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Posted By: FL_Dawg Line Backer debate - 08/16/11 10:02 PM
Titus Brown, seems to be making a case for himself as the air parent to the MLB position and is the buzz of the town right now.

If he can be a factor there, should we maybe flirt with the possibility of moving DQ Jackson over to the WIL?

Is Brown one of our 3 best LBers?

To this point Gocong is still the mystery man of the LBing crew? Maiava we think can cover in the nickel and still is a valuable asset.

Brain Smith could be a keeper if he can continue to build off of last week. Certainly he needs to shine on ST’s.

Are we better off at LBer then we appeared to be on paper?
Posted By: no_logo_required Re: Line Backer debate - 08/16/11 10:05 PM
Quote:

Are we better off at LBer then we appeared to be on paper?




let's hope so.
Posted By: Damanshot Re: Line Backer debate - 08/16/11 10:24 PM
I don't know..I think brown is insurance against DQ going down. At least that's the way I view it.
Posted By: waterdawg Re: Line Backer debate - 08/16/11 10:34 PM
As of right now I feel like the LB spot is one of the weakest on the Team..
Posted By: DeepThreat Re: Line Backer debate - 08/16/11 10:55 PM
Quote:

As of right now I feel like the LB spot is one of the weakest on the Team..




Agree. There is a definite lack of speed and coverage ability there.

I'm going to give Gocong a bit of an opportunity to show what he can do, but I think there's a good chance that the Browns would be better of with Maiava (whom I am not a big fan of) or Brown starting. Remains to be seen though.
Posted By: FL_Dawg Re: Line Backer debate - 08/16/11 11:02 PM
Quote:

As of right now I feel like the LB spot is one of the weakest on the Team..




Why then?
Posted By: Damanshot Re: Line Backer debate - 08/16/11 11:15 PM
Just clicking

Was it Shurmur that said that he thinks there may be a few LB's added when other teams start cutting down? if so, I'd think he feels as you guys do.
Posted By: Mourgrym Re: Line Backer debate - 08/16/11 11:21 PM
BEREA, Ohio -- Is Titus Brown benefiting from the Browns coaching change or is it the other way around?

Brown has been an under-the-radar player, exclusively on special teams, first under Romeo Crennel and then under Eric Mangini. Now in his fourth year, Brown's game is expanding to defense, just as new coach Pat Shurmur is looking for linebackers.

"It's like it's meant for me to be here," Brown said of surviving two coaching changes. "I just have to take advantage of it."

He's doing that. On Saturday night, Brown scooped up a fumble of Green Bay quarterback Graham Harrell forced by rookie linebacker Brian Smith and returned it 43 yards for a touchdown. He also co-led the Browns with four tackles, including a tackle for a loss after he read a screen pass and played off a block.

The score in the third quarter secured Shurmur's first exhibition win as an NFL coach. That's a good way for a player to gain notice of his new head coach.

"He goes in that category with guys like Joe Haden, where they're out there practicing and no matter how gritty the day is, no matter how tough the drill, he's got a smile on his face," Shurmur said Tuesday. "He's got a little something to say. He's just got one of those fun personalities. You hate to see just total drudgery, even if that's what they're feeling. He finds a way not to express it."
titus-brown-mug-ap.jpgView full sizeAP photo"No matter how gritty the day is, no matter how tough the drill, he's got a smile on his face," head coach Pat Shurmur says of Brown.

Brown has also been noticed because of his physique. At 6-3 and a rock-hard 250 pounds, he's the most imposing of the backup linebackers. "Kind of that run-stuffer body type," Shurmur said.

Which is good for a middle linebacker in the 4-3 base defense. Brown currently is backing up D'Qwell Jackson. In the old 3-4 system, Brown played outside and inside, but not much of either.

"Being behind David Bowens, Eric Barton ... Matt Roth, there wasn't enough room for a guy to come in and play," Brown said. "Right now, those guys have done their time and retired and gone on and it looks like it's time for me to go in and step up to the plate."

Brown and 2009 fourth-round draft pick Kaluka Maiava are the only linebackers on the roster behind the starters with NFL game experience. There are five undrafted free agents, too, raising concerns about the need for veteran help. So far, the Browns are resisting bringing in an older hand. Shurmur seems content to patiently wait to see Brown and some of the others develop.

"We've got a great [position] coach in coach Bill Davis," Brown said. "If we just apply what he's teaching us, we won't need anybody. The guys getting reps are doing real well. Brian Smith made the play for me to scoop it up and score. We've got Ben Jacobs making strides, Archie (Donald), a lot of guys making plays."

In the 4-3, the middle linebacker is the quarterback of the defense, the one who wears the helmet with the headset to hear the coach's calls. As Brown's responsibilities in the defense expand, he paid tribute to Mangini for making him a better player in their two years together.

"Coach Mangini's one of the smartest coaches I've ever been around, as far as recall, as far as remembering anything, far as just being a student of the game," Brown said. "He instilled that in all the players. I took the skill set from him and try to apply it to this defense.

"He taught me watching film, learning defenses, learning where you're supposed to be, learning keys. I did [grow under him]."

Another thing Brown is trying to grow is his Twitter account. He's an active Tweeter, under the name GoHam59.

"That's just a slang terminology to go hard every play, do everything to the max," he said of his Twitter name. "I'm not trying to make [Twitter] more than it's supposed to be. Josh [Cribbs] has about 75,000 [followers]. Joe [Haden] about 60,000. I've got about 3,000. It's getting better."

He picked up a couple hundred followers after his touchdown. A few more plays like that and he'll be over 10,000 in no time.

By Tony Grossi, The Plain Dealer

web page

__________________________________________________
He was our best interior linebacker in camp and also in preseason one year ago only to get cut in favor of Barton and Bowens. I was happy we got him back and even more happy to see him once again making plays for the Browns, this kid can ball.
Posted By: FL_Dawg Re: Line Backer debate - 08/16/11 11:48 PM
Thanks Mourg,

Quote:


Brown and 2009 fourth-round draft pick Kaluka Maiava are the only linebackers on the roster behind the starters with NFL game experience. There are five undrafted free agents, too, raising concerns about the need for veteran help. So far, the Browns are resisting bringing in an older hand. Shurmur seems content to patiently wait to see Brown and some of the others develop.

"We've got a great [position] coach in coach Bill Davis," Brown said. "If we just apply what he's teaching us, we won't need anybody. The guys getting reps are doing real well. Brian Smith made the play for me to scoop it up and score. We've got Ben Jacobs making strides, Archie (Donald), a lot of guys making plays."




I can't wait to see it on the field and I do like the youth movement here in regards to our backups over older vets.
Posted By: RageDawg Re: Line Backer debate - 08/17/11 01:01 AM
Quote:

"Coach Mangini's one of the smartest coaches I've ever been around, as far as recall, as far as remembering anything, far as just being a student of the game," Brown said. "He instilled that in all the players. I took the skill set from him and try to apply it to this defense.

"He taught me watching film, learning defenses, learning where you're supposed to be, learning keys. I did [grow under him]."




