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Actually, I was thinking of Donta Hightower (had to go look it up).
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
j/c
If we pick a tweener in the first three rounds I will vomit.
even if our FO fully believes they have found the next DeMarcus Ware?
#gmstrong
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You mean Marcell Dareus? I'd be completely on board with grabbing him in the 12-15 range 
I'd also be completely on board with signing a vet WR via FA before the draft and then grabbing another WR with one of our 2nd/3rd/4th round picks. We certainly need some help there.
I would be estatic if we cna land Marcell Dareus
that dude is an IMPACT Front 7 Player...that dude will swallow Rb and eat QB...that dude has looked dominant....that dude is a game changer....
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Quote:
Quote:
The margins of victory in terms of points in the NFL is not very big...games are very close most of the time...you need a Defense that can hang on to a lead to win games...you need a Defense that can get itself off the field quickly to give your offense more opportunities to score...
I have to agree completely.
The value of a defense that can force Field Goals where the opponent may normally get a Touchdown is immense.
Every single one is a 4-point swing... that's HUGE.
Had we done that on just ONE of their TD drives in regulation yesterday, it's Game Over for them. Instead, they converted about 400 3rd downs chewing up 716 minutes of clock and we couldn't get off the field. Holding them to one more FG, or even forcing a Punt... would have been insanely awesome.
exactly! Prp you hit the nail on the head perfectly at what i was getting at 
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Justin Houston already plays in a 3-4. How about him?
Also to no logo:
I know nothing of Justin Houston and will make a few other admissions here...
Between the Wimbley and Veikune "tweeners" I am as jaded as jaded can be when it comes to the "tweener" pick.
To be fair, those guys were picked by men with, shall I say, 'questionable' draft-talent evaluation skills.
Savage thought he had his DeMarcus Ware in Wimbley...Mangini thought he had his ??? in Veikune.
I do not follow college football or the draft in anywhere near the detail that you guys do. I will get on board with a potential "tweener" and research a little when you come up with a prospect. I appreciate the fact that you guys have the stones to throw out an opinion(s) on a player(s).
My problem is that it seems to me that the pick of a "tweener" often times becomes a gamble...and we have not been in a position to gamble for a long time. (If we ARE going to gamble, I feel a lot better with Heckert/Holmgren holding the cards/dice/pick.)
I now feel that we are one offseason away from putting together a team that will compete for the playoffs for a fairly long time.
However, we have enough holes to fill with "first-day" picks (old "first day" meaning rounds 1-3) that we are still NOT in position to gamble on an early pick.
I'll get behind any player we pick...I just hate when we take a chance on "day one" picks given the mess we've been in and now given the possibility that we are very close to having a perennial playoff contending team.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The margins of victory in terms of points in the NFL is not very big...games are very close most of the time...you need a Defense that can hang on to a lead to win games...you need a Defense that can get itself off the field quickly to give your offense more opportunities to score...
I have to agree completely.
The value of a defense that can force Field Goals where the opponent may normally get a Touchdown is immense.
Every single one is a 4-point swing... that's HUGE.
Had we done that on just ONE of their TD drives in regulation yesterday, it's Game Over for them. Instead, they converted about 400 3rd downs chewing up 716 minutes of clock and we couldn't get off the field. Holding them to one more FG, or even forcing a Punt... would have been insanely awesome.
exactly! Prp you hit the nail on the head perfectly at what i was getting at
I think everyone agrees with this sentiment. The only difference is in how we get to the point of having "that" defense...what are we missing to get "there".
I will stick with the defense for this post - even though I think a stud WR is as much a priority as any other position right now.
I believe our front seven has a handful of young players who are difference-makers at their position. (Rubin, Roth, Gocong...maybe Benard some day.)
We have a handful of old guys who likely have a year to three left in them and at an average to above-average level of play. (Coleman, R Smith, Rogers, Fujita)
We have two dinasours and an oft-injured vet who have questionable futures beyond this year. (Bowens, Barton, DQ.)
We have a slew of young guys with potential who are - at worst - serviceable backups and good to very good STers. (Trusnick, Maivia, Robinson, T Brown, Costanzo)
Are we "set" in the front 7? No...of course not. However, we have 7 legitimate starters and several serviceable-to-quality backups. We could sure use a stud in that front 7.
IMO, our defensive backfield is the opposite of our front 7.
Our best DBs are both rookies.
The best CB has not even started yet over two guys...one who is likely near the end of his career and another who appears to have regressed in the 4 short years of his career.
Our best S looks to be the real deal but his dance partner is in his fourth year of "potential" and looks to be a keeper...as a backup.
The best backup DB is Mike Adams. I like Mike Adams...but he is limited to say the least.
We have two legitimate starters in the defensive backfield...and they are both rookies.
We have two/three legitimate backups who are starters right now...and we have one serviceable backup who is actually a...backup.
I'd like a front 7 stud - no tweeners early please - but we can get by another year with the guys presently on our roster. This group has played well while not spectacular. I'd be in favor of being active in FA focused here.
The defensive backfield is in near dire straits. We do not have true starters across the group and have decent backups dressed up as starters.
Don't take offence to my preference this year for DBs over the front 7. It's just that the most glaring "hole" we have right now is in our defensive backfield.
