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Mourgrym, I haven't heard that. Isn't access denial rare. Thought most clubs bit the bullet and approved interviews for "promotional" positions above where they were. I can see denying for similar positions elsewhere, but why deny the man? 
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J/C Quote:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/50174-dave-wannstedt-the-worst-coach-ever
If Dave Wannstedt ever finds himself out of coaching, he should consider a job in the home demolition business.
In my era, I have never seen a worse coach. Anywhere he goes, he drives that football team right into the ground.
First, it was the Chicago Bears, next it was the Miami Dolphins, and now it's the Pitt Panthers.
However, prior to his arrival, Pitt had appeared in five straight bowls. Coincidence? I think not.
Everything that Wannstedt touches turns to garbage. He's got the Midas touch of sucking.
Since riding Jimmy Johnson's coat tails, Wannstedt has done nothing but bring pain to his fanbases.
Also take a look at the Yahoo sports page below the MAJORITY of football fans have to say about Wannstedt
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=nfp-20110111_wannstedt_in_demand_in_the_nfl
most of these fans ARE NOT Browns fans and even they are telling you he sucks....this is quite comical folks...i get ripped here for saying he sucks...yet most fans from most other NFL franchises agree with me that he sucks...they have winning teams, we have a losing team...and yet i am ridiculed?
most fans from other teams even think he sucks...why do you people want this guy...good lord...everything this guy touches turns to poop!...think it can't get worse then Mangini 2009? Hire Wannstedt....lol!
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Found this on another site: Quote:
Gerry Dulac of the Pittsburgh Post Gazette reports that Steelers linebackers coach Keith Butler has a clause in his contract that may prevent him from interviewing elsewhere.
Butler had been viewed as a prime candidate for the defensive coordinator job in Arizona, where he would team up with pal Ken Whisenhunt, but it sounds like the Steelers DC "coordinator in waiting" behind Dick LeBeau may not even get a chance to interview.
Source: Profootballtalk on NBCSports.com
He also turned down an offer to be the Dolphins defensive coordinator a few years back. He's set where he is.
Get_Rowdy
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Rowdy Im curious .. is HE turning down the interviews or is the club?
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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Well, the tidbit I quoted suggests he can't interview for other jobs. He's in line for the job, and he has to live that out. I don't know if that clause was present when Miami offered him the job or not. I'd think at 54 years old, he'd like to get going on becoming a coordinator, because he has deserved the shot, but at the same time, he's in a good position with a grade A organization, under strong coaching and ownership. Why rock the boat?
The only problem is who really knows when Dick LeBeau is going to walk away? You could say that he might if the Steelers win again this year, but I'm not convinced.
Get_Rowdy
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From what I understand LeBeau's deal has been up for I think 2 years now and he has just been signing 1 year contracts. I might be wrong on that.
I guess what I was implying is if HE was saying no ... it might be different than if THEY were saying no. Him could go either way ... Them could mean they are getting ready to let LeBeau go soon ... and maybe within this offseason like you say?
But I wonder .. because guys that want to run the show don't sit around and wait forever ... look at Muschamp and Mack Brown at Texas this offseason ..
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
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One disturbing thing I heard was that Wannstedt wants the "assistant head coach" title where ever he winds up ....... and Seeley currently has that title. As far as I know, only 1 assistant coach can have that designation, so if this is true we can either have Seely, or Wannstedt.
I don't want to lose Seely. Hell, I think that we sould have promoted the guy to head coach along with a couple of extremely strong coordinators.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
....this is quite comical folks...i get ripped here for saying he sucks...yet most fans from most other NFL franchises agree with me that he sucks...they have winning teams, we have a losing team...and yet i am ridiculed?
Most fans suck and have no idea what they are talking about. So are you claiming/boasting that you fit into that category?
#gmstrong
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Yeah,, we are gonna have to agree to disagree on Wannestadt.. You are absolutly sure that he's lousy,,
I on the other hand, am not saying he's the answer, I'm merely saying he's not as bad as you make him out to be...
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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If following this team brought me this much angst I'd just move on... Of course now, after saying this, I'm propably not a REAL Browns fan. 
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Quote:
Everything that Wannstedt touches turns to garbage. He's got the Midas touch of sucking.
Walt Harris had a winning percentage of .542 in his years before Wanstedt. Wanstedt had a winning percentage of .521. While that that isn't BCS championship game material, I wouldn't say he turned Pitt football to garbage. Pitt hasn't won a national title since the mid 1970s. I'd hardly blame Wanstedt for all that.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
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I think his biggest mistake was not re-signing Larry Fitzgerald.
