DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Line Backer debate

I really loved what I saw from Titus in camp last year and in preseason he was terrific. I am pretty sure he led the team in tackles during preseason by a pretty good margin (going on memory). Just seems like he was the one guy on defense not named Benard that really wanted it.

I know it was only in preseason but he outplayed all of the interior linebackers and it wasn't even close. Also his tackles always seem to be made at or near the line of scrimmage. Those plays to me show real instinct.

As for his fumble return for a TD, the only thing that proves is he is smart enough to pick up a football and run in the right direction lol

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Scott Fujita

(On Titus Brown and depth at linebacker)- “Titus (Brown) is just a football player. He is an old school kind of junkyard dog. He’s heavy handed. He is just a ball player and I think the more opportunities he has to get on the field, the better he is going to get. Some of the young guys who came in undrafted, some of them are really sharp guys like Brian Smith.
These are good young players who I think are going to turn out well in this league. Obviously, experience wise it doesn’t appear there is a lot of depth, but these guys are coming along fast and that’s without an offseason program and really just two weeks of work with these coaches.”

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Not the Junkyard dog jinx

That was a mad dog in a meat market.

Totally different. Junkyard dogs are just protecting their turf, with everything they have.

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Snow job.

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Agreed.

However, it does no player any harm to hear encouraging words from his coaches and teammates. It doesn't take a lot of effort from anyone to build someone up in order to help them fight through difficulties and set their goals squarely on success.

It works or it doesn't but rarely could it hurt. Unless a player hears those encouraging words and then sits back and rests on those laurels. If that's the case then dude simply doesn't have what it takes anyway.

The only ones it hurts is us fans who desperately want to hear the naked truth about our roster and may not get that when this is happening. We hear this, get excited for the player and then he gets cut and we wonder, "What the heck?!"

Small price for us to pay as well. It's the games that count and it's the games as our reason for being here.

I don't know Purp.. Fujita is articulate, smart and it doesn't strike me as a party line kinda guy.

Also,, I doubt that Fujita wants to throw a current teammate under a bus either.

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That quote by Fujita totally smells of a pre-programmed P.R. response.
The coach calls Brown "heavy handed", now a player is. Same player is also pimping the other current media-"darling" LB, B.Smith.... and then it finishes with a good pep talk about how these no-names are really "coming along".

Snow job.

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Could be. the roster is pretty much set except for some tweaking at the bottom of the depth chart... so what are these guys supposed to say about their teammates? "They are young and inexperienced, but to make it worse, their technique is awful, they are slow and they take plays off."

No, you built up your teammates every chance you get and hope they live up to it.. if they don't they won't be here long... but if they are on the roster with you, you pump them up.

And then there is always the chance that he means it.

maybe it seems like programmed sound bytes because this is what the players are saying amongst themselves when they talk about the group?

Or do you honestly think that a coach or PR guy sits down with the players and says, "Look, we all know this guy isn't very good but this is what I want you to say when asked about it..... "?

I do, in fact, think that they are coached on certain talking points.

with the players, no. with a specific leader on the team defense who is also angling for a life after football (the guys who are union rep's tend to be looking at NFL as a lifetime gig). well, maybe. maybe not.

either it's being programmed in on the field (those same phrases used by coaches about the guy constantly and Fujita picking it up), or it's being done on purpose.

most likey IMO is that Fujita is being used as a bit of a player-coach where he's in more of the coaching meetings than most of the players (common practice for the veteran leaders) and these are the phrases that get used.

all that really matters is if Titus shows these attributes on Sundays. hopefully he does.

I know this isn't a draft forum but we are talking Lb's. Thought I would post this as a primer for the college season.

2012 DRAFT OLB PROFILES

*Note players not necessarily listed in order of grade

4-3 LBs

Zach Brown, North Carolina, 6-2, 230, 4.35, SR… Fast, athletic WLB who will finally get a chance to be a full-time starter this fall after backing up Quan Sturdivant and Bruce Carter the past couple of seasons; still finished second on the team with 72 tackles last fall; has uncommon speed for a LB; indeed is a former state sprint champion who holds the UNC school record for the indoor 60-meter dash with a 6.72 clocking; not always that instinctive but can outrun most mistakes; has exceptional lateral range, but isn’t that aggressive or instinctive attacking the line of scrimmage; can run with just about any receiver in college football and has decent ball skills; picked off three passes last fall; not all that big at barely 230 pounds and can be engulfed at the point of attack by big offensive lineman, but is a physical tackler; is a also a dynamic special teamer.

