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James Brewer would have been the other option, but the book is still out on both of these players, because neither are starting this year.
Brewer is also being groomed for LT.
I went into the draft wanting a WR and a OT in the third and fourth rounds... I was hoping for Carpenter in the third, but Brewer was my next choice. I didn't like Pinkston as a tackle (I said repeatedly he looked only like a guard at the senior bowl.) I didn't think we'd be drafting a guard, but it's a good thing we did from a standpoint of need and talent.
I liked that Brewer and Carpenter both had the ability to play either tackle position (as we still have no backup for Thomas) and I didn't think Hairston looked like he could really play RT to me, which is what I primarily wanted an OT for.
If we could go back and look at the draft form ... you would see that I had Brewer in the 4th and later Hariston on my wish list per round.
I don't think that the fact that they are both being asked to play the LT position (and Hariston worked on both sides in preseason) is any indication that they could not also play the RT position.
I'm not sure if either would have been much better then what we have right now, this year, but going forward I would feel much better knowing that we where at least grooming one for the future.
Anyway it's all water under the bridge now and we are going to have to some how get by with what we have at least in the short term.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/FL_Dawg/Logo5_1.gif)
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If you could tell me that we'll use Atlanta's pick (assuming it'll be in the mid 20's or so)
To grab a RT that we can just plug in, and be set with...
Thomas
Pinkston
Mack
Lauvao
Drafted RT
I'd be happy, (assuming Pink and Lauvao pan out, which I think they will.)
I just don't want McCoy to get destroyed this year, or his play to be diminished and we not know how good he really is because of one fricken position...(Or two if you count WR)
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I agree,
I would hope that this debate gets settled by no later then this next off season.
Obviously our success will depend on it.
You might find a gem at OT in the mid or later rounds, but when you almost need to project a starter at OT from a rookie, then I think that you need to look for blue chip talent there in the Draft if it's available.
Some times the best decisions in the Draft are the ones you don't make. I hope we get the RT that we are destine to have.
Last edited by FL_Dawg; 09/14/11 03:37 PM.
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The lack of building the Oline via the draft has come back to bite the Browns square in the butt.
Lets say the RIGHT SIDE of the o-line. We've ALL been complaining about that for years and years...
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I really get tired of guys making excuses for PROFESSIONAL football players. Most of these guys workout 365 days a year. Right Tackle in any offense is not a tough position to learn in a week or two, especially for Professionals.
Hey I bet it's alot harder than it looks to learn to power back step, throw your hands out in succession, and bench press a smaller faster guy toward the sideline for 2 and a half to 3 and a half seconds.
Besides these big offensive linemen have to bend their knees and hips to get low before the snap, if you don't get low you're off balance and get keistered ,( all that bending and standing takes alot out of a guy) it's not like you could just bearhug throw the guy when he beats you inside and get a holding penalty, you don't want to stop him from pummelling your quarterback, because you'd add to the penalty count.
You can't just stand up quick and shove, This isn't SUMO wrestling, these guys have to do it with Pads on.
Now to get serious for a moment, The longer they have working together so that they know how the guy who lines up beside them is going to maneuver, the better they will be able to overcome.
This offensive line did have one good series that ended with the Moore Td,
Oh and back to joking jestering...
DON'T TELL ME ABOUT A NEW OFFENSE! This is the same offense since 2009 because this one went 6 drives with no points, I've seen that for years, years and years , since 2006 mostly , cept for a few games in 07'
New offense ! blah! 
Every year its called the west coast offense, ( every year since 99)
Every year its supposed to be bran new, New coordinator, new HC, new gimmick , but always called the west coast offense
Every year it looks pathetic in the 2 minute drills and doesn't stretch the field. oh and if they throw to a wideout, the defender knows where the ball is going to be and is waiting to intercept it,
The dump off to the runningback when the rb is 6-10 yds behind the line of scrimmage, litterally where he stood in the shotgun b4 the snap... the qb and the Ol and the defense have moved negative 14 yds so you complete a pass behind the line of scrimmage.
