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Tyler, I've got to agree with you. I think that we have three SOLID pieces right now, Shaffer, Fraley, and Steinback, and Steinback has the potential to be more than that. Give us at least one more OG on the first day of the draft......and we have a pretty decent improvement in our O-line. Savage realizes how important the O-line is, this is the second year in a row that he has acquired the HIGHEST RATED O-lineman on the wire, it was just a fluke that Bentley got hurt last year. He knew getting Fraley back was almost a must and he did it. I just keep thinking, that I hear so many of the guys on hear saying that they will be sooooo upset if we don't get Thomas, I just don't understand it. Savage will take whomever he feels will help us the most. If that is Thomas great, I trust Phil. If that means Peterson, great, I trust Phil. Vers, EO, and several others are beginning to worry me with the "we have got to get Thomas". EO, has convinced me that Thomas is a QUALITY pick, and I will not be upset AT ALL, if he is our pick. But some of you guys are acting like you will go off the deep end if we don't take your guy. Listen, I know all your reasoning, and it does make sense, and I completely understand you line of thinking. All that said, I STILL LIKE PETERSON. The O-Line is important, hell, I even believe it is key in our success. But you know what? So is the D-Line, and I haven't heard much of ANYTHING from you guys addressing this area, and there ISN"T ANYTHING there that can help us in FA'gency the way that Steinbach has. Vers, EO, Toad, and all of you guys in this same line of thinking, please understand, I am not bashing you........I just don't understand your singlemindedness (I think that's a word  ). Peterson has the POTENTIAL to be a HALL OF FAME RB, Thomas has the POTENTIAL to be a ANCHOR to our line for years. But right now, that's all it is, POTENTIAL. I know I have been away for awhile, I am just a little shocked at the "woe is me" thinking if Thomas is not our guy. Sorry for my rant...but I have been wanting to get that out for awhile now  .
Born and breed with OSU, App. State alumni, but bleed orange and brown.
Go ARMY......Beat Navy!!!!!!
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i'd rather much have this guy.. than clements.. we NEED o-line.. NEED IT!!!
man.. i love this game!
Adrian Peterson is all we need now..
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I get the feeling you like Adrian. If JT's available, I want him first, but it wouldn't kill me if we took Adrian, if he's the game-changing back you and a few others say he is.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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The point it is doesn't matter.
You can't keep drafting lineman early. If you do, you will be forced into paying top dollar for other positions.
it is all about getting the right mix of players on the roster in the 4 year window. You take your best shot, then tear down and try to make another run.
Building teams is a thing of the past. Long term is for losers. There is no long term.
That isn't to say some teams haven't remained at the top....but if you examine their rosters, you will see massive chage in many areas.
They just figured it out or got lucky.
4 year window. Think in those terms and you will see the light.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
Tuck inside at RG, and we might have a humdinger of an O-line. something we've prayed for since 1999
I don't know if Tucker would be a good RG.
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Good point nc...and I agree
Thomas is not a "must" although he also is my favourite selection, simply because it upgrades 2 positions (at least on paper)..it all depends who we sign the upcoming weeks....but it looks like LT, DL, RB and CB are our needs that we can´t seriously upgrade anymore in FA....so where do we start?
My priority list come draft day:
1. Joe Thomas
2. trade down and take Branch
3. trade down and take Peterson
The only G I would draft in the 2nd would be Sears...otherwise go DL or CB here and Beekman, Ramirez or Yanda in the 3rd or 4th
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I think you can forget Thomas. 45 mil in Steinback....30 something in Schaffer.....40 mil in Bentley??.
How much money can be spent on the Oline??
our starting line will be:
Shaffer LT
Steinback LG
Fraley C
Sowells or a 2nd round lineman RG
Tucker RT
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Let's just hope that Tucker is OK, and back to his 2005 form.
Born and breed with OSU, App. State alumni, but bleed orange and brown.
Go ARMY......Beat Navy!!!!!!
