Quote: YT...if Palin felt she had not crossed a line of "common sense" by putting crosshairs over Giffords district...why do you think she took the website down shortly after news broke that Giffords had been shot?
My guess would be it got pulled because somebody in the media made the connection and started publicizing it. But I don't know that for sure.
Quote: It is time to hold those responsible for the words they speak and the actions they take.
They could patrol cyberspace .... and the newspapers and televisions for any metaphors that might be to blame for any crime committed anywhere ..... and, after clearing it with certain people, determine the advertisers guilt, and carry out some sort of judgement against them.
Seriously though, I love how people look at a whacko's actions and try to assign a rational trigger. If such a things was truly responsible, then everyone would respond to it, not just the occasional psycho.
The reason people are identified as psychotic is because there is little or no attachment to the real world. You can try and look for them .... but they are ethereal and fleeting at best. Most of the triggers in the psychotic mind exist inside his/her mind itself.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I am not sure if I had read it earlier in the thread or not...but the Palin Crosshairs thing, the conservative bashing, and the like is still VERY strong....But you all do know that this nut case was extremely liberal in his political leanings right??? I mean every comment from anyone who knew him and described him told of someone who had extreme liberal beliefs...
Now I do agree that the media had feuled vitrol of party vs party, belief structure vs belief structure....they profit off of the sensationalism and our bickering BUT.............WE are still in the drivers seat people.
In anycase This kid was a liberal....if you are a liberal...are you going to be influenced by Sarah Palins website or any other conservative to do their bidding so to speak??? The guy was insane.,...And if this was politically motivated, it wasn't motivated by coservative vs liberal ideals...
In all probability, guy, who admittedly said he felt Giffords was inferior and unintelligent was removing what he felt was a problem with government...and not with Democrat of Republican.
In the end we have a tragic story, of which we will never fully understand....And in the meantime we will have the weak (on all sides of the aisle) try to use this event for political ammunition and politcal gain. Which we have seen plenty of just in this thread and rampant extremes within the media.....
That is not the media's fault....that is our OWN.
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
The Tuscon folks should do what the fine people of Muskogee, Ok did to them when they tried to picket a funeral there, slash the tires of their van. Then no one in town would fix their tires.
Quote: YT...if Palin felt she had not crossed a line of "common sense" by putting crosshairs over Giffords district...why do you think she took the website down shortly after news broke that Giffords had been shot?
Like I said, Giffords was not some mind reader, able to see into the future...Giffords had the "common sense" enough to know that there could be consequences to Palin's actions, putting a gun sight crosshair over the poetical oppositions districts.
Perhaps it was pulled because a pure coincidence happened that a political target on her map was actually shot even though the map didn't shot her, but a crazed person who was upset(even before Palin hit the national spotlight) with Giffords shot her.
You are continuing to try to link this map with the actions of this lunatic to take a political stance to shame the right wing. You are using a tragedy to push your political agenda, just like many other extreme left wingers. Lets not forgot that the Democrats have done the same. I've even seen people defend their use on the map because they use "archery" targets, which is still a dangerous weapon.
Perhaps the map on both accounts were bad ideas, but they are simple metaphors as showing political targets. The keyword is political targets to be taken down via political means and most people grasp the concept of that. We cannot simply go out and start banning metaphors because some nut may have not grasped it correctly. There are plenty of metaphors used out their that are just as bad or worse. This one is getting attention because it is pure chance that a person on the "target" map was shot.
"Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
Quote: How does this group find the money to go around the country protesting? I would think someone is helping finance them since it is such a small group. I also wonder who hires these loons. No way in hell I would give them a job?
These people are sick. Maybe we should get together thousands of people to follow them around when they aren't protesting.
They get their money through lawsuits. They do despicable things to try to outrage people into inflicting harm on them. Then they sue them, the city and any property owner to get the money.
So DO NOT TOUCH them! DO NOT slash their tires(I'm sure someone is watching their vehicles now).
Ideas to counterprotest.
Act as a shield against them.
I've also heard of people setting up donation stands where they collect money to be donated to groups that the WBC object to.... and in the name of the WBC...
"Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
CBS News is out with a new poll today that finds Americans strongly rejecting the notion that the political climate played a role in Saturday's attempted assassination of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords.
Fifty-seven percent of respondents say that the nation's "harsh political tone" didn't have anything to do with the shooting rampage, compared with 32 percent who say it did play a role. Not surprisingly, Republicans are more unified in denying any linkage (a 69 to 19 percent margin), but even a plurality of Democrats -- 49 percent -- agree that there was no connection. Among independents, the spread is 56 to 33.
This is somewhat heartening, given that so many commentators on the left -- including, I must say, some of my colleagues here -- have since Saturday been playing up the extreme rhetoric that Sarah Palin and other Tea Party favorites have spouted these past few years, claiming that it all somehow created a climate conducive to Jared Loughner's shooting rampage.
As I wrote on Sunday night, I find this to be a very slippery argument. We know that no connection between Loughner and Tea Party politics has been established, and what we have learned about him strongly suggests that he lacked a recognizable political identity. He looks to be a deranged young man and it's unclear if he was even aware of the political debate/conversation that the rest of us follow every day. There's just no evidence of any connection between Loughner and Palin, the Tea Party and conservative movement.
* Continue reading
Thus, the "climate of violence" argument feels to me like a backdoor way for some on the left to attach blame to Palin and the Tea Party anyway. I might be more sympathetic to it if someone could explain how, precisely, it worked in this case: What specific evidence is there that the "climate" was relevant to Loughner's thinking? When was the moment that the tone set by Palin and the Tea Party kicked in and turned his obsession with grammar, literacy and "currency" into something lethal? Where's the evidence that he was even aware of the "climate" in the same way that those of us who watch cable news and read blogs all day are? All I've heard so far is evidence-free, non-quantifiable speculation.
Sure, it's easy to go back and pull together a list of every recent pronouncement from Palin and other conservative leaders that involved some kind of reference to guns or revolution or violence. Juxtaposed with coverage of the Giffords tragedy, this certainly looks damning: The same congresswoman whose district Palin's website once framed in cross hairs has now been shot in the head! But there's absolutely no proof that this is anything more than a horrible coincidence. Political scientist Brendan Nyhan put it best on his blog yesterday:
People have been having a hard time holding two ideas in their head at the same time:
1. What Paul Krugman calls "eliminationist rhetoric" is bad.
2. Contrary to his suggestion, there is no evidence that such rhetoric caused Saturday's events. Even if such evidence is later found, it would not justify the evidence-free claims that have been made in the last 48 hours.
If the CBS poll is accurate, most people aren't having trouble making this distinction -- even if plenty of commentators are.
A new forum for culture-war debate: Jared Loughner’s musical taste
By Brett Michael Dykes brett Michael Dykes – Tue Jan 11, 3:38 pm ET
As predictably as the sun's rising and setting, when a young person goes off the rails and commits a horrific act of violence, attention swiftly turns to the type of music he or she was a fan of. While hip-hop and hard rock are the usual suspects, even some country music has drawn flak from culture-war inquisitors.
So it was likely just a matter of time before Tucson shooting suspect Jared Loughner should come in for similar treatment in the wake of last weekend's massacre targeting Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords and killing six bystanders. And sure enough, his musical tastes would appear to give the chattering classes who chatter about such things plenty to chatter about.
In particular, a pounding metal song used as the soundtrack for the lone video Loughner marked as a favorite on YouTube -- one in which an American flag is burned by a hooded man -- contains lyrics that reference bodies hitting a floor. The video for the song itself -- a 2001 release from the band Drowning Pool titled "Bodies" -- features one of the band's members screaming instructions to what appears to be a mental patient housed in an insane asylum.
"You're never sure what caused an individual to commit a specific act," Brad Bushman, a communications and psychology professor at Ohio State University, told the Washington Post's J. Freedom du Lac. "But I've been doing research on violent media for 20 years, and the evidence is that it leads to aggressive behavior. It's not the only factor that leads to violence, but it's one of them."