I've seen that since Charlie Frye year #1, so what is the new offense?
Ehh! They'll get em next week! Go Browns!
Beleiveland! haha
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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if you say 2nd rounder instead of 1st rounder, then I'll happily agree (I think there are a lot of 1st round grade WRs and LBs coming out this year and would really like to grab one of each with our first 2 picks)
#gmstrong
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The lack of building the Oline via the draft has come back to bite the Browns square in the butt.
Lets say the RIGHT SIDE of the o-line. We've ALL been complaining about that for years and years...
It SHOULD have been addressed the first offseason after losing Ryan Tucker, who is BY FAR the best RT we've seen in this town during my lifetime.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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The lack of building the Oline via the draft has come back to bite the Browns square in the butt.
Lets say the RIGHT SIDE of the o-line. We've ALL been complaining about that for years and years...
It SHOULD have been addressed the first offseason after losing Ryan Tucker, who is BY FAR the best RT we've seen in this town during my lifetime.
Cody Risen wasn't bad, but I have to agree, that Tucker was the best I've seen there and we both have probably seen our share.
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at this point I'm sceptical about the ability of both Vallos and Greco. There was a little hype on the Greco pick-up in the beginning, but now?
Neither were able to secure a starting spot at the LG position. Maybe they just want Pinkston to develop?
The FO even stated they were hot on Cousins trail even before Steiny went down. Then, Heck went after Hicks.
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if you say 2nd rounder instead of 1st rounder, then I'll happily agree (I think there are a lot of 1st round grade WRs and LBs coming out this year and would really like to grab one of each with our first 2 picks)
It's all dependent on the value vs. the player.
If the best RT in the draft isn't supposed to go until 24th overall, do you really want to skip him for say maybe the 3rd best WR? 2nd best LB?
And then you get to drop off to the next player, or player after him... etc...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I agree that it'll be based on value and yes, the 3rd best WR or 2nd best LB could very well be better than the RT in this particular draft (depends on which juniors come out).
and i prefer building inside-out, but the biggest potential talent spots in this draft are WR and LB and I would prefer we don't miss out (as both are positions of need but it will depend on where in the draft we land and how everything plays out, of course)
#gmstrong
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I agree that it'll be based on value and yes, the 3rd best WR or 2nd best LB could very well be better than the RT in this particular draft (depends on which juniors come out).
and i prefer building inside-out, but the biggest potential talent spots in this draft are WR and LB and I would prefer we don't miss out (as both are positions of need but it will depend on where in the draft we land and how everything plays out, of course)
I'm not disagreeing with that. We look to have a need a LB and perhaps even WR.
I'm still not certain that we will not be taking a QB with our overall #1.
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I agree that it'll be based on value and yes, the 3rd best WR or 2nd best LB could very well be better than the RT in this particular draft (depends on which juniors come out).
and i prefer building inside-out, but the biggest potential talent spots in this draft are WR and LB and I would prefer we don't miss out (as both are positions of need but it will depend on where in the draft we land and how everything plays out, of course)
I'm not disagreeing with that. We look to have a need a LB and perhaps even WR.
I'm still not certain that we will not be taking a QB with our overall #1.
If it's not THE #1, and THE Guy, then I really don't have any interest in any 1st round QB...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Neglect? Really? He looks at his roster and has an above AVG to great LT, LG and C who get a lot of money and cap room already...what did you expect? a 1st round RG or RT? 3rd to 5th round is where the value for those positions is...Heckert absolutely did NOT neglect the OL...he has (in PHI) and will always pick an OL in mid-late rounds for depth and development and that's the right thing to do...but looking at the roster he inherited OL really was down on his need list
..and Lauvao and Pinkston were pretty good picks....Lauvao was somewhat a need pick and went off the board where he was supposed to go, maybe even 15-30 picks earlier...Pinkston otoh, who was a very similar propsect was GREAT value...he fell thanks to a very strong draft class...very aware trade up and pick, loved it....and it's paying off already
DJ...Heckert did not draft Thomas, Steinbach or Mack..he inherited the start of a potentially great offensive line. I stand by what I said, Heckert has made a minimal investment in the offensive line.