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Quote:
our starting line will be:
Shaffer LT
Steinback LG
Fraley C
Sowells or a 2nd round lineman RG
Tucker RT
I can't say that I would mind that line-up.
I'd sure like to see what a back like Peterson could do behind that front.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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WOOOOHOOOO ...... a real OLman ... I am THRILLED ... and am gonna enjoy that for a few days before I start to decipher what it may or may not mean ...
I'm just gonna be THRILLED we got a QUALITY QUALITY OLman ...
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Quote:
I think you can forget Thomas. 45 mil in Steinback....30 something in Schaffer.....40 mil in Bentley??.
How much money can be spent on the Oline??
our starting line will be:
Shaffer LT
Steinback LG
Fraley C
Sowells or a 2nd round lineman RG
Tucker RT
Shaffer only has $12 million guaranteed and didn't play all that well last year and Tucker might never be the same. I think we still draft Thomas for a big-time insurance policy OR better yet draft Thomas and cut the worst of the three and draft real RG too.
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There is a possibility of Dielman coming for a visit tomorrow.... If that happens, I think Phil will make a play at signing him. I do agree that we will probably end up going somewhere other than 1st round OL..... Peterson or Branch.... something I would have no problem with, after signing Steinbach, with or without Dielman.... 
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
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j/c
So is it time to put Steinbach in a bubble wrap till the first game of the season. Also put 24 hour watch on him as well. I swear if he blows out his knee i'll prolly offer a sacrifice to the football gods to change our fortune.
you had a good run Hank.
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J/C
Clements turned out to be the highest paid defensive player in the history of the league?????
A cornerback??? WTF!!!!!
So glad we signed Steinbach.....go get Deilman, and I won't care if it's Thomas or Peterson.....
Great Job Phil....screw Clements an his RIDICULOUS contract
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Terelle Davis when asked on the NFL network today said this. Q: Hey TD, who was the biggest free agent winner this year? A: I am gonna have to go with Eric Steinbach for the Cleveland Browns, he signed a big contract for a lineman and a big signing bonus, I think he will play a long time and see every penny of that money. MY thgouths on Terelles comments.... Well Terelle it actually isn't that much considering Nate Clements CRAZY contract even though you seem to think he is worth it. TD 80 Million!!! Thats Peyton Manning money for christs sake. Also considering Dockery got a very similar contract, it is better than you make it sound. You just have the Browns hate. I do hope your right, and that he will see every penny...I really do TD
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Quote:
How did it help the Bengals by drafting him ?
Players are 4-5 year propositions until the second contract.
Quit being so dense.
Teams like the Eagles, Bengals, Chiefs, etc draft offensive linemen year in and year out. The young guys learn behind the vets. When the vets reach a point in their career where they can earn big money in FA, the team has a capable player ready to replace him.......and they don't have to spend an insane amount of money to keep him.
WTF is so hard to understand about that?
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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j/c
An O-Lineman! Hooray!
Please God, don't let anything happen to him (like LeCharles).
We STILL should draft Joe.
![[Linked Image from members.cox.net]](http://members.cox.net/flyinc5/smallsigpics/frcburnout.gif) AL 29 76 14 R_K
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Dating back to 2000 the Bengals have only drafted 3 OL in the 1st and 2nd rounds. That hardly qualify as year in and year out.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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The first 4 rounds are the barometer. And who did they have on the roster before 2000.
Oh..........and will you please quit replying to me? You're annoying as hell.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Quote:
When the vets reach a point in their career where they can earn big money in FA, the team has a capable player ready to replace him.......and they don't have to spend an insane amount of money to keep him.
You also have a chance to resign your young lineman ( or ant position) before they ever hit free agency for a fraction of the cost.
#gmstrong
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The chiefs only took 3 OL in the first 2 rounds dating all the way back to 1995!
Point is, you don't need to pick top top tier lineman "year in and year out."
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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Quote:
You can't keep drafting lineman early
No,, but with a steady, solid, long term investment you will end up hitting on some 2nd day guys here or there. It doesnt always mean first rounder.
