DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Time to make a change...again

[color:"white"]Because as some said last week, the Steelers suck and the Bengals don't. BUT, the common denominator between the two is that they have some gifted receivers, and we're starting a bunch of street free agents in our secondary.

Then there's our offensive line, that will make most teams D-line's look really good.

People can criticize RAC if they so choose, but I can't criticize the jockey who's on the back of a jackass when he finishes last in the Kentucky Derby.[/color]

First I'll say there is no excuse. Period. I would like to ask, didn't we only have like 2 days to practice or something for Thanksgiving and the extra day off.

I really don't think we're that far off, even with yesterday's performance. I honestly think that we will draft a stud LT (Thomas sounds about right) and move Schaffer to RT where he is used to the duties of protecting the QBs front side. If LB comes back heatlhy, we have him or Hank go to LG, whichever is better, and move Tucker to RG. We still have Sowells developing and draft another G in the later rounds. We also draft DL or pick up some in FA....or both. When our corners are healthy, we have added depth with the experience these guys are getting this year.

I'll agree with something I read that Carson Palmer said.....he stated the Browns were 2 or 3 players from being contenders.

Hey Coach let me ask u this lol Your star receiver is dogging your safety in the press and then tries to get physical with your quarterback on the sideline. Do you send him right back in on the very next offensive play?

Sorry to chime in,...well, not in middle or high school (my experience level) and I'm not siding with BE, but this is the NFL and this is what we've become accustomed to; overpaid, overrated, high, holier-than-thou, me-me-me draft picks. Our society has perpetrated this bonanza without a system of accountability.

I coached one of BE's younger distant cousins---he was cut from exactly the same "mold."

I would agree with you but I see RAC actually pulling his head outta his ass and coaching for yet another season ending meaningless win that takes us out of the Joe Thomas Sweepstakes... <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

My level isn't nearly that of RAC's obviously, but no, I don't. Now it's coming out that Edwards wasn't going at Frye, but at the OL and was showing them Frye's jersey to make his point. It's still wrong and should have been done in the locker room, but it wasn't like Edwards was attacking Frye, as originally thought.

Now that would be a breath of fresh air.

[color:"white"] What's with the constant attempts to insult my intelligence? [/color]

not trying to insult your intelligence ... your more than likely a smarter man that I .. I aint very smart(i'm guessing u can spell better than me to .. *L*) .. but theres a big difference between the following 3 things ...

Intelligents .. football knowledge ... lack of patience ceated by unrealistic expectations ... and just to clarify the last one so I do'tn have to come back to it later ... EXPECTATIONS covers a much wider spectrum than just record .. in this case it would mean expecting RAC to perform miracles with a LACK OF TALENT and the talent we do have being either YOUNG and/or INEXPERIENCED .... U admit that .. but yet expect him to have these guys doing things there not capable of ... <img src="/images/graemlins/plthumbsdown.gif" alt="" />

[color:"white"] I've learned in life that when people have a serious insecurity problem, they try and belittle other people. [/color]

yes ... you've figured me out .. i'm very insecure .... *L* ..

[color:"white"] You have no idea how smart I am...or how patient...and you have no idea what I do and do not know about football.
[/color]

your 100% right .. I have no clue on any of the above as I will admit I have never read a thing u ever said until this thread ... so al I have to go on is what you've said in this thread ...

I believe your a smart man .. prolly smarter than me ... I was taught to never underestimate anyone/ever ... and until they prove otherwise think there very good at everythig .... this discussion has nothing to do with INTELLIGENCE .... intelligence has nothing to do with football knowledge ... now if u know football and are intelligent thats a good combo and u may be both ... but i recieve conflicting points of view here from U ...

on one hand u say your patient and know football .. on the other hand u want to fire a coach that u admit has a lack of talent and alot of youth for not meeting your expectations of product on the field/stubborness .... that would lead me to the LOGICAL CONCLUSION that one or both of the above aren't true .. I'm only DRAWING LOGICAL CONCLUSIONS based on the info you've provided me about your opinions on this subject from the info your giving me here ...

and here u re-itterate u know theres a lack of talent ... so it must be although your more patient than 90% of the people in the world on this subject you are in the bottom 10% of patience ...

