DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Second Mini Camp underway

The old rules probably don't currently apply due to the CBA circumstances, but in previous years a Rookie wouldn't even be permitted to attend anything except the Rookie MiniCamp until after their school had graduated.

That's true.

It seemed to be (a lot of the time anyway) to be the really serious student types who would miss a minicamp because they still had classes going on. The guys whose senior year class schedules were something like introduction to finger painting, elective phys ed, and music appreciation, "listening course" were always in for the early camps.

The guys finishing up med school pre-req's were the ones late.

Yeah, the "smarter" ones,....don't ever remember that completely killing a dude's career.

More from the Shurmur luncheon. Some we have previously posted but there was some interesting quotes in there.

+++++++++


Shurmur opened with some jokes. "When I walked in the room, it's very obvious there's quite a lot of wisdom here," he said. "And I'm sure if I made myself available, there's probably a lot of free advice." There was also this gem: "We'll win a lot of games if the coach doesn't screw it up," Shurmur said.


He then weighed in on the NFL Draft. "Obviously, we just finished the draft," Shurmur said. "And now they're grading the draft. I think we did great. I don't care what anybody says. But we obviously started off the draft by making a historic trade, probably one of the greatest trades in draft history, when we traded with (the) Atlanta (Falcons) — our sixth pick to get to (No.) 27, eventually up to (No.) 21 — because we felt like we needed help in areas and based on the talent, based on what other teams around us were gonna do and based on what we needed, we felt like that was the perfect thing to do."


Shurmur insisted the coaching staff is keeping busy at the team's headquarters in Berea despite the NFL's lockout. "Behind the scenes, our coaches are putting our systems in place," he said. "We're doing actually things that in some years you don't have time to do because the players aren't around. So we feel like when it's time to be up and running, we'll get the guys in Berea and we'll be off to the races."


With President Mike Holmgren and General Manager Tom Heckert in place, Shurmur said he feels as if he's "one piece to a puzzle that's gonna be great. I can't tell you how long you have to be patient. But I do know this: I've always felt that one of the fatal flaws of an organization is not being on the same page.

And with the years I've worked with Tom Heckert, with my history with Mike Holmgren and with the way that we want to do things and with the way the organization is structured, when I was hired Day One, we were immediately on the same page. So there was no learning curve. We didn't have to get to know each other. We didn't have to decide what practice was gonna look like or what our team was gonna look like. We just got to the business of getting that done."


The first question from the crowd was about how free agency will be affected by the league's labor dispute. "Once we're up and running in free agency, there will be a plan," Shurmur said. "At whatever time they decide we're up and running, then obviously free agency is the first thing that comes to mind.

There will be rules put in place where all 32 teams will be dealing really on a flat playing field. So the one thing that I will say, every team is dealing with the same issues. So we'll be up and running, we'll practice the guys that we have and then we'll get to the business of free agency. We know who we want. We know who we want to go get. We just can't talk about it yet."


A member of the audience asked how long it will take for Shurmur to install his West Coast offense. "We're just reacting to what happens," Shurmur said. "I feel confident that whatever time we have, we'll get it taught. If you haven't followed it or haven't seen the details of it, I feel as though we've hired a tremendous coaching staff. We're doing things to keep ourselves sharp. Our systems that we're teaching are proven.

They've won multiple Super Bowls, so we feel like that whenever we're up and running, when the players are in Berea, then we'll get it done." Someone from the crowd immediately grabbed the microphone and busted Shurmur's chops with this: "That was wonderful coach speak you just gave us. Now tell us the truth." The crowd broke into loud laughter, and Shurmur's face turned bright red.


Does Shurmur expect the Browns' eight 2011 draft selections to make an impact as rookies? "We feel like we've drafted guys that'll have a chance to either come in and compete to start or compete as a role player," Shurmur said. "Football has become very situational, so the 45 guys you dress play. And we feel like the guys that we drafted, assuming they stay healthy through the camps, will have a chance to do that for us."