And I completely disagree its not about long term, For Romeo it might be. But for Savage it would be in his best interest to build a team that will be competitive for 5-10 years IMO. GMs tend to live through a few coaches if they are doing a good job.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
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So glad we signed Steinbach.....go get Deilman, and I won't care if it's Thomas or Peterson.....
Great Job Phil....screw Clements an his RIDICULOUS contract
We got "STEINER" and Deilman would be the icing on the cake. I "feel" the Lions are going for Joe Thomas so that logically means we have three choices:
1) Pick Adrian Peterson, RB
2) Pick Calvin Johnson and make a deal.
3) Trade down for some good picks.
JMHO.
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Quote:
Quote:
----That's a lot of money for a guard. That is why I say you have to build your OL through the draft. You overpay in FA.
How did it help the Bengals by drafting him ?
Players are 4-5 year propositions until the second contract.
If the Bengals wanted to keep him, guess what it would have cost to keep him? I say a dollar more than the 49.5 million we paid.
Drafting players is no better way to build a line than signing free agents if you don't keep them.
Actually Ballpeen, according to his agent, the bengals could have signed him midway thru the season for around 5.2 million a year but they have already invested in their tackles and drafted Whitworth who can play either guard or tackle. i disagree with you about your assestment on building a line. if you are consistently drafting good linemen, then you don't need to overpay free agents. the only lineman on the bengals that wasn't drafted by them is Bobbie Williams. Jones, Anderson, Ghiacuic, Whitworth, Andrews, Kooistra, Kieft, Wilkerson were all drafted by the bengals (except for Wilkerson who signed and a undrafted free agent but should still count).
But anyway congratulations on obtaining a great left guard....just keep him away from boats..lol.
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Phil sure does shine on day one of free agency. He knows how to close a deal. It's beyond my wildest dreams to think he can land Deilman, but with Phil, you never say never. In any case, Steinbach at LG can't help but make Shaffer a better LT. That's the scenario I see. I hope for Sears or Blaylock in the second to compete with Sowells for the RG position and Tuck to man the RT spot. With Friedman, Andruzzi, Smith, Mantua, and Kelly available as backups, the OL might be a pretty strong unit for the Browns in '07. I can only hope. I see the Browns drafting Peterson in the first round. Teamed up with Reuben in the backfield, running behind a much improved OL, Charlie Frye might just get a little extra breathing room. In the final analysis, the Steinback signing is an extremely significant move for the offensive side of the ball. Great job, Phil.  What have you got in store for day 2 of FA?
[color:"red"]"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication."
---Leonardo daVinci
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Browns add a Bengal to line Saturday, March 3, 2007 By Steve Doerschuk Repository sports writer BEREA NFL news travels at warp speed bordering on hilarious. By 7:30 p.m. Friday, Wikipedia listed Eric Steinbach as "an American football player who currently plays for the Cleveland Browns." Steinbach became available to the Browns earlier in the day, when the unrestricted free-agent market opened. Cleveland swiftly dotted the i's on a seven-year, $49 million contract for Steinbach, a guard who reflects the crazy rate at which inflation has overrun the sport. Steinbach's deal is roughly the equivalent of what the Browns paid No. 1 overall draft pick Tim Couch, a quarterback, in 1999. Cleveland was willing to pay because Couch and its other passers keep getting killed. They were willing last year, too, giving center LeCharles Bentley a six-year, $36 million deal and left tackle Kevin Shaffer a seven-year, $36 million load. Bentley owned the most lucrative offensive line contract in Browns history before the Steinbach deal blew it away. Browns General Manager Phil Savage isn't done. He has suggested he'd use free agency and the draft to bring in three new blockers who can help right away. Savage saddled up knowing he needed to make a quick splash to avoid not