Nice to hear from the other perspective. Mangini may not have been the best coach for us. But he gave everything he had to make it work.
Posted By: Frenchy Re: Line Backer debate - 08/17/11 03:49 AM
Titus Brown is one of my favorites to follow on twitter.
Posted By: waterdawg Re: Line Backer debate - 08/17/11 04:30 AM
Lack of experience / lack of speed / lack of depth ... Lack of speed has and will continue to haunt us .. I have never been a DQ fan .. All conjecture on my part ..
Posted By: Line Judge Re: Line Backer debate - 08/17/11 09:59 AM
the coaches seem to be comfortable with DQ, Maiava, Gocong, Fujita and T. Brown as their top five.

that comfort is not shared by most fans.
Posted By: CapCity Dawg Re: Line Backer debate - 08/17/11 11:38 AM
Quote:

Quote:

Are we better off at LBer then we appeared to be on paper?




let's hope so.




We couldn't be worse off than we seem on paper. Not possible.
Posted By: HotBYoungTurk Re: Line Backer debate - 08/17/11 12:00 PM
I'm content with going into the season w/:

DQ
Maiva (who can play other LB spots)
Brown
Smith

It is what it is.. like Holmgren said.. Someone is gonna get thrown into the frying pan quick.. They are just gonna have to deal w/ it, and if they are a good player, they will hold their own and make a few plays from time to time. If not, then we have two 1st round picks next year to address the LB spots if necessary.
Posted By: DCDAWGFAN Re: Line Backer debate - 08/17/11 12:20 PM
Quote:

the coaches seem to be comfortable with DQ, Maiava, Gocong, Fujita and T. Brown as their top five.

that comfort is not shared by most fans.



I have a comfort level that this line up is ok for now. It's not great and it's not dominating but it's also not finished.... we are not in a position to go out and make a big play for a big name. It's sort of like the WR position, very young, some potential... so let's play out this season and see how the young guys do. Heck, because of DQ's missed time I sort of include him in the "young guys" category since it's a new system and he hasn't played in 2 years. I would not be suprised at all if LB and WR are two of our top positions to address in next years draft.
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Line Backer debate - 08/17/11 01:20 PM
I'll wait until I see more of Titus Brown than just a couple of plays against backups in a pre-season game before I go elevating him in my mind.
The touchdown is nothing. It's a nice play and all, but he's reaping the reward for the guy that actually made the play: Brian Smith. It also happened against the backups.

I have yet to see anything for me to get excited about him being part of our lineup, however.


Fujita should do well for us, but Gocong in a 4-3 should be a minor concern.... part of why we were able to get him is that he wasn't fitting all that well into Philly's 4-3 and he was always projected as much more of a 3-4 tweener.

DQ is DQ. He'll do fine, but he's gotta start making plays closer to the LOS. He fits the typical Cleveland LB mold in that he has a tendency to make most of his tackles far to far down field.

As for the rest of the ilk like Maiava and Smith?? Good grief, let's actually see them do something.
Posted By: FL_Dawg Re: Line Backer debate - 08/17/11 01:50 PM
Quote:

DQ is DQ. He'll do fine, but he's gotta start making plays closer to the LOS.




To me this is the single most telling factor with your LBing crew.

Are they making tackles at the LOS or are they making tackles down field? Coverage is secondary if they can't stop the run.

This is what I will be looking at from our LBers here in preseason and beyond.
Posted By: no_logo_required Re: Line Backer debate - 08/17/11 01:54 PM
I agree and will add that alot will have to do with how well our DEs disrupt the outside running lanes (I have more faith in Rubin and Taylor disrupting the inside)
Posted By: FL_Dawg Re: Line Backer debate - 08/17/11 02:19 PM
by Marty Gitlin - Smith, Malava take advantage of absences
Brian Smith and Kaluka Maiava are receiving first-team reps at OLB in the absence of Scott Fujita and Chris Gocong. Titus Brown, who has been impressive, is backing up MLB D'Qwell Jackson. Browns RapidReports
Posted By: THROW LONG Re: Line Backer debate - 08/17/11 02:41 PM
Quote:

As of right now I feel like the LB spot is one of the weakest on the Team..




That's ok to me, because I'm quite sure the lb spots were the weakest parts of the team in 1994, or was it 95, or the 93-4 season? I'm talking about the year they won 11 and were tied for 2nd in the afc in wins and 3rd or so in the NFL and

they last won a playoff game, (good rb's were necessary and te's to accomplish that) and that year they lost 3 times to pittsburgh, the last one in the playoffs... and the closest they came to beating that team was the first matchup

and in the first matchup they did more of long passes to stretch the field, so getting them back to getting over the hump of

dominating the Steelers, dominating the division and winning playoff games and winning 2nd round playoff games and even more would require them to
Throw Long!

Is Titus Brown one of the best 3 lb's on the team?
Not yet anyway.

Are the Lb's better than on paper? Everybody has a different paper, but from what you suggest?
Yes, they're better.
Posted By: FL_Dawg Re: Line Backer debate - 08/17/11 03:12 PM
Quote:


Is Titus Brown one of the best 3 lb's on the team?
Not yet anyway.

Are the Lb's better than on paper? Everybody has a different paper, but from what you suggest?
Yes, they're better.




Of coarse you can't come to a conclusion based on the body of work to this point, but It presents questions down the road.

As I stated Gocong is is still a mystery man and quite honestly that position is of the most concern to me.

On another note; I like the fact that Maiava and Smith are getting reps with the 1st team, because that's where they are best judged and the experience can be beneficial, because as much as the our starting LBers have been questioned (by the fans) I think that our depth is (has been) even more of a question mark and rightfully so, but we might not be in as bad a shape as some would have you believe.
Posted By: Damanshot Re: Line Backer debate - 08/17/11 03:21 PM
Regarding Titus Brown, I wonder if anyone else sees the similarity between him and Eddie Johnson.. He reminds me a little of Eddie..

We should be so lucky to have found another Eddie Johnson...
Posted By: FL_Dawg Re: Line Backer debate - 08/17/11 03:26 PM
Quote:

Regarding Titus Brown, I wonder if anyone else sees the similarity between him and Eddie Johnson.. He reminds me a little of Eddie..

We should be so lucky to have found another Eddie Johnson...




Eddie was so underrated, but yeah Brown seems to have the same demeanor.
Posted By: FL_Dawg Re: Line Backer debate - 08/17/11 03:34 PM
Quote:


dominating the Steelers, dominating the division and winning playoff games and winning 2nd round playoff games and even more would require them to
Throw Long!




Shameless hussy

Speaking of the Steelers and Harrison to be specific, who was an UDFA LBer.

Wouldn't it be cool if we could do the same.

Stay tuned
Posted By: YTownBrownsFan Re: Line Backer debate - 08/17/11 03:35 PM
Personally I would start Brown.

I, obviously, don't think much of Jackson, and would like to start working on replacing him this year. Even in the 1st game, Jackson never attacked the line like a MLB should. He kinda hung back, and made his tackles 5-8 yards downfield ..... like usual.

He simply is not, and never will be a game changer of any kind. He might be somewhat competent ..... but the unemployed football player ranks are filled with "competent" players. I expect that Jackson can make the ordinary plays. IMHO however, this is all he is capable of.
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Line Backer debate - 08/17/11 03:41 PM
::shaking my head::

I'm wondering just why it is - aside from some broadcasters pimping on-air him during a preseason game - that Titus Brown is getting thought of so highly.

What have I missed? What has he done to make people think that he's anything more than a backup??


I'm firmly of the belief - until I see more against better competition - that all of this hype is just that, hype.
Posted By: YTownBrownsFan Re: Line Backer debate - 08/17/11 03:41 PM
I think that he's a bright guy, and has the physical tools.