When asked why he's confident that the Browns could draft only one wide receiver, North Carolina's Greg Little, and still get improved production from the position, Shurmur continued to defend the receivers who will return from last season. "I watched every snap of every game of all of our games a year ago," he said.

"I feel confident that the guys that we have will compete. We have NFL football players. I feel like given the right situation, (if) we put them in the right circumstances, they'll have a chance to compete. I have confidence in him. As a coach, it's very, very important, I think, that you encourage and you empower the players that you have. I think that's the direction that we're gonna go.

Now encouragement comes in a lot of different ways. Some guys don't respond unless they're threatened. Other guys you can whisper to. … But I feel as though we have a talented group on our team, and I feel like we've added a bunch of new talented players. Once we get to the business of free agency and we fill out the rest of our team, I think I'll feel good as we get going."


What should fans expect to see from Shurmur's West Coast offense? "Basically, it is a system of play where it's seen through the eyes of the quarterback," he said. "It's about timing and precision and route running and being accurate as a passer and being able to move your feet and extend plays from the quarterback position.

It's about changing plays when the ones that I call aren't good. And it's also about being physical running the football. Most West Coast offenses that have success also are high up there in terms of rushing stats, so that's what we intend to do."


What is Shurmur's gut feeling about the character and desire of quarterback Colt McCoy? "I think Colt has everything it takes to be a fine player in this league," Shurmur said. "I got to know Colt a year ago when we were deciding to choose a quarterback in St. Louis. I got to know him very well then, so I feel like I started that relationship a year ago.

Obviously, with my brief interaction with him this year, I feel like he's got it. He makes good decisions. He's an accurate thrower. He's mobile. He's got great command of the huddle. He's a leader. He's a guy that I think can be the guy to lead our organization, so I'm looking forward to getting to work with him."


Shurmur was asked if McCoy will primarily make short, 5- to 10-yard passes or deep throws. "I would say a little bit of both," Shurmur said. "I think that's the important thing. From a passing-game standpoint, you want to be efficient and explosive. I think it's important that the thrower throws for over 65 percent — that'll put him here in Canton — as well as try to find ways to get big plays.

We are gonna make an effort to throw the ball. I feel like that is the best way to score points. But keep in mind that we have (running back) Peyton Hillis, and we've got an offensive line that run blocks well, so that's not lost on me, either."

Why are the Browns switching to a 4-3 defense? "Tom Heckert, myself, (defensive coordinator) Dick Jauron, Mike Holmgren, we've always been associated with the 4-3 defense," Shurmur said. "We feel good about drafting toward it. We felt as though the 3-4, this year there was gonna have to be some significant changes personnel wise, and so we felt like this was the right time to (make the change)."


One questioner asked how Josh Cribbs will be used in Shurmur's offense. "He's one of our best players," Shurmur said. "He's a huge part of what we are. He's one of our finer players. He's terrific in the special-teams game as a return, and last year he made some strides as a receiver. It's important that he touches the football, and we're gonna make sure that he does that."


Shurmur drew big laughs after he was asked if he's concerned about some of the Browns' 2011 draft picks surfacing in police blotters? "We did due diligence," Shurmur said. "Now I'm sure there's a few guys in here on police blotters. I'm just guessing. But my point is we did due diligence. Every situation that becomes public has a reason. We checked out every situation thoroughly, and we feel like there's nothing there that's repeatable. We feel like these guys will be good citizens in our town."


Will running back Montario Hardesty be able to recover from his torn left ACL and contribute this season. "When I got the job this year, I came in for my interview (and) he was the first guy I saw," Shurmur said.

"He was in there attacking his rehab, and we know that he's doing the same thing now, even though we can't visit with him (because of the lockout). We feel confident that when it's time to practice, he'll be in there battling for a spot. He's a very, very talented guy, and we feel like he's on track to come back and compete."


USC tight end Jordan Cameron didn't play much or produce a lot in college, so why did the Browns draft him in the fourth round? "You look for a guy that has skills as a receiver and then you train them to block, and I think he's got that," Shurmur said.