landing an impact guy in free agency. With the NFL Network reporting Shaker Heights native and former Ohio State Buckeye Nate Clements has agreed to an $80 million deal with San Francisco, Savage will turn to other targets, including quarterbacks Matt Schaub and Brad Johnson. Meanwhile, here's where the Steinbach signing leaves the 2007 line: n Left tackle. Shaffer is back, but the Browns have the option of using Steinbach there and moving Shaffer to the right side. Browns scouts don't think they could go wrong drafting Wisconsin's Joe Thomas at No. 3 overall, but spending the moon on Steinbach is another indication Oklahoma running back Adrian Peterson is the target. n Left guard. Steinbach most likely replaces Joe Andruzzi, whose knees may not last through a contract expiring after the 2008 season. n Center. With Bentley out for 2007 and maybe forever, Hank Fraley, 29, was re-signed late Thursday. n Right guard. Texas Tech's Manuel Ramirez hits as hard as Manny Ramirez. The 326-pounder is part of a strong group of draftable guards and could be there in Round 3. Auburn's Ben Grubbs, Texas' Justin Blalock and Tennessee's Arron Sears would be Round 2 targets. Another option is bringing back free agent Cosey Coleman. n Right tackle. Ryan Tucker has looked well during visits to the team complex. He would be the best option if he can beat mental problems that dogged him in 2006. Kelly Butler is an iffy young veteran. Central Michigan's Joe Staley could be of interest in Round 2. The bottom line: Plans are in pencil, and the eraser is ready to wag. Steinbach, who will turn 27 next month, had some observers convinced Butch Davis would bring him to Cleveland with the 21st pick of the 2003 draft. Instead, Davis chose center Jeff Faine. The Bengals used the first pick of the second round to take Steinbach. Steinbach's market value was not hurt by having been arrested last summer for piloting a boat on the Ohio River under the influence of alcohol. The former Iowa standout is regarded as a smart, reliable player. He missed just one Bengals game in four years, starting all but two. Steinbach could not be reached Friday night. A press conference is expected today. http://www.cantonrep.com/index.php?Category=17&ID=339600&r=2&subCategoryID=
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First off folks...Dielman's camp is saying since we gave Steiner Hutch money there's no sense in even visiting Cleveland...
I AGREE...And I'm GLAD...NO WAY do we need to invest 100M in Guards...That's just DUMB...
Vers...Gotta give Savage some serious Kudos for displaying some sense of DISCIPLINE...When was enuff is enuff???...Published reports say we were back and forth with Frisco all day for Clements...When Frisco made their "Final Offer" and Savage saw it>>>He said FORGET YOU...And Frisco apparently was poised to GO HIGHER YET...Way to be Savage...Way to be...
Signing Clements at those kinda bucks woulda been a HUGE mistake...I believe we can AND SHOULD kiss goodbye any signing of a Top 5 Corner in the league from now on...Clements just reset the bar that Bailey set in 04...That's flippin' CRAZY $$$...
Your BEST Corners will now come from the Draft...
We've got a guy coming to Cleveland Saturday morning that has the Potential to be a #1 Corner in the next 2 yrs...He's at that Corner Point in his career where they start...And SHINE...Going into year 5 this kid is the PERFECT back-up plan to Clements...
Rod Hood...Phi...5' 11"and nearly 200...
SIGN THIS DUDE SAVAGE...$$$ will be decent...
After signing Steinbach it is now TIME TO INVEST IN THE DRAFT!!!!!!!!!!!!
We can look at this as tho we ORIGINALLY drafted Bentley and Steinbach and resigned both to keep them here...These guys aren't the 30 something high dollar guys...These are guys who might just be here the entire length of contract...It's better than what we had been doing...lol...
I don't expect Tucker to be here this year at 3.5M...I'm afraid we're thinking we just cannot count on him...Sorry Tuck...It's for the better of the team...Thanks for your services and sorry we could never get anyone worth a flyin' next to ya'...Go take care of your HEALTH...
I also don't see Shaffer as one who will see his entire contract here...And if u dig deep we would see his contract is not that bad with the Cap escalating as it has...The best thing to do is to get him to the opposite side tho...AND THAT DON'T MEAN STEINBACH AT LEFT TACKLE...