Plus, could he really be worse than Jackson?
Posted By: Browns Lifer Re: Line Backer debate - 08/17/11 03:43 PM
We don't know. We haven't seen Jackson play in this scheme yet. Brown wasn't able to unseat DQ when we played a base 3-4. What makes you think he's better than DQ now?
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Line Backer debate - 08/17/11 03:43 PM
Two Words: Kevin Bentley.

it can ALWAYS be worse.
Posted By: FL_Dawg Re: Line Backer debate - 08/17/11 03:44 PM
Quote:

Personally I would start Brown.

I, obviously, don't think much of Jackson, and would like to start working on replacing him this year. Even in the 1st game, Jackson never attacked the line like a MLB should. He kinda hung back, and made his tackles 5-8 yards downfield ..... like usual.

He simply is not, and never will be a game changer of any kind. He might be somewhat competent ..... but the unemployed football player ranks are filled with "competent" players. I expect that Jackson can make the ordinary plays. IMHO however, this is all he is capable of.




I don't think we have seen enough to come to a conclusion, but I like the way Coach Shurmur referred to Brown (and Smith for that matter) as being a 'heavy handed' guys I think that might be the way he describes a thump'er
Posted By: no_logo_required Re: Line Backer debate - 08/17/11 03:46 PM
Quote:

We don't know. We haven't seen Jackson play in this scheme yet. Brown wasn't able to unseat DQ when we played a base 3-4. What makes you think he's better than DQ now?




also, the coaches don't think he's better than DQ because he is backing him up.

and the coaches don't think he is good enough to try out at OLB with the other injuries (instead giving those opportunities to others).

i hope all the August hype on Titus is real because it would be nice, but something doesn't quite smell right on this one (a guy who hasn't started for 3 different regimes and who isn't supposed to start for this one and is getting 'held down' as a backup even with a rash of injuries at a similar position).
Posted By: Divot Re: Line Backer debate - 08/17/11 03:47 PM
In a word, yes. And none of our LBs are great.

LBs will come next year. We have a very good OL, we addressed DL in the last draft, and hopefully we can add a Pro Bowl caliber LB in the next draft. I think we have a good foundation, and just need to add a few key parts - stud LB.
Posted By: cle23 Re: Line Backer debate - 08/17/11 03:57 PM
Quote:

In a word, yes. And none of our LBs are great.

LBs will come next year. We have a very good OL, we addressed DL in the last draft, and hopefully we can add a Pro Bowl caliber LB in the next draft. I think we have a good foundation, and just need to add a few key parts - stud LB.




Vontaze Burfict.
Posted By: FL_Dawg Re: Line Backer debate - 08/17/11 04:00 PM
Quote:


also, the coaches don't think he's better than DQ because he is backing him up.




There does appear to be competition there and that's always a good thing I think.

Naturally Brown can not play two positions on the 2nd unit, so others must fill that position and I just don't think his skill set lends it self to the WIL position.
Posted By: no_logo_required Re: Line Backer debate - 08/17/11 04:02 PM
i was just saying that if the staff truly thought he was our 4th best LB, then I think they would let him have his chance to take Fujita's place while he is out (if he is more SOLB - or Gocong's place at WOLB if they like him better there).

the fact that he's still playing 2nd unit despite those 2 injuries, leaves me to believe that this is mostly preseason hype.
Posted By: FL_Dawg Re: Line Backer debate - 08/17/11 04:10 PM
Quote:

i was just saying that if the staff truly thought he was our 4th best LB, then I think they would let him have his chance to take Fujita's place while he is out (if he is more SOLB - or Gocong's place at WOLB if they like him better there).

the fact that he's still playing 2nd unit despite those 2 injuries, leaves me to believe that this is mostly preseason hype.




Fair enough. It's just that some of the hype seems to be coming out of the Browns themselves.
Posted By: HotBYoungTurk Re: Line Backer debate - 08/17/11 04:10 PM
Quote:


Vontaze Burfict.




I want him too.. but no so sure.. Heard he recently just punched one of his teammates... link :smh:

there are a few other good MLB's out there though.. Kuechly @ Boston Coll., Manti Te'o @ Notre Dame, and Courtney Upshaw @ Alabama.. Heckert will have his options if he avoids Burfict.
Posted By: FL_Dawg Re: Line Backer debate - 08/17/11 04:22 PM
Quote:

Quote:


Vontaze Burfict.




I want him too.. but no so sure.. Heard he recently just punched one of his teammates... link :smh:

there are a few other good MLB's out there though.. Kuechly @ Boston Coll., Manti Te'o @ Notre Dame, and Courtney Upshaw @ Alabama.. Heckert will have his options if he avoids Burfict.




It's a possibility that we could draft a MLB in the 1st round with one of our two 1st round selections, but I think it's more possible that we could draft an OLBer and the guy I like is not a house hold name like some, but I really Like Travis Lewis from Oklahoma for the WIL position.
Posted By: cle23 Re: Line Backer debate - 08/17/11 04:26 PM
Quote:

Quote:


Vontaze Burfict.




I want him too.. but no so sure.. Heard he recently just punched one of his teammates... link :smh:

there are a few other good MLB's out there though.. Kuechly @ Boston Coll., Manti Te'o @ Notre Dame, and Courtney Upshaw @ Alabama.. Heckert will have his options if he avoids Burfict.




I would definitely take Te'o as well. I just think Te'o will get drafted higher and was hoping for Burfict later. And I'm not too worried from what was said in that article.
Posted By: jeepnstein Re: Line Backer debate - 08/17/11 04:33 PM
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


Vontaze Burfict.




I want him too.. but no so sure.. Heard he recently just punched one of his teammates... link :smh:

there are a few other good MLB's out there though.. Kuechly @ Boston Coll., Manti Te'o @ Notre Dame, and Courtney Upshaw @ Alabama.. Heckert will have his options if he avoids Burfict.




I would definitely take Te'o as well. I just think Te'o will get drafted higher and was hoping for Burfict later. And I'm not too worried from what was said in that article.




One of my favorite linebackers from years past is a guy with no front teeth and a reputation for random violence. Even among his own team mates he was a bit off his rocker at times. It would take more than a one punch knock out to make me want to take a pass on this guy. It got reported because the other guy was "laying on the ground unresponsive" after the punch.

All he needs is some anger management classes, or a handler.
Posted By: Mourgrym Re: Line Backer debate - 08/17/11 04:35 PM
I really loved what I saw from Titus in camp last year and in preseason he was terrific. I am pretty sure he led the team in tackles during preseason by a pretty good margin (going on memory). Just seems like he was the one guy on defense not named Benard that really wanted it.

I know it was only in preseason but he outplayed all of the interior linebackers and it wasn't even close. Also his tackles always seem to be made at or near the line of scrimmage. Those plays to me show real instinct.

As for his fumble return for a TD, the only thing that proves is he is smart enough to pick up a football and run in the right direction lol
Posted By: FL_Dawg Re: Line Backer debate - 08/17/11 09:19 PM
Quote:


Scott Fujita

(On Titus Brown and depth at linebacker)- “Titus (Brown) is just a football player. He is an old school kind of junkyard dog. He’s heavy handed. He is just a ball player and I think the more opportunities he has to get on the field, the better he is going to get. Some of the young guys who came in undrafted, some of them are really sharp guys like Brian Smith.
These are good young players who I think are going to turn out well in this league. Obviously, experience wise it doesn’t appear there is a lot of depth, but these guys are coming along fast and that’s without an offseason program and really just two weeks of work with these coaches.”




