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All the article demonstrates is that the front office (H&H) and Mangini were not on the same page. Which is why Mangini is no longer the coach.
I am sure that if you would get the H&H opinion on the offense run by the Browns as well, it would turn your ears red.
Mangini has the propensity to favor players that he knows versus players with talent, or played who need their talent developed. When you play a disiplined scheme, decision making can be favored over some talent. We saw this time and again with the retreaded players that were played by Mangini.
Personally, I am looking forward to the future, Hopefully the harm created by Mangini was not significant and can be addressed in FA and the draft.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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I guess it boils down to who do you trust more ...Mangini or Heckert ...?
It doesn't boil down to that at all. It's not about trust in either one of them. It's revisionist history and none of it matters, the article is merely an excuse for Grossi to smear more B.S. based on his useless POV. Heckert, Holmgren & Mangini made a joint decision at the time, based on the facts of the time. If that was not the case, then Heckert & Homgren relinquished control over the situation... is that what you think really happened? GMAFB
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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It sounds to me like Mangini is just getting thrown under the bus for Heckert's work.
Heckert is the reason we only had 3 CB's.
Heckert is the reason we didn't even think about other WR's until the season was underway. He is the reason that we brought in guys who weren't ready to produce (Mitchell, Norwood, etc...).
Heckert is the one that traded with Minnesota for a defensive player that doesn't fit what we were doing, and then essentially threw it away by not securing the guy beyond last season.... he basically threw Minnesota a draft pick for nothing.
The whole article is the work of Heckert with Heckert coyly playing the blame game and shuffling it all off on the outgoing coach.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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It sounds to me like Mangini is just getting thrown under the bus for Heckert's work.
Heckert is the reason we only had 3 CB's.
Heckert is the reason we didn't even think about other WR's until the season was underway. He is the reason that we brought in guys who weren't ready to produce (Mitchell, Norwood, etc...).
Heckert is the one that traded with Minnesota for a defensive player that doesn't fit what we were doing, and then essentially threw it away by not securing the guy beyond last season.... he basically threw Minnesota a draft pick for nothing.
The whole article is the work of Heckert with Heckert coyly playing the blame game and shuffling it all off on the outgoing coach.
Uh oh.....According to mac, you are now a mangini lover that can't get over his firing, and you are not a true Browns fan.
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Well, it's a darn good thing I've never put an ounce of stock into anything he's ever said, then, isn't it? 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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You overlook the fact that he wanted out because the staff wasn't playing him. A play here and a play there, and you act as if he was supposed to produce like a starter.
You overlook the fact that he did absolutely nothing with every opportunity he got. If he wanted to be a starter, then he should have produced like one. I didn't see Hillis having a problem making the most of his opportunities, that's why he won the starting job. He didn't enter camp getting all the reps, Harrison did. It's just damn convenient no one remembers this.
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He was traded midseason to a team with an effective starter and back-up. You act as if just because they traded for him, he was somehow going to replace the main guy. He replaced a back-up midseason, how much playing time did you expect him to get in a new system on a new team.
Because no one ever comes to a new team in a trade and takes the starter's role or the lion's share of playing time-- oh, wait, Hillis took Harrison's. Never mind. 
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Again, getting one play or two a game, and he's supposed to tear it up. Plus did you see the plays called for him? They put him in bad situations to succeed. As for the fumbles, if I'm not mistaken, Hillis had more than him at that point, his were in preseaon mostly.
I did see the plays. He did nothing. So your answer is, he did nothing with the plays he was given, so they should have given him more plays. Solid logic, by all means. 
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You call him a non-producing player, when the reality is he never got a chance to produce, again how many carries was he given. So let me get this straight, I'm a FA back, am I going to sign with a team who just cut their top back-up, after he came into the season the leading rusher over the last 5 weeks of the previous season... [and so on and so forth]
Harrison entered camp as the unquestioned starter. He did nothing to keep his job. Zero, zilch, nada. He lost his role to another, better back. Then, when given the opportunity to spell the starter, he sucked at that too. And then copped an attitude about it. He wanted out, he got his wish, we lost nothing by getting rid of him, because he offered nothing on the field. No one gives a crap about why Winslow, Edwards or Harrison were traded. It's a business, not everyone fits everywhere. The "peers" understand that.