There's THREE guys out there that we should now key on...And we're interested in all 3...
1) Hood for Corner
2) Peek for OLB
3) Robaire Smith for DE
If we only sign these 3 and Steinbach we should be Happy Ass Pups cause we'll STILL have ALOT of cap space left...Why???...Cause we were DISCIPLINED enuff to not blow a major wad of it on Clements...
Turning to the draft we have serious options...Like him or not...Adrian Peterson is gonna get a serious look...IMO he's a player we can get at 5 with Zona coming up to 3...If we so choose...That's if Thomas is there...
ME???...I take Thomas and begin that OL overhaul via the draft...But it wouldn't blow my mind if we went down to 5 and landed Peterson...That's gonna cost em' AT LEAST their High 2nd Rounder...There's some damage that can be done there...
U get AP at 5 and one of the Guards and one of the DL with the 1st 6 picks of round 2 and you've got 3 IMMEDIATE STARTERS...
Go Browns!!!
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Quote:
Coupled with the fact that news reports all over projected him fetching LT Coin...
What I'm saying is the COIN is not what I'm questioning,, I want to know how/why some people out there think this guy is a LT,,, I mean beyond stepping in for an injured guy for a few games,,
Size looks good for the position,, so did LJ Sheltons size... But it's skill that counts right?
Anyway, I was just wondering,,
hey, if he can indeed play LT better than Shaffer and we end up putting shaffer at RT and using Stienbach at LT,, I'm just fine with that.. I have no problem,
But I look at this as the perfect situation right now... we have a chance, with Thomas in the draft to solidify our line for many years to come,,,
Shaffer RT
? RG (could be Tuck, sowells, andruzzi or one of the good 2nd rounder types)
Fraley C
Stienbach LG
Thomas LT
Tell me something,,, doesn't that sound about as sweet as can be.....
To further sweeten the thing,, Bentley may/should be able to return in another year.. If Fraley remains solid, Bently moves right into a Guard spot,,,
Or lets say, we don't need him at guard, but he proves he's back to Pro Bowl ability at Center,,, Frayley is traded for a pick or two,,, Bently moves back to Center,,, and BOOM,, NICE LINE yeah?
This one signing allows for lots and lots of good possibilities,,,, I'm excited
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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It's all based on speculation D.
1) Shaffer not being a left tackle is no longer a secret. People get it now when they didn't get it before.
2) Steinbach signed for what people DID consider left tackle money. The problem with that thinking is that the circumstances and landscape has changed. Players who are actually good left tackles would get more than Hutch got.
3) Stein played left tackle in college  So did LJ Shelton.
There's reason to speculate that he's a left tackle, even if said reasons aren't well thought out.
Frankly, I think he's too light in the ass to play tackle, but that's just me. And no, I don't think this signing precludes us from drafting Thomas. If we do, Tucker can possibly move to guard or get cut outright. If he's cut, the money we'd save would make drafting Thomas palatable.
DND, did you see what the reported first three year guarantees are? I told you the landscape had changed, and that we're not talking about the same apples we were a couple of years ago. We're looking at more than $20 million in cap charges for the O-line. Do the math. The days for heavy SB money with veteran minimum first year salaries are dead when it comes to TOP-FLIGHT players.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Well thank you Toad,,, all I've been asking for is a reason why people thought he could do it,, Doesn't really sound too likely that any team (unless they are totally hard up) would actually consider... JMO however..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Quote:
Coupled with the fact that news reports all over projected him fetching LT Coin...
What I'm saying is the COIN is not what I'm questioning,, I want to know how/why some people out there think this guy is a LT,,, I mean beyond stepping in for an injured guy for a few games,,
Size looks good for the position,, so did LJ Sheltons size... But it's skill that counts right?