Travis Lewis, Oklahoma, 6-2, 235, 4.40, SR ... Super productive WLB who already has piled up 360 career tackles; not all that big or physical, but is a weight-room warrior with good strength and really explodes into tackles; also is a tremendous athlete with sub-4.4 speed, although tends to be somewhat stiff in the hips and doesn’t change direction all that quickly; has good instincts and exceptional acceleration and range; can also run with most backs and TEs and as a former star high school RB has good ball skills for a LB; indeed, already shares OU career record for picks for a LB with 8; can get into the backfield, but is not a natural blitzer; also struggles to get off blocks when engaged at times; will miss the first month of the season with a broken foot.

Lavonte David, Nebraska, 6-1, 225, 4.62, SR … Was a very good junior college LB before blowing up at Nebraska last fall where he posted a team-record 152 tackles; safety-sized at a bulked up 225 pounds, but has a thick lower body and plays bigger; also has good though not great speed with a projected 40-clocking in the 4.6 range, but again plays faster; is a good athlete with fluid hips; is also a real student of the game and is very instinctive; reads the play well and is very quick and explosive; can beat the offense to the point of attack, but can also get off blocks when engaged; has shortish arms, but is a very good tackler who drives through ball-carriers; can also blitz and make plays in coverage; had 6 sacks last fall, while breaking up 10 passes; can turn and run with most backs and TEs, but doesn’t have the greatest hands himself.

Keenan Robinson, Texas, 6-2, 235, 4.65, SR … Active, athletic backer with sideline-to-sideline range; versatile player who will line up on the strongside this fall, but could also play in the middle or on the strongside; aggressive run defender with a quick first step, good instincts and the ability to change direction on the fly; not huge by NFL standard, but has good functional strength and is a physical tackler who had 113 tackles in 2010; can get into the backfield, but is not necessarily a natural pass rusher; also covers a lot of ground in coverage and had a couple of picks last fall, but isn’t quite as instinctive when playing in reverse; excellent all-around athlete was a state-level triple jumper in high school where he also played some WR; also a good student and character player.

Sean Spence, Miami, 6-0, 225, 4.58, SR ... Disruptive WLB with first-round physical skill, but is somewhat undersized; one of the best all-around athletes on a roster full of good all-around athletes; has excellent instincts and a fine motor, as well has the speed, quickness and agility of a safety; not all that big at barely 225 pounds, but still packs a wallop when he finds the ball as he explodes through ball-carriers; isn’t going to stack and shed at the point of attack because of his size, but is tough to block because he is so active; specializes in getting into the backfield before a play has a chance to develop and had 13.5 other tackles for loss last season; not a natural pass rusher, though, but did have 2.5 sacks last fall; has great balance, can change direction on the fly, as well as flip his hips in transition out of his back-peddle; solid in coverage, but has the hands of a LB; missed three games in 2009 with a knee injury.

Danny Trevathan, Kentucky, 6-1, 230, 4.55, SR … Fast, athletic WLB with excellent range and instincts; solid wrap-up tackler had a 144 stops in 2010 including 13 for loss; also enters the season with an active streak of 9 games with double-digit tackles; had another 80 tackles in 2009 when he played through a broken wrist; weight room warrior isn’t all that big, but has bulked up to 230 pounds; does a nice job getting off blocks; has good quickness and excellent closing speed; has reportedly run the 40 in under 4.50 seconds; still more of a sideline-to-sideline type; not a natural blitzer and doesn’t make a lot of plays in coverage, although he can run with most backs and TEs; character player who goes hard all the time.

Nigel Bradham, Florida State, 6-2, 240, 4.65, SR … Consistent, versatile veteran WLB with 26 career starts; athletic player with good speed and better quickness; has good instincts with sideline-to-sideline range; solid wrap-up tackler led the team with 98 tackles last fall, although he doesn’t deliver many big hits; also not known as a natural blitzer, but did have 5 sacks last fall; covers a lot of ground in coverage and can run with most backs and TEs, but doesn’t have great ball skills and has only one career pick and 5 pass breakups; has a thick lower base, but isn’t that physical at the point of attack and struggles getting off blocks.