Sorry but thats what your saying here ... dont get pi$$ed at me for pointing it out .. albiet in a much harsher way than most would ... <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

[color:"white"] Before you insult my intelligence or football knowledge again, you should do a little research. Sowells was a 4th round pick...not a 5th. And yes, I do expect that a 4th round OL draft pick would be active on game day with an OL in need of as much help as we are. (BTW, I wouldn't care that you missed the round if you weren't so hell bent on insulting me.)
[/color]

thanks for pointing that out .. i learned sumptin today ... and now i'm getting even more conflicting signals .... cause i may not know the exact rnd we picked sowells in (i do now .. thanks .. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />) but i do know that VERY FEW IF ANY 4th rnd OL step in and see much time ANYWHERE in the NFL .... 99.9% of them are drafted NO MATTER HOW BAD THE TEAMS OL IS as projects .... NON PROJECT OLmen go in rnds 1 and 2 and theres a few that fall to rnd 3 .... after that its PROJECTVILLE ....

so thi smakes me again question how much U actually know about this particular issue .. (again i am not insulting your intelligence ....as this has nuttin to do with intelligence ... i am however questioning your knowledge of this particular situation .. ) .. again I'm sorry but the fact is what u say just doesnt make alot of sense .....

[color:"white"] Regarding Wilson...again, I expect every year's 3rd round pick to at least be active on game day. Not a stud or even a starter necessarily...and I am NOT saying either guy is a bust. BE was out early and we drafted this guy to be a player in '07. [/color]

so let me get this straight .... your saying neither Sowells or Wilson is a bust but one of the reasons RAC must go is because there not seeing the light of day this year therefore he is a bad personal evaluator (thats what U said in your past post) ... OK . U need to explain this to me as I'm confused .... witch is it?? were they bad picks cause they can tget on the field this year like u said in your first post or are they guys that need more time before gien the bust label??? let me know .... <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I gotta go so i can;t continue ... like u i won't be swayed but unlike u I am not impatient and am willing to give a person time to do the job I hired them to do without lynching him pre-maturely .... i mean u site stubborness as one of the big issues .. yet he has only been stubborn in one instance (MO) ... and guess what menza ... Mo may have been PART OF THE PROBLEM but guess what .... our O is just as bad or worse without him ... why?? CAUSE WE HAVE NO TALENT ON THE OL and we have a HUGE ??? MARK AT QB ... Bill Walsh would have been fired if given this O to work with ...

and like u i wont defend him a million times .... i stated what should be done and why .... and i wont continue to do that .....

nice chattin with U .... I know u taught me a few things ... hopefully i did the same for U ...

good thing the RBs weren't around or they would have been included in his little meltdown .. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

They would deserve it, too.....behind closed doors. Harrison looked like he never heard of a blitz pickup let alone try to attempt one.

[color:"white"]Don't tell that to some folks around here. They don't believe blocking plays a role in whether or not a back should be in the game. [/color]

There wouldn't have been any fists flying had I have been in Charlies shoes.

My helmet smacked squarely up side his head would have ended the whole thing,immediatly!

We know why he isn't in there..he's clueless about blitz pickups..which MAKES ME WONDER why he's in there on passing downs IF HE'S staying in to help out.

Harrison is actually reminiscient of how poor William Green was at blitz pickups early on... he just looks totally lost back there.

[color:"white"]I wonder if he can return punts.......[/color]

a couple li'l points-

Toad: I knew there had to be a reason why we weren't seeing Harrison more often, earlier in the year. A couple games ago, I got my answer: no blocking, bobbled outlet pass, fumble. Yesterday's performance simply drilled lesson #1 home... with authority. Kid may have talent, but he's sorely lacking in skills as yet.

