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Oh thank Gawd the drama team made it to Berea and dropped Seneca off! I was afraid we might need to go the whole season without the QB controversy. And doing it in the media? Yeah, a Seneca mistake that. I am OK with Mcoy starting and SW healing. Say what he will, Seneca should look at the other side of the coin as well. "Hi, my name is Colt McCoy, and my team just injured and insulted the SB champeens from last year. If that isn't enough to be given next start, what would you have him do? What MUST he do to get the nod? SW, team up, dude. Gini plays them both perhaps next week?
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Whatsa matta ,?
A bit irked cuze someone else on the team doesn't agree with U?
I told U already,in this case I don't agree Jake shouldn't be starter again,I don't need to see a turnover machine waiting to get turned up again.
Not my fault Holmy outbid himself for Jake..so I have no loyalty to him.He would never have been my choice..at least not for that money.
See what U don't get ,U and I don't analize things the same..U get caught up with feelings..which is sometimes why U can't can't take a stand..I want results done the right way.
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Delhomme was the original starter this year.. Wallace came in after that.
In my eyes, Delhomme gets first crack if healthy.... Wallace next.. and if neither can play,,, the question becomes moot.. It's McCoy.
If Mangini puts that interception machine Jake back in at all this year he deserves to be fired on the spot...Jake should not see the field anymore this year..Jake should have already been cut...make room for another player...the guy is finished....
As for QB...right now...you go with McCoy...he has gotten better every week...for the first time since we have returned I do not "cringe" when Colt McCoy drops back to pass...he is not an INT waiting to happen....Seneca is a backup. he is what he is, we don't know for sure yet what we have with Colt...it looks promising so far though....McCoy is growing right now before our very eyes..let him play...iot will only help us moving forward right now.
Jake Dellhomme is worse then Paul McDonald..you would be better off having Cribbs play QB then him...I know I won't watch that INT machine if they put him out there....We would have been better off keeping Anderson(who is younger) then signing Jake...Jake actually makes worse reads and throws then Anderson did.,..I didn't think that was possible..but he does...
under no shape or form do you put him back in...in fact when Jake comes back from injury the only thing you should do is CUT HIM....I'd take Rattliff over him...Jake is done..no sense in bring him back...cut the guy....keep Ratliff...atleast Ratliff is a body..Jake isn't even that... 
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WOW,, are you ever off the wall,, Geesh 
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Jake played roughly one half of one game before getting dinged...
How you can say he's going to be a INT machine is beyond belief...
Unless you look at last season.. then of course, you have to discount his good years as well...
To each his own I guess, but he was the starter and if he's able, all things being equal, I think you gotta start him. Same with Wallace for that matter if Delhomme isn't able.
By the way,, just so I'm clear, Im really hoping that McCoy gets a couple more games to show us his stuff... I think if he does that well, the question of who to start becomes moot.
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Quote:
Jake played roughly one half of one game before getting dinged...
that first half though Jake looked pretty decent besides that play he got hurt on, and decided to throw it sidearms for the pick 6...
I think if Delhomme is a full 100%, he may still be our best option to turn this season around.
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IF Jake is 100% healthy, sure. If he's favoring the ankle just a bit, go with someone else. Heck, the same goes for Wallace.
But that decision is still based on what EM can see in practice and from other players feedback. If JD and SW are 100%, McCoy is playing at the same level, and some players are backing Colt......goodness, tough decision.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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I think some are forgetting (conveniently enough) that Jake was playing very well before his injury.
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... while others are forgetting (conveniently enough) that the side-arm throw he made right to Ronde Barber as we were driving toward at least a FG attempt late in the 2nd half is emblematic of JD's decision-making as games go on. Even when he was at the top of his game, he was good for 2-3 head-scratchers like that. Delhomme is what he is: a "gunslinging" QB who is past his prime and probably should be toting a clip board on his way to retirement. Just my opinion.
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Maybe I am wrong but if I remember correctly he was hit as he threw that pass and that hit caused both the Int. and the injury.To that point he was playing just fine.
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There was pressure, he was caught from behind and threw the ball as he was going down. He had no business throwing that ball the way he did. Either throw it away or eat it. It was the kind of decision that has plagued him his whole career.
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Quote:
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Jake played roughly one half of one game before getting dinged...
that first half though Jake looked pretty decent besides that play he got hurt on, and decided to throw it sidearms for the pick 6...
I think if Delhomme is a full 100%, he may still be our best option to turn this season around.