Heckert spent a late 3rd pick on Lauvao last year and a mid 5th round pick on Pinkston this year. Heckert made picks for depth and development that are now forced to start.
The offensive line depth that was added during Heckert's first two seasons could be questioned also. How good is the backup talent when the 5th round rookie you drafted this year, starts ahead of backups, Vallos and Greco?
It looks like Pinkston and Lauvao will get their development time on the field this season along with our waiver wire RT, most likely at the expense of McCoy, Hillis and the WRs.
The Browns offense is going to suffer until the Oline gets it together and operates as a unit. It might take a few games...it might take the entire season.
The last thing the Browns needed this year was to lose two starting offensive linemen...but we have and the entire offense and entire team will pay the price.
If Olin Cousins does not fill the Browns needs at RT, Heckert will be forced into investing in the offensive line in the draft or free agency. It is obvious that Pashos is used up and cannot be depended on.
Also, Heckert needs to learn from his experience with Pashos decline. Steinbach is 31 yrs old and just had a surgery to remove a bone chip in his back. Now is the time to think about his replacement if Pinkston, Vallos, Greco, Hicks or Cousins do not show the potential to become a suitable replacement for Stenie.
I don't know why, but it seems the Browns always have to learn their lessons the hard way. There will be no miracle performances from McCoy, Hillis or any of our WRs this season..they will only be as good as the Browns offensive line plays. If a team has a 1000 yd rusher or a top passing QB a top receiving WR, it's because they had an offensive line that blocked well enough to protect the QB and/or open holes for the RB.
Just for the heck of it, I went back and looked at the Green Bay Packers recent drafts. In 2010, the Packers drafted an OT in the 1st round. This year, in the 2011 draft, the Packers again drafted an OT in the 1st round.
If the Browns are ever going to develop a team that can compete in the AFC North and eventually win a Super Bowl, the front office must be willing to make the necessary invest in the offensive line..investment in the starters as well as investment in the backup talent.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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I agree with you Mac....Heckerts big stand was to say Pasho's was the guy......and most knew that wasn't a good bet.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Minus the Steinbach injury and the Yates retirement our OL could have looked like this:
LT: Thomas
LG: Steinbach, Pinkston
C: Mack, Yates
RG: Lauvao, Cousins
RT: Pashos, Hicks
that there ^ is a pretty solid unit
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If the Browns are ever going to develop a team that can compete in the AFC North and eventually win a Super Bowl, the front office must be willing to make the necessary invest in the offensive line..
The Chargers had the best offense in the NFL last year...
right tackle 6th round in his 6th year with the team...
right guard 3rd round in his 4th year with the team...
center 3rd round in his 8th year with the team...
left guard UDFA in his 8th year with the team...
left tackle 2nd round in his 5th year with the team...
You brought up the Packers...
right tackle 1st round in his second year with the team...
right guard 4th round in his 4th year with the team...
center 7th round pick in his 8th year with the team...
left guard 4th round in his 3rd year with the team....
left tackle 2nd round in his 12 year with the team...
Our OL goes like this...
right tackle (Pashos) 5th round 9th season in the NFL, 2nd with the team...
right guard 3rd round in his 2nd year... (looks better with Steinbach)
center 1st round in his 2nd year...
left guard 5th round in his 1st year...
left tackle 1st round in his 5th year...
The difference isn't investment as much as it is consistency. 4 of our starting OL are in their second year or less with the team which has a new system and essentially a new QB... These guys from the Chargers and Packers have played together, in the same system, with the same QB for years. I'm not saying we shouldn't try to bring in more talent but the thought that we need more first and second round draft picks on our OL to be good just isn't true.
yebat' Putin
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That's how I see it too.