Same might be said for Charlie, at this point. He's already showing early-onset symptoms of "Sofa-itis" (...since I can't use the 'C-Word' in this forum... hehe), and may never grow out of it. I still think the pooch got screwed when Dilfer wanted to bolt- Charlie should STILL be on the sidelines with a clipboard, awaiting '07 as his coming-out year. Such ain't the case, and we have what we have. Better OL = better Charlie? Most definitely, but how much better? One of the mysteries of life that can't be solved until this offseason.

CoachB: Your remarks about Braylon's sidelines display and his subsequent explaination was exactly why I waited until today to post anything. I heard his explaination on NFLN today, and find it at least plausible. Until I hear anything from other players to the contrary, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on this one. If it was just fire and frustration that we saw, it may work out anyway... we haven't had much fire since '99, and could use some. Maybe we were seeing some leadership, maybe a petulant meltdown... hard one to call, at this point. Young men don't always excercize the best judgement (and getting captured on-camera certainly was bad judgement), but at least I saw one player with a heartbeat yesterday.

___________________________________________

RAC's staying, kids. Randy as much as said so just 10 days ago. It's the right move, too. You don't give a craftsman half the tools he needs to build your project, then fire him before all the tools and supplies arrive on-site.

in all do respect Toad, this is garbage

We went 6-10 last year, 7-9 or 8-8 is a "feasible" goal this year, even with the injury to Bentley.

We spent Millions and Millions of dollars on Bentley, Joe J, Washington, McGinest, and Zastidil, we traded and got a starting Center from Philly to replace a hurt Bentley. We draft Jackson and wimbley, and Add McGinest ans Washington to this defense.

there is no reason this team could not win atleast 7 games....but we won't win another game this year.

Most people i know as Browns fans, were not expecting playoffs this year, we were just expecting improvement, we would have been happy with 7-9..a one game improvement over last year.

It is clear to me, as should be to everyone else that Randy Lerner made a HUGE Mistake making Savage a GM and RAc the HC...both of these guys are in WAY over their heads...putting their faith in Noodle arm Frye, and Phil Savage's Free Agent Aquisitions have left alot to be desired...the guy made some serios mistakes in FA....we could have went after a couple of "younger" players in Fa to help our D...we could have took Ngata in the draft instead of handing him to Baltimore....we shopuld have never signed Washington...we should have signed another DE, and Drafted Ngata....

Im not saying Wimbley is a bad player, the kid is a good player...but why would you draft a LB that high.,..he was a De in college, but we had plans for him at LB...the Steelers got joey Porter in like the 4th or 5th rd, the Patriots got Bruschi late, the list goes on and on....why use a 1st rd pick on a pass rusher?

i belive if you build a good solid quality DL then you can make pass rushers...Jamir miller never had more then 4 sacks in a season until 2001...Davis Had Brown and Warren and built a decent DL..and Jamir miller was then able to rush the passer......it goes hand in hand...your back 7 is only as good as your DL, and your DL is only as good as your LB......Brown, Warren, Myers, Ekuban, and Lang were NEVER the problem in Cleveland...the problem was our LB...say what you want about Denver..but Dever's DL makes Denvers back 7 look good...all Denver's DL does is tie up blockers, and they doo that we,l, their LB roam around "Unblocked" to the ball carrier...Denver's LB were better then ours, we had garbage LB that why the system Patterson is running in Denver would not work here, but does there...they have LB..we didn't..plain and simple

Savage Getting rid of Warren, and our Old DL set this Franchise back atleast 3 years by itself...Warren was far from a bust, Warren was doing his job of what Campo's scheme asked him to do..that was just tie up guys and let the LB amkes plays, but our LB were horrid thus the system would not work...football is a team sport, everyone has to do their job in order to make it work.

Look Romeo Crennell and Phil Savage have made some very questionable decisions with this football team, investing Money in old washed up veterans, giving the Ravens the player they wanted, getting rid of Warren and others, and letting Antonio Bryant(only our 3rd or 4th 1,000 yard receiver in history) leave when the kid "wanted" to stay here, but Rac and Savage shunned him..they rewarded his good year by shunning him.