Honestly, that feels like a million years ago so I don't remember his stats prior to the injury.. But I'll take your word for it.
TO me, what he did in that game has no bearing on it. with only a half of football before the injury, it would be hard to tell what you have in Delhomme thus detractors have to go back a year.. different team, different system,, anything is possible...
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IF Jake is 100% healthy, sure. If he's favoring the ankle just a bit, go with someone else. Heck, the same goes for Wallace.
that makes perfect sense..
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But that decision is still based on what EM can see in practice and from other players feedback. If JD and SW are 100%, McCoy is playing at the same level, and some players are backing Colt......goodness, tough decision.
Could get a little dicey I guess.. But mangini is the coach and as far as I know, it's his call....
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Quote:
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IF Jake is 100% healthy, sure. If he's favoring the ankle just a bit, go with someone else. Heck, the same goes for Wallace.
that makes perfect sense..
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But that decision is still based on what EM can see in practice and from other players feedback. If JD and SW are 100%, McCoy is playing at the same level, and some players are backing Colt......goodness, tough decision.
Could get a little dicey I guess.. But mangini is the coach and as far as I know, it's his call....
If it's Mangini's call, after leaving Jake in when he was hurt, then putting him back in still hurt when Wallace went down, I just hope someone else is dialing the phone for him.
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Honestly, that feels like a million years ago so I don't remember his stats prior to the injury..
Delhomme before the injury was:
10/16 for 101 yds and 1 TD for a 101.302 QB Rating....
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Quote:
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Honestly, that feels like a million years ago so I don't remember his stats prior to the injury..
Delhomme before the injury was:
10/16 for 101 yds and 1 TD for a 101.302 QB Rating....
thank u for doing that..
I do know we were moving the ball very well.. Heck.. even MoMass got a TD catch.
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It was something I noticed immediately with Favre on Sunday Night...
When a QB gets injured...if he stays in I feel like there are going to be a lot of interceptions and bad throws. I say once they are hurt you pull them immediately. Don't have any data to back this up, but Delhomme and Favre serve as decent examples that it may be true.
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Quote:
Quote:
Honestly, that feels like a million years ago so I don't remember his stats prior to the injury..
Delhomme before the injury was:
10/16 for 101 yds and 1 TD for a 101.302 QB Rating....
Thanks for doing that, and I know most fans are eternal optimists, but 16 games last year is a much more telling sample size than 16 pass attempts this year. Plus, if you can't stay healthy, you aren't doing your team any favors. Just saying...
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Quote:
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Honestly, that feels like a million years ago so I don't remember his stats prior to the injury..
Delhomme before the injury was:
10/16 for 101 yds and 1 TD for a 101.302 QB Rating....
Thanks Pete... Kinda says it all doesn't it?
So to those that feel they don't want JD back IF HEALTHY and ABLE, what are you baseing your thoughts on? Last year? What?
#GMSTRONG
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j/k
From my point of View....Colt has it.....Colt has the presents...He might not have everything you can write down on paper & rate but he has what other good QB's have, a since of understanding how to play QB in the NFL....or he has the IT factor...
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j/k
From my point of View....Colt has it.....Colt has the presents...He might not have everything you can write down on paper & rate but he has what other good QB's have, a since of understanding how to play QB in the NFL....or he has the IT factor...
I don't disagree with you Clay,, He's most likely to get one maybe two more starts before Delhomme or Wallace can play... That should confirm your thinking.... we'll see...
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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I agree, King. Nothing is as pathetic as a star over the hill trying to stick it out to prove something to themselves. Prizefighters, pitchers, QBs, etc. Not much tolerance for it. Colt is young, has had success, i.e., the team will play up for him. Jake struggled with rummies we should have beaten.. Lewt him heal; tag Colt for next start, mix in SW, which we were doing, and play. Can't imagine any good for lowering opinion of McCoy; pulled the rabbits out. Not less accurate than JD or SW. Why screw with chemistry? I half expect that gang of four to take Favre back to the bayou if he costs 'em more games. Looks selfish and desperate staying in for starts with picks and misses IMO. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Quote:
Delhomme before the injury was:
10/16 for 101 yds and 1 TD for a 101.302 QB Rating....
 Perfect example of stat manipulation. You conveniently left out the pick-almost-six he threw right to Ronde Barber. He was hurt on that play, but not before he made a horrible decision to throw the ball while going down. He should have eaten the ball. You can check the play out on nfl.com to confirm it. If you add that pick into the equation, his rating drops into the low 70's (which is about 10 points below his career avg. -- in other words, typical Jake).