You have to start some where building your OL with a group who can grow and play together for years. Obviously we still have some work to do, but we have made some investments there.
It's just 4/5th complete.
Do you folks remember what it was like before we drafted JT? or did we all forget?
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Shaffer
Steinbach
Fraley
Andruzzi
Tucker
If I have that right...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Actually between 3rd and 5th round is where you get your interior OL starters from as DC showed...there are max 1-2 interior OL drafted in the 1st each year, another couple in the 2nd...the majority of NFL starters are mid to late round picks....interior OL just do not have VALUE (I know, it's a concept almost no one seems to grasp around here)...so drafting a 3rd round G, who we drafted over our "supposed" franchise QB btw, IS a big investment...Pinkston would have been a 3rd or 4th rounder in any other draft, last years just was insanely deep, in fact he is a very similar prospect to Lauvao, and don't forget we traded UP to get him, investing 2 picks, meaning the FO really liked him...the OL just needs some more experience but they'll be fine...remember how Mack looked his first 6-8 games or so? Pretty bad...for that I think Pinkston, as Shurmur pointed out after watching the Bengals tape, had an outstanding 1st NFL start
Really, the only "neglect" was at RT and even that is debatable since both of his picks can play that position too...and now that we have 2 starters out the rest of the line looks worse too as they have to gel....really, OL is the least of my worries going forward, we have pretty much 4/5 of our line signed through 2014 and probably beyond...that's Heckert's work too there: re-signing Thomas and drafting the future Gs...we're watching the START of them playing together for the next 3 seasons
I think right now the OL serves as scapegoat for Colt's play more than anything, he who now has 3 straight bad starts against PIT, BAL and CIN...THAT'S what should worry fans
#gmstrong
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Many, if not most ,interior linemen can be drafted in rounnds 5 to 7 with the occasional UDFA thrown in for good measure. Tackles , OTOH, are usually drafted higher as we all know. It seems that that lower an OL is drafted the longer it takes for them to develop. It may take a few years on the PS and riding the pine for those lower rounds to move up the depth charts. Finding and developing your own interior linemen seems to work very well for some of the better OL units. As DC pointed out continuity is very important. When the Giants were on their championship run a few years ago the starting OL they had in place had been the exact same unit for about 5 years. Having some older OL as starters is fine and dandy, but you better have those players on your bench that have been around a few years to step in once the older guys go out to pasture. Drafting a value/ project interior OL every few years seems to work for teams that have consistent line play. Draft and develop your own. 
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dj...the more you go down this avenue...the more respect you lose as to your knowledge of football.
You are suggesting a good QB can overcome the lack of talent on the Oline...that just is not the case at the NFL level. Just look back at the teams winning the Super Bowl as an example of what works at the NFL level.
Did the Packers have an outstanding Oline last season?
If a QB does not have the time to throw, he is not going to look very good throwing the ball. If the Oline does not open holes, the ground game is not going perform well, even if a team has a RB like Hillis.
You talk to any QB or RB from the college level to the Pros and they will tell you they are only as good as their OLine. Actually, most High School QBs and RBs would say the same thing.
It is the Oline that makes the offense work...PERIOD !
I fully understand the unimaginable trail of events that contributed to the present situation.
...Steinbach going down
...Yates retirement
...Pashos ankle injury, again
But instead of the Browns falling back on their "depth" to fill in for the guys who went down, the Browns scour the waiver wire to see which linemen are available.
That is a dead give away that a franchise has no plan when it comes to the Oline. In the Browns case, the jury is still out on Heckert's commitment to building the Oline via the draft. The Browns have had 4 second picks in the last two years and not one of those picks was for the Oline.
Now the Browns will find out if they have an Oline coach worth keeping. Lord knows, he has not developed any of our backups to step up and fill in.
DJ...it would not matter if the Browns had Joe Friggin Montana lined up behind this Oline, he would not look any different than McCoy. The Browns Oline was a mess last week and now we will find out how hard they worked this week.