Anyway, I was just wondering,,
hey, if he can indeed play LT better than Shaffer and we end up putting shaffer at RT and using Stienbach at LT,, I'm just fine with that.. I have no problem,
But I look at this as the perfect situation right now... we have a chance, with Thomas in the draft to solidify our line for many years to come,,,
Shaffer RT
? RG (could be Tuck, sowells, andruzzi or one of the good 2nd rounder types)
Fraley C
Stienbach LG
Thomas LT
Tell me something,,, doesn't that sound about as sweet as can be.....
To further sweeten the thing,, Bentley may/should be able to return in another year.. If Fraley remains solid, Bently moves right into a Guard spot,,,
Or lets say, we don't need him at guard, but he proves he's back to Pro Bowl ability at Center,,, Frayley is traded for a pick or two,,, Bently moves back to Center,,, and BOOM,, NICE LINE yeah?
This one signing allows for lots and lots of good possibilities,,,, I'm excited
Good post and I agree 100% with all o fit... I am scared shitless that we are going to do a Ross Verba and take a great OG and try to move him to LT...
As DnD have been discussing in the chatroom, we could actually take Joe Thomas and then put the rest of the drafts focus on the Defense... Would be the smart thing to do and then start drafting OG every other year on the 1st day...
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Good post.
I agree...Dielman isn't going to sign here. Around the league he is probably the better of the two between him and Steiner....as you said...we better not put 100 mil into guards.
I just read a report that said Tucker looked fine, but looks don't have much to do with it. But if the meds are working, he can be very normal. I am sure his problem during the season was Dr.s were have a problem finding the correct medicine and or dosage. Sometimes it is a bit like peeling an onion. You just have to keep working through layers until you find the correct amount...and that can take some trial and error.
We still have cash to spend, and I hope we do. I don't want to just blow up future years caps, but being 30 mil under the cap and winning 4 games doesn't give me the feeling a team is trying its best to field a winner.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Dawg Talker
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March 2, 2007) -- Free agency has opened with a flurry. Already, numerous teams are on the board. Take a glance at the deals, and the potential soon-to-be deals.
Friday, March 2
The Patriots are expected to sign free agent LB Adalius Thomas and TE Kyle Brady.
The Saints are scheduled to host free agents CB Ken Hamlin and LB Brian Simmons on Saturday.
The 49ers have signed CB Nate Clements to the biggest contract ever given to a defensive player -- eight years, $80 million, including $22 million guaranteed.
Browns have signed OT Eric Steinbach to seven-year contract worth $49.5 million with $17 million guaranteed.
Also, the Bills and OT Langston Walker have agreed to terms on five-year deal worth approximately $25 million.
Buccaneers have signed free-agent DE Patrick Chukwurah to five-year contract worth $5.5 million with $400,000 guaranteed.
The Falcons have signed FB Ovie Mughelli to a six-year contract worth $18 million, including $5 million guaranteed.
Giants officially sign C Shaun O'Hara.
Free-agent LB Napoleon Harris scheduled to visit the Buccaneers Friday and Chiefs Saturday.
Rams hosted visits with free agents LB Tully Banta-Cain and WR Drew Bennett.
Patriots hosted visits with free agents TE Kyle Brady and RB Sammy Morris.
49ers also played host to free-agents S Michael Lewis.
Browns hosted visit with DE Antwaan Peek.
Redskins hosted visit with free-agent LB London Fletcher. Redskins also scheduled to host visit with CB Fred Smoot today.
Broncos hosted visits with free agents TE Daniel Graham, RB Ahman Green and DE Patrick Kerney, and scheduled to welcome QB Brad Johnson on March 3.
Free-agent RB Dominic Rhodes is scheduled to visit the Giants Friday.
Free-agent G Kris Dielman is scheduled to visit the Seahawks Friday.
Free-agent FB Justin Griffith is scheduled to visit the Bucs Friday.
Free-agent WR Kevin Curtis is scheduled to visit the Vikings Friday and the Lions Saturday.
Free-agent QB Jeff Garcia is scheduled to visit the Raiders Friday.
