go after a high round QB.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I'm going to say it again because it seems to be falling on deaf ears when it shouldn't be.
COLT MCCOY WON THE RESPECT OF THE OFFENSIVE LINE. WINNING THE RESPECT OF THE OFFENSIVE LINE IN THE NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE IS THE SINGLE HARDEST THING FOR A QB TO DO.
Brady Quinn never won their respect.
Charlie Frye never won their respect.
Jeff Garcia never won their respect.
Tim Couch never won their respect.
Last edited by Ammo; 10/20/10 08:54 AM.
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Did you guys hear something?
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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No that's definately a good point. But we cannot allow ourselves to be so anxious for the coming of a franchise quarterback that we look for reasons to annoint him.
Winning the O Line respect is a major plus. However, it is only one bullet point on the path to becoming a franchise quarterback, just like "lead a two minute scoring drive," "defeat a rival," "stand in the pocket and make a great play downfield with pressure coming," ... Im not discrediting the O-Line thing ... Im just saying dont make it too more .. OR LESS than it is.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 56
Rookie
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Rookie
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 56 |
Quote:
I'm going to say it again because it seems to be falling on deaf ears when it shouldn't be.
COLT MCCOY WON THE RESPECT OF THE OFFENSIVE LINE. WINNING THE RESPECT OF THE OFFENSIVE LINE IN THE NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE IS THE SINGLE HARDEST THING FOR A QB TO DO.
Brady Quinn never won their respect.
Charlie Frye never won their respect.
Jeff Garcia never won their respect.
Tim Couch never won their respect.
I'm not really sure why you are responding to me with this post. I agree with you 100%!!!!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,086
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,086 |
Colt was pretty solid. A rookie cubee, against one of the NFL's most effective D's, with a marginal OC and lossing what few weapons he had, put up decent numbers, ran on them, threw on them (I give the two picks to the receivers as well), got rid of it when he should a few times, was mobile, and he really stayed after it. That said, we need time for the "real" starters to heal. I think he gets the shot because he has earned it. Question is, is a healthy and mobile QB at 100% better for us than an experienced signal caller who is marginal, maybe 80% tops in the case of JD and SW? I say give the man-child the ball. And some better assistance to throw. And somebody who can field punts. He is probably the most accurate passer, scrambles better than JD, and headed into bye week, more time for those two is helpful for treatments and recovery. I think it is smart because the kid needs some time to develop and this week would help that if he is pressed into duty later in the season; I do not like on the game training, but NOT giving him the chance is like the BQ foolishness where he wasn't mentored and got games without knowing how to prep. If he is our best hope for this week, I am fine with it. He did more than enough well to warrant the nod. Let us see whether we have a quality keeper or not now. I also mention that being a little more limited is not all bad. We were relying on the Cribbs WildElf stuff, but didn't get it off the shelf before he went down. Not sure Cribbs up the middle (surprise!) would have fooled anybody. McBoy gives us a strength, accurate passing. If Daboll can get force some folks out of the box for a week, he can pick at them, maybe not own them, but hurt them. But I have yet to see the screens, misdirections, counters, running outside the packed middle that might help a young passer. Think he needs to get a nod. Dress the better of the two outs for an emergency.   
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,044
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,044 |
Quote:
might? do rabbits poop?
Well everyone but KoB will be chanting... he will just be blaming Mangini because rabbits are pooping.
Come on now..I told you people im finished calling for Mangini...the dude is as good as fired at the end of the year..that horse has passed.
Do any of you watch STO? Well last night:
A reporter on STO said and I quote:
"Holmgren and Mangini have clashed behind closed doors in recent weeks a source tells me, they don't see eye to eye on the way a number of things have been handled so far"
Thats what the reporter said...the rumors have begun..Eric is finished here in this city barring a miracle turn around
So I don't have to call for his head...the rumors are already starting about Mangini and Holmgren "not seeing eye to eye" already...as the losses mount, they will get stronger and more frequent
unless this guy starts winning, he is done here...Holmgren either wants to take over himself or bring in someone like Mooch, Gruden, perhaps someone off the Philadlphia Eagles staff...someone him and Heckert are familiar with...I just don't see Mangini surviving this year unless he starts winning some games...I just don't see it..
Holmgren = WCO
Heckert - WCO
Mangini - Bellichik
I just don't see it...H&H want players that fit a completely different system then Eric wants to run...I just don't see it working...no way...Holmgren will go with what he knows works (WCO) it is what it is..
Colt McCoy is good enough to build around...you just gotta give him time to develop...you want to ruin 2 QB again like we did Quinn and Anderson by all means draft another 1st rder so Colt can hear nothing but chants for the 1st rder after he throws for 300 + and 3 TD..just like the fans wanted Quinn after Anderson threw 4 TDS,.,,retarded..but thats what will happen.
This team needs Defense...draft D and get a WR and another RB and let Colt develop under a real O- mind coach like Mooch, Holmgren, or Gruden...
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
yes, Holmgren knows the WCO and the FO is staffed with WCO people. I still don't see how that doesn't mesh with Mangini.
First, with the Jets, he ran a modified-WCO that they still run today (basically WCO pass routes with a more straight-ahead smashmouth ground game). I believe we are trying to run a similar offense (hard to tell without a passing game to speak of, but we'll see with Colt).
Second, Holmgren cares more about how the offense is run. Mangini cares more about how the defense is run (by their previous backgrounds). So, explain to me why Holmgren couldn't just inject more of his offensive philosophy into the Browns and continue to allow Mangini to direct the defense?
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
Quote:
The schedule is what it is.
But a high ankle sprang is at least a 6 week injury.
Your lucky to walk without a boot or crutches before 4 weeks.
If all things are = and all of our QB's are healthy then one could argue that a veteran gives us a better chance to win this year, but if they are not 100% then I think we have to go with Colt weather or not he has the weapons to deliver wins.
Actually thats the only thing that matters.
When Wallace is ready to go,you start him again unless McCoy is red hot.
But if not then you have him backing up Wallace as before..JD ..I think he's done..I didn't think he had much anyway.
What I want to see is how he handles it, and how the Browns develop him.
They've got to get a receiver out there for him to throw to.
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