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And so the conspiracy continues
I didn't say there was a conspiracy, I said Grossi is an a-hole muckraker. It's not exclusively about Mangini. See how much he loves Shurmur and Co. in his articles and on the air when the early losses start rolling in. Then you can dump on him and love the next guy.
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So since this doesn't fit your agenda, it is irrelevent.
Yet another example of someone on this board bandying about the word agenda without actually understanding it's meaning. Here's a little help for you, no charge: Dictionary.com
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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It sounds to me like Mangini is just getting thrown under the bus for Heckert's work.
Heckert is the reason we only had 3 CB's.
Prp...first, you are "wrong", the Browns had more than 3 CBs on the roster.
If you will read the article again, you will see that there is a qualifier that Heckert used when discussing the CBs.
read it again...
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Yeah, I don't see how he could say that a guy was "by far" our best pass rusher, when the guy has 5 sacks in 5 years, and has hardly played.  Maybe he was comparing him just to DEs .... and that might be about the only way that's valid, because our DEs didn't have many sacks at all last year.
Maybe Heckert was being sarcastic because maybe "by far" was a term Mangini used when arguing for Heckert to sign him.
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j/c re: Harrison
Before we talk about Harrison "not taking advantage" of his opportunities, remember that more than half of his called runs this year were with Vickers off the field. That's not really putting him in the best position to succeed.
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It sounds to me like Mangini is just getting thrown under the bus for Heckert's work.
Heckert is the reason we only had 3 CB's.
Prp...first, you are "wrong", the Browns had more than 3 CBs on the roster.
If you will read the article again, you will see that there is a qualifier that Heckert used when discussing the CBs.
read it again...
I don't know why I bother even qualifying your replies with a response, but...
.. if you read it again, you'll see that it is the article saying three CB's.... which is what I was referring to.
Here's some direct quotes from the article to point it out plain as day for ya:
First from the author, setting up the section that discusses it:
"1. Why did the team go so long with only three cornerbacks on the roster?"
Next is from Heckert himself:
"We thought we had three really good corners."
Yup, I totally took that one wrong 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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But it also mentioned Adams although he is a safety/CB. So technically he is a CB. Since you overlooked that bit of specific information you are not only undeniably wrong but also anti-Browns.
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Sadly that is kind of how it read to me. Blameing mangini at this point solves what? Reminded me when Opie said he only drafted them not coached em, throwing sweet Potato under the bus. Heckert and Holmgren jumped on Seneca and Delhomee. They said we did not need veteran wrs. they got Mr./ Glass Tony Pashos and drafted mr. Glass 2 Monterio Hardesty. heckert traded Harrison for the punch drunk Bum Bell leaving Hillis all alone and cutting Davis( why would he not get Hillis any help, why in Gods name would Holmgren agree?) Sounds a lot like Cover your ass. 
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Definitely isn't a 100% happy family is my guess. I think that neither side would admit to what really happened and how much at fault they were for some of the problems (nor would any organization).
I think some of the personnel decisions as they relate to the article are lose - lose by some of the readers ... you could look at it as either Heckert gave too much rope to Mangini to hang himself, or if he wouldn't have made a few moves some people might have said "where is the help that the GM should be bringing in" or if it came out that Mangini wanted a few guys gone and a few others brought in and Heckert did nothing, it would go back to my favorite Parcells line "if you're supposed to cook the dinner, don't you think they would let you shop for the groceries?"
That being said ... I also understand the Holmy and Heckert are the superiors to the Headcoach. Even though it's their job to bring in the right players regardless of what the staff does with them ... I also get the idea that they need to bring in the RIGHT players.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
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Well, hopefully now everyone will be on te same page. It's obvious that there was some degree of friction last year, given the tenor of some of Heckert's comments.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Jayme Mitchell was acquired for a 7th round pick in 2012: how many 7th rounders make NFL rosters anyway?