We need to get Rid of RAC and Savage soon, players "do not want to play here"..Braylon Edwards wants out...because he is tired of Losing, Winslow may follow soon if we don't do something, 1st rd picks are not gonna want to play here, FA are not gonna want to come here simply because we ruin everything we get

Sticking with RAc at this point is a bad decision,. Savage and RAC are not getting it done...1-9 in the AFC north since they took over..that is pathetic...Butch Davis went .500 inside this division in his 1st 2 years, and it was no cupcake division back then either, the Ravens were tough, the Steelers were the #1 seeded team in the AFC a few times...yet Davis went .500 in his own division with players Savage and RAc said sucked

now i want you to think about that...this is what RAc and Savage wanted...and they can only win 1 friggin division game in 2 years? that is totally and completly unacceptable...it's unacceptable..no more excuses they guys are not getting the job done

the team is getting fed up with RAc taking shots at the coachinhg staff in the media...RAc has lost the team, his tenure here is over, and Lerner needs to can Phil Savage right along with him, or demote Savage back down to Head of Player Personell, and Bring Scott Pioli, or Tom Donahoe or someone who has been a sucessfull GM before here to run the show that understands how to properly fix a team.

we also need to hire a Bona fide Proven NFL Head coach...Bill cowher will probably be availabe..how bout Jim Mora...he was good... Dan Reeves is intrested in coaching..i think Holmgren's contract is up soon....

but we need something

this curent stafff is almost worse then Butch..least butch won in his 1st 2 years here...all RAc and Savage have done is lose.....and lose Big time

why stick with something when it's clear it is not working...obviously Rac and Savage are not showing any progress..the team is regressing, they put all their faith in a 3rd rd QBm from Akron that has people in league circles laughing at the Browns....they should have to pay for their mistake..by firing them

Randy Lerner needs to hire a Football Executive...someone to be President of the Club that will handle the Business aspect and Be Phil Savage's boss that will decide when and if to fire someone....that can be knowledgeable enough to understand when things aren't working, anf giving a fair shot

if i was that Executive..this team has shown no progress, and no improvement, i would probably tell Savage were gonna Can Crennell..but im gonna give you 1 more chance to pick a new HC, and if it does working this time and i see no progress, then your fired...which is how it should be, but i still see Savage failing here as a GM

Somebody needs to write Randy Lerner a letter, explaing to him that RAc and SAvage are twisting his arm, and the team is not making progress like it should have and the reasons are directly attributed to bad personal decisions by these 2 men.

as long as we stay with these 2 guys, the Browns will continue to lose, mark my words.

You want Lord Voldemort to QB the Browns.... <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> For those who don't read the Harry Potter books or watch the movies, Lord Voldemort's nickname is "He who must not be named"

Hey Knight, Wimbley and Jackson are rookies, you can't expect rookies to play like perinial pro bowlers right out of college. Also Frye is not much more than a rookie himself, so again, you can't expect him to play with the experience of a Favre, Manning, Brady, or any other vet QB.

Ted, Willie, Druzzi was wasted money on old players that are done. The rest of the O Line sucks; Fraley was a decent pick up, but Shaffer has been a bust for the amount of money we paid him. Coleman sucks and Tucker has a mysterious illness. So with train wreck of an O Line you can expect it to be much tougher on an inexperienced QB.

B.E. and K2 just came back from major injuries; K2 has played well but B.E. has not lived up to the No.3 overall pick. I don't think he ever will either. He wasn't/isn't that talented of a WR. JJ was injurd early in the season, Cutt got injured, the RB's have stunk partly because of the awful O Line and they're not very good at picking up the blitz either.

The secondary has been decimated with injuries, we put virtually no pressure on opposing teams QB's, and Mo was running the Offense far longer than he should have been.

So you take all of this into consideration and tell me how we could possibly be any better than we are?

Coach I agree with you, our RB's have been horrible at picking up blocks/blitzes all season. Harrison has been the worst, though he is a rookie and you can expect some mistakes but at some point you think he'd catch on.