Not the Junkyard dog jinx
Posted By: YTownBrownsFan Re: Line Backer debate - 08/17/11 09:39 PM
That was a mad dog in a meat market.

Totally different. Junkyard dogs are just protecting their turf, with everything they have.
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Line Backer debate - 08/17/11 10:01 PM
Quote:

Quote:


Scott Fujita

(On Titus Brown and depth at linebacker)- “Titus (Brown) is just a football player. He is an old school kind of junkyard dog. He’s heavy handed. He is just a ball player and I think the more opportunities he has to get on the field, the better he is going to get. Some of the young guys who came in undrafted, some of them are really sharp guys like Brian Smith.
These are good young players who I think are going to turn out well in this league. Obviously, experience wise it doesn’t appear there is a lot of depth, but these guys are coming along fast and that’s without an offseason program and really just two weeks of work with these coaches.”




Not the Junkyard dog jinx





That quote by Fujita totally smells of a pre-programmed P.R. response.
The coach calls Brown "heavy handed", now a player is. Same player is also pimping the other current media-"darling" LB, B.Smith.... and then it finishes with a good pep talk about how these no-names are really "coming along".

Snow job.
Posted By: HotBYoungTurk Re: Line Backer debate - 08/17/11 11:44 PM
Quote:


Snow job.




the entire offseason normally is.
Posted By: ddubia Re: Line Backer debate - 08/18/11 01:03 AM
Quote:

Snow job.




Agreed.

However, it does no player any harm to hear encouraging words from his coaches and teammates. It doesn't take a lot of effort from anyone to build someone up in order to help them fight through difficulties and set their goals squarely on success.

It works or it doesn't but rarely could it hurt. Unless a player hears those encouraging words and then sits back and rests on those laurels. If that's the case then dude simply doesn't have what it takes anyway.

The only ones it hurts is us fans who desperately want to hear the naked truth about our roster and may not get that when this is happening. We hear this, get excited for the player and then he gets cut and we wonder, "What the heck?!"

Small price for us to pay as well. It's the games that count and it's the games as our reason for being here.
Posted By: Damanshot Re: Line Backer debate - 08/18/11 11:08 AM
I don't know Purp.. Fujita is articulate, smart and it doesn't strike me as a party line kinda guy.

Also,, I doubt that Fujita wants to throw a current teammate under a bus either.
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Line Backer debate - 08/18/11 01:55 PM
Quote:

I don't know Purp.. Fujita is articulate, smart and it doesn't strike me as a party line kinda guy.

Also,, I doubt that Fujita wants to throw a current teammate under a bus either.




???

Who's he throwing under the bus?
Do you really believe that was just off-the-cuff talk from him? Those are sound bites, man. When you keep hearing the same phrases from multiple people, it's programmed.
Posted By: DCDAWGFAN Re: Line Backer debate - 08/18/11 03:26 PM
Quote:

That quote by Fujita totally smells of a pre-programmed P.R. response.
The coach calls Brown "heavy handed", now a player is. Same player is also pimping the other current media-"darling" LB, B.Smith.... and then it finishes with a good pep talk about how these no-names are really "coming along".

Snow job.



Could be. the roster is pretty much set except for some tweaking at the bottom of the depth chart... so what are these guys supposed to say about their teammates? "They are young and inexperienced, but to make it worse, their technique is awful, they are slow and they take plays off."

No, you built up your teammates every chance you get and hope they live up to it.. if they don't they won't be here long... but if they are on the roster with you, you pump them up.

And then there is always the chance that he means it.
Posted By: Damanshot Re: Line Backer debate - 08/18/11 04:35 PM
Quote:

Quote:

I don't know Purp.. Fujita is articulate, smart and it doesn't strike me as a party line kinda guy.

Also,, I doubt that Fujita wants to throw a current teammate under a bus either.




???

Who's he throwing under the bus?
Do you really believe that was just off-the-cuff talk from him? Those are sound bites, man. When you keep hearing the same phrases from multiple people, it's programmed.




Well, if he says that Brown sucks,, wouldn't that be throwing him under the bus....Try and keep up will ya
Posted By: DCDAWGFAN Re: Line Backer debate - 08/18/11 07:42 PM
maybe it seems like programmed sound bytes because this is what the players are saying amongst themselves when they talk about the group?

Or do you honestly think that a coach or PR guy sits down with the players and says, "Look, we all know this guy isn't very good but this is what I want you to say when asked about it..... "?
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Line Backer debate - 08/18/11 08:21 PM
I do, in fact, think that they are coached on certain talking points.
Posted By: no_logo_required Re: Line Backer debate - 08/18/11 08:23 PM
with the players, no. with a specific leader on the team defense who is also angling for a life after football (the guys who are union rep's tend to be looking at NFL as a lifetime gig). well, maybe. maybe not.

either it's being programmed in on the field (those same phrases used by coaches about the guy constantly and Fujita picking it up), or it's being done on purpose.

most likey IMO is that Fujita is being used as a bit of a player-coach where he's in more of the coaching meetings than most of the players (common practice for the veteran leaders) and these are the phrases that get used.

all that really matters is if Titus shows these attributes on Sundays. hopefully he does.
Posted By: Damanshot Re: Line Backer debate - 08/18/11 09:25 PM
Quote:

I do, in fact, think that they are coached on certain talking points.




Not that it matters, but I just don't see it.. Fujita just comes across as a guy that's smart enough to say nothing, rather than say something he doesn't believe..

In short, I think you are reading too much into it.. but like I said, it really doesn't matter either way.
Posted By: Jester Re: Line Backer debate - 08/25/11 03:06 AM
I know this isn't a draft forum but we are talking Lb's. Thought I would post this as a primer for the college season.

2012 DRAFT OLB PROFILES

*Note players not necessarily listed in order of grade

4-3 LBs

Zach Brown, North Carolina, 6-2, 230, 4.35, SR… Fast, athletic WLB who will finally get a chance to be a full-time starter this fall after backing up Quan Sturdivant and Bruce Carter the past couple of seasons; still finished second on the team with 72 tackles last fall; has uncommon speed for a LB; indeed is a former state sprint champion who holds the UNC school record for the indoor 60-meter dash with a 6.72 clocking; not always that instinctive but can outrun most mistakes; has exceptional lateral range, but isn’t that aggressive or instinctive attacking the line of scrimmage; can run with just about any receiver in college football and has decent ball skills; picked off three passes last fall; not all that big at barely 230 pounds and can be engulfed at the point of attack by big offensive lineman, but is a physical tackler; is a also a dynamic special teamer.

Travis Lewis, Oklahoma, 6-2, 235, 4.40, SR ... Super productive WLB who already has piled up 360 career tackles; not all that big or physical, but is a weight-room warrior with good strength and really explodes into tackles; also is a tremendous athlete with sub-4.4 speed, although tends to be somewhat stiff in the hips and doesn’t change direction all that quickly; has good instincts and exceptional acceleration and range; can also run with most backs and TEs and as a former star high school RB has good ball skills for a LB; indeed, already shares OU career record for picks for a LB with 8; can get into the backfield, but is not a natural blitzer; also struggles to get off blocks when engaged at times; will miss the first month of the season with a broken foot.

