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So Atlanta is 1-2 right now and it got me thinking...
What if Atlanta were to have the wheels come of and end up at say 2-14, giving us the number one pick next year. And what if we somehow scrape out 9-7... Would You draft Luck? Which way would you go.
I'm torn. I wouldn't want the QB controversy but how do you pass on Luck? A stud right tackle, a star WR or a beast at LB all being our bigger needs.
I know it's highly unlikely, but at least we can dream. Thoughts?
Last edited by Referee 3; 09/26/11 08:06 AM.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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Phil started this exact same thread last week only Phil, in his eternal optimism, had US earning the #1 spot.
yebat' Putin
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let someone trade the farm for him...
Andrew Luck right now...if that were the case, i think would be more valuable to us as trade bait than anything else. You know what we could get for him?
Seattle, San Fran (especially with their coach), Indy, Washington (maybe? i think Sexy Rexy will level off back to typical Rexy), Denver (i know another 1st rounder? well Fox didnt pick any of em), KC, and Miami all have pretty terrible QBs...you could leverage each team against each other and drive the price so far skyward that we could do unbelieveable things.
thats what i would do...
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Don't count us out of the Luck sweepstakes. If I had to guess right now, I'd say we'll be in the bottom of the top 10 ... but I would be somewhat surprised if Seneca Wallace isn't at the helm for at least two games this year.
I'm all for enjoying the fact that we're 2-1, but let's not forget that our two wins have come against bad teams that don't have a win between them. It's very rare to get a W with the kind of offense we put out there today. We stole one.
And, yes, I take Luck. No question.
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I would take Luck in a heartbeat.
Worst case scenario is that you have 2 really top quality QBs, with one becoming a major trade piece. You could also have a quality backup in case what happened to Manning happens to us. We would also be further protected if McCoy busts out. Like it or not, that is still a very real possibility.
I don't see this team and front office passing up a guy who is a franchise type QB. If they feel that he is a franchise QB, we'll take him no matter what else we have at the position.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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but what about when Colt throws his first int and everyone boos and calls for Luck...
I would want nothing to do with having 2 QBs that are surefire starters on my roster again...After the Quinn/DA debacle, and whats going on in Denver right now...no way. I wouldnt do that to my QB or team.
Colt is our starter for the forseeable future, and if as oldcold says we go 9-7, weve got our QB and things will only improve with him...leverage with other teams that need him and will give up a lot for him.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Already been discussed in Tailgate. Thread Here And like I said there. You take Andrew Luck and don't look back. Colt looks like a backup QB to me, but at his best he's a Matt Hasselbeck "game manager" type of starter. He'll never be an elite "franchise" QB in the NFL. Andrew Luck is the best QB prospect to come out since....I don't even know, probably John Elway. You do not pass on John Elway just because you have a maybe Matt Hasselbeck. This is a no brainer. If we don't "earn" the #1 pick through our own record or Atlanta's I'd have 0 problem trading up to get Luck.
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Quote:
Andrew Luck is the best QB prospect to come out since....I don't even know, probably John Elway.
...or Peyton Manning.
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You take Andrew Luck and don't look back.
It would be Chapter 13 in "Growing up Colt"
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Quote:
Quote:
Andrew Luck is the best QB prospect to come out since....I don't even know, probably John Elway.
...or Peyton Manning.
Or JaMarcus Russell 
Joe Thomas #73
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Quote:
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Andrew Luck is the best QB prospect to come out since....I don't even know, probably John Elway.
...or Peyton Manning.
Eh, no I think Luck is a better college prospect than Manning was. It's debatable though.
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so if the hypothetical doesn't work and one or more teams are in the top position what do you do then?
Is there another QB not named Luck that would be worth that investment?
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Take him and don't look back. Then receivers to replace a few of ours. Not sure Colt is the cure, though yesterday was a real treat/heartstopper. Luck and no regrets. QUestions: When do you get another shot at this caliber? And what would it cost down the road if somebody else owns him ITO picks, cash, trades? Not sure how much more "reasonable" a Luck is with new rules in place, but moreso now than pre-lockout.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Don't count us out of the Luck sweepstakes. If I had to guess right now, W'd say we'll be in the bottom of the top 10 ... but I would be somewhat surprised if Seneca Wallace isn't at the helm for at least two games this year.
I'm all for enjoying the fact that we're 2-1, but let's not forget that our two wins have come against bad teams that don't have a win between them. It's very rare to get a W with the kind of offense we put out there today. We stole one.
And, yes, I take Luck. No question.