For a better sense of the song's tone, here's a sampling of its lyrics:
One - Nothing wrong with me Two - Nothing wrong with me Three - Nothing wrong with me Four - Nothing wrong with me
One - Something's got to give Two - Something's got to give Three - Something's got to give now
Let the bodies hit the floor Let the bodies hit the floor Let the bodies hit the floor
I suppose it won't be long until Palin, Rush, Beck, and the republicans are somehow linked to that song..................course, it will be mac that does it.
The guy was/is crazy. Aside from the fact that he went nuts shooting people..........heck, read the stories - even at his community college there were people that thought he was crazy. One girl/lady even sat close to the classroom door so she could escape quicker if he ever did anything.
Yet somehow Palin gets drug into this? Conservatives get drug into this "blame game"?
I will give Mac credit. he hasn't played the blame game. He did mention the Palin map but did not blame Republicans. Has he turned over a new leaf, or just taking a pause from his rants.
Sanders Fundraises Off Arizona Murders 3:20 PM, Jan 11, 2011 • By STEPHEN F. HAYESSingle Page
This afternoon Sanders sent out a fundraising appeal, seeking to raise money to fight Republicans and other “right-wing reactionaries” responsible for the climate that led to the shooting.
He writes:
Given the recent tragedy in Arizona, as well as the start of the new Congress, I wanted to take this opportunity to share a few words with political friends in Vermont and throughout the country. I also want to thank the very many supporters who have begun contributing online to my 2012 reelection campaign at www.bernie.org. There is no question but that the Republican Party, big money corporate interests and right-wing organizations will vigorously oppose me. Your financial support now and in the future is much appreciated.
Sanders lists several events as evidence that right-wing rhetoric led to the attacks, and then continues:
What should be understood is that the violence, and threats of violence against Democrats in Arizona, was not limited to Gabrielle Giffords. Raul Grijalva, an old friend of mine and one of the most progressive members in the House, was forced to close his district office this summer when someone shot a bullet through his office window. Another Democratic elected official in Arizona, recently defeated Congressman Harry Mitchell, suspended town meetings in his district because of the threatening phone calls that he received (Mitchell was also in the cross-hairs on the Palin map). And Judge John Roll, who was shot to death at the Giffords event, had received numerous threatening calls and death threats in 2009.

In light of all of this violence – both actual and threatened – is Arizona a state in which people who are not Republicans are able to participate freely and fully in the democratic process? Have right-wing reactionaries, through threats and acts of violence, intimidated people with different points of view from expressing their political positions?
A staffer in Sanders’ campaign office confirmed that the letter went out today.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
Quote: I noticed that you only mention Palin. Would you please address the following as well? If they are all bad, then you must just hate Palin, not the perceived threats. Otherwise you would have condemned them all with equal fervor.
The Democratic Leadership Council placing bullseyes on targeted Repulican districts (very similar to the Palin graphic.)
The Daily Kos graphic with bullseye targets for Republican congressional districts.
Chris Matthews fantasizing on air about seeing Rush Limbaugh shot in the head?
The Craig Kilborn Show superimposing the words "Snipers Wanted" over the face of President George W. Bush.
Nobel "Peace Prize" winner Betty Williams publicly stating her desire to murder President George W. Bush.
British film makers Gabriel Range and Simon Finch making a 2006 movie fantasizing about assassinating President George W. Bush.
Alec Baldwin urging the murder of Henry Hyde, his family, and ALL Congressional Republicans and their families on national television.....
David Guy McKay and Bradley Neil Crowder, two America-hating left-wing terrorists, were arrested by the FBI after conspiring to firebomb Republicans at the 2008 GOP Convention in Minneapolis, Minnesota. The American Media refused to report the story.
NPR commentator and ABC News reporter Nina Totenberg wishes death by AIDS on Senator Jesse Helms and/or his grandchildren.
Julianne Malveaux publicly wishes death on Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas.
No, I did not mention only Palin, the targeting for removal statement is associated with Jesse Kelly.
You have the Republican/Conservative talking points down well. There are more comments of this nature associated with the right, less we forget comments by Angle, and Bachman. I tried to constrain myself to the politicians of the world, and not the media or celebrities, as going down the path of the right wing media world be too extensive. I need not go there. The revised list ends after the DLC.
The gun metaphors from either side are wrong.
I am going to diverge for a moment, and raise issue with an underlying problem, as I see it.