Lavonte David, Nebraska, 6-1, 225, 4.62, SR … Was a very good junior college LB before blowing up at Nebraska last fall where he posted a team-record 152 tackles; safety-sized at a bulked up 225 pounds, but has a thick lower body and plays bigger; also has good though not great speed with a projected 40-clocking in the 4.6 range, but again plays faster; is a good athlete with fluid hips; is also a real student of the game and is very instinctive; reads the play well and is very quick and explosive; can beat the offense to the point of attack, but can also get off blocks when engaged; has shortish arms, but is a very good tackler who drives through ball-carriers; can also blitz and make plays in coverage; had 6 sacks last fall, while breaking up 10 passes; can turn and run with most backs and TEs, but doesn’t have the greatest hands himself.

Keenan Robinson, Texas, 6-2, 235, 4.65, SR … Active, athletic backer with sideline-to-sideline range; versatile player who will line up on the strongside this fall, but could also play in the middle or on the strongside; aggressive run defender with a quick first step, good instincts and the ability to change direction on the fly; not huge by NFL standard, but has good functional strength and is a physical tackler who had 113 tackles in 2010; can get into the backfield, but is not necessarily a natural pass rusher; also covers a lot of ground in coverage and had a couple of picks last fall, but isn’t quite as instinctive when playing in reverse; excellent all-around athlete was a state-level triple jumper in high school where he also played some WR; also a good student and character player.

Sean Spence, Miami, 6-0, 225, 4.58, SR ... Disruptive WLB with first-round physical skill, but is somewhat undersized; one of the best all-around athletes on a roster full of good all-around athletes; has excellent instincts and a fine motor, as well has the speed, quickness and agility of a safety; not all that big at barely 225 pounds, but still packs a wallop when he finds the ball as he explodes through ball-carriers; isn’t going to stack and shed at the point of attack because of his size, but is tough to block because he is so active; specializes in getting into the backfield before a play has a chance to develop and had 13.5 other tackles for loss last season; not a natural pass rusher, though, but did have 2.5 sacks last fall; has great balance, can change direction on the fly, as well as flip his hips in transition out of his back-peddle; solid in coverage, but has the hands of a LB; missed three games in 2009 with a knee injury.

Danny Trevathan, Kentucky, 6-1, 230, 4.55, SR … Fast, athletic WLB with excellent range and instincts; solid wrap-up tackler had a 144 stops in 2010 including 13 for loss; also enters the season with an active streak of 9 games with double-digit tackles; had another 80 tackles in 2009 when he played through a broken wrist; weight room warrior isn’t all that big, but has bulked up to 230 pounds; does a nice job getting off blocks; has good quickness and excellent closing speed; has reportedly run the 40 in under 4.50 seconds; still more of a sideline-to-sideline type; not a natural blitzer and doesn’t make a lot of plays in coverage, although he can run with most backs and TEs; character player who goes hard all the time.

Nigel Bradham, Florida State, 6-2, 240, 4.65, SR … Consistent, versatile veteran WLB with 26 career starts; athletic player with good speed and better quickness; has good instincts with sideline-to-sideline range; solid wrap-up tackler led the team with 98 tackles last fall, although he doesn’t deliver many big hits; also not known as a natural blitzer, but did have 5 sacks last fall; covers a lot of ground in coverage and can run with most backs and TEs, but doesn’t have great ball skills and has only one career pick and 5 pass breakups; has a thick lower base, but isn’t that physical at the point of attack and struggles getting off blocks.

Tank Carder, Texas Christian, 6-2, 230, 4.67, SR … Athletic WLB leads the aggressive Horned Frogs defense; not overly big, but is an excellent tackler who rarely misses a stop; also very quick and instinctive with sideline-to-sideline range; can make plays in both directions; had 3.5 sacks and 6 other tackles for loss last fall; also one of the better coverage LBs in college football has 15 career pass break-ups, although he doesn’t necessarily have great hands; will struggle at times to hold the point of attack but generally does a good job shedding blocks; has an outstanding work ethic and should be a good special teamer at the next level; health is an issue, though, as he had problems with a shoulder in the past; also suffered multiple serious injuries including a punctured diaphragm, collapsed lung, and broken bones in his back in a car accident as a youth and wasn’t allowed to play high school football; fearless kid, though, who was a national BMX bike champion in elementary school.

Tyler Nielsen, Iowa, 6-4, 235, 4.60, SR … Prototype SSLB played in only 8 games last fall after suffering a broken vertebrae in his neck that will have to be checked at this spring; tall OLB with long arms can play over the TE and does a nice job fighting off blocks at the point of attack; smart, instinctive with good speed and range, although he’s a little stiff and doesn’t change direction all that well; not a natural blitzer, but effective in both zone and man coverage; had 42 tackles last fall with an interception and 4 other pass breakups.

Greg Williams, Pittsburgh, 6-3, 240, 4.75, SR … Came to Pitt as a heralded RB recruit – he’s a cousin of former star NFL RB Edge James - but made a successful transition to OLB; has started 32 games; not flashy, but a solid all-around player who can get into the backfield as well as make plays in coverage; lacks great range, but reads the field well, is quick off the snap and has good strength at the point of attack; opportunistic type who has three career TD returns in his career; had 64 tackles in 2010.

Ronnie Thornton, Southern Mississippi, 6-2, 230, 4.65, SR … Athletic WLB with good quickness, instincts and range; three-year starter had 61 tackles in 2010 after posting 114 the previous year; excellent athlete with sub-4.7 speed; has sideline-to-sideline range, but isn’t a natural pass rusher; also has yet to make many plays in coverage.

Max Gruber, Pittsburgh, 6-2, 230, SR … Tough, smart player who can play all three LB slots; not all that big or fast, but is very instinctive; understands the scheme and does a nice job lining up the defense; physical tackler had 170 tackles the past couple of seasons, although he doesn’t make a lot of plays upfield; can contribute in coverage and on special teams.

Miles Burris, San Diego State, 6-2, 235, 4.75 …. Hard-nosed SSLB who always seems to be around the ball; emerged as a disruptive force in 2010 when he had 20 tackles for loss, including 9.5 sacks; not overly big or fast, but has a quick first step, good instincts and is relentless into the backfield; not very agile and is a non-factor in coverage; character player who could also figure at ILB.

Ryan Baker, LSU, 6-0, 230, 4.77, SR … Versatile veteran LB will shift inside this fall after leading the team with 87 tackles as a WLB last season; tough player missed only one game after breaking his jaw in a pres-season practice last fall and then played in four games with his jaw wired shut; smart, instinctive player reads the play well and gets to the ball in a hurry; also a very physical tackler, but lacks great measurables; isn’t all that big at just under 6-0 and barely 230 pounds; has good quickness, but has limited speed in space; sees gaps in blocking and does and gets into backfield on a regular basis; had 11 tackles for loss last fall, including 7 sacks; has limited range in coverage; slightly older player will turn 25 during his first year in the pros.

Brian Hendricks, Wyoming, 6-1, 230, 4.75, SR … Active WLB who is always around the ball; isn’t all that big or fast, but has excellent instincts; solid wrap up tackler who had just under 200 tackles the past couple of seasons, but hasn’t made many plays in the backfield or in coverage; good all-around athlete who was a star RB in high school; also had a career record of 102-1 as a prep wrestler and was a medalist in state 400M; good student and character player who was a team captain as a junior; suffered a knee injury in high school and also missed a couple of games in 2009 with a minor knee injury.