My focus is on George Warhop, the Oline coach. If the Browns offense does well, it will be because the Oline play improved.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Agree that the OLine is where it al begins . . .or stops before it can get started. Saw the latter a bunch in the second half in week1. Pashos cannot help us on the bench. Durability is becoming important. Hope they develop and can be coached up by our line coach. But it needs to be lots better. I am not interested in starting a bunch of castoffs, utility players who can play a number of positions adequately at best. Need it for emergency backups, but man, RT is a mess. Hope for the best. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Behind "this" OL, huh? All Pro LT, PBowl C, rookie LG who had a good game, 2nd year 3rd round RG who had a decent game....you might want to look at the Steelers OL, or ANY OL around...no OL will look good if the D brings in 6+ to rush on every 2nd and 3rd down...it's the QB's job to stop them doing it and McCoy wasn't capable
Also, we're at plan C at RT because Steinbach went down too...if Steiny could play and Pashos didn't go down at the last second (timing had as much to do with this as anything) we would have brought in Hicks earlier and let him play his natural G position, sliding Pinkston or Lauvao out to RT.....why we don't do it now? Well, because of timing....both Pinkston and Lauvao have just settled in nicely at G now, if we move 1 of them over we would have 2 unknowns in our OL...now we have "just" 1 at RT...if we would have fallen back to our "depth", we probably would have to move 3/5 of the OL around as Greco is a RG only, meaning Lauvao would have to be moved to LG and Pinkston to RT...the upside long term is better (on paper) with Hicks at LG and Pinkston at RT but the Coaches probably play it safe for now with the OL as 4/5 are absolutely playing fine where they're at...probably giving the vets some more time at RT to gel with the rest...it's not perfect, but I understand it....take any starting OL in the NFL and take away 2vet starters...I'm pretty sure 90% would have looked far worse than ours...we actually HAVE depth there, believe it or not...take away Rubin and Mitchell on the DL and watch them play, THAT'S no depth
McCoy's INT at the end was a pefect example of what's wrong with him, just a 3 men rush, plenty of time..then, instead of stepping INTO the pocket he rushes outside the tackle, CREATING pressure on his own, the OTs job is to keep the DE outside, creating a POCKET, McCoy won't step in though as he then wouldn't simply see anything with Mack being in front of him...so, he runs to the sideline so he can see the field...but then the DE will go for him...that happens very very often with Colt and it's absolutely NOT the OTs fault, it's Colt creating his own pressure because he's unable or not willing to step INTO the pocket, choosing to run outside of it
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Really, the only "neglect" was at RT and even that is debatable since both of his picks can play that position too..
I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. I don't think either of them can play RT at a quality NFL level.
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Did the Packers have an outstanding Oline last season?
Last year the Packers gave up 38 sacks, which was tied for 19th place (fewer being higher,) so worse than average. On the ground, they averaged 3.8 yards per carry, tying them for 25th with 3 other teams. Only 4 teams had lower averages per rush.
I wouldn't say they had a particularly good OL last year. That's why they drafted another LT in the first round. It was actually considered their weakness... much as OL has been considered the Steelers' weakness for years.
All stats from ESPN.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/sort/yardsPerRushAttempt/year/2010
Last edited by CleveSteve; 09/16/11 08:51 AM.
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Just re-watched the highlights of that game...on that 4th&8 from midfield, the Mack-pass, it was Mack himself who gave up the sack..rather pathetically at that too as it was a 4men rush...Pinkston had his man, Mack was the free OL and opted to give Pinkston inside help...when the DT re-tried it inside, he gave his man to Mack and giving inside help on Thomas...Pinkston was perfect on that play, as was Lauvao, who dominated his opponent without giving up an inch...Hicks struggled a bit at RT but he was ok too...Mack was responsible for the sack...but he probably thought the ball was long gone as Colt did have 3+ seconds...as I keep saying, Mack has ways to go at pass blocking, he's a beast at run blocking but still gets beat too often on pass plays...somewhat a misfit in a WCO to be honest, it's not his fault, he was drafted by Mangini for a run-oriented, mauling O
#gmstrong
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at this point I'm sceptical about the ability of both Vallos and Greco. There was a little hype on the Greco pick-up in the beginning, but now?