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Quote:
Yeah,, we are gonna have to agree to disagree on Wannestadt.. You are absolutly sure that he's lousy,,
I on the other hand, am not saying he's the answer, I'm merely saying he's not as bad as you make him out to be...
This post will sound like I'm attacking you. I am not. I just want to know if you take aa firm stance on any of this. You post a ton so I have not read everything you have to say.
Was firing Mangini right or wrong?
Do you like the new hire?
Do you think any of the candidates are the right fit?
Is going to the 4-3 good or bad in your opinion?
Do you want to go to more of a finesse offense or a smash mouth run oriented offense with vertical passing?
I really want to know what you think...
#gmstrong
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The one clear positive if we hire Dave Wanstedt... The Wanstache 
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Quote:
The one clear positive if we hire Dave Wanstedt...
The Wanstache
Some on here wanted Cowher for our HC....well, Wannstedt looks like Cowher in that picture. Might have to just accept a look-a-like.
Honestly, I'd be excited if we signed him.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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agreed...and KOB.
If you'll notice..Wannstedt has been a HC everywhere hes been since Jimmy Johnson days. He's a horrible head coach, but the guy can get it done as a DC, and all of the teams he's coached have had good defenses.
Wannstedt = good DC, awful awful awful HC...i agree he has taken 3 consecutive teams and destroyed em...but all as HC, hes a good DC
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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I'd love to have that ugly mug patrolling our sidelines...
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Quote:
I'd love to have that ugly mug patrolling our sidelines...
not much different from Ryan IMO .. 
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I've actually answered those but I understand how difficult it is to keep up sometimes,, the sheer volume of posts to this board always makes me wonder how the refs are able to do that.... I'll do my best for ya.
Was firing Mangini right or wrong?
right or wrong isn't really the question. I wanted to retain mangini for another year. I felt as if the team made strides but injuries coupled with a general lack of talent conspired to deflate this season.
Be that as it may, I trust Holmgren and Heckert (mostly Holmgren) so if he thinks that Mangini needed to go, then I'll support that position.
Do you like the new hire?
what choice do I have? I'm not overjoyed about Shumer, mostly because I don't know enough about him. I've looked him up, done a little research, but frankly there is very little to sink ones teeth into. But again, I trust Holmgren so I'll be supportive
Do you think any of the candidates are the right fit?
Not sure if I'm understanding the question. if your asking me if any other HC candidates were a better fit in my opinion, yeah,, Mangini was. But that's not gonna be the case. So I have to move along.
Beyond Mangini, to be honest, I didn't have a horse in the race..
Now if your question was, now that a HC has been hired, do I have a preference for the staff.. here's the answer.
I'm more for Musgrave on O, but I've not made up my mind on D yet. I'm not overwhelmed. Wannstadt has a solid track record as a DC.. not as a HC but then who cares, we aren't hiring him to be a HC.
Is going to the 4-3 good or bad in your opinion?
I don't care really. Both systems are winners when executed well
Do you want to go to more of a finesse offense or a smash mouth run oriented offense with vertical passing?
Labels aside, I love the excitment of a strong passing game that defenses can't readily defeat, but I also like it when I see a small hole open up and a guy scoots through it for a long ground gain. and man, it's fun to see a guy like Hillis run over people. Reminds me of Kevin Mack in a way. Gotta love that.
I'm not certain i've answered your questions well enough, but it's what I have time for at the moment.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Do you want to go to more of a finesse offense or a smash mouth run oriented offense with vertical passing?
I want an offense that scores more than 12 points per game... really don't care how.
yebat' Putin
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All I know is that, over the years, watching football games...
The Browns games always seem different than the other ones. And I don't mean just because I'm rooting for them.
I'll watch a different team play, and I swear it seems like they play on a bigger field than Cleveland does, because everybody just seems to have more room, find wide open spots etc.
And then on Defense, someone catches/runs with the ball, and 3 or 4 people (or one specific person) takes them down.
I've always said, the longer the 3rd down conversion, the easier it is to complete against the Browns.
And I'm not saying it's cause Mangini's team sucked, I'm saying it's been like that for 10 years... I guess it's that "losing" culture everyone talks about.
Hillis is the first Browns RB that when he gets the ball, you just KNOW he's going to get at least 3-4 yards...
But when it comes to the passing game, or playing defense, Cleveland's always seemed to be JV to everyone elses Varsity...
I just want someone that can change that...
jmho
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I would prefer Wannstedt to Jauron simply because of the type of players they prefer.
Jauron likes small, even undersized fast players that run to the ball. Wannstedt likes bigger players who play their responsibilities. I think that a bigger team will hold up better in the AFCN where every team has a hige OL, and big backs are the norm.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
big backs are the norm.