Harrison: was a 3rd stringer behind Hardesty and Hillis and was prolly not coming back to Cleveland in 2011. Why not get someone that might come back.
Three cornerbacks and two RBs: this did not put the team in a tight spot IRRC.Like Heckert said, no one better than either Bell or Adams was available anyway.
None of these things had any discernable effect on the outcome of the season.
Minutia
I'm more concerned at this point how the defensive front 7 will be constructed out of what appears to be thin air......
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Ocho Cinco wanted a trade, he didn't get one.
Carson Palmer wants to leave Cincy, Some say odds are against it happening, ( but thats talk radio)
It appears from this article, Harrisson wanted out, was unhappy, unmotivated,
So get rid of him, there's no way he can help you now?
What is That? There is no other option to motivate an unhappy, or unmotivated player? That is disturbing.
I like Heckert. I didn't like Mangini as much. I have no idea how this article really sets any light on who was responsible for what the team did, I think it is all just speculation.
After reading two pages of this thread,
I thought things were supposed to be better with the internet, than years before the internet.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Harrison was only going to be happy as the starter .....
YT...so you know Harrison?....
Funny thing about this idea of yours, that Harrison had to start to be happy, not once did I read that as fact or hear Harrison say he had to start to be happy in Cleveland.
YT...you have those quotes, where Harrison says he had to start to be happy in Cleveland?
Harrison obviously had talent..in 2009...862 yds rushing..220 yds via passes..1082 yds was 1/4th of the total offense the Browns accumulated in 2009 and he played behind Jamal Lewis for over half the season.
It just seems that Mangini did not do well handling player/coach situations.
he was traded under the Homie and Heck watch .
it doesn't matter what mangini wanted....those guys hold roster control.
You must not be a fan of the team if you question the move.
 Guess he's not a fan then.
LOL that's classic and he ignored it entirely because he can't debate his own words, now can he? poor ol' Mac painted himself into a corner.
As for the read: I somewhat agree with Purp in that Heckert is conveniently using Mangini as a scapegoat for the moves and/or non-moves......and I wouldn't really expect any less. It's NFL politics at it's best.
As for Harrison: We all know what he did at the end of '09 and most of us know it was because we played suck-ass teams against the run. He never produced prior to that and hasn't produced in his short amount of time since, and will be one of those guys that just disappears out of the league this year or next and no one will care except for the JH pimps on this board.
All of this is just more talking over spilt milk.
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He did the same thing on the Indians thread in the Tailgate Lot. He ignored it after I used his own quote with just the team, owner, manager/coach names changed. It's really quite funny ..... in a pathetic way.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I figured that this article would fit here ... so here it is ... not that it's sunshine and light. http://www.cleveland.com/budshaw/index.ssf/2011/02/cleveland_browns_future_dampen.htmlCleveland Browns' future dampened by NFL's storm clouds -- and a season of transition: Bud Shaw Published: Sunday, February 13, 2011, 11:00 PM Updated: Sunday, February 13, 2011, 11:46 PM By Bud Shaw, The Plain Dealer CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The more you hear Tom Heckert and Mike Holmgren talk, the more you wonder how far behind the curve the Browns really are with a lockout looming. The more you wonder if keeping Eric Mangini for a season was a complete waste of time or just a big one. OK, that's old ground. But as the first major decision of the Holmgren-Heckert regime, it's fair to launch the discussion there and ask what they've done since -- except for their first draft -- that inspires the kind of confidence that soared the day Holmgren joined the organization. The doom and gloom on the labor front adds to the consternation. Instead of one season treading water, we could have a second one where the owners order everybody out of the pool and no one learns to swim The Holmgren Way. But who didn't see a lockout coming? For the sake of financially