"We saw a lot more than people might think. … I watched over 200 plays of him doing different things. So we felt like this guy's got a chance to (develop) into a big-time player, and that's why we drafted him. His ability to run and catch and all of the things that he can do as a receiver, we find it's very rare from a guy of that size."

When the lockout was briefly lifted, was Shurmur able to get his playbook to players? "I did," Shurmur said. "As we know for a couple of days there, there was a time when we could visit with our players. As soon as it was lifted, I had a quick meeting with my staff, and we got to the business of talking to everybody. We called everybody.

The guys that were in town came to the building, and then we were able to get them playbooks. And there was quite a few that did that. So I was impressed by how quickly we reacted, and I think that was good. It was really good. It's fun to talk to them 'cause there was a couple of guys that prior to the lockout that I did not have a chance to visit with much, and that was a great opportunity to get that done. So we took advantage of that for sure."

A few minutes later, Shurmur met with reporters and was asked how many players received playbooks. "A few," he said.
Did only players who came to the team's facility receive playbooks, or were the Browns able to ship some to players who were out of town? "The guys that came in, we gave them some coaching materials," Shurmur said.

Now that the preparation for the draft is finished, what exactly has the coaching staff been doing during the lockout? "Well, we have projects that we're doing," Shurmur said. "We're working on next year's opponents. We're fine-tuning what we're gonna do in our camps. And we're right now going through a week of coaching sessions, where we're coaching one another. … We as a coaches always kind of keep a list of things that I'd like to get done. You never do (in a normal offseason), so we're trying to take advantage to that."

Shurmur was asked how much the Browns improved their 4-3 scheme by spending their top two draft picks on defensive tackle Phil Taylor and defensive end Jabaal Sheard. "When you're drafting, to be able to get a big defensive tackle and then really an explosive defensive end, that makes you better immediately," Shurmur said.

Could starting two rookie defensive linemen be a concern? "I think you put them in there with the rest of the guys, and the best four play," Shurmur said. "And if they can't be a starter, then I think they're an immediate role player. I don't think it's a problem. I think it's like doing anything at any position, so we just get them in there, coach them up (and) let them go."

Shurmur said his wife and children are getting ready to move from the St. Louis area to Northeast Ohio. "Fortunately, we sold our home in St. Louis, so that's the toughest piece," he said.

Why is Shurmur convinced that McCoy can become a good quarterback? "All the things that I've talked about," Shurmur said. "He's a good decision maker. He's a good athlete. He's an accurate thrower. He's got leadership ability, and he went in there last year and played well at times. And I think that's something that you build on. He has all of the skills that you're looking for in a quarterback to play in our system. I'm just excited about that."

In evaluating personnel after the draft, what needs do the Browns still have to address once free agency begins? "Oh, I don't know," Shurmur said. "We have some ideas of where we want to go, and we have to keep those quiet. But we feel good about starting the year with the guys that we have."

web page

Honestly when was the last year the Browns didn't use 3 quarterbacks in major game time needing them to play to win at least one game?
Ok it might have been last year or twice inthe last 3 but I'd bet 6 of the last 10 years the Browns have gone to their 3rd qb for at least one start.

I want Delhomme, and Wallace, and McCoy All to be ready.

So I was watching some U tube highlight of Hardesty, ( it was either game highlights vs NC, or general highlight film)
I don't wanna forget about Hardesty, He looks like a good receiver and a running back but his ability to break tackles didn't look as good as his ability to avoid the tackler with the spin move.

ON the Hardesty Highlight video, bottom of the screen " Texas' Colt McCoy 480 yards vs TCU"

When was the last time we had a 400 yd passer for the Browns?
I know TCU is not the NFL but

considering we have only had 2 QBs throw for 300yds in a game the past 3 seasons, I'm not worried about 400yd passers at the moment. heck, in the glory year of 2007, Anderson only hit 300yds 3 times.

So, how many NFL teams didn't have a 300yd+ passer in 2010?
2 teams.