Brandon Maye, Mississippi State, 6-2, 230, 4.70 … Looked like a potential early pick when he posted 103 tackles and forced 5 fumbles as a sophomore at Clemson in 2009, but slumped to just 43 stops last season and ended up transferring; not all that big or physical and can be engulfed at the point of attack, but has good speed and range; hard hitter but will play out of control at times; also not that instinctive in coverage.

Paul Vassallo, Arizona, 6-2, 240, SR … Former junior college All-American made an easy adjustment to D1A football last fall when he recorded 100-plus tackles, including 8 for loss; has good size, quickness and range; uses hands well to fend off blockers and can hold the point of attack; also has good instincts and plays hard; not a natural blitzer, though, doesn’t make many plays in coverage; originally walked on and red-shirted a year at Nevada; missed much of his sophomore year at the JC level with a concussion.

Demario Davis, Arkansas State, 6-2, 240, 4.60, SR … Former high school WR brings nice size/speed measurable to OLB; runs well and has sideline-to-sideline range; also quick with good balance and the ability to change direction on the fly; also a physical tackler who made over 140 stops the past couple of years, but doesn’t get into the backfield that often; not all that instinctive, though, and while he has good hands and the speed to stay with most backs and TEs, doesn’t make a lot of plays in coverage.

Curnelius Arnick, Tulsa, 6-0, 230, 4.80, SR … Underrated backer will play in the middle this fall, but projects to WLB at the next level; not all that big or fast, but is quick and instinctive; good tackler had 115 stops last fall including 5 sacks; also a very coverage LB who reads the play well and has good hands; picked off 4 passes last fall and broke up four others;

Alex Hoffman-Ellis, Washington State, 6-0, 245, 4.55, SR … Interesting prospect who has played only three years of football, but is a really good athlete who can run to the ball and brings an attitude when he finds it; actually was a troubled teen who never played any sports at all until his senior year in high school, but has since played basketball in the Maccabi games and was a track star (long jump, triple jump and javelin) in his one year at a junior college; still learning the technical aspects of the position and can be overwhelmed at the point of attack, but has great range and can outrun mistakes; had 81 tackles last fall including a couple of sacks; also picked off two passes and broke up four others.


http://www.gbnreport.com/2012olbprofiles.html
Posted By: Jester Re: Line Backer debate - 08/25/11 03:11 AM
2012 DRAFT PREVIEW: MLBs

Overview: At least on paper, this year could be one of the best in a while for MLBs. And what's on paper is a cadre of outstanding junior mike backers including Vontaze Burfict of Arizona State, Luke Kuechly of Boston College, Notre Dame's Manti Te'O, Shane Skov of Stanford and Dont'a Hightower of Alabama, each of whom gets plenty of first-round mention whenever they are discussed in terms of the draft. First things first, though, and of course, more than one will have to leave school early and turn pro this winter for the conversation to continue and at least Te'O and Skov play at programs in which players tend to stay in school until their eligibility is up. As well, as talented as this group is collectively - they combined for 560 tackles in 2010 including a remarkable 183 by Kuechly - there are also major questions. Burfict, for example, has an elite size-speed combination and hits a ton, but is undisciplined both on and off the field. Meanwhile, Kuechly has brought the concept of tackling-machine to a new level, but actually isn't all that big or fast for an NFL MLB. For his part, Te'O, another big hitter with excellent, is something of a cult figure among Irish faithful, but isn't all that instinctive or agile. Same story for the Tide's Hightower who more than one scout who rates as potentially the most over-rated prospect in the entire draft. Indeed, it won't be a shock when all is said ond done that Hightower ends up being graded as a 3-4 OLB. In fact, many scouts consider Hightower's Alabama teammate Courtney Upshaw to be a better MLB prospect, however, the latter will also likely get a first look as a pass-rushing OLB.

However, even if all 5 juniors opt to stay in school, or fall flat on their collective faces prior to the draft, MLB likely will still be a relatively deep position for 2012 as there appears to be an inordinate number of solid senior MLBs out there including under-rated James-Michael Johnson of Nevada, Emmanual Acho of Texas, Korey Williams of Southern Miss, Chris Galippo of USC, Arkansas' Jerry Franklin, Chris Marve of Vanderbilt, and Carmen Messina of New Mexico. And the list goes on. Indeed, there is some real depth at the position. There are also a couple of potential sleepers in Noah Keller of Ohio, who had 155 tackles in 2009, but missed most of last season with a foot injury, and Barquell Rivers of Virginia Tech who had 96 tackles two years ago, but played in only one game because of a ruptured quadriceps tendon.

Top 20 MLB Prospects
#Player H/W School CL

1 Vontaze Burfict 6-3, 252 Arizona State JR
2 Luke Kuechly 6-2, 235 Boston College JR
3 Manti Te'O 6-2, 255 Notre Dame JR
4 Shane Skov 6-2, 245 Stanford JR
5 Dont'a Hightower 6-2, 240 California SR
6 James-Michael Johnson 6-1, 240 Nevada SR
7 Emmanual Acho 6-2, 245Texas SR
8 Korey Williams 6-2, 245 Southern Mississippi SR
9 Jerry Franklin 6-0, 245 Arkansas SR
10 Chris Marve 6-2, 235 Vanderbilt SR
11 Chris Galippo 6-2, 250 Southern California SR
12 Carmen Messina 6-2, 240New Mexico SR
13 Audie Cole 6-2, 240North Carolina StateSR
14 D. J. Holt 6-0, 255 California SR
15 Bobby Wagner 6-0, 235Utah State SR
16 J.K. Schaffer 6-1, 235 Cincinnati SR
17 Will Ebner 6-1, 230 Missouri SR
18 Garrick Williams 6-2, 235 Texas A&M SR
19 Ronny Snead 6-2, 230 Kentucky SR
20 Adrien Cole 6-1, 230 Louisiana Tech SR
Posted By: Jester Re: Line Backer debate - 08/25/11 03:13 AM
If you ar curious about 3-4 backers then click the OLB link and scroll down because they do review 3-4 lb's but I didn't include them because we play a 4-3.
Posted By: lampdogg Re: Line Backer debate - 08/25/11 03:37 AM
Quote:

I do, in fact, think that they are coached on certain talking points.




So do I.
I've seen it done in in hockey, by very skilled coaches - the coaches and captains/assistant captains sometimes parrot each in the media. for example a coach will encourage team leaders (behind closed doors) to pump up younger ones through the press and even in-house. I've seen it happen numerous times.
Posted By: FL_Dawg Re: Line Backer debate - 08/25/11 04:08 AM
I think this next Draft is going to be a very good one for the LBer position.

Good for us too ... I hope.
Just my opinion here, but I think more in terms of OLBer with a high draft selection.

With DQ and Brown possibilities for the now as well as in the near future at the Mike. I don't think we go here with a top Draft pick.

Fujita will be okay we hope for a couple of seasons, but it's hard to project him much further I think.

And who's the WIL (now and in the future)?

Quote:


[Travis Lewis]although tends to be somewhat stiff in the hips and doesn’t change direction all that quickly;




This statement is somewhat perplexing (if) true, because those whom are stiff in the hips normally are not too good in coverage ... And I know that this is not the case with Lewis, because he excels in coverage.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Line Backer debate - 08/25/11 08:46 AM
Vontaze Burfict would be "perfict".