and spiritually over-invested Browns' fans, the transition from the old coach everyone knew was a philosophical misfit to the new coach nobody heard of does offer some positives. With Holmgren, Heckert and now Pat Shurmur, the coach and front office being on the same page is no longer a concern. Browns' fans hope they're also speed readers. An owners' lockout of players helps nobody. But it's difficult to imagine a lockout hurting a team more than the Browns as they attempt to introduce a new head coach, coaching staff, offensive system, defensive system ... am I missing anything else? To be fair, some redeeming elements littered the 2010 season. Few, though, were specific to having Mangini as head coach instead of Holmgren's and Heckert's hand-picked successor. Heckert proved the good drafts in Philadelphia during his tenure had as much to do with him as they did Eagles' head coach Andy Reid. Holmgren stepped forward in the third round to throw his support behind Colt McCoy, who should go into training camp (if there is one) as the starting quarterback. But there was not nearly enough common ground between a head coach and front office with philosophical differences great and small to expect any real organizational development. How much would Mangini need to win to become the creative, West Coast kind of guy of Holmgren's dreams? Answer: short of going to the playoffs -- which Holmgren and Heckert had to know was next to impossible -- his firing was inevitable. Heckert addressed several issues in Sunday's PD, including the trade of running back Jerome Harrison. The GM said the running back depth was "good for a while" but that "once Eric wanted us to get rid of Jerome, that's when it started [going bad]." So why did they do it? To support their coach? A coach they didn't believe was the right guy? The Browns stockpiled receivers they didn't use. The passing game languished as Holmgren and Heckert had to suspect it might. They acquired Jayme Mitchell from Minnesota as a nickel pass rusher in October. The seventh-round pick they traded isn't the main issue. Despite spending the season on the active roster, Mitchell never playing a down is the point. Even Heckert called that one "bizarre." What an untenable situation all around. Now comes a new season. Or no season. They are betting on harmony trumping Mangini's head coaching experience. And Shurmur's head coaching inexperience. They are betting on the wealth of shared knowledge in the West Coast offense being greater than the sum of Shurmur's two years of play calling. Can it happen? The reputations of Holmgren and Heckert say it can. But the 2010 season is hardly proof of that.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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LOL that's classic and he ignored it entirely because he can't debate his own words, now can he? poor ol' Mac painted himself into a corner.
Sure I can sheppie...Mangini nor Harrison are with the Browns now...it's fair to discus what they did while here...
...if that is the game you and the other boys want to play...criteria.
Browns fans are not what they used to be...for sure!
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Whoooooooooooosh this went right over your head, as usual.
RIF!
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Whoooooooooooosh this went right over your head, as usual.
RIF!
Are you sure it didn't go right through ........?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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j/c re: Harrison
Before we talk about Harrison "not taking advantage" of his opportunities, remember that more than half of his called runs this year were with Vickers off the field. That's not really putting him in the best position to succeed.
cleve...very good point...during Harrison's final 3 games when he busted his tail for Mangini, Vickers was his lead blocker.
It "seems", once Mangini saw Hillis run without a lead blocker, he attempted to use Harrison in the same offensive set, rather than in the set which Harrison ran in when he was most productive.
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You overlook the fact that he did absolutely nothing with every opportunity he got. If he wanted to be a starter, then he should have produced like one. I didn't see Hillis having a problem making the most of his opportunities, that's why he won the starting job. He didn't enter camp getting all the reps, Harrison did. It's just damn convenient no one remembers this.