Neither were able to secure a starting spot at the LG position. Maybe they just want Pinkston to develop?
The FO even stated they were hot on Cousins trail even before Steiny went down. Then, Heck went after Hicks.
There was a REASON there was little talk about those marginal signings and we were forced to go the rookie route. they were expendable for the teams they were on. we were dumpster diving. and chose not to spend any cap on any real olineman.
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Legend
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Legend
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spend any real cap on OL? you mean like Thomas, Mack, Steinbach?
up to this point, you had said we were fools for drafting Phil Taylor instead of Carimi. I disagree, but I can at least see a point that we missed a chance at a RT there.
what FA OT did you think we were going to sign? (and just so this isn't baiting on McKinnie - we have already discussed ad nauseum how he was considered expendable for Minny because he was 400lbs. and how he wanted to go to a contending team and the fact that Baltimore is the 'Hurricane NFL Team' helped push him there even more)
#gmstrong
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Dawg Talker
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I'm on the Pashos bandwagon and believe he is an above average RT in the league. The FO took a chance on him hoping that his past injury history was just that, history.
Seriously. Who was available this off season that is better than Pashos?
Is Carimi better than Pashos at this point?
Are there any OL available now or even in the off season that are better than Cousins and Hicks?
Frankly, that's debatable too.
You could make the case that the FO should have acted sooner like in the draft or the shortened off season. But even then how were they to know about the injuries and the retirement? And the question still remains if they would have been any better than what we have now.
It's just interesting to note that neither Greco nor Vallos were promoted from within. That is very telling. If Yates and Steinbach were still with the team both Vallos and Greco may have been cut. Their days may be numbered anyway especially If/when Steinbach returns and Pashos's heir apparent is drafted
Drafting a RT in the first round isn't necessary either.Ryan Tucker was a 4th rounder. Going into next year a RT might be a lesser priority anyway. How many 4th and 5th round picks do we have next year? Maybe Heckert can trade one of our 5ths to move up in the 4th to get a RT?
PS
both Hicks and Cousins have now had a full week of practice reps with their new team mates. Let's wait and see how that turns out before we get too excited.
Last edited by Line Judge; 09/17/11 08:27 AM.
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
Did the Packers have an outstanding Oline last season?
Last year the Packers gave up 38 sacks, which was tied for 19th place (fewer being higher,) so worse than average. On the ground, they averaged 3.8 yards per carry, tying them for 25th with 3 other teams. Only 4 teams had lower averages per rush.
I wouldn't say they had a particularly good OL last year. That's why they drafted another LT in the first round. It was actually considered their weakness... much as OL has been considered the Steelers' weakness for years.
cleve...the point I was making was the Packers very well could have said, hey, we won 11 game in 2009 and we won the Super Bowl last season...nothing wrong with GB Oline...and they could have used those draft picks on other positions...BUT THEY DID NOT.
After winning 11 games in 2009, the Packers drafted Oline in the first round of the 2010 draft and after winning the Super Bowl, the Packers could have drafted any position but Oline in the 2011 draft, but they didn't...they drafted Oline again.
The Packers realize, if they are going to continue winning, they must have the best possible Oline they can put on the field...thus Oline is a high priority for the Packer franchise...in short...the Packers "get it".
Not only do the Packers emphasis their Oline in the draft, even their backups are a product of the Green Bay focus on developing their rather than relying on other teams cast offs to fill in when someone goes down.
The Browns started to develop a program of building their Oline similar to the Packers when they drafted Thomas in 2007 and Mack in 2009, but the Browns, since Heckert has become GM, have made minimal investment in the OLine.
