I was only able to pay minimal attention the draft last night (cannot stand the new format), but when we traded down I casually remarked to a friend that we'd take 'that nose tackle from Baylor'. Had to skip out and didn't initially see that we'd moved up again, but that we'd snagged him.
Savage was always the type to stay mum on the guys he was going to draft ... Heckert seems to have the opposite, and Mary Kay spent a lot of time talking about Taylor as well.
It seems he tips his hand a bit openly ... not that that's a bad thing at all.
Quote: Cincinnati Bengals - AJ Green Baltimore Ravens - Jimmy Smith Pittsburgh Steelers - Cameron Heyward
Cleveland Browns - Phil Taylor + #59 + #124 + Falcons 2012 RD1 Pick + Falcons 2012 RD4 Pick
Fixed it.
Cleveland Browns - Phil Taylor + #59 -#70 + #124 + Falcons 2012 RD1 Pick + Falcons 2012 RD4 Pick
Fixed it for real... I am still a bit irked about the move.
There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.
Quote: Do you sense that it was really the middle of the defense that allowed those kinds of numbers, or the perimeter ?
Let's be honest, it was a lot of things.. the middle of the defense, the perimeter of the defense and it was also that the offense wasn't generally a big threat so other teams just pounded us and didn't worry most years about us scoring points...
Yes, because statistically teams get dynamic players in the 4th round and lower all the time. You're lucky if there are 3-4 starters drafted in the entire 4th round each year. I have 0 faith we'll be one of those 3/4 to get "lucky". If we are then awesome, but you do not COUNT on it.
It's like we suffered through eating beans and rice instead of steak (trading back and getting Taylor instead of staying at #6) so that we could save up some money. Then we're going to sit down at a roulette table with what we saved. Sure you MIGHT win it big...but is that really how you want to spend all of your hard earned money?
I'd much rather have elite talent from the top of the draft coupled with good, solid, projectable starters from the 2nd and 3rd rounds. We lost on the ability to get the elite talent. We took a reach for a need (albeit a good fit for that need) instead. And in return we didn't even gain any of those valuable 2nd/3rd rounders beyond moving up from #70 to #59. So the cherry on the cake is the 1st rounder NEXT year. A good consolation, I'll agree, but it makes this years draft look like crap.
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
Quote: Lastly, that "throw away 4th" this year will likely land a serviceable DE.
Having a couple extra 4th round picks are also great if you want to package them to trade back up...
Agree, Its what? 9% of 4th or 5th rounders start in the NFL. I hate this draft and am really disapointed in HH and MH. We cut Shuan Rogers and then drafted Shuan Rogers with our 1st & 3rd rounders. We could have a real playmaker for Colt in J Jones and I'll bet we take Bowers in the 2nd if he's still there at 37. The kid is down to bone on bone but the Browns are saying he is fine. Tampa wanted him bad but every time they checked his knee it was still bad. The NFL is shying away from but we will undoubtly draft him and tell us what a steal in the 2nd. .... I see Bowers at 37 and fast WR with good hands that runs excellant routes for the PRACTICE SQUAD.
Quote: (trading back and getting Taylor instead of staying at #6) so that we could save up some money.
I think it had more to do with Stock Piling picks.
Quote: And in return we didn't even gain any of those valuable 2nd/3rd rounders beyond moving up from #70 to #59. So the cherry on the cake is the 1st rounder NEXT year. A good consolation, I'll agree, but it makes this years draft look like crap.
Well everything I've seen says the Browns did good. As far as the draft looking like crap, can we at least finish the draft and let these guys play before we pronounce how bad the draft is? And for that matter you never know what will happen this season coming up, that is if we have one. If ATL has some injuries and loses a bunch of games then maybe we are looking a good pick. You never know.
Quote: We cut Shuan Rogers and then drafted Shuan Rogers with our 1st & 3rd rounders. We could have a real playmaker for Colt in J Jones and I'll bet we take Bowers in the 2nd if he's still there at 37. The kid is down to bone on bone but the Browns are saying he is fine. Tampa wanted him bad but every time they checked his knee it was still bad. The NFL is shying away from but we will undoubtly draft him and tell us what a steal in the 2nd. .... I see Bowers at 37 and fast WR with good hands that runs excellant routes for the PRACTICE SQUAD.
Wow ... every team said that he was fine. The analysts even said when he was falling that the teams in the back end would take him if he got there ... but noone took him. Someone will take a chance.