Nice try re-writing history Cal...but it went down like this:
1) Before his injury Harrison and Hillis were on 50-50
2) after coming back from injury Hillis had a great game but Mangini said pregame he'd need and use both
3) What actually happened was Hillis got all the carries and Davis even got the 2/3 spell carries...and then he inserted Harrison for the kneel down
4) Harrison wanted out
Oh and Jerome is a career 4.8yd/carry RB so if you're trying to make an argument of 2.9 out of a small sample you're being dishonest at best....so you're saying he wasn't good or prepared this season? Well, he had a 6yd AVG in Philly after the trade and a 4.6 for the season combined
You write: "Then, when given the opportunity to spell the starter, he sucked at that too"
He never got a real chance after that....look at the game logs...after the kneel down he was toast and I don't blame him, this was as classless and snake-like I've ever witnessed. Talking him up pregame and then throwing the guy that saved your job under the bus like that inserting him on kneel down formation....very classy message
Mike Bell had 47 carries for 99yds this season btw
The dumbest thing in this trade though was the argument Mangini used: he wanted a RB who was more like Hillis....this guy just didn't understand how to use different styles to beat an opponent...he was a 1 trick pony HC with a marginal trick at that
#gmstrong
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Let me ask you a couple of honest questions ....
Do you consider Harrison to be below average, average, above average, or exceptional as a RB, and why?
Which RB, Harrison or Hillis, would you pick to start for a team in the AFCN?
Personally, I consider Harrison to be on the low side of average. He had a really tremendous game against Kansas City. He had good games (with 30+ carries) against Oakland and Jacksonville.
He did produce when he got 30 or so carries, but that was usually against the dregs of the league. He's been around for 5 years, and went through 2 staffs here ... and he'd be somewhat productive, and then vanish. Then he went to Philly, and did OK. He had a game with an explosive run, and another decent game at the end of the year, but again against bad run defenses.
I ok at him as a guy who can produce, but only in certain situations. He has to be "spotted" as opposed to being an every day/every down back.
Given that Harrison has done very little against the AFCN, and that we face physically tough and fast defenses, I prefer a back like Hillis.
Which do you prefer, and why?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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4. Exactly why did the team trade for Jayme Mitchell, who never played in a 3-4 defense at any level and doesn't have a body that would ever fit in that scheme?
Heckert described this one as "bizarre."
The Browns acquired Mitchell from Minnesota on Oct. 6. The price was a seventh-round pick in the 2012 draft. Mitchell never played a down while on the active roster the rest of the season.
"He was by far our best pass rusher and never got on the field, so I can't answer that one," Heckert said. "Eric watched him [on tape prior to the trade] and Eric liked him. So I don't know what happened after that. He's a nickel pass rusher on third down. We thought he could really rush the passer."
Heckert said that Mitchell could still fill that role for the Browns in their new scheme. But, guess what? Mitchell's contract is up and he can be a free agent.
just clicking...
Maybe someone can explain #4?...the Jayme Mitchell situation which Heckert referred to as "bizarre".
I realize it was only a 7th round pick in 2012...but Mangini and Ryan never used the guy after they got him.
The Browns had him on the roster and he was active for the games, but never played.
There has to be more to this story...if not..I would label this move as "crazy" along with "bizarre".
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I consider Harrison to be a well below AVG starter (a bad inside runner, goes down to easily) but a well above AVG #2 RB/change of pace RB, because he has very good vision and above avg acceleration/quickness...so my answer is: I'd use both with Hillis getting 2/3 to 3/4 of carries (15-22)....but as we've all seen Hillis can't run like that forever, his style needs rest and Harrison (with 8-13 runs/game) would have been a very nice complement to him...but our ex-HC opted for more of the same instead of using the different style appropriately (behind Vickers, more outside/off tackle runs)
He became Philly's backup to a pretty good RB quickly but wasn't good enough to spell here? If you prefer to believe that...go ahead...Harrison is what he is: a pretty good #2 RB....you just have to use his strengths and put him in situations he can succeed...something we simply failed to do THIS season...
and people also forget that Harrison was in EM's doghouse in 09 already...he played a stiff like Jennings over him for weeks. When his bottom was on fire, that's when he pulled out the talent, which was another of his countless spineless moves (selling it as great re-union later, BS...he used him and dumped him as soon as he found Hillis)
The kneel down was the kicker folks...that's when Harrison wanted out....it was a pretty BS move by Mangini
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The kneel down was the kicker folks...that's when Harrison wanted out....it was a pretty BS move by Mangini
Dj...yep, that is a total BS move by Mangini, intended to send a message to Harrison from Mangini.