Tank Carder, Texas Christian, 6-2, 230, 4.67, SR … Athletic WLB leads the aggressive Horned Frogs defense; not overly big, but is an excellent tackler who rarely misses a stop; also very quick and instinctive with sideline-to-sideline range; can make plays in both directions; had 3.5 sacks and 6 other tackles for loss last fall; also one of the better coverage LBs in college football has 15 career pass break-ups, although he doesn’t necessarily have great hands; will struggle at times to hold the point of attack but generally does a good job shedding blocks; has an outstanding work ethic and should be a good special teamer at the next level; health is an issue, though, as he had problems with a shoulder in the past; also suffered multiple serious injuries including a punctured diaphragm, collapsed lung, and broken bones in his back in a car accident as a youth and wasn’t allowed to play high school football; fearless kid, though, who was a national BMX bike champion in elementary school.

Tyler Nielsen, Iowa, 6-4, 235, 4.60, SR … Prototype SSLB played in only 8 games last fall after suffering a broken vertebrae in his neck that will have to be checked at this spring; tall OLB with long arms can play over the TE and does a nice job fighting off blocks at the point of attack; smart, instinctive with good speed and range, although he’s a little stiff and doesn’t change direction all that well; not a natural blitzer, but effective in both zone and man coverage; had 42 tackles last fall with an interception and 4 other pass breakups.

Greg Williams, Pittsburgh, 6-3, 240, 4.75, SR … Came to Pitt as a heralded RB recruit – he’s a cousin of former star NFL RB Edge James - but made a successful transition to OLB; has started 32 games; not flashy, but a solid all-around player who can get into the backfield as well as make plays in coverage; lacks great range, but reads the field well, is quick off the snap and has good strength at the point of attack; opportunistic type who has three career TD returns in his career; had 64 tackles in 2010.

Ronnie Thornton, Southern Mississippi, 6-2, 230, 4.65, SR … Athletic WLB with good quickness, instincts and range; three-year starter had 61 tackles in 2010 after posting 114 the previous year; excellent athlete with sub-4.7 speed; has sideline-to-sideline range, but isn’t a natural pass rusher; also has yet to make many plays in coverage.

Max Gruber, Pittsburgh, 6-2, 230, SR … Tough, smart player who can play all three LB slots; not all that big or fast, but is very instinctive; understands the scheme and does a nice job lining up the defense; physical tackler had 170 tackles the past couple of seasons, although he doesn’t make a lot of plays upfield; can contribute in coverage and on special teams.

Miles Burris, San Diego State, 6-2, 235, 4.75 …. Hard-nosed SSLB who always seems to be around the ball; emerged as a disruptive force in 2010 when he had 20 tackles for loss, including 9.5 sacks; not overly big or fast, but has a quick first step, good instincts and is relentless into the backfield; not very agile and is a non-factor in coverage; character player who could also figure at ILB.

Ryan Baker, LSU, 6-0, 230, 4.77, SR … Versatile veteran LB will shift inside this fall after leading the team with 87 tackles as a WLB last season; tough player missed only one game after breaking his jaw in a pres-season practice last fall and then played in four games with his jaw wired shut; smart, instinctive player reads the play well and gets to the ball in a hurry; also a very physical tackler, but lacks great measurables; isn’t all that big at just under 6-0 and barely 230 pounds; has good quickness, but has limited speed in space; sees gaps in blocking and does and gets into backfield on a regular basis; had 11 tackles for loss last fall, including 7 sacks; has limited range in coverage; slightly older player will turn 25 during his first year in the pros.

Brian Hendricks, Wyoming, 6-1, 230, 4.75, SR … Active WLB who is always around the ball; isn’t all that big or fast, but has excellent instincts; solid wrap up tackler who had just under 200 tackles the past couple of seasons, but hasn’t made many plays in the backfield or in coverage; good all-around athlete who was a star RB in high school; also had a career record of 102-1 as a prep wrestler and was a medalist in state 400M; good student and character player who was a team captain as a junior; suffered a knee injury in high school and also missed a couple of games in 2009 with a minor knee injury.

Brandon Maye, Mississippi State, 6-2, 230, 4.70 … Looked like a potential early pick when he posted 103 tackles and forced 5 fumbles as a sophomore at Clemson in 2009, but slumped to just 43 stops last season and ended up transferring; not all that big or physical and can be engulfed at the point of attack, but has good speed and range; hard hitter but will play out of control at times; also not that instinctive in coverage.