Concerning Julio? What good would 1 top receiver have done? Was Julio the difference between us going to the superbowl or not? We will be able to draft any wide receiver or playmaker we want next year as well with 2 first rounders, but at least now we can continue building a thing called a defensive line. It doesn't matter how many points we score (or would have with Julio) ... if the other team scores more ... we lose.
And if Taylor is as good as a motivated Rogers, then we have a monster. But the only difference is this monster is about a decade younger and isn't going to retire in a year ...
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
nce Well everything I've seen says the Browns did good. As far as the draft looking like crap, can and loses a bunch of games then maybe we are looking a good pick. You never know.
Yeah, and maybe ATL wins the SB and we have what is like a high 2nd.
nce Well everything I've seen says the Browns did good. As far as the draft looking like crap, can and loses a bunch of games then maybe we are looking a good pick. You never know.
Yeah, and maybe ATL wins the SB and we have what is like a high 2nd.
Maybe they are this years Cowboys and we end up in the top 10
so, it seems you would rather have Julio Jones over:
Phil Taylor #59 (whoever we pick. perhaps Randall Cobb) Atlanta's 1st round next year
(note: this is even appeasing your no 4th round pick rule)
considering that drafting a WR in the top10 rarely changes the fortunes of a team even when that player is successful (Fitz needed Warner for the Cards to get good, Lions are still not good with Calvin, Houston still not good with Andre) and the bust rate on WR high in the draft is higher than most positions. Plus, the bust rate on the 2nd WR drafted in the top10 is even higher (not getting the best WR in the draft and still using top10 pick for it)
2010 no top10 WRs 2009 #10 Michael Crabtree (after Heyward-Bey) 2008 no top10 WRs 2007 #9 Ted Ginn Jr. (after Calvin Johnson) 2006 no top10 WRs 2005 #7 Troy Williamson (after Braylon Edwards) 2004 #7 Roy Williams and #9 Reggie Williamas (after Larry Fitzgerald) 2003 #3 Andre Johnson (after Carlos Rogers) 2002 no top10 WRs 2001 #9 Koren Robinson (after David Terrell) 2000 #8 Plaxico Burress and #10 Travis Taylor (after Peter Warrick)
Andre Johnson was the only true hit of the bunch. Plaxico, Roy and Koren all had some moments but ultimately caused alot of grief for their teams. maybe Crabtree will eventually shine as he's still young.
I'll take my chances with Phil Taylor, perhaps Randall Cobb and a pick in the 20s next year in the 1st round. We are finally building a foundation for a winning team here.
nce Well everything I've seen says the Browns did good. As far as the draft looking like crap, can and loses a bunch of games then maybe we are looking a good pick. You never know.
Yeah, and maybe ATL wins the SB and we have what is like a high 2nd.
Maybe they are this years Cowboys and we end up in the top 10
wouldn't that be sweet..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: And if Taylor is as good as a motivated Rogers
Nobody is as good as a motivated Shaun Rogers. At least not the version you're thinking of. Not Ngata, not Wilfork. The healthy version of Shaun Rogers from 3-4 years ago (if motivated) would be the best DT in the league.
Quote: perhaps it is that we could finally answer our RT question? that's what GB did with the 32nd pick in this draft after all.
I'm 100% cool with that.
I've never seen any injured player climb boards faster than Julio Jones....ever! I mean the guy is fast, but wow! Once everyone found out he had ran a sub 4.4 with a fractured foot, forget about his hands and ability to get separation, all of a sudden he's an elite prospect. I'm very glad we passed.
I look at the Falcons like this. They are in a division with the Saints who are fresh off a Superbowl a couple of years ago and got much better in this draft. There is a good chance NO wins the division. They then would be in a fight to make the playoffs as a wild card. I think they would but if they don't go far in the playoffs or by chance not even get in this could be a great trade for us.
Quote: 2003 #3 Andre Johnson (after Carlos Rogers)
When did Charles Rogers take on a new hispanic version of his name?
Anyway, the more I read about the pick (from our own interviews), the more comfortable I am with the pick. People say Taylor was a reach, yet he was the BPA on the Browns draft board at that time.
Sure I read what all the draft sites say about people, but in the end; Heckert makes how many million dollars a year, paid by NFL TEAMS. Most of these draft site guys have never even been scouts.
Shurmur said the coaches were ecstatic to get Phil Taylor. He said he was the BPA on our draft board, and that he was one of their targets and they were nervous someone was going to take him.