Cleveland and Tampa Bay



Schaub hit 300+ 7 times in 2010 (1 of them 3 yds from 500)
Peyton hit 300+ 7 times in 2010 (1 of them 400+)
Brees hit 300+ 7 times in 2010
Rivers hit 300+ 6 times (2 of them 400+) in 2010.
Kitna/Romo had 300+ 6 times (1 of them 400+) in 2010
Orton had 300+ 6 times (1 of them 400+) in 2010

some less than stellar names that hit the mark:

Derek Anderson even hit 300+ once last year.
so did Matt Moore
and Fitzpatrick, Henne, Alex Smith and Shaun Hill each hit 300+ twice

Looks as if Little will be at the next camp. His agent brings up a good point that was talked about a little on here.. What if a newly drafted player comes to one of these camps and tears his ACL? The answer appears to be,, Tough, too bad.

Quote:

---

Browns rookie receiver Greg Little missed 'Camp Colt,' might attend next one for off-field activities only
Published: Thursday, May 19, 2011, 9:41 AM Updated: Thursday, May 19, 2011, 11:01 AM
By Mary Kay Cabot, The Plain Dealer The Plain Dealer


.
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Browns rookie receiver Greg Little, their second-round pick from the Atlanta trade, didn't attend "Camp Colt'' last week at Baldwin-Wallace in Berea because of a prior family commitment, his agent told The Plain Dealer today.

"Greg is one of the hardest-working players I've ever been around and he hasn't taken a day off since he was drafted,'' said agent Andy Ross of Octagon. "After not playing for a year, he's very, very hungry to get in there and start working with his teammates.''

Ross said Little felt comfortable making the family commitment last week because under the rules of the old collective bargaining agreement, rookies wouldn't have been permitted to participate in team activities -- except for a minicamp the weekend after the draft -- until after May 16. Those rules were in place because players are still in classes in May.

Ross said that if the Browns players hold another camp -- which have been led by quarterback Colt McCoy -- he and his colleagues will advise Little on how to proceeed. In the absence of a CBA, agents can't sign injury protection agreements with the clubs that would ensure negotiation in good faith in the event of injury. The only rookie to attend last week's camp was USC tight end Jordan Cameron.

An unnamed GM last week told Sports Illustrated he was waiting for the first A.C.L. tear out of one of these camps.

"It's an issue we plan to discuss with Greg when the next opportunity comes,'' Ross said. "We hope to have a labor agreement in place by that time.''

Ross said Little would be interested in attending a players-only camp to study film and work out, but would most likely skip the on-field drills. McCoy has been teaching the fundamentals of the West Coast offense, including showing films of coach Pat Shurmur's offense from last season. The players have also spent time together attending Indians games and other activities.

So far, the details of the next camp haven't been revealed and McCoy likes to keep them quiet.

"Greg is ready to get in there and start building that camaraderie with his teammates,'' said Ross. "He's been talking to the guys on the phone and things like that.''

He said Little -- who sat out all last season at North Carolina after accepting impermissible agent benefits -- has been running hills every day in Portland, Oregon, and that he's also been returned to Athletes Performance Institute in Arizona, where he did his pre-Combine training.

"Greg is in tremendous shape and ready to go,'' said Ross.

Ross said Little and the rest of the rookie skill players are currently in Los Angeles for the rookie premier seminar, which runs through the weekend.

---

Best part of this article is that Colt is reviewing game films of Shurmers offense in action last season with ST. Louis..

He's teaching the offense to the other players...

Folks,, this kid is a winner.. I sure hope he's as capable onfield as he appears to be off field......

Yeah, he's a winner....so was Dorsey

Little took agent money and now sits out this Camp...we finally have an I in team ...somewhat reminds me of a very raw version of BE

so why is Jordan Cameron there Greg? is he dumb?

You only shine as the color orange for the brown around you,...if the other parts aren't there,...like a RT,...for all the good McCoy can bring, it might not be enough.

The converse is,...McCoy's level of play may heighten the level of those around him too. Montana-esque ? remains to be seen.