We are a nation of over three hundred million people that are hamstrung into a left-right divide that is growing wider. Despite geographical and cultural diversity we are forced to place our political beliefs into a simplistic left-right pigeon hole that inappropriate for our circumstances. So I end up in the left cubicle for a variety of reasons, even though there are areas where I strongly believe the right side approach would be more appropriate. So be it.
Our state of politics has the mentality of a toddler, vastly oversimplified where context is lost. Politicians avoid at all cost any appearance of apology for fear that the next election will be lost. Although as individuals they may have differing views, their voting patterns suggest blind loyalty to the party and the corporations, unions and special interests that fund elections, not the people they serve, or what they believe to be right. Voting against the party results in ridicule or loss of campaign funding. We no longer elect politicians, we elect lemmings to a political party.
Politics has evolved into a practice of false ideology, and not of pragrmatism. We are forced to choose between conceptual myths.
Palin is being criticized for the graphic and rhetoric that went along with it. While our history of having members of Congress targeted is sparse, we nonetheless have to deal with the consequences of this shooting in the context and circumstances of its occurrence. I can only hope that it will improve the content of political discussions in the future, but I doubt that it will in today's media environment.
We have to deal with the left-right divide. Years ago (e.g. Vietnam era) we were more concerned with the left. In recent years it has been primarily on the right. We can go through these shootings and other events of the past, and when there was a political component associated with it, the circumstances have been generally associated with far right positions. So I am of the opinion that it is not a topic of equivalency in today's world.
I thought about this earlier today and then I came across this... remember the Ft. Hood shooter? Remember the over-the-top effort from the left to make sure NOBODY jumped to conclusions about the Muslim with ties to extremists and what might have prompted him to start shooting US soldiers?
Quote: Another Democratic elected official in Arizona, recently defeated Congressman Harry Mitchell, suspended town meetings in his district because of the threatening phone calls that he received (Mitchell was also in the cross-hairs on the Palin map).
You mean the same Mitchell (D) that put his Republican opponent in crosshairs in a Television ad?
"Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
Silly thinking on my part maybe but what does the democratic party do with this situation ? The smart move would be to paint the tea party folks as a fringe movement and somehow, no matter how thin the connection, marginalized the movement . Flip side of the argument is how do the republicans do the perceived damage control because let's face it the media has already planted the seed at least that is the feeling I get.
Quote: It is time to hold those responsible for the words they speak and the actions they take.
How?
Quote: Hold bad political actors accountable
I repeat... How?
I know you weren't talking to me, but I'm going to answer anyway.
I think we should hold politicians and talking heads responsible for the things they say and do. You ask how? I say that anyone who goes on TV or on the internet or radio and spews hatred, uses assassinating someone as a metaphor, raping someone as a metaphor, incites violence, advocates bigotry, whatever it may be we deem unacceptable - we don't vote for that person again in the case of a politician, or stop viewing their program in the case of the talking heads. Make them feel it in the elections and the ratings. Let them know this is not ok with us the most effective way we can. They'll either listen or disappear from the mainstream very quickly.
"All I know is, as long as I led the Southeastern Conference in scoring, my grades would be fine." - Charles Barkley
Then you'll be left with a very bland political commentary ... which will lead to disinterest among listeners.
Face it, people want controversy. They want conflict. They want impassioned debate. They want someone who takes strong views, and fights for them. That's what makes for interesting listening.
Let's get rid of all of the violent video games.
Let's get rid of any song with violent or illegal lyrics.
Let's get rid of all literature that "glorifies" violence.
Get rid of all violent TV and movies.
Make a list ... and maybe we can become the old USSR ..... where you are free to express any opinion .... as long as it's the party line .......
People need to be responsible for what they do. Someone could tell me 100 times that they think that a person should be killed, and I'm still not going to go get a gun and kill them. Talking heads, "artists", or movies could call for violence, but I'm not going to take part. Video games could say that it's OK to blow someone's head off after stealing their car .... but that doesn't mean that the incredibly huge majority of people can't draw the line between that and legal behavior.