So if this is the case, then it's a fine pick. Heckert was smart enough to pick Joe Haden last year, so the guy he's picking this year should be fine too. We could have gotten Costanzo or Carimi, so I'm guessing they have a lot of faith in Phil Taylor.
So now we're in the 2nd round, let's get the next best player for the Browns.
Cincinnati Bengals - AJ Green Baltimore Ravens - Jimmy Smith Pittsburgh Steelers - Cameron Heyward
Cleveland Browns - Phil Taylor
You tell me how we're doing against the division.
Quote: Considering two of those teams already had a Taylor, they can take the other players.
So what you're saying is those teams already have good talent, so they can just draft BPA and get even MORE good talent while our talent sucks so we are forced to draft less-talented players because we have more needs? Sound philosophy if that's what our FO is thinking
Quote: I'd say Taylor is more talented than Heyward though.
I had Heyward at #24 and Taylor at #35 so they are in the ballpark but I'd argue that Heyward is the slightly better player and will be the better pro ESPECIALLY in that Pittsburgh D. Not to mention I had Cam Jordan ranked #13 and he was sitting there ripe for the picking and we passed...by choice.
Quote: And who the hell is throwing the ball to Green?
Carson Palmer, Ryan Mallett, Colin Kaepernick, Andy Dalton. Pick one. $20 says Cincy goes QB with their first pick tonight. The goal of the draft IMO is to acquire the most talent. You get enough talent, regardless of scheme or fit or need, you'll have a good team (note I said good not great...great comes when you have both talent AND scheme/fit). AJ Green is an elite talent, period. Sure the Bungles might have some QB issues that hold them back from winning a bunch of games next year but their team talent level just went up a ton. Ours went up some, considering we have...well nobody other than Rubin to play DLine, but Taylor is far from an elite talent. I hope (and think) he'll be a solid 3 down run stuffer. It's a good thing to have and why I keep saying I don't hate the selection, but rather I hate what we COULD have had instead.
While we're at it, who the heck is going to throw the ball to any WR on OUR team? Charlie Frye McCoy? I'll believe he's for real when I see it...and I haven't yet.
Once Green and Peterson were off the board I was honestly fine trading back. I wasn't happy that it was SO FAR back. We essentially punted our 1st round. Knowing that, I wanted ATL's 1st, 2nd and 3rd this year and 1st/3rd next year at a minimum. We got their 1st/2nd/4th and 1st/4th so not as much as I wanted but probably the best offer we were going to get. I'm fine with that. What I'm NOT fine with was going with the idea of stock-piling solid 2nd/3rd round picks (no the 4th round picks aren't solid) and then an hour later getting rid of said picks to negate all that advantage you just gained to move UP....for Phil Taylor. Then why move back in the first place if you're just going to trade away your extra picks?
Moving up for a top talent like Cam Jordan? OK. Phil Taylor, not a chance. So big picture we effed this up royally.
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
Quote: Shurmur said the coaches were ecstatic to get Phil Taylor. He said he was the BPA on our draft board, and that he was one of their targets and they were nervous someone was going to take him.
Do you honestly think anyone would say anything else? Are they going to say "man we really wanted AJ Green or Patrick Peterson, but once they were gone we were screwed so we traded down out of necessity. Taylor's alright but he's not who we really wanted or envisioned coming out of the first round with."
Of course not! They will spin, spin, spin till the world ends so fans like us will read their comments and say "ohhh ok he's the guy they wanted all along! Well then it makes perfect sense now!".
Yeah right.
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
I preferred Cam Jordan as well, but as others have noted, Jordan does not fit our 4-3 scheme as it requires fast DEs. to be fair, until we picked Jordan, we couldn't have been sure which 4-3 scheme we were going for.
Also, I have always been a believer in building a team inside-out. So, if we had Jordan and Taylor at the same rating, then Taylor was the proper pick (being that he is on the inside and we have needs at both spots).
Quote: So what you're saying is those teams already have good talent, so they can just draft BPA and get even MORE good talent while our talent sucks so we are forced to draft less-talented players because we have more needs? Sound philosophy if that's what our FO is thinking
I'm saying that if those teams didn't have a great NT already, they would have drafted Taylor in a second to stop the run.
1. apparently we have been talking with ATL for 2 weeks on this trade (both sides have confirmed that in interviews). so, we likely did think that if Peterson, Dareus and Green were gone that Taylor was the pick.