Free-agent DE Dewayne White scheduled to visit the Lions Friday.
The Jaguars have signed RT Tony Pashos and K Josh Scobee, each to five-year deals. Pashos' deal is for $24 million, including a $9 million signing bonus.
Other news
Quarterback Jake Plummer is expected to retire. The Broncos and Buccaneers had agreed to terms on a trade to send Plummer to Tampa Bay in exchange for a fourth-round draft pick, but the trade would be nullified by Plummer's decision to retire.
Dolphins have released DE Kevin Carter and G Jeno James, the team announced. (Dolphins have yet to release Joey Harrington. His roster bonus is not due until next week, so they have some time.)
The Patriots have released RB Corey Dillon and re-signed RB Heath Evans.
Jets have released QB Patrick Ramsey.
The Lions released TE Marcus Pollard, DT Marcus Bell and DT Tyoka Jackson; The Lions also traded DE James Hall to St. Louis for their second 2007 fifth-round draft choice. Detroit's trade of Dre' Bly to Denver became official.
The Falcons released LB Edgerton Hartwell and LB Ike Reese.
Vikings have released S Tank Williams.
Yet ANOTHER toolbag proclaiming Steiny as a Tackle... I hneed to watch the presser on him but I am hoping and praying that one of our beat writers asks the question about where he will be playing...
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Last edited by DawgStyle44; 03/03/07 07:59 AM.
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Hall of Famer
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I AGREE...And I'm GLAD...NO WAY do we need to invest 100M in Guards...That's just DUMB...
As much as I want the OL addressed, I would not pay Dielman. Too much money. Build it through the draft.
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Vers...Gotta give Savage some serious Kudos for displaying some sense of DISCIPLINE
LOL............give him kudos for not spending over $80 million? Okay, great discipline, Phil.
I've been arguing w/several of you for a month about Clements. I didn't want the Browns to pay him from the get-go. Of course, one poster said that was just my hate for Savage shining through. Dawg, anytime a player wants to be paid like he is the # 1 player at his position, he probably is asking for too much money.
I can't say that Phil was disciplined. I just think SF was stupid to pay him that much. Thank God they were.
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We can look at this as tho we ORIGINALLY drafted Bentley and Steinbach and resigned both to keep them here...These guys aren't the 30 something high dollar guys...These are guys who might just be here the entire length of contract...It's better than what we had been doing...lol...
LOL.........I love your homerism and enthusiasm. It's cute.
We paid almost $86 million for those two. That's a lot of jack. I still can't believe that people don't get why you must draft offensive linemen. Now that guards are finally getting paid big money, it is even going to be harder to acquire offensive linemen. It's so freaking obvious and yet people still don't understand the importance of drafting OL. 
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I don't expect Tucker to be here this year at 3.5M...I'm afraid we're thinking we just cannot count on him...Sorry Tuck...It's for the better of the team...Thanks for your services and sorry we could never get anyone worth a flyin' next to ya'...Go take care of your HEALTH...
I hope you are wrong. Tucker is better than Shaffer. I hope he stays.
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Turning to the draft we have serious options...Like him or not...Adrian Peterson is gonna get a serious look...IMO he's a player we can get at 5 with Zona coming up to 3...If we so choose...That's if Thomas is there...
Here we go w/the justification thought process again. Very similar to the nonsense when we took Timid and when we took Leon.
I'm telling you what...........if the Browns pass on Thomas for Peterson or anyone else for that matter.........it will be a decision that will haunt them for years. It will be very similar to the threads about Butch passing on LT that pop up on here all the time.
Joe Thomas is going to be a great player. It will be a HUGE mistake if Savage doesn't take him!
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
I agree...Dielman isn't going to sign here. Around the league he is probably the better of the two between him and Steiner....as you said...we better not put 100 mil into guards
I'm usually critical of the Browns, but I always try to be fair. Therefore, I think you are mistaken that Dielman is more highly regarded than Steinbach.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Dawg Talker
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If given a choice of the two, I would take Steiny in a heartbeat over Deilman.. Glad we got the right one!