LOL what do you know, your still ticked off that we didn't draft Gabbert

Quote:

---

What if a newly drafted player comes to one of these camps and tears his ACL? The answer appears to be,, Tough, too bad.

---

In a nutshell...U lose...

Not one drafted player should be anywhere near a field during this...Be there to mix in sure...But no playing...

I agree that he is a winner too. He could do less, and I pray there are no motorcycles beyond this point or other stoopid injuries, but I like what Colt is doing, trying to do, and getting our heads together for football.
Settle up, huddle up, and let's get ready to rumble.

1. So why was Cameron there? Guess he put team/the sport over money...Little has shown before that money was more important to him....that makes it noteworthy imho

2. Watch Little play...guy's a taunting/unsportsmanlike flag machine

even BE didnt have as many red flags as a prospect. Let's all hope he responds to NFL discipline because his "swag" wont fly in the league, simple as that...he better change quick

It's a little harder for a raw 4th round TE to make the team than it is a 2nd rounder. Needs all he can get.

Just my guess.

I am OK, but we really need production out of him. Attitude is OK, but stupid is not acceptable. Talk on the field. We don't need a jaw without hands. He may be part of our answer. All hype until we see him whenever.

I just hope he isn't a Texas putdown: All hat and no cattle. Empty hype until he steps up and produces. I will root for all of them (and the coaches) until I see differently.

It's funny how some who think they know it all are the ones who know the least.

No unsigned/ drafted rook should be out there doing anything until they are under contract.

1. I said it's "noteworthy" because Little has some "history" deciding money over game..his on field act hints that way too....where there's smoke...I don't hate Little nearly as much as I hated the Mangini 2nd rounders...at least Little has talent and a high ceiling...the Mangini bums were much worse picks. As I said, I hope he gets his act together in the pros and responds to the discipline...he's somewhat a boom or bust pick...and I don't like those in round 2. For me? I wouldnt have drafted him in the top 4 rounds, probably at all, simply because I wouldn't trust him to not be "buyable" down the road...and stuff like this DOES happen...be it leaking information or selling a game...not saying all other prospects could not go that route too but a prospect like Little is simply a riskier bet I would not make

2. Still nobody has come up with a good argument why so many rookies ARE in fact in those player only activities around the league...also, I'm pretty sure the team that drafts a prospect, esp. drafting a kid high, is not interested in losing a player (not signing him) if/when he gets injured in 1 of those...he'd still get a slot based contract anyway. Also, the other players he trains with would be POed if he wouldnt get paid...it would turn off the locker room and make a pretty bad, bad PR story "rookie willing to learn gets cold shoulder"..I don't see him NOT getting paid, unless it's career ending and even then he'd get something for sure

and what's the chance of a career ending injury in a no contact walkthrough anyway? As much risk as playing catch with your kid/nephew or crossing the street...and I'm sure they do that too before they sign a contract in any other year

That said...I think Little isn't there because he knows he does not have to be there/ is not getting paid...the injury thing is BS imho. Even if he's too paranaoid..he could be there meeting with the guys (would do so anyway in May OTAs in any other year) and learn the playbook by watching or simply studying it....for me it's pretty clear that he isn't there because he doesn' t have to be...you guys are deluding yourselves here and making up homer excuses

If Little was a Bengal draft pick you'd be all over this one...guaranteed

Quote:

---

for me it's pretty clear that he isn't there because he doesn' t have to be...you guys are deluding yourselves here and making up homer excuses

---

The Plain Dealer

Quote:

---

Browns rookie receiver Greg Little didn't attend "Camp Colt II" last week at Baldwin-Wallace in Berea because of a family commitment, but might participate in off-field activities if there's another one, his agent said.

---

Quote:

---

Ross said that if the Browns players hold another camp during the lockout -- which they have tentative but undisclosed plans to do -- he and his colleagues will probably advise Little not to participate in on-field drills because of the injury risk. Rookies have yet to sign their first contracts and would not be protected in the event of injury.

---

So his agent is advising him not to participate on-field.