2. you mentioned that we have more holes, so that means we need to draft lesser players to fill 'needs'. I disagree. I think it means that we can feel free to draft BPA based on our board because the odds are that whatever position that player plays is a need. Whereas many 'better' teams end up reaching because they have a particular need.
Quote: Shurmur said the coaches were ecstatic to get Phil Taylor. He said he was the BPA on our draft board, and that he was one of their targets and they were nervous someone was going to take him.
Do you honestly think anyone would say anything else? Are they going to say "man we really wanted AJ Green or Patrick Peterson, but once they were gone we were screwed so we traded down out of necessity. Taylor's alright but he's not who we really wanted or envisioned coming out of the first round with."
Of course not! They will spin, spin, spin till the world ends so fans like us will read their comments and say "ohhh ok he's the guy they wanted all along! Well then it makes perfect sense now!".
Yeah right.
So they make the trade, take someone they dont like and then spin it to make themselves look good!
Quote: The league HAS to take the franchise awle by manyay from Al Davis....Belicheck has a built in advantage trading with them every year
Won't happen, heck I don't even see a legitimate reason too do so, it's his team, picks, money, etc... It does take two to pull the trigger and though his methods are odd, Al Davis doesn't need the league to intervene unless they do find out there is some "illegal activity" going on, which I easily assume their are none, because no complaints have been made from anyone other then a few NFL fans so if he makes a bad trade it happens. Does the Atlanta owner need to sell or need the league to intervene with the team as well since they made a move which is considered terrible by many with the trade for our pick? Nah he's fine just like Al Davis. Get a grip my friend reading your posts tonight sounds like the draft is about you being right LOL, it's a guessing game by us common folks.
Not to mention that they had a better record than we did last year.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Nice article by a Seattle blogger about Phil Taylor: LINK
Phil Taylor (DT, Baylor) vs Oklahoma This is the tape many of you have been waiting for. Thank you once again to the irreplaceable Aaron Aloysius for delivering.
I’ve mocked Phil Taylor to the Seahawks in my last two projections. Let’s look at the footage and see what he offers.
This is tape from Baylor vs Oklahoma and includes every snap directly involving Taylor – positive or negative.
The first thing that really stands out is how well Taylor carries his 337lbs frame. He doesn’t look sloppy at that weight – he’s a pretty compact build. The comparisons to B.J. Raji are legit in that both have unnatural movement for a prospect carrying that size. The key difference between the pair, however, is that Raji is a much more flaccid body type.
That could be crucial if you’re considering endurance as a determining factor on whether this is a logical option for Seattle. A lot of people argue against selecting a prospect in round one who can only play 25-30 downs per game.
You can see Taylor’s mobility clearly in this video. At 0:21 you see a play where the ball is dumped off to the running back in the backfield. Taylor tracks the play and pursues the ball carrier, eventually making the tackle for a loss. There are guys 40-50lbs lighter who don’t move like that who are currently starting in the NFL.
Perhaps the best play in the entire video comes at the 1:32 mark. Landry Jones calls a play action boot leg to the right. Taylor disengages from his block and sprints to the left hand side. Jones can’t see a viable passing option so pumps perhaps with the intention of selling out a scramble. He initially ducks to run, but senses Taylor’s presence and ducks out of bounds for no gain.
Elite mobility for 337lbs.
The next play on the tape shows the main issue I have with Taylor – leverage. When he gets low and uses proper hand technique he’s nearly unblockable. When he goes high he’s easily washed out – and it’s the guard shifting his frame out of the way which leads to the rushing score. It’s a technique problem he really has to work on.
Even so, we see at the 0:55 mark the benefit of having that big force up the middle on run plays. Taylor takes up two blocks (center and right guard) and still manages to wrestle free and tackle the running back for only a short gain. His ability to carry two blockers is again flashed on 1:21 and when stuffing the run on 1:42, 2:47 and 3:20.
This is crucial in Seattle’s current defensive scheme. You want the LEO to find one-on-one battles with the offensive tackle and that means persistent pressure up the middle on passing downs. If one guy is able to take up two blocks, it’s going to create opportunities not just for the LEO but also the three technique.
The play at 2:07 excites me from a Seahawks perspective. Taylor lines up slightly exaggerated to the left and ends up rushing the passer from the outside. He beats his man for speed and forces the QB out of the pocket. The end result is a broken play and Jones throws the ball out of bounds.