What is the reason that we haven't given Dorsey or Anderson a shot, particularly when Charlie was just not getting it done for whatever reason. Sometimes you have games like that but to have all of that money on the sidelines and never put them in a game like this and a season like this is questionable. Maybe coach didn't want to hurt his psych or something. Redskins, Dallas, Tampa, Titans, and now the Broncos are all switching or have switched. Just wondering what we are waiting for particularly in a game like yesterdays.

Your boy Droughns whiffed worse than Harrison on one of the sacks.

Ask Steelers fans, Porter SUCKS. I live in Pittsburgh, he's awful. Bruchi would suck on any other team - would you want Shawn Merriman on Cleveland? He had 10 sacks last year on a great defensive team. Wimbley has 7.5 with 5 games left. Why use a first round pick on a pass rusher? <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> We were last in the NFL in sacks - that's why.


After reading the rest of your post I've come to the conclusion that you are insane. Savage had 1 draft he was fully prepared for - had his full team in place and on the same page for - that was this past draft.

Round 1: Wimbley - 7.5 sacks (Cleveland Browns rookie record) leads team, 6.5 tackles for loss - leads team. Yeah - not worth a #1 pick <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />

Round 2: D'Qwell JAckson - 73 tackles, 2nd on team - 2.5 for loss - 2nd on team. Yep, another horrendous pick <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />

Round 3: Travis Wilson - hampered with a knee and late to camp. 3rd round picks don't always start.

Round 4: Isaac Sowells - G, 4th round picks take time to develop - hampered by ankle injury, Savage stated he would be red-sgirted when he drafted him.

Round 4: Leon Williams - raw talent, played in 5 games - has skill, FAST - can be real useful on pass rush downs.

Round 5: HArrison - seen some playing time, has raw talent - adds depth (what mid-rounds are for)

Round 5 (or 6, forgive me can't recall): Seen playing time, great hands - heir apperant to Terrelle Smith

Round 6:Oshinowho - DT - my guess is he'll be moved to DE - practice squad currently (how many 6th rounders make it in the NFL?)

Round 7: Justin Hamilton - recently injured, kid is special, great pick for 7th rounder - most don't end up on rosters - played in 4 games, has 6 solo tackels total in the 4 games.


So, what is your problem with this draft?

I admit I asked "why no Jerome?" a couple weeks back. Now I KNOW why. <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

Let me say good sir that I agree with almost everything you said. Notice I said almost... just this one thing I don't like seeing at all



I don't know what sounds worse to me honestly. Hank Fraley a started on this O-line next year or serious consideration of moving Bentley to guard. Bentley is a center, period. And what is up with Fraley? Is he REALLY a good player? Maybe I just want more from an offensive line than that.

Whathis name, name is Lawrence (don't ask me to run sweeps or pass) Vickers

You also forgot DeMario Minter a 5th rounder who has been on PUP.

Porter was a 3rd rounder.. pick 73. don't you watch the NFL channel.

I dont understand your comment about Denver (DL/LB) and Wembley... you complement them on their LB's. yet blast the Browns for not taking Ngata (DL) and taking Wembly...

Never let facts get in the way of a good mindless rant.

[color:"white"]Hehe, didn't have you in mind when I made that comment. However, it's said that you had to find out in this manner.

I hope he can return punts. [/color]

[color:"white"]Soup, yeah he did, but Harrison has missed more in two games than Droughns has all year. And THAT'S why Harrison doesn't belong in the game.

Knight:

[color:"white"]

That's your opinion, but I never shared it. I never believed we'd win more games than we did last year. My reasons are many, but I'm not going down that road, suffice it to say there was a very real reason I felt the way I did, and the Homers called it blasphemy, hehehe. What I said was that we could lose as many games as in '05 but actually take steps forward by having the young players develop. From where I'm sitting, I see guys like Bodden, Winslow, Jones, Wimbley, and Jackson making strides. The McGinnests and Washingtons of the world were never meant to be longterm fixes, only shortterm stopgaps. They weren't brought here to make the team a winner now. They were brought here to bridge the gap while draftees developed. My opinion was very much in the minority. I see no reason to change my beliefs now.