There comes a time where we have to look at irrational behavior and accept it for just that ... irrational behavior. If one thing didn't trigger the violence, then something else would. You cannot eliminate everything in this world that might, could, and probably has triggered violence at some point, by some person. You would have to eliminate everything.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
A nasty battle between factions of Legislative District 20 Republicans and fears that it could turn violent in the wake of what happened in Tucson on Saturday prompted District Chairman Anthony Miller and several others to resign.
Miller, a 43-year-old Ahwatukee Foothills resident and former campaign worker for U.S. Sen. John McCain, was re-elected to a second one-year term last month. He said constant verbal attacks after that election and Internet blog posts by some local members with Tea Party ties made him worry about his family's safety.
In an e-mail sent a few hours after Saturday's massacre in Tucson that killed six and injured 13, including U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, Miller told state Republican Party Chairman Randy Pullen he was quitting: "Today my wife of 20 yrs ask (sic) me do I think that my PCs (Precinct Committee members) will shoot at our home? So with this being said I am stepping down from LD20GOP Chairman...I will make a full statement on Monday."
Pullen was in Washington, D.C. and not available for comment, an employee in his office said. State party spokesman Matt Roberts said he could not discuss details of the district's disputes but, "Anthony has been a good Republican and was really involved in LD20."
The newly-elected Dist. 20 Republican secretary, Sophia Johnson of Ahwatukee, first vice chairman Roger Dickinson of Tempe and Jeff Kolb, the former district spokesman from Ahwatukee, also quit. "This singular focus on 'getting' Anthony (Miller) was one of the main reasons I chose to resign," Kolb said in an e-mail to another party activist. Kolb confirmed the contents of the e-mail to the Republic.
District 20 includes parts of Chandler, south Tempe and Ahwatukee Foothills. Republican state Rep. Bob Robson of Chandler and Sen. John McComish of Ahwatukee said they had supported Miller as chairman and were sorry to see him go. "It's too bad," McComish said. "He didn't deserve to be hounded out of office."
A longtime Republican activist, McComish said contentious battles for local party leadership posts are nothing new, but this one appears to be more extreme, especially since there are no partisan elections in 2011 and by next year district boundaries will change.
Kolb said the Tea Party and associated conservative groups ran their slate of candidates for seven Dist. 20 leadership positions, winning three -- the treasurer's post and two vice-chairmanships. However, Miller beat challenger Thomas Morrissey for the top post after Sheriff Joe Arpaio made a personal appearance for Morrissey. Phone messages left for Morrissey were not returned.
After the election and around the December holiday season, some of Miller's detractors made an issue of the residency of Dickinson, the first vice-chairman. Dickinson, who did not return phone messages, was a supporter of Miller's and allegedly moved to a different precinct within Dist. 20 last year, making him ineligible for the leadership post. Miller said he told the critics he would handle the matter after the holidays. In the meantime, a series of accusatory e-mails was exchanged among party members. Some blasted Miller's support of McCain, called him a "McCainiac with a penchant for violating the rules" and a "McCain hack."
Members of the Ahwatukee Tea Party group did not respond to e-mails seeking comment.
Miller said when he was a member of McCain's campaign staff last year has been criticized by the more conservative party members who supported Republican opponent J.D. Hayworth. The first and only African-American to hold the party's precinct chairmanship, Miller said he has been called "McCain's boy," and during the campaign saw a critic form his hand in the shape of a gun and point it at him.
"I wasn't going to resign but decided to quit after what happened Saturday," Miller said. "I love the Republican Party but I don't want to take a bullet for anyone."
Quote: Wow, and to think I stuck up for you in this thread, Silly me.
pd...care to explain what is wrong about posting an article that presents a clear picture of that the political climate in Arizona?
This article is not about LW vs RW...
This article is about how extreme the Tea Party has become in Arizona. There are Republicans resigning because they feel they threatened by Tea Party members. One individual said he was not willing to take a bullet for the Republican Party...a bullet not from a LWer, but from a member of the Tea Party.
I would think a normal reaction by Republicans to this article would be...the Republican Party in Arizona needs to step in and maybe tell the Tea Party to tone it down...ya think?
Quote: Wow, and to think I stuck up for you in this thread, Silly me.