Paul Vassallo, Arizona, 6-2, 240, SR … Former junior college All-American made an easy adjustment to D1A football last fall when he recorded 100-plus tackles, including 8 for loss; has good size, quickness and range; uses hands well to fend off blockers and can hold the point of attack; also has good instincts and plays hard; not a natural blitzer, though, doesn’t make many plays in coverage; originally walked on and red-shirted a year at Nevada; missed much of his sophomore year at the JC level with a concussion.

Demario Davis, Arkansas State, 6-2, 240, 4.60, SR … Former high school WR brings nice size/speed measurable to OLB; runs well and has sideline-to-sideline range; also quick with good balance and the ability to change direction on the fly; also a physical tackler who made over 140 stops the past couple of years, but doesn’t get into the backfield that often; not all that instinctive, though, and while he has good hands and the speed to stay with most backs and TEs, doesn’t make a lot of plays in coverage.

Curnelius Arnick, Tulsa, 6-0, 230, 4.80, SR … Underrated backer will play in the middle this fall, but projects to WLB at the next level; not all that big or fast, but is quick and instinctive; good tackler had 115 stops last fall including 5 sacks; also a very coverage LB who reads the play well and has good hands; picked off 4 passes last fall and broke up four others;

Alex Hoffman-Ellis, Washington State, 6-0, 245, 4.55, SR … Interesting prospect who has played only three years of football, but is a really good athlete who can run to the ball and brings an attitude when he finds it; actually was a troubled teen who never played any sports at all until his senior year in high school, but has since played basketball in the Maccabi games and was a track star (long jump, triple jump and javelin) in his one year at a junior college; still learning the technical aspects of the position and can be overwhelmed at the point of attack, but has great range and can outrun mistakes; had 81 tackles last fall including a couple of sacks; also picked off two passes and broke up four others.


http://www.gbnreport.com/2012olbprofiles.html

2012 DRAFT PREVIEW: MLBs

Overview: At least on paper, this year could be one of the best in a while for MLBs. And what's on paper is a cadre of outstanding junior mike backers including Vontaze Burfict of Arizona State, Luke Kuechly of Boston College, Notre Dame's Manti Te'O, Shane Skov of Stanford and Dont'a Hightower of Alabama, each of whom gets plenty of first-round mention whenever they are discussed in terms of the draft. First things first, though, and of course, more than one will have to leave school early and turn pro this winter for the conversation to continue and at least Te'O and Skov play at programs in which players tend to stay in school until their eligibility is up. As well, as talented as this group is collectively - they combined for 560 tackles in 2010 including a remarkable 183 by Kuechly - there are also major questions. Burfict, for example, has an elite size-speed combination and hits a ton, but is undisciplined both on and off the field. Meanwhile, Kuechly has brought the concept of tackling-machine to a new level, but actually isn't all that big or fast for an NFL MLB. For his part, Te'O, another big hitter with excellent, is something of a cult figure among Irish faithful, but isn't all that instinctive or agile. Same story for the Tide's Hightower who more than one scout who rates as potentially the most over-rated prospect in the entire draft. Indeed, it won't be a shock when all is said ond done that Hightower ends up being graded as a 3-4 OLB. In fact, many scouts consider Hightower's Alabama teammate Courtney Upshaw to be a better MLB prospect, however, the latter will also likely get a first look as a pass-rushing OLB.

However, even if all 5 juniors opt to stay in school, or fall flat on their collective faces prior to the draft, MLB likely will still be a relatively deep position for 2012 as there appears to be an inordinate number of solid senior MLBs out there including under-rated James-Michael Johnson of Nevada, Emmanual Acho of Texas, Korey Williams of Southern Miss, Chris Galippo of USC, Arkansas' Jerry Franklin, Chris Marve of Vanderbilt, and Carmen Messina of New Mexico. And the list goes on. Indeed, there is some real depth at the position. There are also a couple of potential sleepers in Noah Keller of Ohio, who had 155 tackles in 2009, but missed most of last season with a foot injury, and Barquell Rivers of Virginia Tech who had 96 tackles two years ago, but played in only one game because of a ruptured quadriceps tendon.