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10/16 for 101 yds and 1 TD for a 101.302 QB Rating....
Glowing marks for going against the 17th ranked D..not bad but U intentionally forgot his int..oh well..point is ,he's a turnover waiting to happen when presure is applied.
Jake won't be able to start practicing till next Weds,do U think thats time to scrape off the rust and return against NE?
No,it's not ,even if he's healed,which I strongly doubt.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 10/29/10 08:41 AM.
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Don't you wave that finger at me ....  LOL the question was asked as to how Delhomme was doing to that point. He was injured on that play..so I gave the numbers for before the injury...no stat manipulation...I gave what was asked. I did not interpret them. I just gave the stats. You are the one manipulating things....You want to include the interception because it bolsters your agenda...even though that was NOT the question at hand. OK we get it...you don't like Jake Delhomme.....Now you can rip on him all you like...but the fact is......up to that play(which was the question that was asked...not up to and including....) he had the stats I provided. And I am sorry they don't look favorably upon your position....but they are not bad numbers.
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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he's a turnover waiting to happen when presure is applied.
Could be said of any QB including the Peyton Manning's and Tom Brady's of this world....Heck...we pressured and confused Brees into 4 INT's
And before you respond...know this....I am not necessarily in favor of returning Jake if healthy. I am not opposed to it....but I am not pushing for it either...to this point I am just throwing out arbitrary numbers.
For the record, I think the decision needs to come down to this......WHO is this team going to follow??? The last 2 games this team has gotten behind McCoy...not just because he is the QB they put behind Center...but because McCoy has earned their trust. We have seen comments to that effect. But Delhomme had done the same thing...he had done so from the beginning. I don't have a pulse on how the players feel about following Senneca, because we just haven't heard too many comments in that light from the players. I am sure he has their respect...But are they willing to FOLLOW him to the proverbial "Gates of Hell"???
Frankly...we can't get a good idea of who that team is going to follow blindly. The Coaches and FO need to have a good reading on that situation and put the guy in that this team is going to follow. It is the intangible that can't be determined by stats or by us on the outside.
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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NRTU
" What IF" you could see the future, and knew that playing JD or SW gave us a better chance to win THIS year, but playing McCoy gave us the best chance to win several more games NEXT year?
This is the way I see it, with the difference that Colt just might be the best QB RIGHT NOW. Nobody else wanted JD, and Wallace is a career backup. It's not like he's got both Manning brothers to compete with, and both these guys were hired as stopgaps to eventually step out of the way of the new kid. Not necessarily this soon, and not necessarily this kid, but here we are, it's already happened.
For those playing the injury card, what if you "knew" that Colt DID give us the best chance this year? Does the vet still keep his job?
The experience he will get is what he will need next year. The evaluation we do will tell the FO whether we go big on a QB, and use lesser choices for DE, LB, WR and RT, fixing only one or two, or forget drafting a QB and possibly fix most or all in one draft.
Playing Colt helps the team either way, whether he does well or poorly.
I'm not so much abandoning this season, IMO the range of "winnability" of all 3 QB's is fairly close, and only one of them has any chance of getting significantly better thru getting more PT.
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Guess I need to put a repeat icon in here.
The logical thing for me is to start McCoy until Seneca is ready to go.
Now those who want Jake,well I don't ,but I have a hunch Mangini will insert him.
If that does happen I'll watch closely what happens.
Again I don't think Jake will ready to go next week.
I read a little tidbit that Delhomme supposedly said he doesn't want to play until he's 100% as opposed to wanting to get back in there as soon as he can play, even if he's limited. ..I would gather if he said that he knew he shouldn't have been out there against Atlanta and that was a mistake.
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I'm not manipulating anything. I'm only pointing out that you cannot simply ignore Delhomme's pick because he wasn't hurt when he threw it. He was hurt afterward. It is part of his "healthy" record to that point. Look, if it makes people feel better about Jake to say he was playing good up to the point that he tossed the pick, more power to them. I prefer to look at the whole record when evaluating a player's performance. To each his/her own. 
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Quote:
I'm not manipulating anything. I'm only pointing out that you cannot simply ignore Delhomme's pick because he wasn't hurt when he threw it. He was hurt afterward. It is part of his "healthy" record to that point.
Look, if it makes people feel better about Jake to say he was playing good up to the point that he tossed the pick, more power to them. I prefer to look at the whole record when evaluating a player's performance. To each his/her own.