He didn't write it P,, he just posted it.. it looks as if he was just commenting on the political climate in Arizona... which, if you believe that article, seems a bit on the scary side. again, if you believe...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
If anyone is to blame here outside of the shooter it's the media. They glorify these types of incidents like this and Columbine. Then you have a depressed psychotic individual that is craving attention. The kid probably thought he would die from some security person, but anyway he is now getting his sick demented attention he was craving.
Sarah Palin's website showing people with cross-hairs on them was a metaphor. Take them down, not as in shoot them but as in politically. She took down the images after the shooting out of respect for the people that lost loved ones. Not that she felt guilty or the images played a role in any way.
This sad demented kid probably would have shot Sarah Palin if she would have been at that shopping center that day. It wasn't politically motivated, it was attention seeking motivated.
I know a lot of tea partiers, they are good people and by no means RW extremists. They are fed up with the state of the government, and they plan to fix things peacefully. I support them in their efforts.
To align all tea partiers with a radical fringe is no different than aligning the shooter (who is a liberal) with all liberals.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
I haven't weighed in on this thread yet mostly due to lack of time, but I have a bit of time this morning due to this lovely snowstorm here in Cleveland.
The Giffords case looks more and more like this kid was mentally deranged. So I'll throw that out, and assume that it is not politically motivated.
But that isn't the only thing that has happened in the last several years. Office windows of members of Congress were shot out following the health care vote. Giffords office was vandalized after the health care vote. Activists posted the address online of a Congressman's brother, and consequently, a propane line was cut at his house. Threatening packages showed up at Congressional offices after the health care vote. Threatening packages continue to show up, including at the Maryland governor's office, and the office of the Dept. of Homeland Security.
Threats may come with the territory in the form of vitriolic phone calls and angry yelling at protests, but these are starting to morph away from just words and are passing into the realm of actual physical violence.
IMO, it's tough not to see the correlation between the intense rhetoric around things like health care and the subsequent violent incidents. As an example, calling the legislation "communist" is willful misrepresentation that has the potential to incite. Entire generations of people in this country have fought and died in the name of containing communism, so tying anything to communism has the potential to be an extreme flash point.
This is no different than characterizing anyone who is for Social Security or Medicare reform as attacking old people; or those who want Medicaid reform as attacking children. Those are disingenuous comments that can evoke pretty strong responses as well.
Some on here have suggested that toning it down would somehow dilute the debate. I think that is a load of crap. Unrepresentative sound bites are not intelligent, meaningful debate. They are nothing more than calculated political tools to evoke an inflamed response from us. While this may score points with the voting base, it does so at the expense of meaningful debate. It doesn't add to it.
I'm not saying we legislate what can and can't be said. Nor am I clearing the perpetrators of violence of blame. All I'm saying is there are many effective ways to make a point without resorting to deliberately misleading, inflammatory sound bites. It's probably hoping for too much, but that's all I ask of what are supposed to be our nation's leaders.
Quote: Let's get rid of all of the violent video games.
Let's get rid of any song with violent or illegal lyrics.
Let's get rid of all literature that "glorifies" violence.
Get rid of all violent TV and movies.
Make a list ... and maybe we can become the old USSR ..... where you are free to express any opinion .... as long as it's the party line .......
Most people can differentiate between the fantasy of video games, movies, music, and TV; and the reality of everyday life. The difference with political rhetoric is that disingenuous political rhetoric makes people fearful that their reality will be upset. That is much more dangerous than a fantasy. It has the potential to make otherwise rational people act irrationally. Take the example of Nazi Germany. Hitler raised the spectre of communists and Jews as responsible for the sorry state of the German economy. People typically thought of as rational were brought into extremely irrational, horrific behavior. I'm not using this example to say that we have a situtation that is nearly this bad, only to highlight that it is not always just irrational people that do irrational things.
The idea that politicians should be more responsible with their words doesn't need to be legislated. Asking the leaders of our nation to tone it down isn't going to lead to party cards or an opening up of gulags. It's not this black and white.
Quote: I know a lot of tea partiers, they are good people and by no means RW extremists. They are fed up with the state of the government, and they plan to fix things peacefully. I support them in their efforts.