I look at the Shaun Rogers incident shortly after Mangini was hired and this incident, sending Harrison in for a kneel down, and it's obvious there is another side to Mangini that is much different than the public perception he attempts to present.
It appears that Mangini might have a "vindictive" side toward some players.
I have always wondered what it was that got Mangini fired from the Jets HC job because just missing the playoffs with a 9-7 record is hardly enough, IMO, to fire your HC.
There had to be more...
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And you still can't read. I said "entering camp". He didn't get the job done, he lost his starter role. That's not re-writing history, it's what actually happened, no matter how you, or anyone else tries to justify it, he didn't produce. He didn't produce when he had Vickers on the field, he didn't produce when he didn't, and aside from a short garbage time stint against bottom tier teams, he didn't produce period. If he had produced, and if he hadn't copped an attitude about being benched in favor of someone who did, then he'd still be here, but that wasn't the case, so they traded him. This isn't about Mangini, this was on the player, and everyone involved, (Harrison, Mangini, Heckert & Homgren,) were on the same page when the trade happened. He wanted out, they accommodated him, end of story. Blather all you want about his average, or snake-like moves, it doesn't change the fact that he couldn't or wouldn't get it done on the field, from training camp on.
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So it was Mangini that wanted Harrison traded?
Heckert made the moves Eric wanted, this is good but also bad. Mangini wanted Harrison gone and thats fine but by trading him for Bell, you downgraded the talent level on this team. Mangini wanted Davis gone and thats fine too but again the talent level was downgraded on this team.
I think having andy reid get everything he wanted might have made Heckert more willing to make a bad move to satisfy the coach. Heckert is a very good GM but I didnt like those moves.
Well well wellllll...where's Pit?This article pretty much confirms what I had been telling certain people was happening and they just didn't want to listen..as U can see by TH's responses as to why certain things were happening,it points to Gini.
I see exactly what MH said he would do. He gave the reins to Mangini. That meant he couldn’t give an excuse by not giving him what he wanted or inferring with how he ran things. He promised after he did all of that, Mangini and CO would be evaluated. It wasn’t the pace that Mangini was on that got him fired it was the philosophy clash and decision making that neither MH or Heckert agreed with..
BUT..Was it in the best interest of the team for the FO to simply give Mangini what he wanted and step away? Sure, it's cool that they didn't want to interfere or dictate to him, but on the other hand, the whole reason they were hired was because Mangini faltered badly in 09. If they wanted to see him succeed, and acting as his bosses, which they were, why not offer stronger advice, mentoring, suggestions?
Feels like a year long experiment to prove a theory that predicts poor results. As I said to Pit ,IT WAS A WASTE...dang I knew where this was headed..
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If putting a guy in on a kneeldown play is the worst thing that can happen to him, then I'd say he got off pretty easy.
I would think that he was probably on the "kneeldown team" anyway, because he was the fastest RB we had. If anything happened, he would be more capable of running down the opponent. I doubt it was disrespect. That was probably one of his regular assignments. (If we needed to kneel down at the end of a game)
If that blew the guy up I'd have to tell him to pull off the skirt and panties, check to make sure he still had his junk, put on a jock, be a man and do his job.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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1. So the kneel down was ok with you? Imagine your boss tells you you'll get a raise and then on your next paycheck you actually got less than before or that he'll give you more responsibility for a certain job but you end up doing nothing on it...because that's what actually happened...and not only that, to make things worse your boss mocks you in front of all others (the kneel down)...how'd you feel? and what would you call your boss?
2. What you call "short garbage time stint" was almost 1/3 of his career carries, you do realize that? I don't care who you play, it's the NFL and 5 TDs, over 550yds in 3 games is pretty good against any kind of opponent....it's not his fault he played bad Ds and you can't do much better than that...it's rather telling when someone tries to talk down this kind of perfomance....from 1 of their own players too....pretty sad. Mangini is gone, you were wrong about a lot of stuff, don't make it worse...the Browns are still here, concentrate on that
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If putting a guy in on a kneeldown play is the worst thing that can happen to him, then I'd say he got off pretty easy.