Quote:

---

Under terms of the old collective bargaining agreement, rookies would normally sign an injury protection agreement before participating in a minicamp, but such agreements can't be signed during the lockout.

---

Quote:

---

Ross said Little felt comfortable keeping his family commitment last week, because under the rules of the old collective bargaining agreement, rookies wouldn't have been permitted to participate in team activities -- except for a minicamp the weekend after the draft -- until after May 16. Those rules were in place because players are still in classes in May.

---

Quote:

---

"It's the same terminology, the same verbiage, exact same calls, everything," said Little. "I think it's going to be such a smooth transition to where when I met with the Cleveland Browns, I knew a lot of their terminology already. I think that's one of the things that I'm really excited about as well."

---

Detroit Lions quarterback Matthew Stafford tweeted Thursday that he was going to throw with favorite target Calvin Johnson, Detroit's second-round draft pick Titus Young, Philadelphia Eagles receiver Chad Hall, Bengals first-rounder A.J. Green and Seahawks fourth-round pick Kris Durham. Green and and Durham are fellow University of Georgia alums.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81...m-around-league

AJ Green and Titus Young are idiots apparently, the're training even though it's not their QB (AJ Green)...or they have bad agents...or they just haven't pulled a "family commitment" out of their behind and prepare for their 1st job...hmm, what is it?

But...but...they could get injured If that's the case Little's agent(s) should have told him to not attend the combine....because that's what they're doing there too...and he didn't have a contract back then...this is "no pay-no play" all the way with Little, get real folks...it's not alarming...it is what it is, he can still become a great player and I hope he does....it's just another hint of what kind of "swag" Little has

I'm not saying Little is right or wrong. Just pointing out all the facts that we know. I don't want to speculate that the only reason he isn't there is because he's not being compensated.

And maybe Little's agent is the bad one for advising his client to not participate, who knows?

(For the record I think Little should be there working out, but if he really did have a prior family commitment then I understand. And as of right now we know almost nothing about Little, so we have no reason to not believe him.)

The thing that bothers me about Little is this ......

The language and the offense can be the same as he played in college ...... but he's been away from it for an entire year.

Sorry ... but I don't see him retaining a complete and total grasp on an offense in which he played WR for exactly 1 year before sitting out an entire year because of his own actions.

Man .... I'd be in, trying to prove that I want to be great. I'd be in looking to get every aspect of the offense down that I could. I certainly would not want to fall behind other players. I also would not want to look like the guy who refuses to go the extra mile to be great.

Right now, that's what he looks like. He looks like a guy who expects the NFL to be easy .... and who thinks that he'll be able to be great without putting in the work.

This guy scares the hell out of me more than any of our picks. The more I read about him, and the more he talks, the more scared I get.

Here's a novel idea: why don't we just wait and see how this kid actually works (or doesn't work) once this mess between the players and owners gets resolved to the point where there is some actual football activity to evaluate.

Good grief... the kid hasn't even signed a contract yet. Maybe we can leave the torches unlit and pitchforks stowed for the time-being, eh?

Now, just how is THAT going to be productive and responsible of us, in any way, whatsoever?

We've gotta get judgment passed so that we can debate whether or not it's yet another blown pick!!

Duh... you're right. What was I THINKING.

There is also nothing else to talk about.

People think little is being selfish?

It's not YOUR money that is being risked. If he tears his knee bad enough during one of these camps, the browns could decide not to sign him. From a fans perspective yeah we think our guys should be out working. However that is only for our own interest, because we don't want him to bust.

This is an excuse and an non argument...AJ Green is working out...of all draft prospects he should be the one sitting at home if "injury" was a risk...it isn't, they'll get slot money even if they tear the ACL which is highly unlikely in a walkthrough anyway...what else should the NFL team do? Just punt him? He's theirs anyway and he'll get the money anyway

From everything that we've heard there will be no "slot money" in the new CBA, just a cap on how a player can get.

Last year Sergio Kindle fell down a flight of stairs and got the rookie minimum ($320,000) with no signing bonus. The pick before him (Rob Gronkowski) got a signing bonus of $1.76 million.