I can't believe I'm NOT the most pessimistic poster in a thread 
Look, MIA...in that spot yesterday, was a pretty tough matchup...our D came up BIG and won that game for us...and not only with the final stop...the numerous stops and RZ stops before...most will give the Offense credit for the W but with even an AVG or just decent D performance we'd be down 2+ score before that last drive
That said, while we didn't really "deserve" the W, we still won somehow...and I might add that this "somehow" was a pretty nice drive capped with a very accurate EZ throw...MIA gave Colt the underneath, typical not to lose style...why they did that after owning Colt with more agressive play calling before is probably 1 of the reasons Sparano will get fired soon, but that's not our problem...Colt took it and then saved his best "throw" (I know it was an ugly wobbler but the accuracy and timing was remarkable) for last....he and the Offense were opportunistic...I completely agree that we'd have lost to most AVG teams and probably even the Ohins 8 out of 10 times but hey I really don't care at this point...
I understand we still looked awful BUT I saw improvement, esp. on D but also on Offense...the run worked better than before and that playing the toughest front 7 to date..that's improvement and Colt, while looking completely overwhelmed and uncomfortable in the pocket most of the game...at least STAYED in the pocket most of the time...he won't get better there if he doesn't start playing there and as ugly as it was he finally at least TRIED to do what he's supposed to do and what probably Shurmur urged him to do...STAY IN THE POCKET and be a real NFL QB...I still think it's a necessary step back short term to get better long term...will pocket-Colt outperform joystick-Colt? That remains to be seen but he's trying and I haven't seen this committment before...if he runs around and plays "his way" he's just a backup QB that won't last 5 consecutive games with all the hits he's gonna take running outside the tackles
There's lots of negatives to trash Colt for in that game but I won't go there righ now because it wouldn't be fair...I criticized him for still playing CFB QB style and will do so going forward but if he committs to be a real QB I'm willing to give him more leeway as it's completely NEW to him...but it's necessar to even have a shot at taking the next step...I'm still critical that he can do it but gotta give him props for taking coaching, self-criticism and tenacity...he might be 1 of those longshot guys who comes through, who knows. I'm looking forward to assess his game from the pocket...before that he was a circus QB with no real hope...now there's at least the chance of hope
I still can't believe not being the most negative poster for once....feels good to give out hope for a change 
Oh, I forgot...I'd still take Luck and not look back in that scenario...as much as Colt might improve I don't think he'll be "no brainer" material at years end just yet..draft Luck, play Colt if he has deserved more looks...thanks to the new CBA you can take shots at QBs high now without franchise money committment, so just go BPA, and if that's Luck, Luck it is
#gmstrong
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but let's not forget that our two wins have come against bad teams that don't have a win between them.
Those two teams have lost 6 games, two of them to the Browns.... then the Dolphins lost to the Patriots after playing right with them into the 4th quarter, the Texans after playing right with them into the 4th quarter and the Colts just took the Steelers to the final 8 seconds using Painter as their QB in the second half...
yebat' Putin
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I would want nothing to do with having 2 QBs that are surefire starters on my roster again...After the Quinn/DA debacle, and whats going on in Denver right now...no way. I wouldnt do that to my QB or team.
When did we have "surefire" starters?  Maybe surefire for the Browns, but not for anyone else.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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You are going to get varied opinions on this one.. To take Luck or Not is the question.
If you look around the league as it sits right now (casting aside players that are injured) How many QB's in the league that were drafted either 1st, 2nd or 3rd overall are winning and doing well? (again, including Manning)
You have Payton Manning, Eli Manning and That's it. Bradford had a good year last year but isn't all that and a bag of chips this year.
Who else was drafted in the top three that is playing and playing well?
The answer to that might tell you what the odds are for success with a 1st overall QB pick.
Somebody is going to give you a boat load of picks for Luck.... More so than ever before because the cap is in place for Rookies... No HUGE money to pay out....
Heckert has been drafting well, so ya gotta think about what he may be able to do with 3 or 4 extra high picks this year and next?
Could he fix everything else that's wrong with this team.. LBer's, RT, one more DE, WR or maybe even another DB.
I think you gotta weigh that against the risk of taking Luck in the #1 spot..
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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neither atlanta nor cleveland is going to win 2 or less games, which will likely be required to draft Luck.
so, let us enjoy the fact that the Browns have a great shot at 3-1 (Britt injured, CJ still finding his way into shape. they have a good defense, but they would be just as big of a 3-1 surprise as the Browns)
#gmstrong
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Quote:
You have Payton Manning, Eli Manning and That's it. Bradford had a good year last year but isn't all that and a bag of chips this year.
Who else was drafted in the top three that is playing and playing well?
Rivers is pretty good, Stafford is playing well and getting better every week, Michael Vick is playing pretty well when not hurt, Matt Ryan was 3rd overall and he's pretty good, Ben Roethlisberger was 11th overall pick and he's won 2 super bowls, Mark Sanchez was 5th overall....