How many starting cornerbacks are we marching out there right now? Zero? Have we stopped the run well the last three weeks or not? Savage can take some blame for the line. I've said he blew it with Shaffer. But he did bring a bonifide All-pro to the team in Bentley. He shouldn't get flack because his knee was shattered. He shouldn't get flack because Tucker couldn't keep his [censored] zipped up.

I won't go down this long debate. Savage deserves another year calling the shots before we can say one way or another that he's failed. If nothing else, seeing how Winslow and Jones are developing in their 3rd years should show people the truth of the situation. Afterall, long before the Browns left, the old adage that it takes three years before a draft can be judged held true. Yet we're going to bang on Savage after 28 games. How unfortunate.

The timing of all these terrible posts are obviously purely coincidental with a bad loss. <img src="/images/graemlins/azzangel.gif" alt="" /> Funny that I didn't see a one of these after the Falcons game...........[/color]

Would you like your crow deep fried, broiled, or raw?

What sounds worse is your saying a guy who was an ALL PRO guard, can't play guard <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Josh, LB was a Pro Bowl guard as well as center. He can play either equally well. Fraley has very good technique, veteran leadership, and years ahead of him as a quality starter in the NFL. If you add LB to this line and draft Joe Thomas, who we look like we could be in position to get, and move Schaffer over to RT, and Tucker to RG, you have a very good line if Sowells shows anything at all next year. With one move, you've shored your line up.

That starting 5 would be at the very least above average.

The Browns have made many changes since '99. Is that philosophy working?

The constant changing of the guard has led to the team being consistently bad. We are constantly changing coaches and FO personnel. They, in turn, change the roster. Thus, we are left w/a team that is always lacking in talent.

Let me tell you something..............Diam might be harsh, but if you look beyond his harshness, you will see that his points are very astute and are based on common sense. I understand that he isn't politically correct, like guys like me -LOL- ....but, you would be wise to at least examine his message w/out emotion being a factor.

I was opposed to hiring RAC. I made that statement early and often. However, the guy is here and we need to give him a chance to see his plan through. I have no idea if RAC will ever be a great head coach, but he deserves the time to prove himself.......one way or the other. It's too early to make that determination now.

And as much as I have bad-mouthed Savage, I believe he deserves time to prove himself. We made the choice, now we gotta stick w/it and see if they can get the job done.

Do you guys remember when everyone but me was yelling to fire Butch? Do you remember how you all said that firing Butch would fix things? Do you remember saying that we had talent and all we needed was a new coach? Do you remember you all later saying that Savage had to blow up the roster? LOL Do any of you really think this regime has had a better first two years than Butch had?

Guys.........please learn from history. Making changes is the easy way out. It's the cowards way out. We need to stick the course. I don't know if these guys get it, and I used to take an incredible amount of grief from most of you for criticizing them. However, I think it would be moronic to fire any of them now. Of course, I always say that........and no one listens. <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

You reap what you sow.

Just clicking in here,I have nothing to say on the original theme,but,I would like to clarify something here,blitz pickup.I've only been watching the 1st half of the games,weak stomach,but I've noticed many times the RB's are trying to block the DE,not the blitzer.I would have to say this is by design,albeit a bad one.Maybe some are being too critical of the RB's and thier failure to pickup the blitz,when its the blocking scheme that's at fault.Perhaps someone could verify this for me.I would like to know if I'm really seeing what I'm seeing,or just in a hurry to get out to the barn.

I'll be gentle with since your so sensitive ... *L*

[color:"white"] Do any of you really think this regime has had a better first two years than Butch had?
[/color]

raising hand as high as I can and screaming at the top of my lungs ...
I DO I DO ..

if u wanna chat about it let me know .... I'm always interested in that ..

<img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />


Nothing changes if there's no change... the irony is that for us to change our ways, we have to stop changing things.