I would think that he was probably on the "kneeldown team" anyway, because he was the fastest RB we had. If anything happened, he would be more capable of running down the opponent. I doubt it was disrespect. That was probably one of his regular assignments. (If we needed to kneel down at the end of a game)
If that blew the guy up I'd have to tell him to pull off the skirt and panties, check to make sure he still had his junk, put on a jock, be a man and do his job.
You doubt it was disrespect? Are you kidding me? He said pregame he'd use both, then he gives Davis even the backup carries? but inserts Harrison on the kneel down? Yeah, all coincidence...that makes the most sense...it's not only the kneel down...it's what he said before that makes it much worse...read 1) of my post above
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As for the read: I somewhat agree with Purp in that Heckert is conveniently using Mangini as a scapegoat for the moves and/or non-moves......and I wouldn't really expect any less. It's NFL politics at it's best.
Certainly a possibility.. no doubt about it, But I wonder if there is another explaination. Perhaps Heckert is fighting the urge to call Mangini a damn Idiot and in the attempt, it comes out more like he's just throwing him under a bus a little.
I supported us retaining Mangini at the end of the season. I still feel as if there was more good than bad, but this article makes it clear that Mangini wasn't on the same page as Heckert and Holmgren.. in that case, there isn't any other answer... he had to go.
Last edited by Damanshot; 02/14/11 10:22 AM.
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Threw out my apology with the FIRING. Felt no need before, less now, Django. And for a seriesz of irrelevancies? Hold your breath. Nothing affirming in a coach being gone. I believe the Walrus gave him a chance, gave him a lot of rope, to see if Mangini would play jump rope or hang himself, left to his own designs. MH did that, handed him his staff for a season, and they stunk it up. I am sorry you see something that reflects positively on you. But the gloat is very thin. Long time no see.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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If putting a guy in on a kneeldown play is the worst thing that can happen to him, then I'd say he got off pretty easy.
I would think that he was probably on the "kneeldown team" anyway, because he was the fastest RB we had. If anything happened, he would be more capable of running down the opponent. I doubt it was disrespect. That was probably one of his regular assignments. (If we needed to kneel down at the end of a game)
If that blew the guy up I'd have to tell him to pull off the skirt and panties, check to make sure he still had his junk, put on a jock, be a man and do his job.
YT...spoken like someone who doesn't have a clue when it comes to playing football....
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Polamalu plays the spot Harrison played on our kneel downs.
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That's because Tomlin is a mad man that hates Polomalu and is trying to humiliate him.  
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So the kneel down was ok with you?
Yes, so stop whining about it.
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What you call "short garbage time stint" was almost 1/3 of his career carries, you do realize that? I don't care who you play, it's the NFL and 5 TDs, over 550yds in 3 games is pretty good against any kind of opponent..
You're wrong. Again. It absolutely matters who you play, and when you play them. I am simply flabbergasted that you haven't figured that out yet. He showed something during the final three games of '09 against no talent teams that didn't care. He won the starting job in '10 because of that, then lost it because he couldn't produce against real defenses. Not even our own. Hardesty and Hillis both beat him out. Then when Hardesty went down, he couldn't or wouldn't produce because he was short on vision and long on attitude.
Believe whatever you want. We've been down this road before, the fact is, your tedious myopic arguments bore me, so I'll be moving on. Have a nice day.
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I'll not waste my time.
Y-Town,you should be ashamed of yourself,inserting the most plausable explanation into a Mangini bashing thread is inexcusable.
Everybody knows that Mangini is such a bad coach that the victory formation is something that's just thrown together on the fly and he picked Harrison because he just didn't like him.
Bizarre?Oh yeah.So far this whole Holmgren/Heckert regime has bordered on the bizarre.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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