I want him.



Posted By: Line Judge Re: Line Backer debate - 08/25/11 09:01 AM
as of today the depth chart looks like this:

SLB: Fujita, B. Smith, Jacobs, Tarver

MLB: Jackson, T. Brown, Octavien

WLB: Gocong, Maiava, Gordon, Donald

the FO appears to be confident in the top two at each position.

They better be or they need to do something by the 2nd week of the season. I'm not as confident as they are and it appears that none of us here are awe inspired by the talent level of the LB depth chart.

We will see by the 2nd week of the season if all the hype is nothing but a snow job.
Posted By: Jester Re: Line Backer debate - 08/25/11 12:37 PM
I can certainly see us taking 2 Lb's in our top 3 picks. DEpending on draft position we could get another stud player (DE Coples or WR Jeffries). What a deep draft and for a change deep at positions where we are in need. AND we have the extra 1st round pick. Looks like things are finally falling our way.
Posted By: WSU Willie Re: Line Backer debate - 08/25/11 02:15 PM
j/c

I was talking last night with a good friend - and fellow Browns fan - and we were discussing DQ.

I commented that I thought DQ looks too small to be effective in the middle. Maybe that is because he WAS to small to be in the middle in the 3-4.

But now in the 4-3, he STILL looks/seems-to-play too small.

We agree that he has excellent speed and pursuit and when he gets to the ball, the carrier goes down.

I have high hopes for DQ in this defense...we NEED him to be a good LB.

I am curious what others think about DQ in the middle vs DQ on the outside. I'm no Xs & Os expert but I continue to beleive that he does not have enough caboose to play in the middle - even in the 4-3.

Opinions?
Posted By: no_logo_required Re: Line Backer debate - 08/25/11 02:19 PM
his lack of size will matter less if Rubin and Taylor do their jobs. if those two constantly need double teams (so the chip-blockers cannot disengage), then DQ will be able to roam free to the ball carrier. if those two can be handled with 1 blocker or a quick-chip, then DQ is going to have OGs in his face and he hasn't shown much ability to take on those blockers.

now, he will swim under those blocks from time to time or just plain out-run them, but we need a more consistent force. but, I think it's more on the DTs than DQ to provide it this season.
Posted By: cle23 Re: Line Backer debate - 08/25/11 02:27 PM
Quote:

I can certainly see us taking 2 Lb's in our top 3 picks. DEpending on draft position we could get another stud player (DE Coples or WR Jeffries). What a deep draft and for a change deep at positions where we are in need. AND we have the extra 1st round pick. Looks like things are finally falling our way.




I see us taking one LB early, and one in the 4th or 5th. We need another starter, but if we get Te'o or Burfict, you then move Jacson to OLB with Fujita. Give the other LB pick a year or 2 to develop or backup.

I wouldn't want 2 rookie starters at LB, though it could be done if 2 very good players are available.
Posted By: FL_Dawg Re: Line Backer debate - 08/25/11 03:22 PM
Quote:

j/c

I was talking last night with a good friend - and fellow Browns fan - and we were discussing DQ.

I commented that I thought DQ looks too small to be effective in the middle. Maybe that is because he WAS to small to be in the middle in the 3-4.

But now in the 4-3, he STILL looks/seems-to-play too small.

We agree that he has excellent speed and pursuit and when he gets to the ball, the carrier goes down.

I have high hopes for DQ in this defense...we NEED him to be a good LB.

I am curious what others think about DQ in the middle vs DQ on the outside. I'm no Xs & Os expert but I continue to beleive that he does not have enough caboose to play in the middle - even in the 4-3.

Opinions?




I'm with Fujita on my opinion of DQ in this defense. The MIKE is the least of my worries from the LBer group.

Fujita is solid at the SAM, but depth is a problem as well as his years in the League.

Maiava and or Gocong may or may not be serviceable at the WIL, but I don't see them as game changer types.
Maiava can play in the nickle defense I think, still that position along with FS are our biggest question marks and then an apparent lack of depth at DT and OLB.

We don't know how DQ would perform at the WIL, because we have yet to see him line up there and I see no signs to think that they will, but I would be comfortable with Titus Brown at the MIKE, so I have tried to imagine DQ moving to the WIL, but nothing tells me that we will see this at this time.
Posted By: Damanshot Re: Line Backer debate - 08/25/11 04:19 PM
Quote:

j/c

I was talking last night with a good friend - and fellow Browns fan - and we were discussing DQ.

I commented that I thought DQ looks too small to be effective in the middle. Maybe that is because he WAS to small to be in the middle in the 3-4.

But now in the 4-3, he STILL looks/seems-to-play too small.

We agree that he has excellent speed and pursuit and when he gets to the ball, the carrier goes down.

I have high hopes for DQ in this defense...we NEED him to be a good LB.

I am curious what others think about DQ in the middle vs DQ on the outside. I'm no Xs & Os expert but I continue to beleive that he does not have enough caboose to play in the middle - even in the 4-3.

Opinions?




Does 1 inch in height and 10 lbs mean that much.. cause if they don't, then add that 1 inch and those 10 lbs and you have Ray Lewis..

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/People/Players/Roster/Ray_Lewis.aspx

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/roster/D'Qwell-Jackson/f8eefd84-1922-43d0-8735-d90d06f8311b

DQ has the size,, he has the speed... is he Ray Lewis,, I don't believe he is. But size isn't the reason that he's not Lewis.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Line Backer debate - 08/25/11 07:53 PM
BUT does he have Ray's 'Killer' instincts?
Posted By: no_logo_required Re: Line Backer debate - 08/25/11 08:01 PM
Quote:

BUT does he have Ray's 'Killer' instincts?




are you referring to his ability to 'cut'?
or his ability to 'knife' through the blocking?
Posted By: Damanshot Re: Line Backer debate - 08/25/11 08:03 PM
Quote:

BUT does he have Ray's 'Killer' instincts?




No, I really don't think he does, nor have I seen him demonstrate any of Rays leadership ability.

But that's not what was discussed.. The discussion was about physical size and they are damn near identical.
Posted By: Jester Re: Line Backer debate - 08/25/11 08:09 PM
Quote:

Quote:

I can certainly see us taking 2 Lb's in our top 3 picks. DEpending on draft position we could get another stud player (DE Coples or WR Jeffries). What a deep draft and for a change deep at positions where we are in need. AND we have the extra 1st round pick. Looks like things are finally falling our way.




I see us taking one LB early, and one in the 4th or 5th. We need another starter, but if we get Te'o or Burfict, you then move Jacson to OLB with Fujita. Give the other LB pick a year or 2 to develop or backup.

I wouldn't want 2 rookie starters at LB, though it could be done if 2 very good players are available.





Doesn't that seem like TH's MO? 2starting Db's with Ward and Haden last year. 2 Starting Dlinemen with Taylor and Sheard this year. 2 starting Lb's next year with ...
Posted By: RageDawg Re: Line Backer debate - 08/25/11 08:10 PM
Quote:

BUT does he have Ray's 'Killer' instincts?




No and thats the problem. Ray Lewis has the same type of strengths and weakness physically that DQ has.