It's completely mind blowing to me however that people seriously want us to do another regime change when we're only halfway through our first rebuilding year with the regime we just switched to.... one in which we've already changed our OC. And now folks want us to throw out the what we have and start all over again.... which means all new coaches from top to bottom, which means new systems and new philosophies and everything.


Nothing changes if there's no change.

nope.
Just like you probably don't remember that I didn't like Butch before it was fashionable to not like Butch. The man was a constant liar. He treated his players like children instead of adults (so what if they are just kids). He made decisions based on indegestion. (we'd probably still have AHen if it wasn't for him)
He was bad and had to go. Maybe he'll be fine back at the college level.
Pete Caroll was a bad Patriot's coach...he's fine back in college.

Now, I agree that we cannot keep going back to square one for many of the reasons that you stated. Most importantly the restocking of players starting all over again. Romeo and Savage have had only enough time to start things off...and they've had back luck like Bentley, the CB position and now Tucker. We have to give them more time to prove themselves one way or the other.

Vers,

I understand the rebuilding thing...the young talent thing...the constant change thing...all of it. I am not new to the realm of being a Browns fan.

What I am waiting for is for someone (who disagrees with me) to tell me why RAC should stay...other than for the simple reason of time.

What if I have hit this thing on the head and RAC is simply Botch in a different suit?

Someone...anyone...you, Toad, Diam, Attack,...I don't care who...but someone...tell me why we should keep the guy(s) around for more "time" using some argument other than "more time".

Tell me how great the defense has played and I'll tell you how poor the offense has played. RAC is the HC...not just the DC.

What is it that tells you that RAC is the guy? I have been a fan forever...I have read this board for a very long time (even though I've only been posting for a couple of years)...I am not a guy who is considered to be impatient or unknowing...and I think I am quite reasonable.

What I am waiting for is someone...anyone...to tell me why I am not right. The only arguments I ever hear are: He needs more time...the defense is playing well...etc.

I still say that we have no rudder/compass/direction/fire and little faith from the team. The Steeler game was the make-or-break for RAC, after many games of similar importance...and he coached the game away.

I think he has lost the team.

I'll be there Sunday screaming for the guys to beat the Chiefs...I'll spend the day Sunday and lose the day Monday coming home...again...and hope that I see some reason why this path is a good one. But I will tell you, other than "in the name of more time" I'm afraid that I will see a club in desperate need of another change...and hope against hope that I am wrong.

U say your astute .... then how can the lack of talent/youth just be tottally ignored?? u wanna can the guy without ever giving him a chance to succeed ... thats inteligent?

and u phrase your question in a way that cant be answered (and BTW .. neither Vers nor Toad or myself ever said that he is the guy ... U saying that is just BS) ... what are we suppose to say .. the O's playing good?? that'd be horse crap ... we suppose to say that the D's playing good . HORSECRAP again ...

I mean u wanna base this on the last 2 games .. well Pitt is better than us at ALMOST EVERY POSITION ON THE FIELD ... go ahead ... tell me there not .. i dare U .. *L* .. really ... lets do a quick rundown .

OL - Marvel smith .. Alan Faneca (prolly the best gaurd in the league) .. Jeff Hartings ... hell those 3 alone could prolly do as well as all 5 of ours .. *L* ... and anyoen of them would come over and be the best OL we had on that day ... yet one of them is their third best ...

QB - *LOL* .. not even close ...

RB - do we even need to go there??

WR - hey were actually close to them ... but they do have the best one in Ward ... but this position aint a landslide against us and we actually have TE ...

hmmmmm .... pretty BIG GAP isnt it??

and D aint; much better ... not gonna through it but its OBVIOUS .. and why?? CAUSE ALL OUR TALENT IS YOUNG AND LEARNING ... we do have some talent though .. ITS JUST RAW ..

So instead of blasting RAC for losing the game u should be praising him for keeping us in it ... <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

the fact we were actually winning was AMAZING .... or was that the players and then RAC ruined it for them???

the reason we say RAC deserves more time is because he does ... its just that simple .... nuttin more nuttin less ..