So does it have to be a top 3 pick? No, but there is certainly some evidence that top 10ish QBs do better than other QBs...
All that said, I doubt either us or Atlanta are in position to draft him outright and I'm not in favor of giving anything up to move up.
yebat' Putin
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We could take Luck, at probably the cost of both #1s and likely a #2.
OR, we could get a top-10 (NFL Talent) DE, a very good LB, plus a solid RT and WR. I'll go with that.
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Quote:
We could take Luck, at probably the cost of both #1s and likely a #2.
OR, we could get a top-10 (NFL Talent) DE, a very good LB, plus a solid RT and WR. I'll go with that.
That's my thinking... I also think that if we did fall into that spot we could trade it and have 2 number 1s this year, a couple number 2s, another 1 next year and probably more...
I know it's early but look at the early impressions of Taylor, Sheard and Little and imagine 4 first round picks in the next two years and 3 or 4 second round picks... and what we could look like in a couple years... 
yebat' Putin
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I know this is a hypothetical situation (Atlanta going 2-14) but let's be real here, there's no freaking way they don't win at least 8-9 games. So I can't really get to a place to talk about what we would do if the Falcons imploded and we got the #1 overall draft slot.
Even if they finish 6-10 and we are 7-9/8-8 (some good, some bad games by Colt) I wouldn't think we'd have enough to move up to take Luck and I'm not sure I'd want to anyway. Give me a stud RT, two LBs and another WR.
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We could take Luck, at probably the cost of both #1s and likely a #2.
OR, we could get a top-10 (NFL Talent) DE, a very good LB, plus a solid RT and WR. I'll go with that.
I don't. Not in the NFL today. It's 110% a QB league. You have a franchise QB and you're making the playoffs. You don't have a franchise QB and you have to have an elite OLine AND elite RB AND an elite D AND have some good luck with injuries.
I'd trade the entire '86 Bears D for a franchise QB. The real question is, is Luck truly a franchise QB of that caliber? Meaning top 5-10 QB in the whole NFL. If he is, you trade the farm and take him regardless of the cost. If he's not then pass and keep the farm and continue to build.
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Quote:
I'd trade the entire '86 Bears D for a franchise QB. The real question is, is Luck truly a franchise QB of that caliber? Meaning top 5-10 QB in the whole NFL. If he is, you trade the farm and take him regardless of the cost. If he's not then pass and keep the farm and continue to build.
I'm not bagging on your comment BUT.... 
#1 You don't know if Luck is that franchise guy. It's not a simple question of yes or no....nobody knows and won't know until he plays a few seasons in the NFL.
#2 Even if you could know if he was a franchise QB, nobody would trade out of the #1 overall spot in that situation (unless they already had a top 5 franchise QB). And nobody will be sitting #1 overall with a franchise QB already on their roster. Like you said, if you have one....you make the playoffs or are in contention, not 2-14 with the #1 pick.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Quote:
Quote:
I'd trade the entire '86 Bears D for a franchise QB. The real question is, is Luck truly a franchise QB of that caliber? Meaning top 5-10 QB in the whole NFL. If he is, you trade the farm and take him regardless of the cost. If he's not then pass and keep the farm and continue to build.
I'm not bagging on your comment BUT....
#1 You don't know if Luck is that franchise guy. It's not a simple question of yes or no....nobody knows and won't know until he plays a few seasons in the NFL.
#2 Even if you could know if he was a franchise QB, nobody would trade out of the #1 overall spot in that situation (unless they already had a top 5 franchise QB). And nobody will be sitting #1 overall with a franchise QB already on their roster. Like you said, if you have one....you make the playoffs or are in contention, not 2-14 with the #1 pick.
Unless your top 5 QB had a season ending injury before the season started. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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touche And in that case, Indy probably picks Luck for the future. If they can't get Luck to go along with that plan, they trade out for the highest bidder. IMO, we aren't good enough to give up our 2012 and 2013 drafts for a coinflip QB prospect. We have two first and fourth rounders, lets draft BPA with our six picks in the first four rounds and go from there. Heck, we could also find a QB with one of our two first rounders if Colt continues to play erratic ball. I've already signed off that Luck won't be in a Browns uniform. And I don't really care. I want a stronger O-line, new LBs and another Haden. We can sign a WR in the offseason. Done.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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If I'm Luck and I have a chance to join the worst team in the NFL as the #1 pick, the chance that it happened to be Indy would be delightful, being that you know it's a fluke, and you get to tutor behind a sure HoF QB in Manning for a couple years. Similar to Rodgers in GB.
A lot less pressure to come in and "right the ship" so to speak, as a sure B/U to Manning.