The difference is that Ray knows where the ball is going, and uses his speed to attack that spot before its there. He probably knows most offenses as well as the offensive players do.
Thats what DQ is lacking in comparison to guys like Lewis and Urlacher.
Its not a physical problem, at least IMO its all about the film study and instincts.
Posted By: Damanshot Re: Line Backer debate - 08/25/11 08:26 PM
Quote:

Quote:

BUT does he have Ray's 'Killer' instincts?




No and thats the problem. Ray Lewis has the same type of strengths and weakness physically that DQ has.

The difference is that Ray knows where the ball is going, and uses his speed to attack that spot before its there. He probably knows most offenses as well as the offensive players do.
Thats what DQ is lacking in comparison to guys like Lewis and Urlacher.
Its not a physical problem, at least IMO its all about the film study and instincts.




That's also what I"m referring to when I said that it's not size.. it's other things.

I wonder however, this will be DQ's first year in this D.. He's never really been free to roam like Lewis has been most of his career. So you have to ask, is it that he doesn't have the skills, or is it that he's never been exposed to this so he can SHOW those skills? I really don't have an answer for that.

I'm hoping we find out this year.
Posted By: jfanent Re: Line Backer debate - 08/25/11 08:39 PM
Quote:

Quote:

BUT does he have Ray's 'Killer' instincts?




are you referring to his ability to 'cut'?
or his ability to 'knife' through the blocking?




I'll take a stab at this......he'll be good any way you slice it.
Posted By: NickBrownsFan Re: Line Backer debate - 08/25/11 08:51 PM
Im not sure if they will both be LB's but yes I agree with 2 1st round picks next year I expect to see 2 rookies starting from the 2012t draft, perhaps more.
Posted By: no_logo_required Re: Line Backer debate - 08/25/11 09:08 PM
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

BUT does he have Ray's 'Killer' instincts?



are you referring to his ability to 'cut'?
or his ability to 'knife' through the blocking?



I'll take a stab at this......he'll be good any way you slice it.




He did use the lockout to sharpen his skills.
Posted By: DCDAWGFAN Re: Line Backer debate - 08/25/11 09:58 PM
I will just start by saying that I am NOT saying that DQ is going to be Ray Lewis... but, Ray Lewis wasn't 250 in his 5th season, according to what I could find he was 242.

But DQ has never had Ngata, Ed Reed, T Suggs, P Boulware, Rod Woodson, etc to play around him. I will grant you that Lewis makes people around him better and DQ has not shown that level yet but DQ has been in a system that doesn't suit him with marginal talent at best around him, he's starting on his 3rd defensive coordinator/system, and he missed almost all of the last 2 seasons.. I will stress again that even in a perfect world, DQ isn't Ray Lewis, but then who is?
Posted By: YTownBrownsFan Re: Line Backer debate - 08/26/11 02:36 AM
Quote:

Quote:

BUT does he have Ray's 'Killer' instincts?




No, I really don't think he does, nor have I seen him demonstrate any of Rays leadership ability.

But that's not what was discussed.. The discussion was about physical size and they are damn near identical.




And there are probably a thousand players out of football who never got a chance who have the same size ......
Posted By: Heldawg Re: Line Backer debate - 08/26/11 07:11 AM
Quote:

3 Manti Te'O 6-2, 255 Notre Dame JR




Just to point this out.

This guy is the best HS player to come out of Hawaii in the last 10 years. He's a stud now and will be a stud in the NFL. Size, speed, athleticism and smarts.

Full package.
Posted By: WSU Willie Re: Line Backer debate - 08/26/11 01:51 PM
Quote:

Quote:

j/c

I was talking last night with a good friend - and fellow Browns fan - and we were discussing DQ.

I commented that I thought DQ looks too small to be effective in the middle. Maybe that is because he WAS to small to be in the middle in the 3-4.

But now in the 4-3, he STILL looks/seems-to-play too small.

We agree that he has excellent speed and pursuit and when he gets to the ball, the carrier goes down.

I have high hopes for DQ in this defense...we NEED him to be a good LB.

I am curious what others think about DQ in the middle vs DQ on the outside. I'm no Xs & Os expert but I continue to beleive that he does not have enough caboose to play in the middle - even in the 4-3.

Opinions?




Does 1 inch in height and 10 lbs mean that much.. cause if they don't, then add that 1 inch and those 10 lbs and you have Ray Lewis..

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/People/Players/Roster/Ray_Lewis.aspx

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/roster/D'Qwell-Jackson/f8eefd84-1922-43d0-8735-d90d06f8311b

DQ has the size,, he has the speed... is he Ray Lewis,, I don't believe he is. But size isn't the reason that he's not Lewis.




I don't know...maybe that 10 pounds on a professional athlete does make a difference.

I would say that regardless of height and weight measurements reported by the teams, DQ looks to be considerably smaller than Lewis...and he plays smaller as well.

I'm not saying that size is the reason why DQ does not = Lewis. I agree with the poster above that there is a chasm of difference between the two that includes the players around them and the team and coaches/schemes they have been in throughout their careers.

I want DQ to be successful, I'm just wondering if MLB is his best spot.
Posted By: Damanshot Re: Line Backer debate - 08/26/11 01:58 PM
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BUT does he have Ray's 'Killer' instincts?




No, I really don't think he does, nor have I seen him demonstrate any of Rays leadership ability.

But that's not what was discussed.. The discussion was about physical size and they are damn near identical.




And there are probably a thousand players out of football who never got a chance who have the same size ......




Absolutly.. Size of the man isn't the key.. Important,, you bet, but all the size in the world don't mean squat if you ain't got it between the ears.

DQ is a smart kid.. DQ has the size (which was the question) but does he have the leadership skills, the killer instinct.. Does he have the ability to get the very best out of his teammates?

I really don't know.. I think we're going to find out this year.. NOTHING would make me happier than finding out that he has all those skills...
Posted By: FL_Dawg Re: Line Backer debate - 08/26/11 03:47 PM
DQ is the 'only' LBer I do not have questions about. Fujita is a heady player, but he is long in tooth and is slow for a 43 LBer.

Next years Draft thyme is without a doubt. LBer, Safety and RT.
Posted By: no_logo_required Re: Line Backer debate - 08/26/11 08:04 PM
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BUT does he have Ray's 'Killer' instincts?



are you referring to his ability to 'cut'?
or his ability to 'knife' through the blocking?



I'll take a stab at this......he'll be good any way you slice it.




He did use the lockout to sharpen his skills.





just because it fits so perfectly. apparently Ray Lewis now schools Raven rookie players on how to handle a knife fight:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdow...?urn=nfl-wp5901
Posted By: akronjoe Re: Line Backer debate - 08/31/11 01:23 PM
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Titus Brown, seems to be making a case for himself as the air parent to the MLB position and is the buzz of the town right now.

If he can be a factor there, should we maybe flirt with the possibility of moving DQ Jackson over to the WIL?

Is Brown one of our 3 best LBers?

To this point Gocong is still the mystery man of the LBing crew? Maiava we think can cover in the nickel and still is a valuable asset.

Brain Smith could be a keeper if he can continue to build off of last week. Certainly he needs to shine on ST’s.


Are we better off at LBer then we appeared to be on paper?





Titus looks impressive because we have such crappy lbers. Now with his high ankle sprain and GoCong in the Tub we get to see how little depth or talent we have. more dumpster diving ahead for herock.
Posted By: HotBYoungTurk Re: Line Backer debate - 08/31/11 01:59 PM
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Titus looks impressive because we have such crappy lbers.




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