Top 20 MLB Prospects
#Player H/W School CL

1 Vontaze Burfict 6-3, 252 Arizona State JR
2 Luke Kuechly 6-2, 235 Boston College JR
3 Manti Te'O 6-2, 255 Notre Dame JR
4 Shane Skov 6-2, 245 Stanford JR
5 Dont'a Hightower 6-2, 240 California SR
6 James-Michael Johnson 6-1, 240 Nevada SR
7 Emmanual Acho 6-2, 245Texas SR
8 Korey Williams 6-2, 245 Southern Mississippi SR
9 Jerry Franklin 6-0, 245 Arkansas SR
10 Chris Marve 6-2, 235 Vanderbilt SR
11 Chris Galippo 6-2, 250 Southern California SR
12 Carmen Messina 6-2, 240New Mexico SR
13 Audie Cole 6-2, 240North Carolina StateSR
14 D. J. Holt 6-0, 255 California SR
15 Bobby Wagner 6-0, 235Utah State SR
16 J.K. Schaffer 6-1, 235 Cincinnati SR
17 Will Ebner 6-1, 230 Missouri SR
18 Garrick Williams 6-2, 235 Texas A&M SR
19 Ronny Snead 6-2, 230 Kentucky SR
20 Adrien Cole 6-1, 230 Louisiana Tech SR

If you ar curious about 3-4 backers then click the OLB link and scroll down because they do review 3-4 lb's but I didn't include them because we play a 4-3.

I think this next Draft is going to be a very good one for the LBer position.

Good for us too ... I hope.
Just my opinion here, but I think more in terms of OLBer with a high draft selection.

With DQ and Brown possibilities for the now as well as in the near future at the Mike. I don't think we go here with a top Draft pick.

Fujita will be okay we hope for a couple of seasons, but it's hard to project him much further I think.

And who's the WIL (now and in the future)?

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[Travis Lewis]although tends to be somewhat stiff in the hips and doesn’t change direction all that quickly;

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This statement is somewhat perplexing (if) true, because those whom are stiff in the hips normally are not too good in coverage ... And I know that this is not the case with Lewis, because he excels in coverage.

Vontaze Burfict would be "perfict".


I want him.

as of today the depth chart looks like this:

SLB: Fujita, B. Smith, Jacobs, Tarver

MLB: Jackson, T. Brown, Octavien

WLB: Gocong, Maiava, Gordon, Donald

the FO appears to be confident in the top two at each position.

They better be or they need to do something by the 2nd week of the season. I'm not as confident as they are and it appears that none of us here are awe inspired by the talent level of the LB depth chart.

We will see by the 2nd week of the season if all the hype is nothing but a snow job.

I can certainly see us taking 2 Lb's in our top 3 picks. DEpending on draft position we could get another stud player (DE Coples or WR Jeffries). What a deep draft and for a change deep at positions where we are in need. AND we have the extra 1st round pick. Looks like things are finally falling our way.

j/c

I was talking last night with a good friend - and fellow Browns fan - and we were discussing DQ.

I commented that I thought DQ looks too small to be effective in the middle. Maybe that is because he WAS to small to be in the middle in the 3-4.

But now in the 4-3, he STILL looks/seems-to-play too small.

We agree that he has excellent speed and pursuit and when he gets to the ball, the carrier goes down.

I have high hopes for DQ in this defense...we NEED him to be a good LB.

I am curious what others think about DQ in the middle vs DQ on the outside. I'm no Xs & Os expert but I continue to beleive that he does not have enough caboose to play in the middle - even in the 4-3.

Opinions?

his lack of size will matter less if Rubin and Taylor do their jobs. if those two constantly need double teams (so the chip-blockers cannot disengage), then DQ will be able to roam free to the ball carrier. if those two can be handled with 1 blocker or a quick-chip, then DQ is going to have OGs in his face and he hasn't shown much ability to take on those blockers.

now, he will swim under those blocks from time to time or just plain out-run them, but we need a more consistent force. but, I think it's more on the DTs than DQ to provide it this season.

BUT does he have Ray's 'Killer' instincts?

Im not sure if they will both be LB's but yes I agree with 2 1st round picks next year I expect to see 2 rookies starting from the 2012t draft, perhaps more.

I will just start by saying that I am NOT saying that DQ is going to be Ray Lewis... but, Ray Lewis wasn't 250 in his 5th season, according to what I could find he was 242.

But DQ has never had Ngata, Ed Reed, T Suggs, P Boulware, Rod Woodson, etc to play around him. I will grant you that Lewis makes people around him better and DQ has not shown that level yet but DQ has been in a system that doesn't suit him with marginal talent at best around him, he's starting on his 3rd defensive coordinator/system, and he missed almost all of the last 2 seasons.. I will stress again that even in a perfect world, DQ isn't Ray Lewis, but then who is?