In the last two drafts the Browns have had 4 second round picks but could not bring themselves to invest one of those picks in a RT. Now, with Pashos on the shelf again and Steinbach beginning to show the wear and tear of his 9 yrs in the NFL, the Browns must either develop someone already on the roster to fill the RT spot and possibly the LG spot or draft someone fill those needs.
The Browns lost to the Bengals for many reasons and it was just another kick in the crotch for Browns fans. There is enough blame to go around from the players to the coaching staff. It was a team loss !
I do understand that Holmgren and Heckert cannot rebuild the entire offense and defense in two seasons and this year we have a rookie HC who coached like a rookie HC in his first game.
But the Browns will not win, until all 5 Olinemen can constantly complete their assignments well enough to give their QB time pass the football and well enough to open holes for our RBs, . You cannot have your QB running for his friggin life and expect him to throw pinpoint passes.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
After winning 11 games in 2009, the Packers drafted Oline in the first round of the 2010 draft and after winning the Super Bowl, the Packers could have drafted any position but Oline in the 2011 draft, but they didn't...they drafted Oline again.
The Packers realize, if they are going to continue winning, they must have the best possible Oline they can put on the field...thus Oline is a high priority for the Packer franchise...in short...the Packers "get it".
The Packers also realize that they have some very good play makers at positions all over the field on both sides of the ball. They also realize that they have superior depth at almost every position as well which was evidenced by the fact that it was their depth that won the Super Bowl. That's not to discount their starters, but the backups came in a played supurb in that game and without that they never would have won.
So to draft OL in the first round does not simply mean that they "get it". It also means that they have the luxury to do that since they are not devoid of play makers at key positions.
The Browns are in a very different set of circumstances.
I, as much as anyone, believe that the game is won in the trenches. But where you and I might differ is that I don't believe it takes 1st round draft picks all along the OL to have a dominant OL. As has been said, it's the middle round where these players can be found and I think Heckert has found a couple of them there in Lavuao and Pinkston. Now, if only our OL could get some serious playing time together like the best lines do, (i.e. a couple of years), then we can have a consistently great OL too.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Legend
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Mac, I see what you mean, and the Packers have been successful and still want to invest a lot in their oline. But maybethe Packers just want to draft the guy they think is the best available? They are a stacked team. Remember who they drafted in the first round last time we went OL in the first? I don't think they felt the need to bolster their receiving corp when Cobb was there in the second... They already had driver, Jennings, Nelson, jones, and Finley. I think they just said "this is the best guy available now, so we'll take him." Both Bulaga and Sherrod were considered high "value" picks when they were drafted. Would they have drafted Gilbert or Carpenter if Seattle had taken Sherrod instead? Maybe, but I don't think so. I think enough years of drafting the best guy available for the system you're in will make you a good team. Will we ever have enough years in a row of the same system to get there? I don't know.
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Legend
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Legend
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Yeah, what he said 
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All Pro
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All Pro
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The Browns could have had their RT of the future 3 years ago but they took Briana Robiskie.
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
The Browns could have had their RT of the future 3 years ago but they took Briana Robiskie.
who would that have been?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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2nd String
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2nd String
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I think enough years of drafting the best guy available for the system you're in will make you a good team. Will we ever have enough years in a row of the same system to get there? I don't know.
this.
the only exception I could add is having the same person running the draft as well. (Mangini and Crennel ran pretty much the same system)
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All Pro
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All Pro
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Phil Loadholt out of Oklahoma
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2nd String
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2nd String
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 284 |
Quote:
Quote:
The Browns could have had their RT of the future 3 years ago but they took Briana Robiskie.
who would that have been?
Im guessing they are referring to Phil Loadholdt. I'm not even as mad about the Robiskie pick as I am about the Veikune pick (bc i think Mangini tried to outsmart himself, or was trying to figure out who to draft before the Pats did, or whatever reason he actually thought that kid would pan out) but that's all in the past with a regime, offensive and defensive systems that are gone.
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