I think the DBs have been every-bit as responsible for the defense being unable to get off the field as have been the front 7.
In the end, I think we can get by with our current front 7 and the DBs are a glaring problem right now.
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umm....glad I started this thread to talk about Free Agent Wide Recievers....not sure how it got turned into a discussion on who to draft for the defense.   Does anyone here actually want to talk about who is out there that could help our offense? I mentioned maybe Javon Walker, or L. Coles (not event going to try to spell his name right) Either of these guys would help IMO more than Robo is/has...thoughts?
#brownsgoodkarma
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Legend
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"L-a-v-e-r-a-n-u-e-s"......just how it sounds. 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Sorry to participate in derailing the thread...unfortunately there do not appear to be any real options out there. This late in the year I would think that any viable guys would be taken by now. I am a little surprised that Ingram did not stick anywhere...he looked ok this pre-season. No less ok than Robo I suppose. That cupboard is as bare as...well...our DBs. 
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Yeah you are prolly right, I just cant belive that Robo is our best option. He does nothing right!
#brownsgoodkarma
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Quote:
Yeah you are prolly right, I just cant belive that Robo is our best option. He does nothing right!
he must do something right, but it's too hard to tell because he never gets open enough to show it
sadly, he's probably the best option. especially with teams like the Rams, Colts, and Chargers going through WRs this year like they are candy. the FA-WR pool has got to be completely bare at this point.
as for Willie, I see your point about gambling early. though any position is a gamble, Tweener is often an extra gamble because it usually involves a position change as only a few teams run the 3-4 in college. It's just one of the positions of biggest need for our team (along with WR Tubby  ), which is why it got brought up.
#gmstrong
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I checked another site and, aside from Coles and Walker, I found listed Reggie Williams, Devard Darling, David Tyree, Kelley Washington, Marty Booker and a few others listed as not being signed with a team. I do seem to remember Washington signing with somebody but I do not know who. Also Antonio Bryant is out there I believe. I remember the Bengals signing him and then terminating his contract. It seems any of these guys might be an improvement but you gotta believe the coaching staff has discussed all the available wideouts already. Anybody see someone worth signing? If healthy Coles, Walker or Bryant would be my guess.
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I'm pretty sold on Mass being at least a solid #2 for the forseeable future... Not really ever a #1 though... I just don't see it from him... I'm going to continue to fall back on the "WRs take at least 3 years to get good" speil and give Robiskie next year to ya know.. actually show me something... More than one catch every 3 games... I said that about Travis Wilson too though... 
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I would work out Reggie Williams, Marty Booker, and Antonio Bryant. Any of these guys are hands down better than Robo IMO.....also Would like to see what Javon Walker or L. Coles could do.....its hard to tell how much time Cribbs is going to miss. Quote:
I checked another site and, aside from Coles and Walker, I found listed Reggie Williams, Devard Darling, David Tyree, Kelley Washington, Marty Booker and a few others listed as not being signed with a team. I do seem to remember Washington signing with somebody but I do not know who. Also Antonio Bryant is out there I believe. I remember the Bengals signing him and then terminating his contract. It seems any of these guys might be an improvement but you gotta believe the coaching staff has discussed all the available wideouts already. Anybody see someone worth signing? If healthy Coles, Walker or Bryant would be my guess.
#brownsgoodkarma
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Robo doesn't need another year.
It's not like he's getting on the field regularly and just can't get open..... he's hardly getting on the field (unless Cribbs is hurt).
I mean, even with Cribbs hurt, he's still our 3rd WR - at best, 4th with Cribbs able to play.
Bring in a big-time WR and they all get better. Cribbs & MoMass make for good #2's and Stuckey is a solid Slot guy.
Robo is Special Teams or Bust.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Legend
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Can we just keep Morre at WR? Seriously he reminded me of JJ with his hands and size out there...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Yeah,...It ain't like we use him as a bonafide TE,...we got Watson for that.
He's, at a minimum, as good a WR as MM.
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I'm on the record in saying Evan Moore has the best hands of anybody on this team, including WR's. Problem is, he's a "tweener" in his own right. Too big/slow to be an every down WR, too small and quick to be a blocking TE.
I agree though, our WR corps is putrid and if Cribbs is out any time it becomes epically anemic. I see no reason why we can't run a lot of 2 TE sets with Watson as our primary "typical" TE and give Moore the option to put a hand down next to Ben or to motion out wide as a receiving option like we did with KW2. I think he deserves, and our offense needs, Moore on the field more. I just don't like the idea of him lining up as a typical WR every down.
Another thing to think about. We've definitely established our identity as a smash-mouth run first team with Hillis. That requires everybody selling out to be physical and block. Even though Moore may be our best receiver, any chance we're going more FB with Vickers over 2 TE simply due to blocking? Not stating as a fact, just that it seems likely/possible that Moore may not be a great blocker and Mangini/Daboll are willing to sacrifice some aspects of the passing game in order to get max effort for the run game.
Last edited by GraffZ06; 11/16/10 02:24 PM.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Maybe I havnt been paying much attention, but last game seemed like we ran a lot of 2 tight end sets with robert royal on running downs. I oculd be wrong though.
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