To align all tea partiers with a radical fringe is no different than aligning the shooter (who is a liberal) with all liberals.
Jfan...obviously you "are" having trouble with your comprehension today.
WHERE DID I SAY "ALL TEAPARTIERS"?
Try reading my post again...
Quote: squi and jfan...did you even read the article?
If you did, you missed the point...
I will state the point since you don't seem to understand...
The point is, THE POLITICAL CLIMATE IN ARIZONA...how bad is it?
If there are REPUBLICANS that fear for their safety and the safety of their families, how bad is the political climate in Arizona?
It is not Democrats these Republicans fear...is it?
These Republicans are in fear of those on the extreme RW and they specifically named the Tea Party.
If you have Republicans afraid of getting shot at (the "take a bullet" reference) by RW extremists (Tea Party), how bad is the climate in Arizona?
jfan...I don't know how much clearer I make if for you, I'm referring to... "THE POLITICAL CLIMATE IN ARIZONA"....
Do you get it yet?
-A-R-I-Z-O-N-I-A-
jfan...you live in Arizona?
I'm referring to the TEAPARTY IN ARIZONA...
Do you get it yet?
-A-R-I-Z-O-N-I-A-
Do you get it yet?
It is Republicans in ARIZONA who are in fear of being shot by the ULTRA RW TEA PARTIERS IN ARIZONA.
jfan...if your TEA PARTY FRIENDS are not part of the ultra, radical RW TEAPARTIERS IN ARIZONA...then I'm not referring to them.
"If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun." Do you remember the politician that made this incendiary comment?
Rahm Emanuel sent a dead fish to a pollster he didn't like.
How do we know this nut wasn't forced to action by these or the DLC graph, and not Palin?
Simple, because he was a nut. He wasn't influenced by Obama's statement, Emanuel's fish, or Palin's graphic. HE WAS A NUT. There is absolutely no evidence he was aware of any of the above. HE WAS A NUT.
However, there is no shortage of people that want to politicize this tragedy for their own end.
I didn't vote for Palin, and doubt I ever could. I just don't like to see people that "never let a good tragedy go to waste" take advantage of this tragedy.
Charles Krauthammer made the point that metaphors for war abound in politics: battleground states, targeting, even the word "campaign" comes from war. They're just words used in every election cycle, and not a call to actual battle. Unless you're Palin.
For months I've been saying that the answer to our problems isn't at either extreme and I've been duly critizied for it.. Been called a fence rider etc..
Foolishness such as anyone trying to link this incident in Arizona to either party or to politics in general have left me without much hope that we can turn this thing around.
The only people who win in this political climate are those stirring the pot.. Remember the old saying, "follow the money" well, follow the money. Those that are getting rich off of the turmoil we see in politics are the ones to watch out for. Politicians, media types.. doesn't matter which side you come down on,, follow the money.
I can't wait to see what I"m called now
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: I know a lot of tea partiers, they are good people and by no means RW extremists. They are fed up with the state of the government, and they plan to fix things peacefully. I support them in their efforts.
To align all tea partiers with a radical fringe is no different than aligning the shooter (who is a liberal) with all liberals.
Jfan...obviously you "are" having trouble with your comprehension today.
WHERE DID I SAY "ALL TEAPARTIERS"?
Try reading my post again...
Quote: squi and jfan...did you even read the article?
If you did, you missed the point...
I will state the point since you don't seem to understand...
The point is, THE POLITICAL CLIMATE IN ARIZONA...how bad is it?
If there are REPUBLICANS that fear for their safety and the safety of their families, how bad is the political climate in Arizona?
It is not Democrats these Republicans fear...is it?
These Republicans are in fear of those on the extreme RW and they specifically named the Tea Party.
If you have Republicans afraid of getting shot at (the "take a bullet" reference) by RW extremists (Tea Party), how bad is the climate in Arizona?
jfan...I don't know how much clearer I make if for you, I'm referring to... "THE POLITICAL CLIMATE IN ARIZONA"....
Do you get it yet?
-A-R-I-Z-O-N-I-A-
jfan...you live in Arizona?
I'm referring to the TEAPARTY IN ARIZONA...
Do you get it yet?