To me, that would be the ideal situation, if I'm a #1 draft pick.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Quote:
The real question is, is Luck truly a franchise QB of that caliber? Meaning top 5-10 QB in the whole NFL. If he is, you trade the farm and take him regardless of the cost. If he's not then pass and keep the farm and continue to build.
Obviously there is no crystal ball that let's you know that. If there was a guarantee I think all but a handful of teams would be willing to trade whatever they needed in order to get him but there is always the risk that he is not. The scout grading they showed the other night rate him at a 99, which is almost perfection by draft standards and it's higher than Newton, higher than Stafford, even higher than Manning when he came out... so by their measure, he is as close to a sure thing at QB as you can get.
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
Quote:
You have Payton Manning, Eli Manning and That's it. Bradford had a good year last year but isn't all that and a bag of chips this year.
Who else was drafted in the top three that is playing and playing well?
Rivers is pretty good, Stafford is playing well and getting better every week, Michael Vick is playing pretty well when not hurt, Matt Ryan was 3rd overall and he's pretty good, Ben Roethlisberger was 11th overall pick and he's won 2 super bowls, Mark Sanchez was 5th overall....
So does it have to be a top 3 pick? No, but there is certainly some evidence that top 10ish QBs do better than other QBs...
All that said, I doubt either us or Atlanta are in position to draft him outright and I'm not in favor of giving anything up to move up.
Top ten,, sure, that increases the sample size,,, But when you are talking about taking a QB at #1,,, you gotta wonder.. is it worth it.
Having said that, this year is a year where we will find out if Colt McCoy is real.. If the FO and Coaches come away thinking he is,, then you can bet we won't take Luck if we end up in a position to do so.
Of course, if we are in that position, the answer is, Colt isn't good enough...LOL
that's just a guess of course.. We could get it with Atlantas pick! We would win 12 games and be heading to the playoffs and if Atlanta is the worst in the league we could still end up with the #1 pick.. That would be a hoot...
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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We could get it with Atlantas pick! We would win 12 games and be heading to the playoffs and if Atlanta is the worst in the league we could still end up with the #1 pick.. That would be a hoot...
And if that happens, then it means Colt played pretty darn good so you trade the pick and gash another team for all of their other picks.
yebat' Putin
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I'd just like to say that I've been rooting hard against Atlanta these first three games.
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Quote:
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We could get it with Atlantas pick! We would win 12 games and be heading to the playoffs and if Atlanta is the worst in the league we could still end up with the #1 pick.. That would be a hoot...
And if that happens, then it means Colt played pretty darn good so you trade the pick and gash another team for all of their other picks.
LOL Exactomundo! Is that not the perfect scenario?
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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All Pro
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I can't envision a realistic scenario where I don't take Andre Luck if he is on the board.
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Quote:
I can't envision a realistic scenario where I don't take Andre Luck if he is on the board.
I cannot imagine a scenario where he is on the board when we pick, period.
There are still FIVE teams without a single win... and none of those five are Cleveland or Atlanta, and four of those five (includes Indy) will absolutely be interested in Luck.
The only one I don't see being fully interested is St. Louis because they just paid a boatload for taking Bradford #1 overall.... the rest are completely in play.
I can see Indy, Miami, KC and Minny all trying to tank and go 0-16.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
I can't envision a realistic scenario where I don't take Andre Luck if he is on the board.
This thread is talking about a 13-3 team winning 2 games the next year...
Why are you stuck on realism?
IMO if Mike Vick doesn't get cuncussed week 2, ATL is 0-3 right now (assuming they lose to TB)
And when you're 0-3, the questions start, and it can tailspin from there...
Go ATL's Opponent!
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1 |
Quote:
I can see Indy, Miami, KC and Minny all trying to tank and go 0-16.
Really? After sepending the 12th pick on Ponder?
Unless they can shop him off for something reasonable, I don't think they can offord to take 2 QBs in a row...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,946 Likes: 763
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,946 Likes: 763 |
Ah, I was unaware they just took a QB. I just knew that they have McNabb and are going into the crapper in every 2nd half.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 Likes: 1 |
I wish there was a Draft Order calculator so I could keep tabs on who's pick is where every week...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
I don't think that takes them out of the running. They obviously can't be convinced Ponder is the answer already. His contract is not too big and if they do finish with the worst record they could probably sell him for a second.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,975 Likes: 355
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,975 Likes: 355 |
Cassel has a deal through 2014, with a total of $28 million in guarantees.
I also don't know that he is at fault for what's happening in KC. He's thrown more INT than TD so far this year .... but he's still completing 65% of his passes. His team lost to the 2 big surprise teams this year, Detroit and Buffalo, and the 3rd team they played is a pretty good San Diego team.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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