Why is that exciting? It’s further evidence that this guy can play the 5-technique (or Red Bryant role). If he can show speed like that off the edge and provide excellent run support, it means he can absolutely play the two most important positions on Seattle’s defensive line (5-tech and nose tackle). At the five he has the size of Bryant but could be an upgrade as a rusher. As a nose tackle he carries blocks and eats up space. Realistically you could start or spell him as a rookie for either of Seattle’s current starters – Bryant or Colin Cole.
The pass rushing skills flashed at 2:27 also make me wonder if the guy can play some snaps at the three-technique. He swats the left guard away with an incredible punch and flies into the backfield. Jones senses the pressure and just gets an incomplete pass away before Taylor makes a crushing tackle.
Both announcers over react by saying it’d be a penalty in the NFL – Jones isn’t driven into the ground. The combination of powerful right hook and explosive speed stand out in a big way.
His penetration skills are further emphasised when he breaks through the LT and LG to block a pass on 3:32.
It’s only one game’s evidence and I would rather do full game research on at least 2-3 times before coming to a respectable conclusion. However, the skills flashed on this tape scream top-20 talent.
Obviously there are some background issues. Taylor was kicked off Penn State’s roster for an ‘off the field’ incident and academic struggles. Will this put off teams? B.J. Raji was similarly held back a year at Boston College for academic reasons and had some other incidents on and off the field - he still went in the top-ten to Green Bay.
Taylor only recorded two sacks in two-years with Baylor. Is this lack of real production a concern? Perhaps – after all Raji had seven sacks in his senior year and nine total in the two seasons before turning pro.
Having said that, I still look at the potential with this prospect and wonder if he’s going to make a big rise up the boards. If the 3-4 teams see him as a defining nose tackle (like Green Bay did with Raji) then he won’t last very long. If teams are not entirely convinced, he will last into the 20′s as Dan Williams did last year (#26, Arizona).
On this evidence there’s no doubt what so ever that Taylor is a first round pick – and he could be a much higher selection than a lot of people are grading at the moment. Time to do more study.
But if he’s available when the Seahawks are on the clock this April he has to be a strong consideration.
I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
If he has plus mobility, then we would have a pair of DT who both have plus mobility. Rubin is excellent in that regard, and chases down everything.
I'm kinda excited to see these guys like up together.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
what getting a fat poorly conditioned DT with weight issues when the team dumped a pro bowl fat poorly conditioned DT with weight issues seems like spinning your wheels, when a fantastic OT Carimi was available. yeah i want to throw up as well.
Guess you didnt see the part where Heckert said he played 70/80 snaps a game compared to Fairley who they kept at 45? People on here spouting off like they know more than the people who watched HOURS of tape it gets old. Just because you were right on a guy who panned out in 1999 or whatever. SOmetimes people amaze me.
Quote: Yes, because statistically teams get dynamic players in the 4th round and lower all the time. You're lucky if there are 3-4 starters drafted in the entire 4th round each year. I have 0 faith we'll be one of those 3/4 to get "lucky". If we are then awesome, but you do not COUNT on it.
It's like we suffered through eating beans and rice instead of steak (trading back and getting Taylor instead of staying at #6) so that we could save up some money. Then we're going to sit down at a roulette table with what we saved. Sure you MIGHT win it big...but is that really how you want to spend all of your hard earned money?
I'd much rather have elite talent from the top of the draft coupled with good, solid, projectable starters from the 2nd and 3rd rounds. We lost on the ability to get the elite talent. We took a reach for a need (albeit a good fit for that need) instead. And in return we didn't even gain any of those valuable 2nd/3rd rounders beyond moving up from #70 to #59. So the cherry on the cake is the 1st rounder NEXT year. A good consolation, I'll agree, but it makes this years draft look like crap.
I remember when the Seahawks got a big bag of nothing from the cowboys, lost of middle picks and marginal players for their top pick, and dallas rode Tony Dorsett to the super Bowl. I would have much rather of had carimi. taylor fills a self created hole of dumping Shaun Rogers. We went sideways at best.
Quote: taylor fills a self created hole of dumping Shaun Rogers. We went sideways at best.
SO what you are saying is that regardless of HOW we got the hole ... it WAS there. In other words ... we could have taken Carimi and potentially had a dominant O-Line ... but we wouldn't have had ***ANYTHING**** outside of Rubin at the D-Tackle spot.
You yourself acknowledged that the hole was there.
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