Wasn't he actually hurt on that play.. I think he was. I think he had a guy that was taking him down which may have caused the throw to go off target..
I'd have to see a replay.... But that's the way I remember it...
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J/C, more of a general statement on this thread:
either way, it's sort of a silly argument because it's an incredibly small sample size. less than 1 half of 1 football game where we had the good fortune (and yes skill) of completing a long TD pass (which may skew the statistics as we don't know if that would be a regular occurrance with Jake at QB or not).
anyone that wants to counter on using last season would have to then backup why the larger sample size of his career wouldn't then count. possibly, he's lost a step or some zip on his ball with age or has a mental block, but until he actually would play several games, we would not really know.
ok, that's my piece. enjoy.
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He was hurt after the throw (he got up and started running after Barber -- at least for a while). Video of the pick is available on nfl.com . You can see that Jake felt pressure from his left as he move slightly to his right before he kind of dives and throws at the same time. To me, he clearly thought he could make that throw. Even the commentator says he has to throw that ball away. It was a bad decision and, unfortunately, it isn't out of character for JD to play this way.
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What the stats don't show is the number of times JD threw a pass in that 1st game that had me going "yikes". he had a number of poor decisions in that 1st half that could have been disastrous for the team but fortunately they turned into inconsequential plays.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
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Daman I just can't find a single reason to get Jake back involved... I understand starting the season with him, he had the experience, etc.. but with our record and his injuries and age.. he does nothing for us this year or into the future.. I just don't see it. If you have a blanket rule about losing your job to injury then I guess I can't argue with it, but sometimes the back-up just proves to be better and sometimes the circumstances just change through the year..
For me the discussion is between McCoy and Wallace. I think its funny that Wallace says how important continuity is then argues that is why we should pull the guy that is 1-1 and has started the last couple games so we can bring him back after 4 weeks out...
I also find his argument a bit disengenuous with regards to the guy who moves the ball and scores the points... it's not like Wallace was exactly lighting it up.. McCoys 327 total yards against the steelers is second most this year to Jakes 340 against Tampa Bay.... McCoy's 258 passing yards against the Steelers is the most by any of our QBs this season... We have 5 games where we scored between 10-20 points with all 3 of our qbs or some combination there of.... from pure statistics, Wallace doesn't have a very good argument about regaining the job because moves the team and scores points.... none of our QBs really do.. so Wallace is going to have to come up with something else if he is going to lobby for his job back.
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Quote:
He was hurt after the throw (he got up and started running after Barber -- at least for a while). Video of the pick is available on nfl.com . You can see that Jake felt pressure from his left as he move slightly to his right before he kind of dives and throws at the same time. To me, he clearly thought he could make that throw. Even the commentator says he has to throw that ball away. It was a bad decision and, unfortunately, it isn't out of character for JD to play this way.
Go look at that again,, he wasn't diving, he was being tackled by the ankle,,, he was falling forward as he threw it.. already in motion and couldn't probably pull it down in time...
So, while he may not have been hurt on that play, I was correct in my thought that someone was bringing him down as he threw it..
Same difference...
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LOL... I've looked at that video a bunch of times. Are you sure you looked at the video entitled "Barber picks off pass, runs out of gas?" From the side, there is no way anybody could say Delhomme was falling forward. He was definitely falling backward and to his right as he tried to jump away from the pressure and throw the ball at the same time.
Regardless, it doesn't really matter now. I'll go back to my original post on this: I don't want to see Delhomme out there if he isn't 100% healthy. Period. If he's healthy and Mangini decides to play him, then we'll see how it goes. However, like Attack, I have very little faith in him. :: shrug ::
Given that he's recovering from two separate injuries to his leg, I'd be surprised if he was ready to come back the week after the bye though.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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U need to go back and pause that baby through the sequence..Jack was straight back in the pocket ..saw pressure from up the middle , starts to move right, ,the DT is in his face, he starts leaning right to escape the lunging lineman and throws offbalanced but he's hit in the legs by the DE looping around AFTER he releases and is falling backward..he should have eaten the ball or threw it in the dirt..
Problem is he thought he could force the throw.
The Browns were up 14..he didn't have to force a play.
Clicked on the wrong person,this is for Daman.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 10/29/10 02:25 PM.
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Ehhh... that's what I've been saying throughout this conversation. He definitely tried to force the throw.
I was replying specifically to Daman's assertion that JD was falling forward.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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Joined: Sep 2006
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I thought I had clicked on to Daman..that was a mistake..kinda like Jake's.. 
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Hall of Famer
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[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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