Like 5'8'' 212 pound Ray Rice...
Just joking. I agree that I more physical defense makes more sense in our division. But I also think given the right kind of small, undersized fast players you can win.
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Quote:
Quote:
big backs are the norm.
Like 5'8'' 212 pound Ray Rice...
Just joking. I agree that I more physical defense makes more sense in our division. But I also think given the right kind of small, undersized fast players you can win.
Not compare NFL to College, but Wisconsin vs TCU is the prefect example of this...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
The Browns games always seem different than the other ones. And I don't mean just because I'm rooting for them.
I'll watch a different team play, and I swear it seems like they play on a bigger field than Cleveland does, because everybody just seems to have more room, find wide open spots etc.
I agree 100%. I see other teams run those drag routes where the guy catches the ball and runs for 18 yards before a defender even enters the screen.. we run a drag route and the LB is hanging on the back of the WR and if we complete it, the guy is immediately taken down for a 4 yard gain..
It just always seems like nothing comes easy for the Browns, like they have to work, scratch and claw, for every freakin' yard while other teams just design and run plays once in a while that leave a guy all alone for a big gain, no problem... 
yebat' Putin
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As someone with a little coaching in my past, I will blame this on bad scheming and bad coaching, period.
Even WRs with little speed can be coached to find an open spot in a zone. WRs can also be taught to run routes that can create seperation.
Bad coaching and terrible offensive schemes are what I believe has been the problem with the Browns offense the past few years.
#gmstrong
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With Chud receivers were getting open constantly but DA had a tendency to miss them badly or they made a highlight reel catch.
With Daboll the only time a receiver was open was in warmups.
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Quote:
With Chud receivers were getting open constantly but DA had a tendency to miss them badly or they made a highlight reel catch.
With Daboll the only time a receiver was open was in warmups.
I'm glad I'm not the only one to see this. I stand by my feeling that Daboll learned in NE with different personnel. He came here knowing what they did there, and figured he would do the same. Now many blame our personnel for the bad offense, I can't. Watching the games, I constantly noticed no imagination in the scheme. They never used routes to help the WRs overcome their deficiencies. The same with the RBs. Hillis goes off tackle for 5 yeards, so they run Harrison on the same play. Not only was that not playing to Harrison's strengths, it made the offense predictable.
Daboll, and Mangini to some extent, IMO, had problems identifying the strengths of the players on the roster. They looked at their scheme, and felt that the players we had either performed like they expected, even if it was against their personal strengths, or they rotted on the bench.
Moore is a good example. The guy made plays, but since he didn't fit into their gameday script, he sat on the bench until they were desperate. Then the guy comes in and makes a play, but even after that, they return to their script.
Hillis made play after play, until someone figured out that their "script" was to keep riding him until he dropped. They never tried to mix things up or use a change of pace approach. Even after teams started to stack the box and shut Hillis down, they still tried the same plays over and over, week after week.
I honestly believe that the WRs were set back in their development because of the ineptitude of Daboll. The loss of enthusiasm by Harrison and Davis, IMO, came directly from this philosophy.
Daboll tried to learn how to be an OC while here. I would say he may have learned a little, but he failed this team while here. He just might be a good position coach, but as an OC he need to learn more than a little. People, I believe, just don't get that the plays we ran were designed by him.. If that doesn't explain his shortcomings, I guess nothing will.
Great offensive minds, create great offenses. Daboll is no where near a great Offensive mind. For him to design an offense, was way out of his league. Miami is in for a rude awakening. Didn't anybody notice that the only success he had was using trick plays? He even made the wildcat predictable.
His downfall was not being able to scheme for an opponent. He just seemed to believe that since he drew it up, it would have to work. He couldn't adjust, because he could concieve. You have to have a plan, in case your initial plan failed. He wasn't even sure in his initial plan, how could he possibly figure out what adjustments needed made.
IMO, the games in which he looked competent, were just lucky guesses. That don't cut it in the NFL. For those who use the "execution" excuse, a plan has to be good for the execution of it to succeed. Poor planning= poor results.
#gmstrong
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I still find it amazing how many people blame Daboll for our Wr not being open.
its like people think there is just some "magic scheme" where you take slow bum Wr that would be 3rd or 4ths on other teams depth charters and turn them into Pro Bowlers with some magical scheme.