-A-R-I-Z-O-N-I-A-
Do you get it yet?
It is Republicans in ARIZONA who are in fear of being shot by the ULTRA RW TEA PARTIERS IN ARIZONA.
jfan...if your TEA PARTY FRIENDS are not part of the ultra, radical RW TEAPARTIERS IN ARIZONA...then I'm not referring to them.
DO YOU GET IT NOW?
Do you get it mac? The shooter on Saturday was NOT a member of the teaparty. You are drawing connections where none exist.
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
I read a lot of stuff about this nutjob, and it appears that he has had a long running problem with this particular Congresswoman for some reason.
He has been loud and obnoxious at her street corner things in the past, and has been vile in some of the things he has written to and about her.
For whatever reason, something in his mind became so personal with her that he went completely off the deep end and shot all of those people while trying to get her.
It's not rational. People kill me (only literally, I hope) when they try to assign a political angle to this shooting. There is none. For all we know, the woman could remind him of a 3rd grade teacher he had a crush on, who told him that she was flattered, but already married. Then, after months and months of seeing her on TV and in person, he created some sort of association in his mond that made him snap. I'm not saying that this is the case, but it's as reasonable as any other theory out there. Obviously the guy had some sort of hateful infatuation with her for some reason.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
ok mac, since you were trying to divert and disillusion by making this incredibly narrow saying only people with AZ TP friends can reply. Oh wait, I have friends who align themselves with the TP. And hey, one of those friends lives in Chandler just 2 miles from Ahwatukee. Cmon now, they aren't ultra-radical except in your mind.
Let's dissect the article for the parts where they accuse things that have actually happened:
Quote: a series of accusatory e-mails was exchanged among party members. Some blasted Miller's support of McCain, called him a "McCainiac with a penchant for violating the rules" and a "McCain hack."
Quote: Miller said he has been called "McCain's boy," and during the campaign saw a critic form his hand in the shape of a gun and point it at him.
So, he was called a variety of names that accused him of being associated wtih and in the same political vein of Sen. McCain. No threats other than one critic pointing his fingers like a gun during the campaign? Does that really count as a threat nowadays?
Quote:
"I wasn't going to resign but decided to quit after what happened Saturday," Miller said. "I love the Republican Party but I don't want to take a bullet for anyone."
Maybe he didn't divulge that there were more credible threats. Maybe he is paranoid and overreacted to the events from Saturday. Or maybe he was just trying to use those events as a political statement and he was going to step down anyway.
But, from what was in the above, if we are calling that 'politically toxic' then we have come a long way as a society because my children can come up with better taunts.
Shooting aside, the Tea Party is the biggest group of idiots ever assembled. Their understanding of the Constitution is laughable. Their logic incomprehensible. Their rationality nonexistent.
The only thing more dangerous than a loaded gun is an empty head.
Quote: So, he was called a variety of names that accused him of being associated wtih and in the same political vein of Sen. McCain. No threats other than one critic pointing his fingers like a gun during the campaign? Does that really count as a threat nowadays?
nolo...depends on the political climate.
The political climate in Arizona sounds bad..real bad... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Miller, a 43-year-old Ahwatukee Foothills resident and former campaign worker for U.S. Sen. John McCain, was re-elected to a second one-year term last month. He said constant verbal attacks after that election and Internet blog posts by some local members with Tea Party ties made him worry about his family's safety." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is a Republican, worried about the safety of his family...fearing the Arizona Tea Party.
Quote: Maybe he didn't divulge that there were more credible threats. Maybe he is paranoid and overreacted to the events from Saturday. Or maybe he was just trying to use those events as a political statement and he was going to step down anyway.
But, from what was in the above, if we are calling that 'politically toxic' then we have come a long way as a society because my children can come up with better taunts.
nolo...yea, maybe he's just paranoid...
What did the GOP Rep's wife ask him? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Today my wife of 20 yrs ask (sic) me do I think that my PCs (Precinct Committee members) will shoot at our home?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I guess the GOP Rep's wife is paranoid too...
...the article also says 3 other Republicans resigned along with Miller...guess they are all paranoid too...
Miller said. "I love the Republican Party but I don't want to take a bullet for anyone."
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