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Legend
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Legend
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I think, not sure, but I think what DnD is saying is that Savage showed restraint in NOT trying to outbid SF for Clements,,,, And frankly, that's a good thing on many levels, 1 being that he's not worth that kinda jack,,, and 2, it's a cap killer contract that will strap a team for years... that's just stupid in my eyes.. But hey,, that's just me,
As for Stienbach, I'm very very glad we got him,, he's a damn fine guard.. By the way, I'm not buying into the hype about him playing LT,, but who knows.. I guess anything is possible.
As for DnD's other point about Dielman and not wanting to tie up 100 mill on the Oline,, well, all I can say is, perhaps it's time for a little overkill,, We have been deprived of a line for so long, maybe it's time we overspend and get something that ends this discussion for the next 5+ years...
(for the record, I don't like spending that kinda money on one unit either, but it may be necessary until we actually draft guys as good as those we can get in FA)
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Hall of Famer
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DND, did you see what the reported first three year guarantees are? I told you the landscape had changed, and that we're not talking about the same apples we were a couple of years ago. We're looking at more than $20 million in cap charges for the O-line. Do the math. The days for heavy SB money with veteran minimum first year salaries are dead when it comes to TOP-FLIGHT players.
U just ain't gettin' this [censored] Toad...
I'll lay it out for u one last time with an example of how this deal can get him 23M in the 1st 3 years and NOT COST US more than the 4M I said it would in the 1st year cap hit...
PAY ATTENTION...
7 years and 49M...Right???...23 the 1st 3 yrs...That ISN'T 7.66M in Cap Hit each year the 1st 3...17M Guaranteed...That IS NOT ALL SB MONEY...Just for YOUR example I'm gonna say 14M is SB and 3M is a Roster Bonus in 2008...There's your 17M GUARANTEED...That leaves SIX MIILION IN BASES THE FIRST THREE YEARS...And the HIGHER that SB is...The LOWER the Balance over 3 yrs...
Divide 14 by 2 Toad...That's 2M...
Hell...JUST FOR YOU let's say all 3 1st years are Bases of 2M each...Which I GUARANTEE U IT AIN'T...The 2nd and 3rd are HIGHER than the 1st...Even not...Here's your 2007 CAP HIT...
2M in SB
2M in BASE SALARY
FOUR MILLION...Just like I said and that ain't comin' anywhere NEAR that percentage spent on the OL that u used the other day...What was it???...22%???...Actually ONE THIRD is what u initially said I believe...
It MIGHT be 20% for the ENTIRE UNIT...Not just the starting 5...
Now I'm tired of doing this [censored] for u...If u wanna give me ALL 5 starting linemen's Contract numbers I'll give the % figure +/- 1%...And it ain't 21%...Learn how to figure a Cap Hit before u spew this BS...There's a few of us that have taken the time over the years to LEARN...I suggest u do it...
Go Browns!!!
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,554 |
Quote:
I still can't believe that people don't get why you must draft offensive linemen.
For the record....I get it. I just harp on my point to illustrate the draft isn't the only way. In the end, it takes a balance. You do have to have some young guys to balance the dollars as a unit. And the only way to have any decent players in their 1st contract is to draft them. Guys who work out that come off the waiver wire are far and few between. Second contracts for the majority of players is their largest contract. If you have all of your linemen in that second contract, you are in a poor position. You probably seek a balance of players in their 1st, 2nd, and possibly 3rd contract cycle. Our problem for a number of years is we had most of our guys in their 1st and 3rd cycle. Verba was the only decent 2nd contract player I remember.
Thomas or not, the Browns no doubt need to select at least 1 olineman in the first 2 rounds...IMO
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,554
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,554 |
Quote:
I'm usually critical of the Browns, but I always try to be fair. Therefore, I think you are mistaken that Dielman is more highly regarded than Steinbach.
Good. Sometimes it is good to be wrong. 
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Steinbach just signed with us
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