We ran THE SAME EXACT pass plays Tom Brady and the New England Patriots run....thats what we ran
now why is Tom Brady's guys open and ours are not? Because they have more talent thats why....
you do realize that no matter what scheme you run, your Wr have to win their match ups against the guy covering them to catch the ball...our Wr were not winning their match ups...i mean good lord....
mark my words Brian Daboll will do much better in miami...he actually has talent at WR, RB, and a few other key positions on O
its insane that folks think some "scheme" is suddenly going to make slow bum Wr get open
look at Jerry Rice he "found" ways to get open...he found ways to win his match ups on the field...just like guys like Irvin, Largent and those other guys....as a Wr you have to find a way to get open and win your match up against the guy thats covering you. If you cna't do that i don't care what scheme you run.
Ben Watson was really the only guy we had that won his matchups regularly hence the reason he was thrown to so much, because he was the only guy getting open.
I don't care who you have calling the plays here, until we get more talent at Wr, RB and even Te were not going to have a good O here.
everyone said Bruce Arians sucked as a Offensive Coordinator, I was the only guy on this board back in the day that was ticked off we fired him....He goes to Pittsburgh and wins a Sb and has had a good O there for many years.
Daboll like Arians never had enough talent here to make it work....you can shine a turd with polish and turn it into gold....it doens't work.
if Shurmur has success on O here next year it will be because we added more talent....not because of the scheme.....
Daboll system worked in NE
The Same system is working in KC where they made the playoffs
the same system worked in Ny when Mangini was there to make the playoffs.
the same system worked in Denver with McDaniels until they lost their running game..look at what that system made Orton who had some talent at WR...
its not the scheme Daboll was running its the players....the same can be said for Rob ryan...he had a trash front 7...you can't win with that.
Cam Cameron is running the same O in Baltimore that Chud ran here....chud had talent in 07, in 08 injuries derailed it....you can't polish a turd and turn it into gold...
if Daboll actually had Braylon Edwards and KW2 and Hillis and the O stunk you would have an argument, but the guy had nothing but Hillis and Watson....Moore is just a situational guy...he is still raw...he needed time to develop....thats what Mangini was doing with him....developing him....and it was working...when he got to play he did well...he was molding him into a dustin Keller...he brought Watson in to help tutor him and turn him into a fine TE....
Moore was not ready to play every down yet...but Mangini was preppeing him for it and working with him.
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I loved watching Joe J play but the dude would be lucky to run a 5.1 forty time. Think about how he was able to get open?
How did Hyden always get open when he could be chased down by 350 lb defensive tackles? We used him in chip screens where he would absolutely unload on the DE and slide out into the flat for a screen or he would run a pick for the receiver crossing. These things just didnt magically happen they were practiced.
It was Brian Daboll's job to find ways to get his receivers open.
Harrison was a huge weapon as a receiver so what happened when Daboll took over?
The guy was horrible. He simply did not understand how to play people to their strengths.
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Left this out: Also in Berea, during training camp. Last time some of our routes were run!  
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Quote:
With Chud receivers were getting open constantly but DA had a tendency to miss them badly or they made a highlight reel catch.
With Daboll the only time a receiver was open was in warmups.
Not for nothing, but we ARE talking about a completly different set of receivers here.. could that maybe be part of the reason?
For what it's worth, Chud had K2 and Edwards.. Daboll had MoMass and Robo.
It's interesting to me that the one REAL receiver we had was our TE Watson, and he had a pretty decent year.
Just sayin,,, the players have a little something to do with it, No?
Last edited by Damanshot; 01/20/11 10:44 AM.
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This debate wont be decided until this fall. if i am correct, we will see improvement from everyone. If i am wrong, it will be more of the same.
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Quote:
This debate wont be decided until this fall. if i am correct, we will see improvement from everyone. If i am wrong, it will be more of the same.
You are killing me Mour,,
Yes, we will either see improvement or we won't.. 
Seriously, what's a better set of receivers,, Joe J, K2 and Edwards or MoMass, Robo, Watson and Cribbs.
For all thier faults, and STRICTLY from an ON FIELD perpective, I'd rather have Joe J, K2 and Edwards.
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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Thanks for the response. You answered all my questions.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Posts: 42,850 Likes: 159 |
Quote:
Thanks for the response. You answered all my questions.
I tried...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
This debate wont be decided until this fall. if i am correct, we will see improvement from everyone. If i am wrong, it will be more of the same.
If we have a season this fall...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
jc... Looks like Wannstedt to the Bills link
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,577 Likes: 8
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,577 Likes: 8 |
It's starting to get to the point where I'm disappointed we didn't get guys I didn't want in the first place.
"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college"
GO ROCKETS
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234 |
You took the words right out of my mouth.
I'm thinking more and more every day that Holmgren should have told Shurmur, "we're keeping Ryan and his D. End of story..."
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Dave Wannstedt...
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